Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Taxi_Driver on 04 February 2014, 18:30:34
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Im thinking about getting one of these
http://www.viessmann.co.uk/en/flats_apartments/Product/Gas_condensing_boilers/vitodens_100-w_compact.html
Plumber has told me he will have to replace the 15mm gas pipe going to my old boiler with 22mm....which is quite a bit of work involved.....ie ripping up floorboards...
My question is having looked at the install instructions on the boiler it says the gas connection is 1/2in male iron ?? Now that is 12.summat mm ..... so should the 15mm gas pipe i already have be ok :-\ Im probably missing something here :-\
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Its just a standard 1/2 " iron to copper fitting thats used :y
Gas run is normally run in 22mm until about the last 1.5 m away from the boiler
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Its just a standard 1/2 " iron to copper fitting thats used :y
Gas run is normally run in 22mm until about the last 1.5 m away from the boiler
Ah ok...thanks for that.....even tho the plumber couldnt see under the floorboards....he reckons the 22mm pipe that comes into the house goes down to 15mm somewhere halfway thro the house which is about 8m short of the boiler......so he's correct then :y
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Its just a standard 1/2 " iron to copper fitting thats used :y
Gas run is normally run in 22mm until about the last 1.5 m away from the boiler
Ah ok...thanks for that.....even tho the plumber couldnt see under the floorboards....he reckons the 22mm pipe that comes into the house goes down to 15mm somewhere halfway thro the house which is about 8m short of the boiler......so he's correct then :y
He should have done a test at the boiler location to determine that - you can't get as "much gas" though 15mm compared to 22mm pipes. Think of it as the really thick wires going to a starter motor .........
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Its just a standard 1/2 " iron to copper fitting thats used :y
Gas run is normally run in 22mm until about the last 1.5 m away from the boiler
Ah ok...thanks for that.....even tho the plumber couldnt see under the floorboards....he reckons the 22mm pipe that comes into the house goes down to 15mm somewhere halfway thro the house which is about 8m short of the boiler......so he's correct then :y
He should have done a test at the boiler location to determine that - you can't get as "much gas" though 15mm compared to 22mm pipes. Think of it as the really thick wires going to a starter motor .........
At low (relative) pressure........... ;)
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He should have done a test at the boiler location to determine that - you can't get as "much gas" though 15mm compared to 22mm pipes. Think of it as the really thick wires going to a starter motor .........
Or drinking the contents of your Home Brew Container through a Straw. ;)
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So can somebody explain how any length of the pipe being 15mm is allowed....(assuming no other device is T-d off the pipe), or are we in the world of gas fitters logic ;D
As an example, do you think you could drink your home brew easier through a long thin straw or a pipe of the same length which was f-large for 3/4 of the run with the remaining 1/4 being the same thin straw size....
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So can somebody explain how any length of the pipe being 15mm is allowed....(assuming no other device is T-d off the pipe), or are we in the world of gas fitters logic ;D
As an example, do you think you could drink your home brew easier through a long thin straw or a pipe of the same length which was f-large for 3/4 of the run with the remaining 1/4 being the same thin straw size....
Indeed. you could run the gas main directly up to the fitting on the boiler, but if it's only 1/2 in. guess where the restriction will be... ;D
I'd be downloading the installation manual for the boiler and checking that, TBH. Then you can get the gas fitter to explain the logic behind ignoring what it recommends. Oh, and ask him how he's going to stop the condensate drain from freezing too, if you fancy a laugh. :D
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I'd look at getting rid of all the old iron gas supply pipe while your at it, and get your fitter to run 22mm copper back to the meter. Last year my Mum had a nasty gas leak where a joint in the old iron pipe had rusted and failed. ::)
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As an example, do you think you could drink your home brew easier through a long thin straw or a pipe of the same length which was f-large for 3/4 of the run with the remaining 1/4 being the same thin straw size....
No idea Mark, but if its someone else's Beer and its free, Im up for the test experiment. :y
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As an example, do you think you could drink your home brew easier through a long thin straw or a pipe of the same length which was f-large for 3/4 of the run with the remaining 1/4 being the same thin straw size....
No idea Mark, but if its someone else's Beer and its free, Im up for the test experiment. :y
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Oh, and ask him how he's going to stop the condensate drain from freezing too, if you fancy a laugh. :D
I think they fit a little electric blanket around them these days. ::) ;D
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Oh, and ask him how he's going to stop the condensate drain from freezing too, if you fancy a laugh. :D
I think they fit a little electric blanket around them these days. ::) ;D
Ahh. ::) anything to avoid Please read the manual!
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When we wanted our new boiler installed BG gave us a quote :'( . After I'd got off the floor I went through it with the guy and sought explanations for some of the nonsense that was included.
The new boiler was to be about 15m further away from the meter than the old one, but on the other hand, the main gas run went onto feed 2 x 5Kw gas fires - which were to be removed at the same time
Part of the quote was to increase the size of this main pipe from 22mm to 35mm ;D. They point blank refused to take into account the fact that the two fires were being removed.
A local guy got the contract, he took the fire removal into account and was more than happy with the pressure & flow rate of the 22mm pipework which then ran all the way through to the boiler location.
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BG do tend to extract the Michael :) I have always seen 22mm used to the boiler on new builds or upgrades from old 'vintage' boilers to more modern ones, although the manual that comes with your new boiler should give you some guidance.
As far as I remember the problem is often gas flow rather than gas pressure which is normally 20 millibar
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So can somebody explain how any length of the pipe being 15mm is allowed....(assuming no other device is T-d off the pipe), or are we in the world of gas fitters logic ;D
As an example, do you think you could drink your home brew easier through a long thin straw or a pipe of the same length which was f-large for 3/4 of the run with the remaining 1/4 being the same thin straw size....
Indeed. you could run the gas main directly up to the fitting on the boiler, but if it's only 1/2 in. guess where the restriction will be... ;D
I'd be downloading the installation manual for the boiler and checking that, TBH. Then you can get the gas fitter to explain the logic behind ignoring what it recommends. Oh, and ask him how he's going to stop the condensate drain from freezing too, if you fancy a laugh. :D
I did and hence the original post.....so are we saying that 15mm pipe will be ok? :-\ as the fitting manual states 1/2in male iron for the connection...
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So can somebody explain how any length of the pipe being 15mm is allowed....(assuming no other device is T-d off the pipe), or are we in the world of gas fitters logic ;D
As an example, do you think you could drink your home brew easier through a long thin straw or a pipe of the same length which was f-large for 3/4 of the run with the remaining 1/4 being the same thin straw size....
Indeed. you could run the gas main directly up to the fitting on the boiler, but if it's only 1/2 in. guess where the restriction will be... ;D
I'd be downloading the installation manual for the boiler and checking that, TBH. Then you can get the gas fitter to explain the logic behind ignoring what it recommends. Oh, and ask him how he's going to stop the condensate drain from freezing too, if you fancy a laugh. :D
He's got his work cut out there ;D
He's got to drill 3 holes to get the pipe outside.....one hole through the original outside wall.....then a partition wall (easy enough) then route the pipe behind the bath....and then another outside wall ...and then I'll see how he leaves the pipe once its outside....I've spare 22mm pipe lagging that i was going to put on the pipe outside if he doesnt lag it :y
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The condensate drain catches many out, seen loads done, no bother in the summer but in winter pipe freezes, condensate backs up the pipe and in a couple of cases froze solid in the boiler :'( :'( Switch in the condensate trap should have stopped boiler but in these cases it failed and one poor chap had a split heat exchanger :'( :'( :'(
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So can somebody explain how any length of the pipe being 15mm is allowed....(assuming no other device is T-d off the pipe), or are we in the world of gas fitters logic ;D
As an example, do you think you could drink your home brew easier through a long thin straw or a pipe of the same length which was f-large for 3/4 of the run with the remaining 1/4 being the same thin straw size....
Indeed. you could run the gas main directly up to the fitting on the boiler, but if it's only 1/2 in. guess where the restriction will be... ;D
I'd be downloading the installation manual for the boiler and checking that, TBH. Then you can get the gas fitter to explain the logic behind ignoring what it recommends. Oh, and ask him how he's going to stop the condensate drain from freezing too, if you fancy a laugh. :D
He's got his work cut out there ;D
He's got to drill 3 holes to get the pipe outside.....one hole through the original outside wall.....then a partition wall (easy enough) then route the pipe behind the bath....and then another outside wall ...and then I'll see how he leaves the pipe once its outside....I've spare 22mm pipe lagging that i was going to put on the pipe outside if he doesnt lag it :y
22mm pipe outside, you say? ::)
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Always been 21.5mm plastic pipe up my neck of the woods
Some 'tradesmen' have been known to use electricians 20mm plastic conduit ;)
Their rational was 'well the punter won't know' and I suppose at first glance it looks similar :)
I blame the boiler manufacturers for making the outlet a compression fitting thereby facilitating the bodge ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The condensate drain catches many out, seen loads done, no bother in the summer but in winter pipe freezes, condensate backs up the pipe and in a couple of cases froze solid in the boiler :'( :'( Switch in the condensate trap should have stopped boiler but in these cases it failed and one poor chap had a split heat exchanger :'( :'( :'(
In reality it highlights the incompitence of to many in the profession ;D :y
Worse still, 'gas safe', the government AND the boiler manufacturers all give guidence on how to do it.....but still, they continue to prove incompitence ;D ;D
Hang on a minute, Gas Safe is supposed to be a method for proving compitence.....its any oxymoron!
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He's got his work cut out there ;D
He's got to drill 3 holes to get the pipe outside.....one hole through the original outside wall.....then a partition wall (easy enough) then route the pipe behind the bath....and then another outside wall ...and then I'll see how he leaves the pipe once its outside....I've spare 22mm pipe lagging that i was going to put on the pipe outside if he doesnt lag it :y
Er....so why dont they T into the foul waste at the bath therefore avoiding the need to go outside and eliminating the possibility that the pipe might freeze.....
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He's got his work cut out there ;D
He's got to drill 3 holes to get the pipe outside.....one hole through the original outside wall.....then a partition wall (easy enough) then route the pipe behind the bath....and then another outside wall ...and then I'll see how he leaves the pipe once its outside....I've spare 22mm pipe lagging that i was going to put on the pipe outside if he doesnt lag it :y
Er....so why dont they T into the foul waste at the bath therefore avoiding the need to go outside and eliminating the possibility that the pipe might freeze.....
Don't be silly now Marks that's far too straight forward and sensible ;D ;D
Incidentally that is how mine is done ;D
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The condensate drain catches many out, seen loads done, no bother in the summer but in winter pipe freezes, condensate backs up the pipe and in a couple of cases froze solid in the boiler :'( :'( Switch in the condensate trap should have stopped boiler but in these cases it failed and one poor chap had a split heat exchanger :'( :'( :'(
In reality it highlights the incompitence of to many in the profession ;D :y
Worse still, 'gas safe', the government AND the boiler manufacturers all give guidence on how to do it.....but still, they continue to prove incompitence ;D ;D
Hang on a minute, Gas Safe is supposed to be a method for proving compitence.....its any oxymoron!
You'll get no argument from me re many 'professionals' competence
You can give them all the guidance, manuals etc in the world but they will do it their way because they know best :)
A lot of them follow the '' Monkey see Monkey do'' school of thought unfortunately
Even worse are the ones that only fit say combis or worse only a specific make of boiler and justify there ignorance by the old maxim of ''Well it works on a Bosch, Potterton, Ideal etc
How I love my fellow professionals (used in the very loosest sense of the word) ;D ;D ;D
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Check out the warranty periods on new boilers TD, as some of the manufacturers are offering 5, 7, and 10 years! :y
Of course there will be T&C's like regular servicing and maintenance, but worth looking at. ;)
http://warranty.baxi.co.uk/
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He's got his work cut out there ;D
He's got to drill 3 holes to get the pipe outside.....one hole through the original outside wall.....then a partition wall (easy enough) then route the pipe behind the bath....and then another outside wall ...and then I'll see how he leaves the pipe once its outside....I've spare 22mm pipe lagging that i was going to put on the pipe outside if he doesnt lag it :y
Er....so why dont they T into the foul waste at the bath therefore avoiding the need to go outside and eliminating the possibility that the pipe might freeze.....
Don't be silly now Marks that's far too straight forward and sensible ;D ;D
Incidentally that is how mine is done ;D
Mine too into a sink waste, but I have been told it is not allowed, something to do with acids in the condensate.
I have had a Viessmann Vitodens 200 for 5 years, it appears to be a very good boiler, with a ten year warranty IF serviced annually by a Viessmann qualified plumber. (Trying to find one can be tricky!) But read the warranty restrictions, for example, not allowed to use leak sealer. :y
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Mine too into a sink waste, but I have been told it is not allowed, something to do with acids in the condensate.
It has to go into a foul sewer as opposed to a rainwater drain / soakaway for this reason, but I fail to see how this prohibits connection to a sink, since that will have to go to the foul sewer anyway. More "gas fitter logic"? ::)
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Mine too into a sink waste, but I have been told it is not allowed, something to do with acids in the condensate.
It has to go into a foul sewer as opposed to a rainwater drain / soakaway for this reason, but I fail to see how this prohibits connection to a sink, since that will have to go to the foul sewer anyway. More "gas fitter logic"? ::)
Yes, more gas fitters 'anti logic', fully permitable install, they can connect in as per a dishwasher waste :y
In fact its a great method of instal as it means you also get you air break included without a tun dish and the acid helps keep the drain clear ;D