Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: leebron on 23 March 2014, 15:49:16
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Hi. My opel omega 2.2 doesnt start. Started with bad idle rpm and blurry and died 2times. And now it doesnt start at all.
Fully working battery.
Smell gas and i hear the gas pump.
Found oil in spark plugs. (replaced rocker gasket removed all oil and installed new spark plugs.
The ignition coil works, i get spark on all plugs.
The car tries to start but doesnt get ignition.
Had some problems 6months ago. A new cam sensor (orginal at vauxhall garage) fixed it. (got fault code on egr, cam, throttle body). Car did start sometimes and in limp mode. This feels diffrent.
No codes stored. And iam out of ideas.
Could it be crank sensor or cleaning thottlebody?
Shouldnt i get error codes.
Best regards. Got alot of help last time with cam sensor. (the vauxhallgarage adviced new egr and ecu, u guys gave better advice)
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Just to clarify;
The car doesnt fire. The alternator works and battery is good.
What can cause the car not to start and doesnt give any fault codes or lights on dash?
Crankshaft sensor? Maf sensor? Throttle Body? EGR? Fuel rail? Which pipe can i check that i get fuel to the ignition coil.
Iam not a mechanic and not sure where to look, but the cars is automatgear and i have no good garage nearby.
The car did start very badly 2-3 times first and now not all. (thats why iam guessing fuelproblem).
Cam sensor replacement was 6moths ago. (GM/vauxall) at opel garage.
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Cam sensor can fail, the car will still start. Take a lot of cranking, but will fire. Crank sensor should give a code :-\
Sorry for the basic question and double check, but you have not lost the immobiliser chip in the key have you?
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thx for reply.
no the key has it fob chip and no eml light blinking in dash.
cam sensor is new (gm part). last time i had camsensor fault it did start sometimes and in limp mode.
Can the ignition coil give spark but still be bad?
Can someone point out where i easily can check that fuel is coming from tank to engine. through pump and filter.
Just to determinate if i really get gasfuel to engine. I removed one spark plug and looked into the hole while cranking couldnt see any fuel coming. (maybe that isnt possible to see?)
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Saloon or estate?
How much fuel in it? Is the car level?
Give the tank a thump whilst an assistant tries to start it... Might be a duff pump given the lack of codes :-\
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Its estate. Tank is full.
I Will have a look at the pump. Tought i heard the pump while turning key, but not so sure. Where is the pump? In the trunk/lugage? Will ask some one To turn key while listening
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Stand behind the towing eye cover, put your foot as far under the car as possible and kick your toes up as someone starts the car...
If you look under the car there you will see a round shape moulded into the tank... This is where the pump is and roughly were you need to thump :y
Another thought has crossed my mind... It's not full of diesel is it :-\
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update.
i have measure 12v on cable at fuel pump. no sound or activity in pump while turning key.
no fuel at nipple near pressure regulator.
will take out the pump tomorrow and look for a new or used one.
regards.
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Giving it a thump might persuade it to start :y
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Giving it a thump might persuade it to start :y
^ +1
Also check relay's and fuses to make sure all is correct and working!
I had issues with my 2.2's coil pack recently, it gave me cold starting issues and really bad idle. When you removed coil pack to test it did you check all of the rubber tubes were intact and no white marks on them??? mine went for ages with the coil pack arcing to the head before it put the eml on ... when eml did finally come on I couldn't drive it.
Check also the fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose is still on. I have heard rumours that this can cause running and starting issues if not fitted to the fuel pressure regulator .... there is also a vacuum hose on the bottom left of the throttle body, if not on/damaged that can cause issues with starting and general running !
If you think that there is no fuel getting to the engine, undo the fuel feed to the injector rail and get someone to turn the key while the pipe is in a jar ... that will give you a definite answer as to whether fuel is getting as far as the injectors!
As far as bad coil pack / damaged plug tubes goes, it's possible for that not to throw a code (it's happened to me before) but it's not common
Hope that helps some :y
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Iam going try give it a kick the fuel tank.
If that doesnt work, i will disassemble the fuel pump from tank and try connect it directly to battery.
Dont think relay as i get 12v to pump when key is turn.
The coil rubber plugs are fine and no cables loose. And i have sparks on plugs.
Is there anyting else that can stop the pump from working besides relay and ecu?
Will test some more when i get home today. The car has been working in cold condition -20 so i just think its the fuel problem.
Thanks for the replies.
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Tested if it comes fuel here from injector rail.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/15pqwat.jpg)
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Are the plugs wet with fuel when you remove them, especially with it having a spark but not firing ???
If they are still totally dry after cranking and and getting a spark, to me, that would suggest gummed up injectors maybe ???
Have you checked that the fuel "pumps" as far as the rail though ??? That valve there is for pressure release (like a bicycle valve) and the rail does hold pressure ... If you're using that valve to test you are best to see if , after releasing all the rail pressure it regains it's pressure and releases fuel again! I would still pull the feed pipe off to see if it flows correctly from the pump (you only need 2 spanners and it's a fast job honest) ???
I wouldn't worry too much about the temperature that you were using the car in as this is very unlikely to freeze petrol ... Petrol is usually good without freezing until you get down to -40 to -60 degrees c, Diesel on the other hand is totally different and you can get problem of waxing at around -15 degrees and would need some additives if you intended using diesel anywhere near -20 degrees!
Lastly if everything seems O.k just make sure you haven't topped it up with diesel by mistake (you would tell straight away by smelling fuel you drain off ... it really does stink nasty) ! If it's full of diesel you will never get it going without flushing the fuel tank ::)
So to summarise ... Check that fuel pumps correctly by removing the feed pipe and that flow is good, Check after trying to start the car a few times if the spark plugs are wet with fuel (it's the easiest way to tell if you have fuel feed into the engine) and Be 100% sure there is no diesel fuel in it!
Only other things I know of to check is the crank sensor (this can stop starting the engine) but it's not common for it not to put the engine light on, the above issue with a failed cam sensor (non GM camshaft sensors are useless and fail rapidly) and maybe an immobiliser fault but then you would have no spark !
Hope that gives you a bit more of an idea :y
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thanks for the replies.
i have removed pipes from the fuel pump and turn the key, there was no fuel coming from the fuel pump.
so i guess its the fuel pump as there is no activity from it.
as the tank is full with fuel(not diesel).
how do i get the fuel pump up from tank?
the pump is 15cm under fuel level. how is mounted? should i empty the tank approx 20l from fuel first?
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Haynes is spot on, just wear a pair of elbow length gloves... :y
Before you get stuck in check fuse 18...
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Fuel pump testes directly to battery and works. Reinstalled it back.
And measure 3.5v at key position 2, 12v when cranking.
Guess fuel pump works atleast(or badly).
Gonna test realease fuelpipe before fuel regulator. See if it comes fuel there.
Gonna test if it comes fuel before and after fuel filter.
Have switch places with fuel relay.
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* Fues relay clicks.
* No fuel at feederpipe at pressure regulator.
* pump works with seperate battery and sometime with the cars contact.
* pressure from pump seems good tested in water.
I think the fuel gets stuck in filter. It might be clogged.
Gonna replace with new filter today.
Just confused why it not always works with cars wired plug. (Maybe it works better now) time Will tell after switching fuel filter.
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Have replaced fuel relay.
Have changed fuel filter.
Tried forcing pump on 12v from other battery.
I hear the pump working but i Get no fuel at feeder pipe to fuel pressure rail. ?
Wtf? Could the fuel pipe be that clogged after filter some where?
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Generally the fuel pump will activate to pressurize the system, then it will look for a rpm signal from the crank sensor..
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Have you tried removing the fuel pipe from the outlet side of the filter,fit some suitable size rubber tubing which can go into a bottle so you can see if there is any fuel flow at all when pump is primed?
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The pump works in a bucket of water.
It works in the petroltank with key, but just to be sure its not som sensor blocking it i have connected it to an 12v external battery.
New filter. So that isnt blocking.
But i get no fuel at feedpipe to injektor rail.
I will now remove the new filter and try blowing air through the pipes to see if something is blocking the full fuel rail.
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Looks like you are making good progress on this ... I'm interested to see what the problem turns out to be
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Iam blowing with a smaller kompressor in feedpipe back through the car without filter in.
It comes out oil? Now iam seriously worried?
Can oil from engine get out to fuel rail?
Have to get me a new pump. It was working, but suddently it died...
Maybe the pump was the problem afterall.
Feels like beginning all over again when i saw oil.
Tried engine starter can sprayed in throttlebody. Car Didnt start with that either. :(
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Not oil just really black carbon fuel. Guess previously owner hasnt replaced filter for along time.
I now get nice clear fuel at feed pipe at fuel Rail.
The car still dont start. Pump is working now.(didnt for awhile probably because clogged pipe somewhere.
So.
New relay
New filter
No clogged fuel pipe.
Working pump.
Spark at new plugs(tested all of them)
No error codes.
So next.
Dirty injectors?
Low pressure from pump or regulator? (Test tomorrow)
What pressure should it be? 2-3bar?
I feel like Engine almost want To start when i turn on/off key 3-4 Times before cranking To get more fuelpressure.
Could still be cranksensor. (But have no codes pointing)
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Could be camshaft position sensor I guess ... Injectors "could" be blocked if it's dragged a load of dirt through! Check the vacuum pipe to the fuel pressure regulator also, if it's damaged I guess that could cause issues with fuel pressure ???
From what I know of cam / crank sensor faults the engine will just turn and turn, maybe even backfire! Have you checked if the plugs are wet with fuel after a few turns of the engine? If they are this (in my opinion) is indicative of a sensor fault! Even if no fault code is presenting ! What I have learned recently, through this forum, is that the engine will try to fire at the wrong part of the cycle with a sensor fault. This in turn can cause a failure to start ... even backfiring in some cases!
Please correct me if I'm wrong! I must say I admire your perseverance in finding this fault :y
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2.2 petrol will fire and start, even with cam sensor disconnected. Just take a lot of cranking. Can't see it being injectors, should give a code for one, or at least start and maybe miss on one if that is the case.
I still find it odd that there are no codes, there should be some. What code reader are you using?
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Bought a cheap full pressure tester. (Stupid) it didnt match the fuel guage pressure test.
I thought what the hell i tried comnected it directly on feed pipe.
The pump gave high pressure and suddently died. (Stupid?) i might killed the fuel pump?
But then i tried crank the Engine without pump connected and it fired, the car Started!!! And then it ofcourse died without more fuel.
Could it been pressure regulator or bad pump?
I tried blowing/sucktion on fuel regulator. Dont know if that was solution.
Have to find me a new pump.
No i dont get any codes. (Opel obd2) something. I get live data and have get codes earlier at fault codes same as on garage. (So i do trust it)
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Update. Really need advice now! Iam out of ideas.
Okay. New fuel pump Didnt make any diffrent.
I have fuel at sparkplugs they are wet when i pull them up.
Smell petrol. But why dont the car fire.
No codes.
Could it be timing belt?
By why would it that suddently be the issue? The car was fine all day and parked at house and suddently Didnt want to start.
Replaced.
*relay
*fuelpump
*filter fuel
*spark plugs
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Failed fuel pressure regulator?
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Failed fuel pressure regulator?
As in car gets to much fuel?
The sparkplugs are wet so it get fuel atleast.
Could pressure reg.. Really make the car not start?
I would love a code right now.
What makes cam sensor error so Often on 2.2.
It was replaced 4months ago at opel genuine garage.
I have 1 year warranty. But cant demand a new one as iam deffinitly not sure thats the fault.
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If the regulator jams shut then that would force all the fuel through the injectors causing them to flood.
Try pulling fuse 18 and try starting it. If my thinking is sound, then it should start to prove the fault... Failed ecu temp sensor has a similar effect but that will throw a code :-\
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If the regulator jams shut then that would force all the fuel through the injectors causing them to flood.
Try pulling fuse 18 and try starting it. If my thinking is sound, then it should start to prove the fault... Failed ecu temp sensor has a similar effect but that will throw a code :-\
I pulled 18 (pump fuse) n the car fired up again. Jay! ;)
Finally some hope again.
As the car oviously gets flooded now.
What is most likely causing this?
Injectors not closing? ( cleaning or bad ecu?) (i have a spare working ecu)
Jammed pressure regulator?
I consider remove injector rail with injectors to se how the operate. Guess i could connect Them to 1,5 battery for just test opened closing movement and clean Them up.
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Given the lack of codes, I would start with the pressure regulator :y
Cheap enough and easy enough to swap out :y
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Given the lack of codes, I would start with the pressure regulator :y
Cheap enough and easy enough to swap out :y
An new pressue regulator at opel Garage here in norway is 170gbp "insane" iknow!
Order a used regulator+rail+4injectors from ebay gm genuine for 45gbp instead.
Bad injectors leaking defective will not give codes aswell. (Only short circuit)
1 week waiting for update! :)
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Fingers crossed :y
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Problem fixed!!!
The car now runs normal again.
Think it was alot of diffrent fault causing this. (no codes)
Summary:
Car didnt get fuel but spark.
New pump, new fuelfilter cleaned fuel lines.
Car got fuel spark but too much fuel.
new fuelrail, injectors, and pressure regulator.
And now the car is normal again!
Think it was the fuel regulator causing this.
Probably because of bad fuelfilter. The filter at fuel regulator was pretty clogged.
Thanks for all replies!
Regards!
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Nice one :y
It's niggles like that which drive you mad...