Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: husky12 on 20 February 2014, 00:15:54

Title: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: husky12 on 20 February 2014, 00:15:54
any one know if thers an easy way to get extra steering lock or is there a way to get a lot more lock out of it, i mean shortened hubs extended arms exc? i know how to do it on a bmw but the omega has steerin box so it will be different?
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: Nick W on 20 February 2014, 02:10:07
Extending the steering arms on the uprights, or increasing the distance between the pivots on the pitman arm and drop link will do it. However, the first isn't really viable due to their integral nature, and the second will require fabricating new parts which is a fairly major engineering exercise. Welding on steering components like these is an instant MOT failure.
You'd need to investigate just how much clearance there is for extra lock which probably isn't much. I wouldn't be surprised to find that you end up with some odd steering geometry issues.

Why do you want more lock?
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: TheBoy on 20 February 2014, 14:28:08
As said, fairly major engineering to achieve. In addition, you may have to look at the rest of the geometry, as these types of mods will pull the dynamic camber out on an Omega, leading to odd characteristics.

Is it just you lack lock generally, or are you trying to achieve something special?
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 February 2014, 14:29:54
Turning circle is circa ten meters as standard which is pretty good for a 5m long vehicle
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: TheBoy on 20 February 2014, 14:50:12
Turning circle is circa ten meters as standard which is pretty good for a 5m long vehicle
Less with TC switched off ::)

By comparison with current exec saloons, its not quite as good (though not far off). Can't say I've ever thought "I wish this Omega(s) has better lock".
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: martin42 on 20 February 2014, 18:19:41
Try driving a movano for a few days,then complain about how bad that is and how great the omega is :y
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: husky12 on 20 February 2014, 19:28:20
i just keep findin my self needing more lock wen at opposit lock, if i cut a bit out of the wish bones and strenthened them and then cut a bit off the steering lock stoopers wud that do or is the sterin box out as far as it car go? and cud you explain that first answer a bit better nat really gettin, dont care bout the way the car handles in a straight line if you know wat i mean lol
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 February 2014, 19:39:23
Extending the steering arms on the uprights, or increasing the distance between the pivots on the pitman arm and drop link will do it. However, the first isn't really viable due to their integral nature, and the second will require fabricating new parts which is a fairly major engineering exercise. Welding on steering components like these is an instant MOT failure.
You'd need to investigate just how much clearance there is for extra lock which probably isn't much. I wouldn't be surprised to find that you end up with some odd steering geometry issues.

Why do you want more lock?
Do you really want the answer to that question?
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 February 2014, 19:41:52
Opps it >:(

Perhaps you should have stuck to drifting 3 series coupes as you obviously cannot control a proper car :-X
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: martin42 on 20 February 2014, 19:50:22
Might help to buy a dictionary  ;D
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: Entwood on 20 February 2014, 19:55:45
i just keep findin my self needing more lock wen at opposit lock, if i cut a bit out of the wish bones and strenthened them and then cut a bit off the steering lock stoopers wud that do or is the sterin box out as far as it car go? and cud you explain that first answer a bit better nat really gettin, dont care bout the way the car handles in a straight line if you know wat i mean lol

Again, translation required for this simple soul... who only speaks English .. :(
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 February 2014, 20:03:57
Google translate came back with...

"Whilst sliding around carparks at ridiculous speeds, with my reverse mounted baseball cap upon my bonce, I fi nd that I need more opposite lock in some vain attempt to maintain control. Obviously lifting off slightly is not an option. How the car behaves in any other circumstance is irrelevant, as a really don't care. What do you guys think?"
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: martin42 on 20 February 2014, 20:06:33
What a waste of an omega,going around in circles,sounds like it needs a new home or a real driver to drive it in a straight line  :-X
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: Entwood on 20 February 2014, 20:08:32
Google translate came back with...

"Whilst sliding around carparks at ridiculous speeds, with my reverse mounted baseball cap upon my bonce, I fi nd that I need more opposite lock in some vain attempt to maintain control. Obviously lifting off slightly is not an option. How the car behaves in any other circumstance is irrelevant, as a really don't care. What do you guys think?"

Thanks Al ... starting to understand now ....  :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: husky12 on 20 February 2014, 20:11:24
never had a a BMW only put extra lock in BMWs for people and as far as handling it ive been drifting it for 2 years now and i just want to go more side ways and enter corners at a lot higher speed knowing that im not gonna run out of lock, wile us have made an assumption that im some teen wreckin about in a car park that fact of the matter is that it is purely drift car and im in need of serious answers so could u kindly stop wasting my time, always was an omega man always will be ;)
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 February 2014, 20:15:47
 ;D

Serious answers require serious questions.

Perhaps the Omega is not the right car for such 'malarky', given it appears to be unable to meet your demands?
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: husky12 on 20 February 2014, 20:20:58
other than steering lock its fine good power parts cheap and handy fitted what other car would compare lol i just want a bit more lock for corner entry that's all
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: Nick W on 20 February 2014, 22:27:39
i just keep findin my self needing more lock wen at opposit lock, if i cut a bit out of the wish bones and strenthened them and then cut a bit off the steering lock stoopers wud that do or is the sterin box out as far as it car go? and cud you explain that first answer a bit better nat really gettin, dont care bout the way the car handles in a straight line if you know wat i mean lol

Where to start?
I think this is what you want, having read that answer several times.

Shortening the wishbones will not affect the amount of lock that you get. If you do that, but don't shorten the trackrods the same amount you will get horrendous bump steer as both parts will be moving through different arcs. You will also find the suspension doing all sorts of odd things throughout its travel, which is unlikely to make it drive well. If it doesn't handle/steer in a straight line, how the hell are you going to control it at speed?

To get extra lock from the existing box, you need to increase the amount that the wheels are pushed out from the straight-ahead position. This is only achievable by altering the gearing inside the steering box(which simply isn't going to happen), or by increasing the leverage it exerts on the linkage. To do that, you would increase the distance between the shaft of the steering box, and the pivot for the trackrods etc. That is the Pitman arm I mentioned earlier. This would then push the steering arm on the strut through a longer distance for the same amount of rotation of the steering box, which in turn would increase the angles that the wheels turn through. The drop link on the other side would need extending the same amount, to keep the geometry the same for both sides. You would have to ensure that there is room within the wheelarches for such an increase; I doubt that you'll find much.

Unfortunately, you cannot just alter suspension and steering angles and lengths(which amounts to the same thing) willy-nilly, as everything affects everything else; sometimes very badly. You need to read some basic books on suspension theory before going any further, asking anymore questions or reading any other answers.
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: hotel21 on 20 February 2014, 22:34:50
never had a a BMW only put extra lock in BMWs for people and as far as handling it ive been drifting it for 2 years now and i just want to go more side ways and enter corners at a lot higher speed knowing that im not gonna run out of lock, wile us have made an assumption that im some teen wreckin about in a car park that fact of the matter is that it is purely drift car and im in need of serious answers so could u kindly stop wasting my time, always was an omega man always will be ;)

Can see where your coming from fella.

Get the right foot/brain/arse latitude sensor fully adjusted to your chosen car then re-assesssss

Short and dirty answer is, practice & perfect your technique.  You are not trying hard enough.

IMHO....     8)
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: husky12 on 21 February 2014, 02:14:13
lol i can handle car fine was just lookin til see if ther was any thing i could do with standerd suspention but il prob put upgraded front in as it will take a good bit of work for the rb engine to go in so i might aswell put new front end in aswell
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: chrisgixer on 21 February 2014, 05:31:43
Remove the rubber steering lock bump stop from the wishbones.
You will eventually find that the tyre hits the track rods I would of thought. If the steering box allows. The steering does bind up a bit on full lock though, so beware.
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: tidla on 21 February 2014, 09:34:39
smaller steering wheel.
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 February 2014, 09:51:43
So, simple answer.

To get more lock you need more movement from the track rods or shorter arms on the hub assembly.

More movement on the track rods would need a longer pitman arm on the steering box and a matching idler arm, it would hit issues thoguh as the rods will foul the alloy (fit the rods wrongly so the dog leg is facing the wrong way and you will soon discover this.

Shorter arms on the hub assembly may be easier as you might be able to drill an additional tapered hole (or weld and re-drill the existing one).

Changing or shortening wishbones wont help IMHO
Title: Re: extra steering lock 2.5 v6
Post by: husky12 on 21 February 2014, 16:12:03
got extra lock done, it was a big job as you all said, its a bit twichy at high speeds in a straght line but good lock into corners, thanks for all the help ;D :y