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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 12 March 2014, 17:34:58

Title: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 March 2014, 17:34:58
My v6 is rebuilt with new head gaskets. Starts and idles lovely

On first start up, v loud, repetitive squeak. I was convinced it was aux belt but thought I'd run it momentarily without the aux belt on from cold to be sure.

Did that today and squeak still present with aux belt off!!

The Cambelt complete kit was fitted so its brand new (conti)

From cold, always there. Goes when it's been running a while

Properly fitted with correct tools. I've done stacks of these belts and never seen this before

Has anyone else?
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: martin42 on 12 March 2014, 17:42:25
Webby's did this aswell,and i think it was a conti kit that was fitted,Tb fitted that for him.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 March 2014, 17:46:19
Webby's did this aswell,and i think it was a conti kit that was fitted,Tb fitted that for him.

Did it sort itself out?

Removed cover and triple checked everything, all fitted fine and not rubbing.

I'm rather foxed!!
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: martin42 on 12 March 2014, 17:59:26
Its still there a bit when its cold but just about clears when warm.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 March 2014, 18:00:36
Pullsd back the cover, Sprayed a small tad of wd40 on the belt with it running. Instantly shut up and silenced it.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: tidla on 12 March 2014, 19:13:32
Pullsd back the cover, Sprayed a small tad of wd40 on the belt with it running. Instantly shut up and silenced it.

(Tell Andy its good for some things) ;D
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: ffcgary1 on 12 March 2014, 19:58:13
James, both the last 2 belts i have had on my v6 have done exactly the same thing, both where Gen GM kits and both had the printing on the belts.
Disappears aftter about 10mins.
 ???
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 March 2014, 20:16:18
Been for a 20 mile run, will see what happens in the morn :y
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: ffcgary1 on 12 March 2014, 20:19:30
mine was very loud on first start up when cold but it does eventually fade away for good. :y
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: ted_one on 12 March 2014, 20:55:08
James,cast your mind back to my 3.2 that was doing exactly the same,and you repacked the offending item with new grease and the problem was instantly solved.Dunno what you did exactly as I was doing something else,but I know you'll have it some where in your memory banks :-\ :y
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 March 2014, 22:36:07
James,cast your mind back to my 3.2 that was doing exactly the same,and you repacked the offending item with new grease and the problem was instantly solved.Dunno what you did exactly as I was doing something else,but I know you'll have it some where in your memory banks :-\ :y

I think that was you aux belt tensioner... My noise is still present with the aux belt off :) :y

Ps thanks for your PM, yes, I have 'misplaced' those!! ;D
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 March 2014, 09:53:40
Yup, mine still does it and it was set up perfectly by the maestro himself (TB)

As Martin says it's quite prominent on first start up when its cold but tends to go away when its warm.

Did you buy the same kit, James? Mine was Contitech.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 March 2014, 10:57:53
Three possibles spring to mind based on my experience

1) Loosen the five off cam cover bolts and whilst its running, move the cover up as far as you can (there is a little play) as sometimes the belt just catches ever so slightly on the cover, this often stops the noise.

2) Check the belt alignment in case an incorrert spacer is fitted on the lower idler

3) The third is the print on the belt, it can often result in a swishing noise for the frist 100 miles or so.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 March 2014, 13:48:39
Three possibles spring to mind based on my experience

1) Loosen the five off cam cover bolts and whilst its running, move the cover up as far as you can (there is a little play) as sometimes the belt just catches ever so slightly on the cover, this often stops the noise.
Yup, done this on your recommendation last time, Mark. The cambelt i believe is not touching at all.

2) Check the belt alignment in case an incorrert spacer is fitted on the lower idler
When you say alignment do you mean where the belt sits on the pulleys? If so, i noted that the belt does sit slightly further back than ''dead central'' on the pullies.

3) The third is the print on the belt, it can often result in a swishing noise for the frist 100 miles or so.
This was what i initially thought but I've put about a thousand miles on it since it was done and no change.

Goin' to be honest though I'm really not bothered about it. I know it's been set up perfectly and worst case scenario it goes again in the future and if that's the case it will give me the chance to pop the 3L cams in which I didnt do last tuime due to money and impatience  8)
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 March 2014, 19:43:53
Worse than ever, more of a scrape noise than a squeak

No evidence of anything rubbing :(
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 March 2014, 20:00:42
Worse than ever, more of a scrape noise than a squeak

No evidence of anything rubbing :(

Hmmm. Mine's definitely a squeak.... like once every revolution.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 March 2014, 21:35:06
Stripped down. Removed kit entirely. Checked rear cover seated right. Re fitted. Timed properly. Lower idler spacer correct. Noise still there. Marks suggestion re outer cover done.

Still the noise is there.

I'm at a loss!! Faulty kit??
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: ngrainqey on 13 March 2014, 22:30:06
its not just catching the aux belt crank pulley or something is it? just a thought
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: ffcgary1 on 13 March 2014, 22:38:27
Does your belt have printing on the belt james, as the noise you have is the print passing the tensioner pulley, it will get better as the belt stretches slightly and gets bit softer.
Mine took a bout 6 months to quiet down.
You know its done right so forget about it, it soon becomes less noticeable.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 07:52:21
Rub the print of the belt with a bit of wet and dry, perhaps?
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: terry paget on 14 March 2014, 08:27:08
X84GNB 2.5 petrol manual estate
I had a similar experience on above car 5 years ago.  After buying it on e-bay I changed the cam belt with a Vx kit and got a whirring noise on start up, varying with engine rpm. It worried me to death, so I changed the kit for a second Vx kit; noise  still there; not every start up, but many. The cam belt cover had been cracked, so I had repaired it with a soldering iron. I wondered if the belt or a pulley was touching the cover. I finally bought an SKF kit and fitted that. The noise stopped after that. I recently (40K miles on) changed the kit for a new SKF kit - still no noise. I never really traced the source of the noise.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: footloose on 14 March 2014, 09:20:07
Mine has been doing this for about 10000 miles since I changed the belt. I checked everything a couple of times and all seemed ok so I have just put up with it. It only lasted for a few minutes and was gone. I thought that perhaps being the belt has some quite acute angles it may be just the belt when cold took a while to warm up and settle down.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: terry paget on 14 March 2014, 11:17:53
I'd be tempted to put the old belt back on the new pulleys. That would test some theories.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 20 March 2014, 17:57:12
800 miles later. Exactly the same. There has got to be something wrong.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: robson on 21 March 2014, 08:10:21
What chance have  we got on this problem when the king of cam belts has a problem. As far as the marking on the belt will it rub off with a bit of meths or something stonger, The suggestion to put the old belt on the new pulleys seems a good idea to narrow down the problem. Its this type of niggle that drives you mad hope you solve it soon.Did you change the water pump as well?
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 March 2014, 08:18:11
I fitted a conti kit to mine last weekend. Got one feint squeak on start-up and it's been silent since. Must have about 400 miles on it now. :-\

At least, by now, if it has been rubbing, it'll have generated some visible evidence.

I think I'd be checking the pulley alignment carefully in case you have been given a poorly machined backplate or spacer.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: robson on 22 March 2014, 10:45:08
Sorry James but the water pump is irrelevant if you ran without the auxillary belt. Have you got any further with the problem
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 25 March 2014, 17:14:14
Sorry for late update...

NO further forward. I have removed the cambelt kit again (!) visually checked everything, no sign of any rubbing, all aligned and tensioned fine

Squeak has been getting progressively worse and is now slightly audible when fully up to temp whereas it was silent when hot

Re set up again, textbook Cambelt install, same issue prevalent

If I'm honest I'm a bit fed up with it. I can only presume faulty kit?

The kit came from euro parts. I probably have the reciept but not the box/packaging

I guess proving its faulty, proving it was fitted correctly, and getting an exchange will prove more difficult than its worth!!

Bah. Guinness please.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 March 2014, 17:34:08
Did you note if the lettering was still painted on?
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 25 March 2014, 17:39:16
Did you note if the lettering was still painted on?

Yep like new

But no different to hundreds of other conti kits we have all fitted :(
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 25 March 2014, 17:41:53
When you've taken it off, I presume that the pulleys all spin freely and quietly by hand?  ::)

I know it's teaching Granny to suck eggs...... but...  ;)  :D
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Kevin Wood on 25 March 2014, 17:44:05
Did you try running it with the cover off? Might have been easier to locate the source of the noise?
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 25 March 2014, 17:45:51
Tigger, all input welcome :y but pulleys are fine :y

Kevin, no, maybe next step :y
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 March 2014, 17:47:35
The weird thing is mine has started doing it at random times lol normally it would act up and be quite loud when its cold. but its started doing it warm too. but is intermittent.

Swap it for a Vx one if it's bugging you. I'll put up with mine though  ;D
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 25 March 2014, 17:53:36
Have you tried the WD40 again?  ???

Maybe run with cover off as Kevin suggests with WD can at the ready?  :-\
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 March 2014, 17:56:56
I ran it with the cover off and the bagpipes out etc but I found I couldn't hear it.... only cos it was soo bloody loud with the bagpipes removed  ;D
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: ffcgary1 on 25 March 2014, 18:02:59
i would love to find out without doubt what it is, but mine does not do it any more, nice and quite, but i can only put it down to the printing on the belt. :-\
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: robson on 26 March 2014, 16:01:28
James you are welcome to the bits you took off my car if you want to check if its  your  kit thats wrong .No good for long term but may help to diagnose the problem
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: gstylebaby on 27 March 2014, 20:39:09
Mine does the same thing and Elite Pete checked mine over and sprayed wd40 on and it disappeared only to return when it first starts up but goes after a few mins I just live with it to be honest.  Mine was a conti kit the kit I used on the saloon I have was a gates kit and there was no issue with that at all.  If you have the receipt for Euro parts take it back mate I have just taken back a faulty diss pack and I didn't have the packaging so long as you have the receipt they will change it that's what I got told and I had the diss pack on for 9 months.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: terry paget on 30 March 2014, 21:16:38
It sounds to me like the belt is squeaking on the pulleys. The belt is constantly rubbing on the guide flanges of the pulleys as it runs around. this should be silent, usually is, but, either because of different belt material of misalignment of pulleys, it squeaks when cold. A dash of lubricant (WD40) temporarily cures it, but as it dries out the squeak returns.
Replacing the old belt would tell you which of the two is occurring.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Elmstoneboy on 03 April 2014, 00:12:20

Is this the sound you are talking about, or have I got a problem???

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpva8dtm7lnysnd/Voice%20006.3ga
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Andy A on 03 April 2014, 07:41:13
I was just about to order the Conti cambelt kit for my Omega 2.2 petrol 2003 untill I read this. Anyone tell me where I can order the Gates belt to instead?

Thanks
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: terry paget on 03 April 2014, 07:45:38
It's nothing like the sound I had. Mine was a constant 'whirring' sound, varying with rpm. But this is not my thread. Others may say it is exactly how their engines sound!
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: terry paget on 03 April 2014, 07:51:29
I was just about to order the Conti cambelt kit for my Omega 2.2 petrol 2003 untill I read this. Anyone tell me where I can order the Gates belt to instead?

Thanks
I bought an SKF belt kit for my 2.0 at Euro parts Whitby Road three weeks ago. No trouble there. I am not aware of any strange noise problems with belts on 4 pot Omegas. Euro parts are cheapest if you order on line and then collect - click and collect.
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 April 2014, 09:59:36
I cant play that sound / video link. If you can post it up in a different format i'll tell you if its like mine.

I can say though that mines not a constant whirring and mine disappears as you increase RPM. Mine is simply a squeak that sounds almost exactly like this (ignore the fact that this is a drive belt video and not a cambelt sound)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF3W-vHPYHg
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Andy A on 03 April 2014, 11:55:12
Can anyone confirm that the Conti belt kit is at fault and could be a bad batch?
I was going to buy a Conti kit thismorning untill I read this. Know I don't know what to buy.

Thanks
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2014, 11:58:02
Can anyone confirm that the Conti belt kit is at fault and could be a bad batch?
I was going to buy a Conti kit thismorning untill I read this. Know I don't know what to buy.

Thanks

This is for a V6, that said' i've just ordered a Conti kit for my 2.2.

Shall let you know if we have same problems  :)
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 03 April 2014, 12:32:54
I had a Conti kit supplied by ByPartsBy and fitted by James about 6 weeks ago with no problems!  :y
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: Andy A on 03 April 2014, 13:20:25
Thanks tunnie. I wait to see how yours goes.   :y
Title: Re: Strange v6 Cambelt squeak
Post by: terry paget on 15 April 2014, 18:02:45
I reckon it's the belt edges rubbing on the two flanged central pulley. The other pulleys are one flanged. I attach a pic of the central pulley I stripped for spares. Belt has only been on for 5000 miles. You will see inner half of pulley is a bit blackened, and there is black dust behing the pulley. This was an SKF kit, it made no noise.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4yz88jcevtv3bk4/camBELTpulley40%25.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4yz88jcevtv3bk4/camBELTpulley40%25.jpg)