Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: chrisgixer on 26 May 2014, 00:06:25
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(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/f41e9d8cb8a7cb08f07bfc0118ae4bc8_zps0bcb54f2.jpg)
As I'm sure most people know, ideal camber setting is -1.10. Mine is set to -1.15 which is normal with sports/ lowered suspension.
With those settings you might expect to see the majority of the wear on the inner edge, by the time the tyre is worn out.
So, question is, why is there more outside edge wear?which is shown at the bottom edge of the tyre in the pic.
The type of wear is different as you can see. The inner edge (top) is normal camber wear we're familiar with. But the outer edge wear (bottom) is different. More of a scrub, like a toe issue IMO.
Car is 30mm lowered, with front polys only. Rear bush is normal gm rubber.
Thoughts?
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Heres a side on shot of outer edge with tyre size.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/3c26c023122f4334f3580ffc9ac66101_zps810df9c4.jpg)
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Hi cornering speed :-\ are both front tyres the same?
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Hi cornering speed :-\ are both front tyres the same?
Yes. Fitted in pairs. At the same time. Same model. :)
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One might argue, that given the wear, the settings are prety good, as the wear is even, ish.
My only real issue is, with -1.15 the straight line stability is not as good as -1.10. It's still good/acceptable, but it's noticeably less stable.
With a slight reservation on the toe setting for part poly. I suspect this is probably as good as it gets. Given the wear shown.
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Hi cornering speed :-\ are both front tyres the same?
Yes. Fitted in pairs. At the same time. Same model. :)
What about the wear? Or is it only nearside :-\
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Hi cornering speed :-\ are both front tyres the same?
Yes. Fitted in pairs. At the same time. Same model. :)
What about the wear? Or is it only nearside :-\
Sorry , yes. Within reason, the wear is almost identical on both front wheels. If being really picky, the outside edge wear on this tyre is fractionally worse.
Tyre shown is drivers side.
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Only thing of note is, these tyres had a faulty steering idler fitted to the car for about 6months.
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Get your self one of these. Save fuel and tyre wear.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/tidla1/flintstones_zps439ab234.jpg)
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Only thing of note is, these tyres had a faulty steering idler fitted to the car for about 6months.
Which would cause toe deflection beyond the normal geometric tolerances of the suspension :-\ can't quite visualise the effect though...
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Only thing of note is, these tyres had a faulty steering idler fitted to the car for about 6months.
Which would cause toe deflection beyond the normal geometric tolerances of the suspension :-\ can't quite visualise the effect though...
Constant adjustment of the steering to account for a varying toe setting/flapping pas side wheel.
So the toe is varying constantly. And excessively. Add in a possibly excess standard setting of -0.5 each side given the polys, and add in a corner....
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That sweeping left hander as you come of the M4 won't be helping any :-\
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That sweeping left hander as you come of the M4 won't be helping any :-\
To Not Reading? Yes won't help at all. ;D
But it's usually queued back with traffic. :(
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When was the last time you had geomatry checked?
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had exactly the same on my old elite when i bought it , changed the drop links and track rod ends and had no more issues .
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I *think* the outside edge wear is due to driving style. Heavy, high speed cornering (or Milton Keynes' bloody roundabouts) take their toll on the outside edge.
My belief is that this is not toe wear.
Both mine are set to 1.10 - though both have had to deal with 4 months of the local roads around here since setup - and I'm seeing the same, only more extreme, as my outside edge on TBE is now borderline, and the rest of the tyre has plenty (including inner edge). NSF worse than OSF (well, until I swapped them over).
The Bullet is more even between inner and outer shoulder wear, generating the profile of a motorcycle tyre, or as Mr Gixer says, Clown Car tyres.
Seems I need to leave camber as-is on the Bullet, but increase it on TBE, to try to even out the wear. Both are 30mm lowered at the front, on Irmscher springs.
The odd rear wear I suffer on both (centre band) I've reduced with taking the rears down to 28PSI. At about half worn, they get swapped with the front, in order even out wear (fronts wear edges, rears wear centres). Obviously only an option if front and rear are same width.
Not sure front wear could be significantly reduced on pressure. My fronts are normally around 33PSI.
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When was the last time you had geomatry checked?
October. Ish. Iirc.
Not long ago anyway. I'm confident the set up is pretty accurate. Or was, until I did the top mounts yesterday, with the exception of that dodgy idler obviously.
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Low pressures would help tyre to wear like that,may be worth upping them by 2/3 psi
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The central tread area looks to be down to the wear indicators to me, so one could argue that that tyre has worn quite evenly, in that all 3 areas of the tyre have become unacceptably worn at about the same time.
If you have both shoulders wearing, it's difficult to see what you could do to improve it, other than perhaps a little more tyre pressure, which might stop it rolling onto the edges as much in hard cornering.
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Low pressures would help tyre to wear like that,may be worth upping them by 2/3 psi
These have been set to 33/4. More than recommended . I have run the previous set at 28. The wear was the same.
I see what you mean Henry, but as the pic, the type of wear although even, is different from one side to the other.
For instance if this was off an old ladiesTunnies car with the same type of wear both sides I'd agree. But this is odd even wear, if that make any sense at all :-[ ;D
Apologies to Tunnie ;D
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.. but they aren't the original tyre size, and tyre pressures are a guide anyway based on
tunnie "average" driving. Some experimentation might be required. ;)
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The central tread area looks to be down to the wear indicators to me, so one could argue that that tyre has worn quite evenly, in that all 3 areas of the tyre have become unacceptably worn at about the same time.
If you have both shoulders wearing, it's difficult to see what you could do to improve it, other than perhaps a little more tyre pressure, which might stop it rolling onto the edges as much in hard cornering.
If like mine, the pic is running off the right edge of the screen, scroll across, and visibly there's actually about 3mm of tread left until the wear indicators.
I tend to agree re camber. As TB mentioned lately, which was very odd for him to mention this particular word I know, that we are in the world of "compromise" (;D ) between cornering wear and straight lune stability, regarding the camber setting. Which like you I dont see where the camber setting can be improved. I'm not sure TB acknowledges the existence of the word compromise, especially when driving, but he did say it. ;D
My only question re set up iregarding the standard Toe Setting is does it need to be decreased for a Poly fronts. Given poly in both wishbone bushes needs a zero toe setting going by Tony's posts a while back. There's is an audible squeal on long sweepers, the volume of which can be adjusted in reverse by the loud pedal.
Gas it hard mid corner and the squeal is gone. Throttle off, or reduce throttle and it gets louder again.
If toe was less, would that help the squeal, and hence wear on the outer edge...? (Bearing in mind car is in a mid corner attitude. My brain can't visualise it clearly, but any +toe setting would be increased in a corner with an amount of turn on the steering Afaict, add in cornering forces and the rim pushing the tyre bead outside the tread forcing the outer edge onto the road and moving the inner edge contact patch nearer the middle of the tyre.... I think...? )
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I *think* the outside edge wear is due to driving style. Heavy, high speed cornering (or Milton Keynes' bloody roundabouts) take their toll on the outside edge.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I must drive faster than you think :)
Photos of the old Goodyear Eagle Ventura's that came off my 2.2 after 45k in my ownership.....
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/Tyres/CIMG1447.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/Tyres/CIMG1448.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/Tyres/CIMG1449.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/Tyres/CIMG1450.JPG)
I can't recall what was changed after this, I think a WIM Geo and very possibly some new drop links (GM) but that's it. :)
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Wonder if I can dig out the toe settings, as mine is not as close to the edge, as Chris's :-\
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Found it, tyre photos taken in May '09, WIM Session from September that year...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/WIM/wim.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/WIM/wim.jpg)
I don't think I would have done two WIM sessions inside 6 months, so that would be my settings with that wear above. I also think that was my first WIM session, I would have also had the Falkens put on then.
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Found it, tyre photos taken in May '09, WIM Session from September that year...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/WIM/wim.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/WIM/wim.jpg)
I don't think I would have done two WIM sessions inside 6 months, so that would be my settings with that wear above. I also think that was my first WIM session, I would have also had the Falkens put on then.
Toe is excessive going by those figures.
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As I've said before, I don't believe toe will make any odds. Ok, if it's miles out it'll cause the tyres to scrub in a straight line, but that'll be more even wear. The difference between parallel and 10' of toe in isn't relevant unless travelling in a straight line, IMHO, because as soon as you start to turn the Ackerman geometry will produce so much more toe-out that the static toe setting pales into insignificance.
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chrisgixer - compromise? Watdatden? Driving is on or off, no room for anything in between (compromise) :P.
As to polys, as I understand, then still have "give" (else we'd put something solid in instead, rather than poly), so I don't think even with fully poly'd, you can have zero toe.
Tunnie - you're plastic tyres don't count. They were so hard, even you could overdrive them, and that wear pattern looks like they have been overdriven. Or maybe your shagged suspension (at the time) hasn't helped ;D. Was that wear on both fronts, or just one corner - I can't remember?
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Post 23
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=122270.msg1556890#msg1556890
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Wot 'e said... ;D
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Post 23
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=122270.msg1556890#msg1556890
Hmmm, I can understand if there was no give at all. But there is (and must be) some.
That said, there would be less, thus less toe needed ? :-\
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Tunnie - you're plastic tyres don't count. They were so hard, even you could overdrive them, and that wear pattern looks like they have been overdriven. Or maybe your shagged suspension (at the time) hasn't helped ;D. Was that wear on both fronts, or just one corner - I can't remember?
Both sides :y
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Post 23
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=122270.msg1556890#msg1556890
Hmmm, I can understand if there was no give at all. But there is (and must be) some.
That said, there would be less, thus less toe needed ? :-\
That's my thinking.
I think.... :-\ ;D
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Post 23
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=122270.msg1556890#msg1556890
Hmmm, I can understand if there was no give at all. But there is (and must be) some.
That said, there would be less, thus less toe needed ? :-\
That's my thinking.
I think.... :-\ ;D
But would zero toe be too little, given there is "some" give in the bushes? Plus you still have rubber in the verticals...
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All this farting around with tyres to get best handling, wear rates ect, the amount you lot spend on tyres you might as well get a VXR8 ;D
In nearly 100k, I'm only on my 3rd set of tyres ;D
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All this farting around with tyres to get best handling, wear rates ect, the amount you lot spend on tyres you might as well get a VXR8 ;D
In nearly 100k, I'm only on my 3rd set of tyres ;D
Aye, but not even my nearly 80yr old mum (that'll piss her off, sorry mum!) drives as slow as you...
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All this farting around with tyres to get best handling, wear rates ect, the amount you lot spend on tyres you might as well get a VXR8 ;D
In nearly 100k, I'm only on my 3rd set of tyres ;D
Aye, but not even my nearly 80yr old mum (that'll piss her off, sorry mum!) drives as slow as you...
Unfair tag that, drive as normal folk do. 80mph cruise down motorways, about the same on country roads, I also have had 2 speeds tickets since I passed.
Some you just drive like nutters ;D
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Post 23
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=122270.msg1556890#msg1556890
Hmmm, I can understand if there was no give at all. But there is (and must be) some.
That said, there would be less, thus less toe needed ? :-\
That's my thinking.
I think.... :-\ ;D
But would zero toe be too little, given there is "some" give in the bushes? Plus you still have rubber in the verticals...
Ah I see TB is struggling with this compromise thing, and that there are numerous fractions between 0.00 and 0.10 combined toe. ;D it's not like a throttle, on or off. There is an adjustment in between. ;) ;D
Maybe half the original toe setting...? See what Tony says perhaps? :) I can't see an issue provided it doesn't go into toe out. Maybe it already does on the brakes :-\ how to tell ? :-\
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All this farting around with tyres to get best handling, wear rates ect, the amount you lot spend on tyres you might as well get a VXR8 ;D
In nearly 100k, I'm only on my 3rd set of tyres ;D
Aye, but not even my nearly 80yr old mum (that'll piss her off, sorry mum!) drives as slow as you...
Unfair tag that, drive as normal folk do. 80mph cruise down motorways, about the same on country roads, I also have had 2 speeds tickets since I passed.
Some you just drive like nutters ;D
Vxr8 and monaro both need set, same as omega.
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Maybe half the original toe setting...? See what Tony says perhaps? :) I can't see an issue provided it doesn't go into toe out. Maybe it already does on the brakes :-\ how to tell ? :-\
Directional instability under braking. :y
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Maybe half the original toe setting...? See what Tony says perhaps? :) I can't see an issue provided it doesn't go into toe out. Maybe it already does on the brakes :-\ how to tell ? :-\
Directional instability under braking. :y
I've been having that until last night, in TBE. TBE has outside shoulder wear, more extreme than Mr Gixer's :(
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Maybe half the original toe setting...? See what Tony says perhaps? :) I can't see an issue provided it doesn't go into toe out. Maybe it already does on the brakes :-\ how to tell ? :-\
Directional instability under braking. :y
I've been having that until last night, in TBE. TBE has outside shoulder wear, more extreme than Mr Gixer's :(
so what has now changed ?? :)
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So what changed?
Too late
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Maybe half the original toe setting...? See what Tony says perhaps? :) I can't see an issue provided it doesn't go into toe out. Maybe it already does on the brakes :-\ how to tell ? :-\
Directional instability under braking. :y
I've been having that until last night, in TBE. TBE has outside shoulder wear, more extreme than Mr Gixer's :(
so what has now changed ?? :)
The car is much more stable under moderately hard braking (not tried a proper brake test yet).
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New calipers perchance :-\
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New calipers perchance :-\
They are for the other one... ...but still live in the mobile storage facility
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Maybe half the original toe setting...? See what Tony says perhaps? :) I can't see an issue provided it doesn't go into toe out. Maybe it already does on the brakes :-\ how to tell ? :-\
Directional instability under braking. :y
I've been having that until last night, in TBE. TBE has outside shoulder wear, more extreme than Mr Gixer's :(
so what has now changed ?? :)
The car is much more stable under moderately hard braking (not tried a proper brake test yet).
Why though? You haven't answered the question.
Has it been set up, for instance?
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He's not saying, what ever it is. ::)