Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: cd 2.2 on 30 March 2014, 03:26:10
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Today I went a little crazy and blew £349 including VAT at the local motor factors (about the only one I trust in the area as they are fairly good)! My 349 finest english pounds bought me the following things (at trade price) ...
New Camshaft Sensor
Catalytic converter
Catalytic converter to manifold gasket
A pair of MOOG front wishbones
Apec front discs and matching pads
2ltr of brake fluid
Now I never heard of MOOG car parts in this country until today, If the wishbones last me 12 months I will be happy with them for the price. They carry a standard 12 months warranty and if they break within this period I'm told that they will replace them for free so that's something!
I couldn't start work on the car until 4pm, shame because it's been a wonderful day for messing with the car. I only managed to get the N/S wishbone and brake disc/pads changed before I called it a day because of darkness issues! I will do the other side in the morning and see if there is any kind of monumental change in handling!
I did notice after I had changed the wishbone and brakes on the passenger side of the car the steering wheel is over to the left and the car seems to want to pull right, tested it first on the drive after I got the front wishbone bolt tightened up on the ground, then took it around the block (just literally 1 tenth of a mile) ! I think I have massively upset the geometry on that front corner as it doesn't feel quite as it should, but we will see in the afternoon if completing the other side see's any further improvement/worsening of it ... got to get the front geometry done anyway!
So yes I have been a very busy bee today and will be tomorrow also :y
not looking forward to tackling the rear brakes after I have the locking wheel bolts air chiseled off >:(
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Busy boy indeed :y
If the sensor wasn't a genuine one, expect to be changing it again soon :-X
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Today I went a little crazy and blew £349
I bough a Pug 106 for less than that ;D Didnt last long though ::)
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Busy boy indeed :y
If the sensor wasn't a genuine one, expect to be changing it again soon :-X
And also the cat' needs to be a genuine one. Just put my old GM one back on, with new flexi, after less than 2 years use of a pattern one >:(
When taken off, the pattern one had a cricket ball sized piece of honeycomb inside it ??? which had been rattling around for ages. Checked the silencers for bits of cat and found none so presumed the cat had actually melted down to that size :o.
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Oh dear. Pattern cat, they sound dreadful! Better off with second hand breaker off here. Far better quality and sound :y
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Today I went a little crazy and blew £349
I bough a Pug 106 for less than that ;D Didnt last long though ::)
you was robbed... ;D
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Cd 2.2 keep mentioning pattern parts and the genuine police will come round and burn you on a winter tyre cross ;D :D
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In addition to the cat problem, I wouldn't expect the Apec discs to last the warranty period if driven "properly".
MOOG wishbones, never heard of them either. I'd expect replacement of any part that doesn't last the warranty period, but remember the bulk of the cost is in the alignment costs afterwards, which won't be covered.
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Well this time is a needs must with the pattern parts! I couldn't afford all this at genuine prices :(
If I get a year out of them I will be happy enough, As for the cat, well it's got to sound better than it does now! It's not always an option to wait around for the right second hand or genuine item. I need the car daily so I don't have much options open at the moment.
It's a non genuine sensor unfortunately so as you said Al I will be changing it again soon for sure, but it should hopefully stop the starting issues and backfiring for a while until I get a genuine part ::)
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But you'll have to end up with the genuine items anyway at some point.
I hear what your saying on the bill but as long as your aware that some might say, this has been a waste of time and money.
I wish I had the time and money, and the passion for working on cars continuously, to fit pattern parts that last, say, a fifth of the life of genuine parts. At a lot more than a fifth of the cost. If that makes sense?
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Moog
http://www.moogproducts.com/en-global/Pages/ecatalogue.aspx?VehicleSearch/en/Moog/pc#
Historically, re wishbones. Gm, lemforder and possibly Meyle (we've had Meyle bushes but not the complete wishbones) have been reasonable acceptable on life. Anything else has been suspect to say the least. Some have had reasonable life out of pattern wishbones but others haven't from the same part. So a gamble at best.
Add in set up costs and tyre wear if they fail early, pattern parts can often prove to be much more expensive.
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cd2.2, good luck with it anyway, report back in a few months how well items lasted, so we know what works and what doesn't.
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I will be sure to report on the situation in say 6 months! I'm sure most of the parts will last 12 - 24 months but only the cruelty that is time will tell!
I know we all need to find good pattern parts suppliers if we intend our cars to last way into the future as GM will pull parts support at some point, that is a sure thing to happen
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Sadly people take advice of genuine and turn it into stupid games, rather pathetic really. (not you cd 2.2) The reason for that advice, which many others will also duplicate, is I've heard 2.2's with a pattern cat. Terrible! They are cheaply made compared to GM's and make so much noise.
Far better to get one from a breaker here, for fraction of the cost of brand new pattern, which will last longer too :y
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I was considering a used one first off ... everyone seems to be miles and miles away from where I am ::) The only other problem was if I were to get it delivered it would be even more time off the road :(
I went for a non type approved one (I know you shouldn't) as it was £108 including VAT and a £12 surcharge, Total eventual cost is only £96! I was assured that it was a good quality cat, but as usual I am very dubious and I will know for sure when I get it on the car tomorrow afternoon (if it even fits properly). For me I would rather decat it but I know you can't for several reasons A] It's illegal due to the age of the car, B] It would never pass an mot and C] the ECU would have a panic attack
If it sounds like utter cr*p then I will be taking it straight off and fitting a used/genuine one for sure!
The Apec brakes feel o.k on the pedal and they certainly stop the car reasonably but I expect that I will burn through them quickly, this is mostly to do with my driving style. As my brother says I have one speed on all roads and it's usually around the speed limit and I don't slow down enough in corners ;D I also get through tyres quite quickly but the firestone fuel savers I have on the fronts are lasting well at 2k on them now, The rear accelera alpha's on the rear are extremely close to their limit now and they had plenty on them when I got it (also around 2k miles ago) ... I love how well this car corners, endless grip in the dry but totally sideways in the wet :y
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I suspect the cat maybe ok to start with, but will quickly break down :)
No experience of Apec brakes, it's a heavy car, but 2.2 lacks power to be doing lots of heavy stopping. Tyres, all down to driving style really and what you want for the money. Otherwise it's an endless discussion, as previous threads will show ;D
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I was considering a used one first off ... everyone seems to be miles and miles away from where I am ::) The only other problem was if I were to get it delivered it would be even more time off the road :(
I went for a non type approved one (I know you shouldn't) as it was £108 including VAT and a £12 surcharge, Total eventual cost is only £96! I was assured that it was a good quality cat, but as usual I am very dubious and I will know for sure when I get it on the car tomorrow afternoon (if it even fits properly). For me I would rather decat it but I know you can't for several reasons A] It's illegal due to the age of the car, B] It would never pass an mot and C] the ECU would have a panic attack
If it sounds like utter cr*p then I will be taking it straight off and fitting a used/genuine one for sure!
The Apec brakes feel o.k on the pedal and they certainly stop the car reasonably but I expect that I will burn through them quickly, this is mostly to do with my driving style. As my brother says I have one speed on all roads and it's usually around the speed limit and I don't slow down enough in corners ;D I also get through tyres quite quickly but the firestone fuel savers I have on the fronts are lasting well at 2k on them now, The rear accelera alpha's on the rear are extremely close to their limit now and they had plenty on them when I got it (also around 2k miles ago) ... I love how well this car corners, endless grip in the dry but totally sideways in the wet :y
So is a non type approved cat. Any MOT tester worth his salt will fail it
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It's not an endless discussion at all.
Just ask what's considered best buy at the time. And ignore any posts about euro bloody car parts.
Seemples.
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Oh dear. Pattern cat, they sound dreadful! Better off with second hand breaker off here. Far better quality and sound :y
I put a pattern cat on the 2.2 roughly 2 years ago almost, Around £200 fitted and it's been fine (touch wood) Sound, Can't say I've noticed any difference TBH .. Although I don't do a lot of miles probably only a few thousand on the new cat, The 2.2 is more of a backup car now mind..
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I was considering a used one first off ... everyone seems to be miles and miles away from where I am ::) The only other problem was if I were to get it delivered it would be even more time off the road :(
I went for a non type approved one (I know you shouldn't) as it was £108 including VAT and a £12 surcharge, Total eventual cost is only £96! I was assured that it was a good quality cat, but as usual I am very dubious and I will know for sure when I get it on the car tomorrow afternoon (if it even fits properly). For me I would rather decat it but I know you can't for several reasons A] It's illegal due to the age of the car, B] It would never pass an mot and C] the ECU would have a panic attack
If it sounds like utter cr*p then I will be taking it straight off and fitting a used/genuine one for sure!
The Apec brakes feel o.k on the pedal and they certainly stop the car reasonably but I expect that I will burn through them quickly, this is mostly to do with my driving style. As my brother says I have one speed on all roads and it's usually around the speed limit and I don't slow down enough in corners ;D I also get through tyres quite quickly but the firestone fuel savers I have on the fronts are lasting well at 2k on them now, The rear accelera alpha's on the rear are extremely close to their limit now and they had plenty on them when I got it (also around 2k miles ago) ... I love how well this car corners, endless grip in the dry but totally sideways in the wet :y
So is a non type approved cat. Any MOT tester worth his salt will fail it
If it passes emissions test, i dont see why he should :-\
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I was considering a used one first off ... everyone seems to be miles and miles away from where I am ::) The only other problem was if I were to get it delivered it would be even more time off the road :(
I went for a non type approved one (I know you shouldn't) as it was £108 including VAT and a £12 surcharge, Total eventual cost is only £96! I was assured that it was a good quality cat, but as usual I am very dubious and I will know for sure when I get it on the car tomorrow afternoon (if it even fits properly). For me I would rather decat it but I know you can't for several reasons A] It's illegal due to the age of the car, B] It would never pass an mot and C] the ECU would have a panic attack
If it sounds like utter cr*p then I will be taking it straight off and fitting a used/genuine one for sure!
The Apec brakes feel o.k on the pedal and they certainly stop the car reasonably but I expect that I will burn through them quickly, this is mostly to do with my driving style. As my brother says I have one speed on all roads and it's usually around the speed limit and I don't slow down enough in corners ;D I also get through tyres quite quickly but the firestone fuel savers I have on the fronts are lasting well at 2k on them now, The rear accelera alpha's on the rear are extremely close to their limit now and they had plenty on them when I got it (also around 2k miles ago) ... I love how well this car corners, endless grip in the dry but totally sideways in the wet :y
So is a non type approved cat. Any MOT tester worth his salt will fail it
If it passes emissions test, i dont see why he should :-\
Agreed, but it`s illegal to fit a non type approved cat to cars post March 1st `01
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I was considering a used one first off ... everyone seems to be miles and miles away from where I am ::) The only other problem was if I were to get it delivered it would be even more time off the road :(
I went for a non type approved one (I know you shouldn't) as it was £108 including VAT and a £12 surcharge, Total eventual cost is only £96! I was assured that it was a good quality cat, but as usual I am very dubious and I will know for sure when I get it on the car tomorrow afternoon (if it even fits properly). For me I would rather decat it but I know you can't for several reasons A] It's illegal due to the age of the car, B] It would never pass an mot and C] the ECU would have a panic attack
If it sounds like utter cr*p then I will be taking it straight off and fitting a used/genuine one for sure!
The Apec brakes feel o.k on the pedal and they certainly stop the car reasonably but I expect that I will burn through them quickly, this is mostly to do with my driving style. As my brother says I have one speed on all roads and it's usually around the speed limit and I don't slow down enough in corners ;D I also get through tyres quite quickly but the firestone fuel savers I have on the fronts are lasting well at 2k on them now, The rear accelera alpha's on the rear are extremely close to their limit now and they had plenty on them when I got it (also around 2k miles ago) ... I love how well this car corners, endless grip in the dry but totally sideways in the wet :y
So is a non type approved cat. Any MOT tester worth his salt will fail it
If it passes emissions test, i dont see why he should :-\
Agreed, but it`s illegal to fit a non type approved cat to cars post March 1st `01
It is but I don't know how it could be policed,I fitted two golf cats recently,one older non type approved and the other a newer type approved,they looked identical bar the price :-X
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we will see what happens on test day in july with the cat, Both front sides are now back together and I have a few comments on the things I have fitted!
The brakes ... Well I can sure as hell say they stop the car, as this is important so you avoid death I think they serve the purpose well! They don't feel as sharp as the EBC red stuff pads that my dad for some reason fitted to his 2.2. But after flushing all of the dead and very green brake fluid out of the system they are a massive improvement to what was already fitted (not even bedded in yet either) !
The front wishbones ... Although a total PITA to get lined up at the rear bush, they fit extremely well to the car and didn't pose any kind of issue as far as fit is concerned. The car now feels like it's attached to the road and the steering feels as it should! I'm happy with them for now, we will see how they go long term (I'm not saying how much they cost yet as I might get hung, drawn and quartered for buying them in the first place ::) )
I have yet to fit the cat and camshaft sensor, I will be collecting them in the morning also the obligatory trip to the Vx dealer to collect the gearbox cooler seal O rings I have waited 2 weeks for (all this technology and it takes 2 weeks to post something from Germany Land)!
I think I have broken the front end Geometry in some way as the car isn't behaving as you wou would expect it to ... It's driving in a straight line no issue, the steering wheel has turned to the left slightly, It seems to have the urge to pull left ever so slightly and it pulls left if you brake hard! I'm presuming the tracking is off a smidge and the camber is wrong slightly on one or both sides ::) It's really unavoidable doing this kind of work and I'm letting the professionals sort this problem out on Tuesday!
So really it seems a case of, so far, so good :) Just a shame I have to get the rear wheels murdered to get the rear discs changed due to the locking wheel nuts being fubar
I was considering a used one first off ... everyone seems to be miles and miles away from where I am ::) The only other problem was if I were to get it delivered it would be even more time off the road :(
I went for a non type approved one (I know you shouldn't) as it was £108 including VAT and a £12 surcharge, Total eventual cost is only £96! I was assured that it was a good quality cat, but as usual I am very dubious and I will know for sure when I get it on the car tomorrow afternoon (if it even fits properly). For me I would rather decat it but I know you can't for several reasons A] It's illegal due to the age of the car, B] It would never pass an mot and C] the ECU would have a panic attack
If it sounds like utter cr*p then I will be taking it straight off and fitting a used/genuine one for sure!
The Apec brakes feel o.k on the pedal and they certainly stop the car reasonably but I expect that I will burn through them quickly, this is mostly to do with my driving style. As my brother says I have one speed on all roads and it's usually around the speed limit and I don't slow down enough in corners ;D I also get through tyres quite quickly but the firestone fuel savers I have on the fronts are lasting well at 2k on them now, The rear accelera alpha's on the rear are extremely close to their limit now and they had plenty on them when I got it (also around 2k miles ago) ... I love how well this car corners, endless grip in the dry but totally sideways in the wet :y
So is a non type approved cat. Any MOT tester worth his salt will fail it
If it passes emissions test, i dont see why he should :-\
Agreed, but it`s illegal to fit a non type approved cat to cars post March 1st `01
It is but I don't know how it could be policed,I fitted two golf cats recently,one older non type approved and the other a newer type approved,they looked identical bar the price :-X
£179 including vat for type approved, £108 including vat for non type approved including also a £12 refundable surcharge on the non type approved cat making it £96 all in :-X you do the math ;) :-X
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I think I have broken the front end Geometry in some way as the car isn't behaving as you wou would expect it to ... It's driving in a straight line no issue, the steering wheel has turned to the left slightly, It seems to have the urge to pull left ever so slightly and it pulls left if you brake hard!
If it does so predictably, check the wishbone bolts are correctly torqued. If they are, sounds like the bushes didn't last the warranty period ::)
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As always, when recommending parts to others. It's utterly pointless doing so until the life of the part is spent, so all aspects can be passed on to others.
Before you take the car for set up, do yourself a favour and check the wishbone bushes haven't failed already. (and that the steering idles has zero vertical play. And I do mean Zero. As anyone here will tell you that's had a failed idler.)
How did you tighten the wishbone bolts? And don't say "with a spanner" ;D
Edit, TB Has spotted it already.
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Tightened bolts with a torque wrench as you should do! The front bolts were tightened when the car was on the floor ... there doesn't seem to be any play is the wishbones at all I already checked all of the bushes for breakage / abnormal wear and damage of any kind ... They thankfully look fine :)
I'm not sure how to go about checking the steering idler for play as it's a system I'm not familiar with to be quite honest ::)
All in all the car does feel a lot tighter ie over bumps and round corners, also the steering feels heavier than it did before. It used to be feather light (abnormally so) and really twitchy before I replaced the wishbones ... I'm going to look at the idler I think as everything had to be disturbed to do the job :y
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*Just finished messing around under the car with a light ... Doesn't seem that there is any play in the steering arms and track rod ends at all*
I think it's just down to tracking getting knocked off during replacing the parts and the top bolts for the hubs are also camber adjustment so I most likely have those out of balance! That would definitely cause handling weirdness, Had a similar issue with my mk1 golf earlier this year and that was caused by passenger front wheel being 10 degrees out and drivers wheel being 2 degrees out ... both in opposite directions ::)
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A "normal" wishbone change with Vx/Lemforder/Myle bits always needs a full geo setup .. you've used a, basically, "unknown" source whose dimensions may be very slightly different to OE .. if so then camber/castor/tracking will ALL be in error to a greater or lessor degree. I would be having a FULL GEO done ASAP, if done by someone decent like WIM .. if there is a problem with either the wishbones, or any other component .. they will soon advise you of that fact !! :)
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A "normal" wishbone change with Vx/Lemforder/Myle bits always needs a full geo setup .. you've used a, basically, "unknown" source whose dimensions may be very slightly different to OE .. if so then camber/castor/tracking will ALL be in error to a greater or lessor degree. I would be having a FULL GEO done ASAP, if done by someone decent like WIM .. if there is a problem with either the wishbones, or any other component .. they will soon advise you of that fact !! :)
Heard allot of good about WIM ... unfortunately they are not in this area :'( The only place that springs to mind is Nobles Motorsport in chesterfield .. I know he is good and completely professional (if not a little on the expensive side)! Also would anyone know the Geometry settings for the front end on a FL omega? It's something everyone seems to have their own preference about the way you set them up ???
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Heard allot of good about WIM ... unfortunately they are not in this area .....
How about a trip to Bolton and Nigel Langs (http://www.nigellangsgarage.co.uk/page/Wheel-Alignment/) :y
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tempting but 71.7 miles might kill the front tyres ???
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Cheap wishbones aren't necessarily a bad buy, but you need to be very careful what you buy and where from...
Firstline and Delphi definitely worth avoiding for starters... and it's almost certainly worth fitting front polys and genuine rear bushes to any wishbone prior to fitting. That way they stand a genuine chance of lasting more than five minutes :y
Last but not least, getting the car set up properly afterwards is critical, and Wheels In Motion is as good a place as any :y
Go to the Wheels In Motion web site and look for one of there affiliates near you. That way you should get WIMs settings locally. Chesham isn't that far from you :-X
Front end settings alone are irrelevant btw... the car needs setting up completely front AND rear. Anyone who says different is wasting your time :y
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And for steering idler play, see the relevant guide, and it shows a video of one of my cars with a knackered idler.
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As for geo, needs to be a full geo check, as 4 wheel alignment/laser alignment/tracking are all a waste of money on our Omegas. To start with, you need to get the back straight, as that is the reference point. The thrust angle needs to be 0.00', and don't let any place fob you off with anything else, and that needs to be set first before attacking other settings.
To make matters worse, the GM supplied factory settings are unsuitable for older cars (and not great for brand new ones!), being far to wide, with the centre point on the front camber being far too aggressive.
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Well this time is a needs must with the pattern parts! I couldn't afford all this at genuine prices :(
If I get a year out of them I will be happy enough, As for the cat, well it's got to sound better than it does now! It's not always an option to wait around for the right second hand or genuine item. I need the car daily so I don't have much options open at the moment.
It's a non genuine sensor unfortunately so as you said Al I will be changing it again soon for sure, but it should hopefully stop the starting issues and backfiring for a while until I get a genuine part ::)
If its the flexi failed then buy a new flexi and pop down to me and I will weld it in for you then you can refit the original at your convenience in the future and use the pattern part to get you by in the mean time.
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tempting but 71.7 miles might kill the front tyres ???
Belive WIM have a franchise place in Mansfield according to their website Tyre 4 U Ltd
Unit 7
Anglia Way
Southwell Road West
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
NG18 4LP
£115 full geo
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tempting but 71.7 miles might kill the front tyres ???
Belive WIM have a franchise place in Mansfield according to their website Tyre 4 U Ltd
Unit 7
Anglia Way
Southwell Road West
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
NG18 4LP
£115 full geo
Remember, you must book via WIM in order to get the WIM settings, and the before/after should make its way back to WIM HQ for quality checks
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would the back wheels have to come off to do the geo? I only ask as it has stupid locking nuts that are far too tight and need to be butchered off (trust me i tried every other option)!
At the moment the exhaust is on the floor under the car ... can't get the thing to part ways with the car, All rubbers are removed, Can't split the joints >:( ! Downpipe/cat is undone from the manifold, But the nuts that join the cat to the middle section are that rusty they are just round stubs that I can't remove >:( ! To top it off it decided to rain on me to REALLY piss me off !
Back to unuseable again for the 5th time this month and really too stressed to do anymore today ... And just to make a bad situation worse, the gas men are coming to fit the new boiler for which I need to move the car. So tough luck there ::)
Anyone got any matches?? :D
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Finally got the whole exhaust off ;D All of it was extracted from the under side of the car in one whole piece :y
I found that full right hand lock was the answer to easily drop the cat off ... after that point it was plain sailing and a huge amount of jacking and repositioning the exhaust! At least I can now move it when the gas people arrive (and yes I only just finished) ::)
The cat that was fitted looks like a very old pattern part and looks identical to the one I bought with all the spares the other day