Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: f3nt0n on 04 February 2014, 18:36:34

Title: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: f3nt0n on 04 February 2014, 18:36:34
I recently tried jump starting my VW Golf (flat as a pancake) with my Omega. Made a real rookie mistake - connected the + to - across the two batteries. Tried to start the Golf, the Omega nearly conked out and the Golf smelt of burning (a bit). Realised my mistake and after much cussing at the stupidity of me, reconnected (the right way round) and the Golf started first time. BUT the Golf battery light is on and it conks out as soon as the jump leads are disconnected. The alternator is no longer spinning round.

I've !&!*ed the alternator on the Golf, haven't I?
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Yasmine Lee on 04 February 2014, 18:38:34
in a word

yep
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: martin42 on 04 February 2014, 18:46:16
Is the auxiliary belt still on the alternator?
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: tidla on 04 February 2014, 19:08:13
The pulleys on vag brands do fail resulting in the alternator freewheeling and eventually falling off. Probably why it went flat unless you know other wise?

If the battery is that flat then it will stall. bench charge, refit and test charge rate.
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Andy B on 04 February 2014, 19:11:51
.. The alternator is no longer spinning round.
.....

 ??? ??? Not sure what you mean ..... is the 'fan belt' still intact?
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: f3nt0n on 04 February 2014, 19:48:24
Is the auxiliary belt still on the alternator?

Yep, nice and secure.
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: f3nt0n on 04 February 2014, 19:49:17
The pulleys on vag brands do fail resulting in the alternator freewheeling and eventually falling off. Probably why it went flat unless you know other wise?

If the battery is that flat then it will stall. bench charge, refit and test charge rate.

It went flat (I am supposing) because it sat around without being used for a year. Cheers.
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: f3nt0n on 04 February 2014, 19:51:08
.. The alternator is no longer spinning round.
.....

 ??? ??? Not sure what you mean ..... is the 'fan belt' still intact?

I might be wrong but I thought that inside the alternator, the 'wirey bits' spin round while charging the battery. They don't spin any more (if they did in the first place). Thanks.
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: henryd on 04 February 2014, 20:16:30
.. The alternator is no longer spinning round.
.....

 ??? ??? Not sure what you mean ..... is the 'fan belt' still intact?

I might be wrong but I thought that inside the alternator, the 'wirey bits' spin round while charging the battery. They don't spin any more (if they did in the first place). Thanks.

No the wirey bits stay still  :y
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Andy B on 04 February 2014, 20:34:38
.. The alternator is no longer spinning round.
.....

 ??? ??? Not sure what you mean ..... is the 'fan belt' still intact?

I might be wrong but I thought that inside the alternator, the 'wirey bits' spin round while charging the battery. They don't spin any more (if they did in the first place). Thanks.

Where are you looking  ...... the bottom right (as you stand in front of the car) is the a/c compressor and the middle bit doesn't spin unless it's engaged. The alternator pulley is always spinning irrespective of how much the alternator is charging.
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: 05omegav6 on 04 February 2014, 21:05:29
.. The alternator is no longer spinning round.
.....

 ??? ??? Not sure what you mean ..... is the 'fan belt' still intact?

I might be wrong but I thought that inside the alternator, the 'wirey bits' spin round while charging the battery. They don't spin any more (if they did in the first place). Thanks.

Where are you looking  ...... the bottom right (as you stand in front of the car) is the a/c compressor and the middle bit doesn't spin unless it's engaged. The alternator pulley is always spinning irrespective of how much the alternator is charging.
All very interesting, but what of the Golfs' alternator  ::)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Andy B on 04 February 2014, 21:33:39
.. The alternator is no longer spinning round.
.....

 ??? ??? Not sure what you mean ..... is the 'fan belt' still intact?

I might be wrong but I thought that inside the alternator, the 'wirey bits' spin round while charging the battery. They don't spin any more (if they did in the first place). Thanks.

Where are you looking  ...... the bottom right (as you stand in front of the car) is the a/c compressor and the middle bit doesn't spin unless it's engaged. The alternator pulley is always spinning irrespective of how much the alternator is charging.
All very interesting, but what of the Golfs' alternator  ::)

Ooops!  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: TheBoy on 05 February 2014, 19:52:10
And some VAG alternators have a clutch, so only engages when the electrics tell it to.
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: TheBoy on 05 February 2014, 19:52:43
Though thought clutch was ecu controlled. Which could be expensive. Can VAG experts confirm?
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: r1 on 05 February 2014, 20:29:03
why do people still jump cars this way?
dosnt anyone read the handbooks with there cars?
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Ever Ready on 05 February 2014, 20:35:33
why do people still jump cars this way?
dosnt anyone read the handbooks with there cars?

Usually only after they have dropped a bollock :)  anyway reading a manual? that's for girls ;D ;D

apologies in advance for any offence caused to the female of the species :)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Andy B on 06 February 2014, 09:19:43
why do people still jump cars this way?
dosnt anyone read the handbooks with there cars?

jump their cars what way? Incorrectly connected or just jump starting cars in general?  :-\
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Kevin Wood on 06 February 2014, 09:25:56
why do people still jump cars this way?
dosnt anyone read the handbooks with there cars?

jump their cars what way? Incorrectly connected or just jump starting cars in general?  :-\

Yep, no problem with either if done correctly, modern car or not. The manual is "for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools" IMHO. ;)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Ever Ready on 06 February 2014, 10:42:15
It's not rocket science after all :)

A lot of people have advised against owners jump starting their cars due to them flooding the cat with fuel.

Unfortunately a lot of owners just keep trying until they flatten their battery and have by then passed a fair bit of un burnt fuel into the exhaust system

Another problem with jump starting is the original battery could be gassing due to having the living daylights knocked out of it on route to being totally flat :(

Surely in todays throw away culture a lot of our fellow motorists do not even possess a set of jump leads and prefer to sip on their Starbucks while waiting for a man/woman with a van :)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Shackeng on 06 February 2014, 10:55:53
why do people still jump cars this way?
dosnt anyone read the handbooks with there cars?

If I've learned anything at my age, it is: I can still get things wrong! :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Kevin Wood on 06 February 2014, 11:44:27
It's not rocket science after all :)

A lot of people have advised against owners jump starting their cars due to them flooding the cat with fuel.

Unfortunately a lot of owners just keep trying until they flatten their battery and have by then passed a fair bit of un burnt fuel into the exhaust system

Another problem with jump starting is the original battery could be gassing due to having the living daylights knocked out of it on route to being totally flat :(

Surely in todays throw away culture a lot of our fellow motorists do not even possess a set of jump leads and prefer to sip on their Starbucks while waiting for a man/woman with a van :)

Indeed. Common sense says that if you've left your lights on and flattened the battery, a jump start is a sensible solution and you'll be back on the road in no time. If you've cranked it endlessly until one battery's flat, it 'ain't going to start until the fault is fixed.

Then again, I have a theory that overpriced coffee, paid for in Switzerland and delivered via Holland, or wherever it was, actually washes away common sense. It's the only explanation for its' rarity these days. ::)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: r1 on 06 February 2014, 22:28:48
 ;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Andy B on 06 February 2014, 22:33:42
......
and reduce the risk of arking

We could do with some arking in this wet weather .......  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Vamps on 06 February 2014, 22:51:48
;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking

No No No!!!!!! negative to negative and then positive to earth, this is the way for any decent car.......... :y :y
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Ever Ready on 06 February 2014, 22:58:17
Always remember if you only have one good jump lead then just push the cars chrome bumpers together, remember and get a good connection or two might become one  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


I actually remember reading in the manuals of older cars not to let bumpers touch when negative earth cars were introduced
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Vamps on 06 February 2014, 23:03:58
Always remember if you only have one good jump lead then just push the cars chrome bumpers together, remember and get a good connection or two might become one  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


I actually remember reading in the manuals of older cars not to let bumpers touch when negative earth cars were introduced

That's the way........... :y :y :y
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: AndyRoid on 07 February 2014, 12:35:22
;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking

No No No!!!!!! negative to negative and then positive to earth, this is the way for any decent car.......... :y :y
Certainly guaranteed to start a fire if you do connect it that way  ;)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: aaronjb on 07 February 2014, 12:42:48
;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking

No No No!!!!!! negative to negative and then positive to earth, this is the way for any decent car.......... :y :y
Certainly guaranteed to start a fire if you do connect it that way  ;)

I think Vamps mistakenly thinks that care are still -ve chassis.. hopefully someone has taken his spanners away now as it's not 1954 anymore ;D
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 February 2014, 14:15:42
;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking

No No No!!!!!! negative to negative and then positive to earth, this is the way for any decent car.......... :y :y
Certainly guaranteed to start a fire if you do connect it that way  ;)

I think Vamps mistakenly thinks that care are still -ve chassis.. hopefully someone has taken his spanners away now as it's not 1954 anymore ;D

I think I'd better have your spanners for safe keeping, please? ::)

Older cars were + to chassis. ;D
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Ever Ready on 07 February 2014, 15:58:25
;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking

No No No!!!!!! negative to negative and then positive to earth, this is the way for any decent car.......... :y :y
Certainly guaranteed to start a fire if you do connect it that way  ;)

I think Vamps mistakenly thinks that care are still -ve chassis.. hopefully someone has taken his spanners away now as it's not 1954 anymore ;D

I think I'd better have your spanners for safe keeping, please? ::)

Older cars were + to chassis. ;D

I think you are being too Negative on the poor chap ;D
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: r1 on 07 February 2014, 18:02:33
;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking

No No No!!!!!! negative to negative and then positive to earth, this is the way for any decent car.......... :y :y
Certainly guaranteed to start a fire if you do connect it that way  ;)

I think Vamps mistakenly thinks that care are still -ve chassis.. hopefully someone has taken his spanners away now as it's not 1954 anymore ;D

I think I'd better have your spanners for safe keeping, please? ::)

Older cars were + to chassis. ;D

I think you are being too Negative on the poor chap ;D


maybe he needs a jump!
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: tidla on 07 February 2014, 20:07:09
Anymore duff info and I recon there could be a hefty charge.
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: aaronjb on 07 February 2014, 21:34:13
;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking

No No No!!!!!! negative to negative and then positive to earth, this is the way for any decent car.......... :y :y
Certainly guaranteed to start a fire if you do connect it that way  ;)

I think Vamps mistakenly thinks that care are still -ve chassis.. hopefully someone has taken his spanners away now as it's not 1954 anymore ;D

I think I'd better have your spanners for safe keeping, please? ::)

Older cars were + to chassis. ;D

I was positive I had my electrons flowing in the right direction, too..

.. but alas, I was wrong all along.
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Vamps on 07 February 2014, 22:26:40
;D ;D ;D
here we go then for people that don't read books
pos to pos
neg to earth point  on engine of car being jumped

this will save your ecu,and reduce the risk of arking

No No No!!!!!! negative to negative and then positive to earth, this is the way for any decent car.......... :y :y
Certainly guaranteed to start a fire if you do connect it that way  ;)

I think Vamps mistakenly thinks that care are still -ve chassis.. hopefully someone has taken his spanners away now as it's not 1954 anymore ;D

I think I'd better have your spanners for safe keeping, please? ::)

Older cars were + to chassis. ;D

Which is what I said Positive to earth, earth being the chassis, proper cars are + earth....... ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: r1 on 08 February 2014, 10:10:13


Which is what I said Positive to earth, earth being the chassis, proper cars are + earth....... ::) ::) ::)
[/quote]

but this is 2014,not 1914 and positive earth cars havnt been made for at least 30 years so nobody cares and if someone had read that and done it.............................................
Title: Re: Foolish jump lead connection
Post by: Ever Ready on 08 February 2014, 10:17:56


Which is what I said Positive to earth, earth being the chassis, proper cars are + earth....... ::) ::) ::)

but this is 2014,not 1914 and positive earth cars havnt been made for at least 30 years so nobody cares and if someone had read that and done it.............................................
[/quote]

30 Years? more like 40 ish ;D