Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: jonny2112 on 24 February 2014, 22:47:05
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I have received the Stag kit and am reading through the destructions tonight as I appreciate there will be some differences to the kit I previously fitted.
I now have a few questions (what's new 😄😜)!
Firstly, it shows an electrical connection to the coil, ignition and the battery, but none to the ECU other than the lambdas. I'm guessing the coil and ignition connections are what we make at ECU rather than at the components themselves?
It also shows the filter in line prior to the pressure and temp sensor (which my old kit didn't have at all) but as the filter has two outlets and the sensor has one inlet, can the order of these be reversed?
There's no software or connection included but I think that's an oversight.
Sorry for what may be daft questions but going to get it right this time 😄 .... fingers crossed :D
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Just thinking that the sensor really should go in after the filter, and as both fuel lines are the same, then it shouldn't matter which one it's on. I think that makes sense now?
And apparently the lack of lead and software wasn't an oversight :-\
SW from the website, and I'm waiting to hear about getting a lead, though depending on the answer, I may seek to borrow / hire one here ::)
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The instructions to get the RPM signal from the coil are about 30 years out of date. If you look at the guides here it shows where to pick up the tachometer signal from the engine ECU instead (light green wire).
Software / firmware can be downloaded from www.ac.com.pl (I believe).
It's well worth investing in a lead, IMHO. Shouldn't be more than £10-20.
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4 wires into the ecu loom iirc
2 x lambda's
1 x tacho
1 x switched live
As Kevin says, its the light green wire BUT make sure you get the plug orientation right or you will get the wrong green wire and it won't work ::)
Allegedly :-X :-[
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Thanks guys, that's what I thought, and that's how I wired the old kit.
I remember trying to see the PIN numbers on the tabs in the ECU :o
Just wanted to check as I didn't have instructions last time round nor was it a Stag kit.
Just need some dry weather and a couple of free days ;D
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Had a quick look on the bay for a lead. Range from £22 - 46 ish, but then I found this 300902752260 :o :o. Surely a typo ???
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Thats one pricey seller you have found there ,John. :o
Have a look at some of the spotlight/driving lights they are selling...pair for £1500..think somebody has got a very odd price list :o
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Just a little pricey ;D
Come across a few other issues :(
1. There is a separate temp sensor which looks like it fits into the reducer (KME) but I can't see how. Though it is threaded there doesn't seem to be an opening for it on the reducer. There are two threaded openings but none fit the sensor?
2. There is also a separate cut off solenoid valve which looks like it should be fitted inline before the reducer, with in and out connections, so I'm guessing I need to break into the gas line to fit it?
3. Although a bracket thing is provided with the reducer, there does not appear to be any way of fitting it to the reducer or indeed the reducer to anything else?
4. The KME seems to have fittings of some shape or form on all sides so how can it be attached anywhere?
Just different from my last set up so struggling a little :-[
I've had a look online but can't find any fitting instructions :'(
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Temp sensor screws in top between water inlets.
Shut off valve screws in bottom.
Mounting thread is central on back. Simply drill the driverside inner wing where the aux waterpump is/was, run a threaded bar into the reducer from the wheel arch side and finish up with a lock washer and nut :y
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Temp sensor screws in top between water inlets.
Shut off valve screws in bottom.
Mounting thread is central on back. Simply drill the driverside inner wing where the aux waterpump is/was, run a threaded bar into the reducer from the wheel arch side and finish up with a lock washer and nut :y
Thanks Al, that's great.
I don't have it with me atm so I'll check in the morning but I think there is a plate affixed between the water pipes with a very obvious screw. Perhaps that covers the sensor location?
Also the valve doesn't have any threads to attach anywhere. It seems to be a standalone unit which has a backplate for fitting to a surface?
The mounting hole in the back of the reducer makes sense now though!
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This might help along side the lpg guides here...
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=kme%20reducer%20installation%20instructions&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDMQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Foldwww.kme.eu%2Fpdf%2FManualAkme-2.13_EN.pdf&ei=bTYNU6eUEIbB7Aa4mYHoDw&usg=AFQjCNEvQULKrdNS5hKcAiInzhxXnrjYkw&bvm=bv.61965928,d.ZGU
:y
No longer have my kit to hand, so working off memory, so cannot remember if the temp sensor effectively clamps the water in/outlet retaining plate, or if it uses a hole next to it :-\ definitely on top though :y
If you need any adaption fittings for things like the shut off valves/tank/pipe work then give Tinley Tech a shout :y should be able to deliver within two days :y
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Thanks again Al :y
I'm going to have another look at the components here and post up a few pics if I still can't make sense of it :-X
Oh, and £45 from supplier for the lead! No wonder it wasn't included :-\
Think I'll look elsewhere for that first.
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(http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab340/jonnyi2112/4B93ECB6-5C3D-4988-80E3-F2C8EBA0A383_zpsfjttsngw.jpg) (http://s877.photobucket.com/user/jonnyi2112/media/4B93ECB6-5C3D-4988-80E3-F2C8EBA0A383_zpsfjttsngw.jpg.html)
(http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab340/jonnyi2112/A4705332-CFF2-4085-A7ED-61671F4C7BD3_zpsctccofy9.jpg) (http://s877.photobucket.com/user/jonnyi2112/media/A4705332-CFF2-4085-A7ED-61671F4C7BD3_zpsctccofy9.jpg.html)
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Remove the brass bolt on top, insert the temp sensor there :y
Is there a threaded hole on the flat surface underneath the reducer? If so that's the gas input :y
You'll need some suitable brass fittings along the lines of:
a 90° fitting which screws into the reducer.
a threaded adaptor to connect the 'out' side of the cut off valve to the 90° fitting.
a threaded adaptor to connect the gas supply from the tank to the 'in' side of the cut off valve.
The cut off valve is then wired in parallel to the tank cut off valve.
The brass pipe on top of the reducer is the gas outlet, which generally splits at the filter for each bank of injectors.
The grey plastic pipes are coolant in/out.
The small brass tube is the vacuum connection.
Hopefully makes things clearer :y
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Al that's unbelievably helpful. Thank you very much :y
Makes sense too about the joints, though I had thought if just splitting the gas pipe and using two new fittings for the valve. If you think it would be better to have it actually joined to the reducer then that's what I'll do, and yes the gas input is on the base.
Can the fittings be got from standard plumbers merchant, or better giving Tinley a shout?
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I would go with Tinley for two reasons...
1. you can easily identify a provisional list of fittings from their online shop.
2. if you ring them to order, you can discuss exactly what you're after, and they are well placed to either confirm your requirements or amend them as needed.
Bought all my fittings and tank from them, and gladly recommend them for the above two reasons, even if they're slightly more expensive than some alternatives :y
Ideally that shut off valve needs to be as near the reducer as possible. The 90° bend allows you to face the cut off valve inlet towards the gas supply where it comes through the inner wing, as per the guide here, whilst using a solid, secure connection to the reducer :y
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Ok mate. Enough said. That's good enough for me :y
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Parts to join valve and reducer ordered :y
Have got the loom spread out on the floor to check connections, etc in advance, and have found the red/black wire for switched ignition emerges from the loom along with the wiring for the buzzer and switch panel, rather than an independent feed. This is going to create some issues in re routing it back to the car ECU.
I've also noticed that the feeds to the tank are a bit short! Cutbacks I guess :) so I'll have to extend those to run the length of the car. There is an extension with the tank level gauge which I haven't opened as yet, but not with the valve. Depending on the wiring, I may look to using the existing connections and connect it to the new loom somewhere in the engine bay instead?
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Parts to join valve and reducer ordered :y
Have got the loom spread out on the floor to check connections, etc in advance, and have found the red/black wire for switched ignition emerges from the loom along with the wiring for the buzzer and switch panel, rather than an independent feed. This is going to create some issues in re routing it back to the car ECU.
I've also noticed that the feeds to the tank are a bit short! Cutbacks I guess :) so I'll have to extend those to run the length of the car. There is an extension with the tank level gauge which I haven't opened as yet, but not with the valve. Depending on the wiring, I may look to using the existing connections and connect it to the new loom somewhere in the engine bay instead?
There's loads of cable on this. I'm sure it'll stretch from tank to engine alone.
Need to check valve wiring now to see if I can use the existing feed as an 'extension'
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Mmm.
Existing tank level gauge is the two wire type and was virtually new when I got the kit, and is black and white colour coded.
Tank valve is black and brown coded at the plug, though I'd need to remove the tape to get at the join to ensure loom colours. Stag loom is black and blue so will need correct orientation.
Would there be any issues do you think in using these existing feeds and connecting to them at the bulkhead? I wouldn't damage or shorten the new loom anyway, but might be worth a try?
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Do not remove the brass bolt... It will be too big for the temp sensor anyway.
I'm on my phone but check the orientation of the reducer... I think you'll find the water connections go at the bottom ;) The brass bolt is for draining the heavy ends.
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Do not remove the brass bolt... It will be too big for the temp sensor anyway.
I'm on my phone but check the orientation of the reducer... I think you'll find the water connections go at the bottom ;) The brass bolt is for draining the heavy ends.
Yep, you're right. I remember as it seemed counter-intuitive to me at the time, but there's something about avoiding the heavy ends settling on the liquid inlet and blocking it in the documentation, so it must be fitted with the water connections downwards. :y
Oh, and on the tank valve connections I believe blue-> Red and Black -> Black. :y
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I haven't done anything with this yet as I try to figure it all out, but the supplier also talked about the bolt being the sensor housing. So where should the sensor go?
Also, are you saying that I need to position the reducer with the water pipes facing downwards? That'll make it a little more awkward but better knowing now!
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Go with Kevin and LD on this :y
Mine was never fitted, but I had got as far as planning the engine bay, and had assumed then that the water came from the top :-[ summat learnt :y
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I was going to fit the reducer horizontally with the gas inlet to the left and the water pipes to the right. Time for a rethink :)
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Tinley fittings have arrived (great service :y) but they're a bloomin nuisance!
Getting the 90○ bend and connector together whilst holding both the valve and reducer steady is good fun! And this is only a dry run in the kitchen! What's it going to be like for real? Even worse, although the bend can be persuaded to be in a position allowing the valve to be vertical, it will not allow the back of it to be flush with the back of the reducer, for mounting purposes. It 'over rotates' when tightened, by about 45○ and I'm not convinced it could safely be encouraged through the remainder of the rotation. Not to tighten it prevents more serious problems :(
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Use another winding or two of gas proof plumbers tape :y
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Use another winding or two of gas proof plumbers tape :y
You sure? That would be really handy!
Cheers Al :y
Should have asked, can you recommend supplier?
I suppose tinley do it? Should have thought of that!
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Yup.
You're welcome.
I can.
Yup.
Yup. ::)
In that order... :y
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Yup.
You're welcome.
I can.
Yup.
Yup. ::)
In that order... :y
:D :P
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Ok, tape located and ordered re fitting.
Still haven't resolved the issue of the temp sensor at the reducer though :-\
There is a further sensor between the reducer and filter afaik, so can the other just be ignored?
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Ok, tape located and ordered re fitting.
Still haven't resolved the issue of the temp sensor at the reducer though :-\
There is a further sensor between the reducer and filter afaik, so can the other just be ignored?
58p :o :)
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No, you need a vapouriser temperature sensor as that determines when the system switches over from petrol.
Surely someone with a KME can have a look? (mine is a Voltran vap, and totally different.) :-\
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The kit supplier stated the same as Al in the first instance, as in removing the brass bolt :-\
I'll wait for further :y
LD suggested it wouldn't fit there either