Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 20:00:10

Title: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 20:00:10
Evening all.  Some advice needed.

We recently purchased a w reg 2.5 elite saloon for the princely sum of £200.
It has since developed what I thought was a misfire, but it has been diagnosed as water getting into one of the pistons.

Local garages are pricing head gasket replacement as a no go(£600+).

Is there anyone on here who is capable of doing the job at a more modest price, or does someone have a good replacement engine that I could drop in.

I dont want to scrap her as she normally drives lovely, but as money is nearly non existant, that is looking like the only option.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.  Mark.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: Webby the Bear on 26 November 2013, 20:02:08
How've they diagnosed the head gasket having failed? I.e. have they done a leak down or block tester?

How have they found water in the pistons? Or have they found water in the plug wells? :)
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: tunnie on 26 November 2013, 20:03:33
Evening all.  Some advice needed.

We recently purchased a w reg 2.5 elite saloon for the princely sum of £200.
It has since developed what I thought was a misfire, but it has been diagnosed as water getting into one of the pistons.

Local garages are pricing head gasket replacement as a no go(£600+).

Is there anyone on here who is capable of doing the job at a more modest price, or does someone have a good replacement engine that I could drop in.

I dont want to scrap her as she normally drives lovely, but as money is nearly non existant, that is looking like the only option.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.  Mark.

How was this diagnosis done? What are the symptoms? Is it oil in the expansion tank?

The V6 head gaskets rarely fail, the 2.5 is one of the strongest of the bunch.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 20:50:48
A mechanic diagnosed water in the pistons. Said he could hear it as soon as he lifted the bonnet. Told us to put rad weld + in which cured it for about 10 days but the misfire  under acceleration is back. As the wife says it running 'rough as rats'.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: RobG on 26 November 2013, 20:52:51
A mechanic diagnosed water in the pistons. Said he could hear it as soon as he lifted the bonnet. Told us to put rad weld + in which cured it for about 10 days but the misfire  under acceleration is back. As the wife says it running 'rough as rats'.
Talking utter shite
Worst thing you can do
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: martin42 on 26 November 2013, 20:54:05
Basics,are you losing water,yes or no.
Is oil milky on dipstick,yes or no.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: tunnie on 26 November 2013, 20:55:40
A mechanic diagnosed water in the pistons. Said he could hear it as soon as he lifted the bonnet. Told us to put rad weld + in which cured it for about 10 days but the misfire  under acceleration is back. As the wife says it running 'rough as rats'.


OooooK  ???

I'd personally never use any mechanic again, if they advised rad weld. It's such a bodge, it often does so much more damage to the cooling system.

A missfire under load could be a number of things, head gasket would be at the very, very bottom of the list. (of about 1,000 other possibilities  ::))

1) Are you loosing coolant?
2) Have you taken the spark plugs out? (inspect for oil/water)
3) Is there oil in the coolant?
4) Do a "paper clip" test, details in the maintenance section
5) Post up these codes

 :y :y :y
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 20:59:54
It using about a pint of water a week. There is no oil in the water bottle and no mayo in the oil filler neck.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 21:01:34
Cant paperclip as no eml bulb, but no codes if I plug in a reader.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: RobseyMV6 on 26 November 2013, 21:01:45
Steam coming out tail pipe all the time?
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: RobG on 26 November 2013, 21:02:44
Cant paperclip as no eml bulb, but no codes if I plug in a reader.
If it`s an OBDII diagnostic you`ll get naff all codes
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 21:04:15
No more steam than I would expect in relation to other cars in the mornings.

There is oil in the plug wells.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: RobseyMV6 on 26 November 2013, 21:05:44
I sent you a pm could this be hbv?
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: tunnie on 26 November 2013, 21:05:50
Taken the plugs out for inspection? Most common cause of miss-fire on 2.5/3.0 is a faulty dis-pack or HT lead.

Sorry but I don't believe no codes, not on an Omega  ::)

Take the dash out, put a bulb in and read the codes  :y
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: Andy B on 26 November 2013, 21:09:11
Cant paperclip as no eml bulb, but no codes if I plug in a reader.

As RobG says, 3.0 are NOT OBDII compliant  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: RobG on 26 November 2013, 21:13:53
Cant paperclip as no eml bulb, but no codes if I plug in a reader.

As RobG says, 3.0 are NOT OBDII compliant  ;) ;)
Neither is the 2.5, what the OP is referring to ::) ::)
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: jtypecav on 26 November 2013, 21:14:03
I'm in Bath and have a variety of cheapo readers as I had to get my 2.5 Cavalier / Omega mish-mash talking reliably from a field in somerset!

As others have said, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't lit up like an xmas tree with at least something!
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: tunnie on 26 November 2013, 21:16:32
I'm in Bath and have a variety of cheapo readers as I had to get my 2.5 Cavalier / Omega mish-mash talking reliably from a field in somerset!

As others have said, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't lit up like an xmas tree with at least something!

Indeed, there will be loads of codes  :y

It needs a bulb put back in the dash and paper-clip test done.  :)
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: Andy B on 26 November 2013, 21:16:59
Cant paperclip as no eml bulb, but no codes if I plug in a reader.

As RobG says, 3.0 are NOT OBDII compliant  ;) ;)
Neither is the 2.5, what the OP is referring to ::) ::)

 :P :P :P :P :P :P  ::)
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: martin42 on 26 November 2013, 21:23:57
Ask yourself why the bulb was removed from dashboard,because it has problems the seller was hiding from you  :y
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 21:29:41
Ask yourself why the bulb was removed from dashboard,because it has problems the seller was hiding from you  :y

Beginning to look that way.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 21:31:56
I am now being told by SWMBO (her car), that she dreads having to put fuel in as it doesnt always want to start if the engine is hot.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: tunnie on 26 November 2013, 21:35:09
To be honest we are going to go around and around in circles, until you get the codes read.

Hot starting could be crank sensor, or number of issues. But you are pishing in the wind without codes  ::)
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: RobG on 26 November 2013, 21:35:49
I am now being told by SWMBO (her car), that she dreads having to put fuel in as it doesnt always want to start if the engine is hot.
Sounds like crank sensor issues as well. As said, whack a bulb in and clip for codes
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 21:38:02
Will take dash out over the weekend and post codes after.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: RobG on 26 November 2013, 21:40:39
Will take dash out over the weekend and post codes after.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQUYJSzeJowvLAf1qUFvQX-uDfeZlZYhDUEy_yl4FobOEVKFt6VJg)
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: dbug on 26 November 2013, 22:16:00
As others have said - poor hot starting likely to be failing crank sensor.

Misfire likely to be due to the oil in the plug wells, caused by failed cam cover gaskets probably due to bunged up breather system.

Water loss probably failed HBV - feel for wetness drivers side down behind plenum.

Failed head gasket on a 2.5 V6 is extremely rare - the other causes listed above are common ;)

Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: chrisgixer on 26 November 2013, 23:15:26
Don't trust that garages diagnosis. If we all had a pound for every miss diagnosed head gasket we see on here TB would of had a new server years ago.

As said, add up all the usual common faults on this engine and its easy to end up right where we are now.

Pressure test the system to find the coolant leak, if its not the hbv which is fairly easy test with ac on or off.
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 23:51:09
As others have said - poor hot starting likely to be failing crank sensor.

Misfire likely to be due to the oil in the plug wells, caused by failed cam cover gaskets probably due to bunged up breather system.

Water loss probably failed HBV - feel for wetness drivers side down behind plenum.

Failed head gasket on a 2.5 V6 is extremely rare - the other causes listed above are common ;)

What and where?
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 26 November 2013, 23:52:21
Don't trust that garages diagnosis. If we all had a pound for every miss diagnosed head gasket we see on here TB would of had a new server years ago.

As said, add up all the usual common faults on this engine and its easy to end up right where we are now.

Pressure test the system to find the coolant leak, if its not the hbv which is fairly easy test with ac on or off.

How do I pressure test the system?
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 November 2013, 09:00:08
Get the thing up to me for a couple of days.

You can have it back, repaired, for a fraction of what your garage want.

The process will involve a coolant pressure test, plug inspection, inspection for oil/water in plug wells, presence of exhaust gas in header tank, basically a proper methodical diagnosis

It's just a shame the plonker told you to put rad weld in, it can mask the problem making diagnosis more difficult

I'd be amazed if its HG. Because even though the composite gasket material can rot to high heaven, the fire rings around the pistons stay intact

Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: LC0112G on 27 November 2013, 09:31:54
Err - excude my ignorance on this, but...

Is this a pre or post facelift? I have a Tech 1 + MSC, and that used to be able to read the codes on my P, S and T Reg Omegas. I don't know where it stops working, but it doesn't work on my current 2001 Y reg.

If there is a chance of it working on your car, then I'm in Yeovil and you're welcome to ues it.

Cheers
Malcolm
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: robson on 27 November 2013, 10:56:26
Well done James get it sorted for him .
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: MadMark73 on 28 November 2013, 19:16:54
Do these codes make sense?

135, 61, 48 & 19
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: RobG on 28 November 2013, 19:21:02
Do these codes make sense?

135, Ignore
61, Ignore
48, Ignore 
19 Crank sensor
That`s your hot start problem. Other three are due to battery running low
Title: Re: Head gaskets or change engine.
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 29 November 2013, 14:34:18
Do these codes make sense?

135, Ignore
61, Ignore
48, Ignore 
19 Crank sensor
That`s your hot start problem. Other three are due to battery running low

Agree fully

Crank sensor and unrelated coolant leak :y