Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: steve6367 on 05 May 2014, 09:23:40
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Well it still generally runs better that it had for some time, so hopeful I've done nothing too silly.
However:
Cold start (sat over night) perfect, but it does not hold first couple of gear changes to higher revs.
Hot start (off for less than an hour) perfect
Warm start (3 or 4 hours after switch off) - starts immediately and is using rich mixture and increased idle speed but very lumpy. If you hold revs at 2k smooths out and if you give it 20 seconds of that all seems well. After this it also holds the first couple of gear changes until higher revs as expected on cold start to warm cats.
Plugging in I have stored P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction.
I've had a really good look over the engine and can't find anything out of order.
Any thoughts from the panel?
Many thanks
Steve
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What engine?
Given the code, be suspicious of MAF, airleaks in intake/exhaust or front lamda(s).
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LOL, its in title ;D
The same applies though :y
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Thanks - inlet side I've been over and MAF is only 6 months old, will take a look at live data from it though to see it looks sensible, I m learning not to assume anything! Exhaust is blowing slightly beyond the CAT section so sounds like I should get that changed. Can it cause problems even if blow is beyond both lambda?
Steve
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......
Cold start (sat over night) perfect, but it does not hold first couple of gear changes to higher revs.
Assuming it's an auto that is normal, warming the ATF, thats why OK when warm
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Warm start (3 or 4 hours after switch off) - starts immediately and is using rich mixture and increased idle speed but very lumpy. If you hold revs at 2k smooths out and if you give it 20 seconds of that all seems well. After this it also holds the first couple of gear changes until higher revs as expected on cold start to warm cats.
I would assume that is the same thing, like auto-choke was in older cars
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Plugging in I have stored P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction.
Mine does that and have concluded it is when switch on/off LPG. If not causing a permanent spanner light (only when ign on - not running) it is not something of great significance IMO
HTH
Phil
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......
Cold start (sat over night) perfect, but it does not hold first couple of gear changes to higher revs.
Assuming it's an auto that is normal, warming the ATF, thats why OK when warm
......
Warm start (3 or 4 hours after switch off) - starts immediately and is using rich mixture and increased idle speed but very lumpy. If you hold revs at 2k smooths out and if you give it 20 seconds of that all seems well. After this it also holds the first couple of gear changes until higher revs as expected on cold start to warm cats.
I would assume that is the same thing, like auto-choke was in older cars
...
Plugging in I have stored P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction.
Mine does that and have concluded it is when switch on/off LPG. If not causing a permanent spanner light (only when ign on - not running) it is not something of great significance IMO
HTH
Phil
Thanks - can you clarify? I thought the auto box should allow higher revs before gear change on a cold start to warm the CAT's quicker?
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Thanks - inlet side I've been over and MAF is only 6 months old
Genuine or pattern?
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Thanks - inlet side I've been over and MAF is only 6 months old
Genuine or pattern?
Bosch, but not new from a breaker....
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Cold start (sat over night) perfect, but it does not hold first couple of gear changes to higher revs.
Assuming it's an auto that is normal, warming the ATF, thats why OK when warm
......
Warm start (3 or 4 hours after switch off) - starts immediately and is using rich mixture and increased idle speed but very lumpy. If you hold revs at 2k smooths out and if you give it 20 seconds of that all seems well. After this it also holds the first couple of gear changes until higher revs as expected on cold start to warm cats.
I would assume that is the same thing, like auto-choke was in older cars
...
Plugging in I have stored P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction.
Mine does that and have concluded it is when switch on/off LPG. If not causing a permanent spanner light (only when ign on - not running) it is not something of great significance IMO
HTH
Phil
Thanks - can you clarify? I thought the auto box should allow higher revs before gear change on a cold start to warm the CAT's quicker?
That as well :-[
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Plugging in I have stored P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction.
Mine does that and have concluded it is when switch on/off LPG. If not causing a permanent spanner light (only when ign on - not running) it is not something of great significance IMO
HTH
Phil
I would say it is significant. On an LPG car it usually indicates that the LPG system is poorly mapped. On a petrol car it's an indication that something is significantly degrading the accuracy of the fuelling. There is quite a wide margin of adjustment before this code is stored, so something has gone badly wrong if this code is being reported. As said, air leaks, MAF and lambda sensor issues are the usual suspects.
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First port of call:
- Test the MAF by unplugging it, see if it runs better.
- Test for air leaks by blipping the throttle and listening for those unmistakable whistles
Then you are in to needing a reader to watch live data for the lambdas. Double-check it is correctly plugged in though, it can be easy to forget or not quite push home :y
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Thank you both - I only have a very limited window to do any testing as it runs perfectly, except on a warm start for around 20 seconds.
I know if parked at work for the day it will play up when started, so can try unplugging the MAF before I do so and see what happens. When I do that does it assume a MAF value? Or just run open loop?
MAF and Lambda live data looks ok, but I don't have Tech 2 - also the freeze frame data attached to the code stored shows a MAF value 0.0gm/s which clearly can't be correct.
I wonder if I have 2 different issues here to be honest.
Could the Lambda sensors have been damaged by all the steam in the exhaust when the HG went?
Steve
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Can you see the fuel trims in your live data?
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From the Freeze Frame if that helps, I can also see when in live data but don't have the car with me currently.
Freeze Frame data
Fault code Sensor Value
P0170 Sensor values:
Calculated Load 55.29 %
Coolant Temperature 86. C
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 12.5 %
Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 11.72 %
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 -100. %
Engine Speed 2426 rpm
Vehicle Speed 42 mph
Ignition Timing Advance 63.50 º
Intake Air Temperature 32.00 ºC
Air Flow Rate (MAF) 0.00 g/s
Absolute Throttle Position 7.06 %
Oxygen Sensor 1 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Oxygen Sensor 2 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Fuel System 1 Status Closed Loop
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Maf reading 0 according to that.
Air temp also seems hot
What device are you using?
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63.5 degree ignition advance too! :o
That live data doesn't look trustworthy to me. :(
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Gendan EngineCheck Pro with ELM327 v1.4b USB interface.
That is a freeze frame which I think it takes from the ECU? (although clearly the reader could screw it up in the process). When I get home I can grab some live data and post, certainly the MAF does not show 0 there.
Or are we just saying my reader is giving me rubbish? >:(
Steve
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Here is another Freeze Frame from a different date - i.e. the fault has been logged, cleared and returned several times:
Freeze Frame data
Fault code Sensor Value P0170
Sensor values:
Calculated Load 63.53 %
Coolant Temperature 78. C
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 12.5 %
Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 11.72 %
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 -100. %
Engine Speed 2725 rpm
Vehicle Speed 67 mph
Ignition Timing Advance 7.50 º
Intake Air Temperature 17.00 ºC
Air Flow Rate (MAF) 2.67 g/s
Absolute Throttle Position 2.75 %
Oxygen Sensor 1 - Bank 1 voltage 0.12 V
Oxygen Sensor 2 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Fuel System 1 Status Closed Loop
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One more (last one!) from when the HG Failed and is was misfiring:
Freeze Frame data
Fault code Sensor Value P0302
Sensor values:
Calculated Load 71.37 %
Coolant Temperature 93. C
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 0. %
Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 11.72 %
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 -100. %
Engine Speed 3119 rpm
Vehicle Speed 30 mph
Ignition Timing Advance 63.50 º
Intake Air Temperature 14.00 ºC
Air Flow Rate (MAF) 0.00 g/s
Absolute Throttle Position 7.06 %
Oxygen Sensor 1 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Oxygen Sensor 2 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Fuel System 1 Status Open Loop (accelerating)
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Today ECL on and:
Freeze Frame data
Fault code Sensor Value P1130
Sensor values:
Calculated Load 33.33 %
Coolant Temperature 87. C
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 12.5 %
Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 11.72 %
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 -100. %
Engine Speed 1807 rpm
Vehicle Speed 44 mph
Ignition Timing Advance 6.00 º
Intake Air Temperature 33.00 ºC
Air Flow Rate (MAF) 3.93 g/s
Absolute Throttle Position 3.92 %
Oxygen Sensor 1 - Bank 1 voltage 0.37 V
Oxygen Sensor 2 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Fuel System 1 Status Closed Loop
Some live data after code cleared:
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/livedatagrid_zps6be2ed33.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/steve6367/media/Omega/livedatagrid_zps6be2ed33.jpg.html)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/lambdaboth_zps09b050e0.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/steve6367/media/Omega/lambdaboth_zps09b050e0.jpg.html)
Code would suggest Lambda? Although they both look fine on the graph :o Still driving fine other than brief rough running on a warm start.
Steve
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Maf reading 0 according to that.
Air temp also seems hot
What device are you using?
Does anyone know what they normally get? The 28C in my live data was with an amdient of 12C.
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Any thoughts on the data posted? Or anymore diagnostics anyone?
Bit of shame after getting the HG done to have the ECL light on all the time and I gues it wont pass its MOT next month either :-(
Steve
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Plugging in I have stored P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction.
Mine does that and have concluded it is when switch on/off LPG. If not causing a permanent spanner light (only when ign on - not running) it is not something of great significance IMO
HTH
Phil
I would say it is significant. On an LPG car it usually indicates that the LPG system is poorly mapped. On a petrol car it's an indication that something is significantly degrading the accuracy of the fuelling. There is quite a wide margin of adjustment before this code is stored, so something has gone badly wrong if this code is being reported. As said, air leaks, MAF and lambda sensor issues are the usual suspects.
Kevin - to ellaborate.
It seems to happen if the LPG tries to switch in at the "wrong time", eg accellerating. Also if the LPG runs out when accellerating or at high speed. This tends to cause a slight "stutter" during the transition and then next time I switch on the ign the spanner light does not go out until the engine is started (normally would go out after a couple of sec's). The code is the only one stored when I get the chance to check.
So, before I go and try looking for something wrong, is there something I could find and resolve.
The LPG system is professionaly installed and serviced and mapping checked every year and I have always had this occurance with both my LPG'd cars
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So I've been over it agian at the weekend and can't find any trapped wiring, air leaks etc
Driving home today and on comes the EML, but nice and near home so I can leave it running and get the code reader on:
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/o2sensorsfailed2_zps1e26f27b.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/steve6367/media/Omega/o2sensorsfailed2_zps1e26f27b.jpg.html)
Live Lambda data:
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/o2sensorsfailed_zpsd43fcb22.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/steve6367/media/Omega/o2sensorsfailed_zpsd43fcb22.jpg.html)
Then switch off and back on again and:
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/o2sensorsfailed3engineoffandbackon_zpsded5139a.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/steve6367/media/Omega/o2sensorsfailed3engineoffandbackon_zpsded5139a.jpg.html)
This all looks a little strange to me. Does the actual ECU often go wrong as I am not sure I believe what it is reporting now.
Steve
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Any thoughts from the panel? :o
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Gendan EngineCheck Pro with ELM327 v1.4b USB interface.
That is a freeze frame which I think it takes from the ECU? (although clearly the reader could screw it up in the process). When I get home I can grab some live data and post, certainly the MAF does not show 0 there.
Or are we just saying my reader is giving me rubbish? >:(
Steve
Steve, does the EngineCheck Pro software, cover all Vauxhauls? I was told that I would need to use the Vauxcheck software with the Omega when I asked.
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Gendan EngineCheck Pro with ELM327 v1.4b USB interface.
That is a freeze frame which I think it takes from the ECU? (although clearly the reader could screw it up in the process). When I get home I can grab some live data and post, certainly the MAF does not show 0 there.
Or are we just saying my reader is giving me rubbish? >:(
Steve
Steve, does the EngineCheck Pro software, cover all Vauxhauls? I was told that I would need to use the Vauxcheck software with the Omega when I asked.
2001 onwards they say yes (it does not work on my Saloon which is older) - it certainly has worked ok since I've had it. I'm just not convinced by what it is telling me and I don't have any past live data to use for comparison.
Fingers cross someone will and can advise further......
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Gendan EngineCheck Pro with ELM327 v1.4b USB interface.
That is a freeze frame which I think it takes from the ECU? (although clearly the reader could screw it up in the process). When I get home I can grab some live data and post, certainly the MAF does not show 0 there.
Or are we just saying my reader is giving me rubbish? >:(
Steve
Steve, does the EngineCheck Pro software, cover all Vauxhauls? I was told that I would need to use the Vauxcheck software with the Omega when I asked.
2001 onwards they say yes (it does not work on my Saloon which is older) - it certainly has worked ok since I've had it. I'm just not convinced by what it is telling me and I don't have any past live data to use for comparison.
Fingers cross someone will and can advise further......
Lets hope so Steve. Good luck with it.
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Thank you the MOT is getting a little close now!
???
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Well whole new exhaust and another post CAT Lambda and it passed the MOT :y
Does the below help at all?
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/img-140805195118-0001_zps5cce3368.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/steve6367/media/Omega/img-140805195118-0001_zps5cce3368.jpg.html)