Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tunnie on 30 November 2013, 14:22:48
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Could a 76L donut LPG tank, fit in the spare wheel well of an Omega Saloon?
Or is the max 55L? :-\
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If only no could remember the sizes.
I tried the next size up to what I had, and it wouldn't quite drop in without catching the side if the boot opening
I reckoned it could be made to fit by subtle adjustment of the wheel well and floor. But the reality of these things is it will take bloody ages to sort, may well affect the metal work of the car, and quite possibly not come out again, ever.
It takes a few attempts to get the plumbing to sit right behind the tank. It's fiddly on a single hole, and space is limited behind there once the air tight hose is fitted.
It will be a ball ache.
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Edited to add... tank is a four hole 650x270...
There are two issues to consider...
1. Width of the spare tyre, 195?, versus the width of the tank, 270. Physically it won't drop in.
2. Tank is designed to be mounted flat, not on its side.
If you were to mount it in the rear corner of the boot, it would take up a little more height than a full size spare, so should allow use of the folding rear seats. Would suggest right hand side to keep the plumbing off the exhaust though :-\
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Booo. :'(
That's that then :(
Shame, as Al's kit would have done the job perfectly. :(
Cheers Chris :y
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I need all of the boot in the 3.2, so mounting it in the boot anywhere is an issue :(
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Also 55L tank is just not enough, I would need to do a run to Wales & back on a tank of gas, with some spare, 55L just does not give that range.
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I agree yes. 55l also means it's less economical, due to running out if gas quicker, more often and messing about looking for LPG stations. Especially on holiday when your off your own patch.
... I suppose it wouldn't take much to cut cut the boot floor and make the well wider. But the shape of the base of the wheel well also means it sits higher. No real biggy, just means the carpet wheel cover won't fit and the tank may have to be lifted out to get at the light cluster. Although changing a bulb might be easier if you have gadget hands. ;)
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Also last i looked they only do single hole uprights. They aren't the most reliable.
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I need all of the boot in the 3.2, so mounting it in the boot anywhere is an issue :(
Where's the spare wheel going to live then?
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Install one of theses or similar...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672663883 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672663883)
And lose the petrol tank completely :-\
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Also last i looked they only do single hole uprights. They aren't the most reliable.
Having seen quite a few V6 installs, it's clear that a 3.2 would really need a 4 hole tank, even for me.
I need all of the boot in the 3.2, so mounting it in the boot anywhere is an issue :(
Where's the spare wheel going to live then?
In the garage ;D
Install one of theses or similar...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672663883 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672663883)
And lose the petrol tank completely :-\
Not sure I follow :-\
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If you pre heat the coolant, you don't need petrol to start the car from cold :y
If you find it close to the line, you can easily get a custom petrol tank made to fit next to the donut under the boot floor as a justincase back up...
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Ah I see, good suggestion, but always need to have petrol tank there. As you never know :y
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Install one of theses or similar...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672663883 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672663883)
And lose the petrol tank completely :-\
There are some 12 Volt ones around but they do hammer the battery, so probably some sort of second battery set up required.
Out of interest I was running a 1.4 Tigra on LPG only for about 3 months last winter without any issues, just needed a minuet or two before driving off other wise the ECU would moan. :y
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I need all of the boot in the 3.2, so mounting it in the boot anywhere is an issue :(
Where's the spare wheel going to live then?
Left mine in the boot unless I needed the space. Then it was either in behind the front seats or as Tunnie says, left in the garage and risk it :)
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Under the boot floor and you get to keep the spare and the bootspace :y
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Install one of theses or similar...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672663883 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672663883)
And lose the petrol tank completely :-\
Now one of those with remote start... :y
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Rather have a small petrol tank, if forced to go that route. I popped half a tank of petrol in the 2.2 for my Austria trip, back in January. Still using the same fuel ;D (almost 7k miles later)
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Not sure I'd be happy to loose petrol completely, tbh.
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Readily available at three + times the price :y plus a second battery so that the car actually starts ::)
Should be easy enough to get a tank specialist to cut two thirds of the tank off and weld a new end to it (or cut a section from the centre of it, assuming a degree of symmetry) :-\ that would give you 25 litres of justincase fuel, so about 150 miles plus the gas range...
No plumbing issues either, as all the factory fittings could remain...
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Having seen quite a few V6 installs, it's clear that a 3.2 would really need a 4 hole tank, even for me.
Why? I have a single hole 80L and have never had any issues with it. I average 14-16 mpg, so should give you an idea of how I drive. And this so called slosh effect is not something I have ever noticed. Of course if installed poorly then no amount of holes will help lpg flow.
The other reason why people claim to spend more on a 4 hole tank is faster fill rates. Having filled up at the same pump with a mates car (with a 4 hole cylinder) on the next pump, it was not any faster. I think the speed of the fill depends on the pump, which is the limiting factor.
Lastly 4 hole tanks are more work/piping/expense. So unless the kit you are using is poorly designed, I dont see the reason to spend extra on a 4 hole tank and ancillaries.
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Having seen quite a few V6 installs, it's clear that a 3.2 would really need a 4 hole tank, even for me.
Why? I have a single hole 80L and have never had any issues with it. I average 14-16 mpg, so should give you an idea of how I drive. And this so called slosh effect is not something I have ever noticed. Of course if installed poorly then no amount of holes will help lpg flow.
The other reason why people claim to spend more on a 4 hole tank is faster fill rates. Having filled up at the same pump with a mates car (with a 4 hole cylinder) on the next pump, it was not any faster. I think the speed of the fill depends on the pump, which is the limiting factor.
Lastly 4 hole tanks are more work/piping/expense. So unless the kit you are using is poorly designed, I dont see the reason to spend extra on a 4 hole tank and ancillaries.
Just going by experience here with the stag kit, 4 hole appeared the way to go, due to issues with single hole and performance issues.
That said 14mpg on gas? I'm averaging 25-27mpg on petrol, so not a lot of point in gassing it ;D
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Having seen quite a few V6 installs, it's clear that a 3.2 would really need a 4 hole tank, even for me.
Why? I have a single hole 80L and have never had any issues with it. I average 14-16 mpg, so should give you an idea of how I drive. And this so called slosh effect is not something I have ever noticed. Of course if installed poorly then no amount of holes will help lpg flow.
The other reason why people claim to spend more on a 4 hole tank is faster fill rates. Having filled up at the same pump with a mates car (with a 4 hole cylinder) on the next pump, it was not any faster. I think the speed of the fill depends on the pump, which is the limiting factor.
Lastly 4 hole tanks are more work/piping/expense. So unless the kit you are using is poorly designed, I dont see the reason to spend extra on a 4 hole tank and ancillaries.
Just going by experience here with the stag kit, 4 hole appeared the way to go, due to issues with single hole and performance issues.
That said 14mpg on gas? I'm averaging 25-27mpg on petrol, so not a lot of point in gassing it ;D
Its 14-16mpg whether on gas or petrol. Its a defect with my right foot. Nothing I can do to correct it. In terms of relative mpg difference between the 2 fuels, there is less than a 10% difference. I would not go back to petrol if at all possible. Plus The Texaco near our house in Leeds does LPG at 59p/L.
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Really can't grumble at that price :o
Having had a rummage, repairing/reshaping a plastic tank looks like a diy job tbh, but there are firms that do it...
http://www.hendersons.co.uk/mailer1.html (http://www.hendersons.co.uk/mailer1.html) to name but one :y
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4 holes are much easier to install, flow more gas, switch over reliably, don't switch back for no reason, and the float valve doesn't rattle against the side of the tank in corners. I especially like the inference that it depends, somehow, who fits it. Yeah, ok ;D
I guess the 4 hole was invented for er, what reason? Oh I know, better safety, better reliability, and economics. All 4 components in one valve means a failure of one means replacement of all. A far more sturdy construction on the outside of the tank rather than the side of a pokey little hole in the middle that impossible to see into and around corners.
....Ahem, cough cough <sarcasm mode off> Apologies, must be having a bad day. ::)
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A high flow multivalve should be OK. I use a BRC multivalve in my 3.0l, with no lean running worries.
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A high flow multivalve should be OK. I use a BRC multivalve in my 3.0l, with no lean running worries.
But yours isn't an upright toroidal ;)
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A high flow multivalve should be OK. I use a BRC multivalve in my 3.0l, with no lean running worries.
But yours isn't an upright toroidal ;)
Aye, indeed, not sure if high flow multivavles are available for upright tanks, guess they are. TBH, the valve you had was almost good enough for flow IIRC?
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How much boot space would actually be lost if the spare was removed and the tank mounted horizontally over the wheel well as tight to the wing/wheel arch as feasible :-\
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4 holes are much easier to install, flow more gas, switch over reliably, don't switch back for no reason, and the float valve doesn't rattle against the side of the tank in corners. I especially like the inference that it depends, somehow, who fits it. Yeah, ok ;D
I guess the 4 hole was invented for er, what reason? Oh I know, better safety, better reliability, and economics. All 4 components in one valve means a failure of one means replacement of all. A far more sturdy construction on the outside of the tank rather than the side of a pokey little hole in the middle that impossible to see into and around corners.
....Ahem, cough cough <sarcasm mode off> Apologies, must be having a bad day. ::)
With a suitably designed multi valve, properly installed, I have had none of the issues you claim to plague single hole tanks. If I were installing a kit into a Vxr,then perhaps you need high end components. But for a run of the mill Omega it seems like overkill. Perhaps the stag kits are poorly designed? After all it is a budget kit. Personally I would put money into better quality injectors than a 4 hole tank, which by the way is significantly more expensive. Well at least the ones I looked at were.
Edited to add: This is on a standard cylinder. The toroidal tanks are too small to have any useful range on an Omega.
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Would 50KG's be a good idea tucked right into that corner?
Admittedly it's not a huge weight, but........ :-\
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Fair point, but what does the spare weigh, probably 15kg or so :-\
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Would 50KG's be a good idea tucked right into that corner?
Admittedly it's not a huge weight, but........ :-\
Makes no odds. Given the drives counters it. Even leads the driver, there's no measurable difference in ride height Accross all four corners. There's also a tolerance of 10mm +/- 5mm. :)
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4 holes are much easier to install, flow more gas, switch over reliably, don't switch back for no reason, and the float valve doesn't rattle against the side of the tank in corners. I especially like the inference that it depends, somehow, who fits it. Yeah, ok ;D
I guess the 4 hole was invented for er, what reason? Oh I know, better safety, better reliability, and economics. All 4 components in one valve means a failure of one means replacement of all. A far more sturdy construction on the outside of the tank rather than the side of a pokey little hole in the middle that impossible to see into and around corners.
....Ahem, cough cough <sarcasm mode off> Apologies, must be having a bad day. ::)
With a suitably designed multi valve, properly installed, I have had none of the issues you claim to plague single hole tanks. If I were installing a kit into a Vxr,then perhaps you need high end components. But for a run of the mill Omega it seems like overkill. Perhaps the stag kits are poorly designed? After all it is a budget kit. Personally I would put money into better quality injectors than a 4 hole tank, which by the way is significantly more expensive. Well at least the ones I looked at were.
Edited to add: This is on a standard cylinder. The toroidal tanks are too small to have any useful range on an Omega.
Stag don't design multi valves....ecu's and presumably looms yes. It's the software that's stag, nout to do with the components. I have no idea if the stag system is well designed or not, but there's several members here happy with it.
...but note, none of those members, you included D, has the any experience with owning a multivalve in an UPRIGHT TOROIDAL.
Its good to see you've finally noticed the difference between your set up and the topic of this discussion. As said earlier, last I looked, no 4 hole exists in an upright toroidal. Now if a four hole does now exist, that would be different. Go for the upright toroidal and MAKE the damn thing fit as that's worth perusing.
To be totally fair, I didn't see why a single hole upright toroidal would be problematic either, BEFORE owning one. It's ok for plodding about, but upgrade your elites suspension and a new envelope of performance opens up that simply isn't possible on the standard suspension so affecting the valve in corners. Although Tunnie may not be concerned by that to tbh its still not something that could be described as satisfactory.
I would add, I would never attempt to pas comment on cylinder single hole, having never owned one. Because rightly, I would not be able to "see why it wouldn't work" either D! At least compare like with like. ;)
We are aware of the poor range, as implied in the first few posts, and the suggestion of a larger capacity tank than the 55l tanks that are known to fit. 4 litres short of the 80l cylinders most of us have AND a full size boot space is worth having. ::) do try to keep up at the back ;)
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D, I think your multivalve is a high flowing one. I know I had a long discussion with Tubbs over the issues experienced with the standard one Chris had fitted ;)
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D, I think your multivalve is a high flowing one. I know I had a long discussion with Tubbs over the issues experienced with the standard one Chris had fitted ;)
Matters not. Assuming those upright Multi valves are available in the uk now. Wish I'd known that before.
I'm tempted to change mine. But then, how often do I need the full boot space these days. :-\
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D, I think your multivalve is a high flowing one. I know I had a long discussion with Tubbs over the issues experienced with the standard one Chris had fitted ;)
Matters not. Assuming those upright Multi valves are available in the uk now. Wish I'd known that before.
I'm tempted to change mine. But then, how often do I need the full boot space these days. :-\
Don't think they are, although one could probably be modified. Could you really cope with the crappy range?
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D, I think your multivalve is a high flowing one. I know I had a long discussion with Tubbs over the issues experienced with the standard one Chris had fitted ;)
Matters not. Assuming those upright Multi valves are available in the uk now. Wish I'd known that before.
I'm tempted to change mine. But then, how often do I need the full boot space these days. :-\
Don't think they are, although one could probably be modified. Could you really cope with the crappy range?
Well, as said earlier, only if a size similar the 80l would fit. Or be made to fit. I'd be prepared to modify the wheel well/boot floor a bit to get 76l in, or whatever.
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There posts missing on this thread. I posted some links to upright 4 hole donuts that aren't present.
Hold on.
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Click the tabs for sizes and specs
Upright (stand) toroidal 4 hole. Various sizes up to and over 85l, unless I've miss read, again?
http://www.elpigaz.com/en/stand-moremo/
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About 2/3rds the way down this page...
http://shopgas.pl/Zbiorniki-LPG-i-mocowania(2,21668,).aspx (http://shopgas.pl/Zbiorniki-LPG-i-mocowania(2,21668,).aspx)
But my Czech is non existant at best :-[
Guess if you add it to the basket it would produce a price :-\
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About 2/3rds the way down this page...
http://shopgas.pl/Zbiorniki-LPG-i-mocowania(2,21668,).aspx (http://shopgas.pl/Zbiorniki-LPG-i-mocowania(2,21668,).aspx)
But my Czech is non existant at best :-[
Guess if you add it to the basket it would produce a price :-\
Polish. :P Use Chrome and it will translate it for you. ;)
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About 2/3rds the way down this page...
http://shopgas.pl/Zbiorniki-LPG-i-mocowania(2,21668,).aspx (http://shopgas.pl/Zbiorniki-LPG-i-mocowania(2,21668,).aspx)
But my Czech is non existant at best :-[
Guess if you add it to the basket it would produce a price :-\
Polish. :P Use Chrome and it will translate it for you. ;)
Or just use google translate, but there's clearly no uk supplier. So a proper hands on measuring up is going to be difficult.
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About 2/3rds the way down this page...
http://shopgas.pl/Zbiorniki-LPG-i-mocowania(2,21668,).aspx (http://shopgas.pl/Zbiorniki-LPG-i-mocowania(2,21668,).aspx)
But my Czech is non existant at best :-[
Guess if you add it to the basket it would produce a price :-\
Polish. :P Use Chrome and it will translate it for you. ;)
;D should have got that from the url ::)
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Aren't you're rear wheels almost the same size :-\ could use an old tyre for trial fitting...
265s would need a 35mm filler, a couple of 18mm chipboard panels cut to 650mm and screwed either side of the tyre gives you your 'tank' :y