Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: hawke113a on 03 June 2014, 20:48:08

Title: lpg convertion...
Post by: hawke113a on 03 June 2014, 20:48:08
hi guys..i have a 2.5 elite and im thinking about an lpg convertion....the wife uses car for work,every now and then,but she does a few miles with work....so i thought lpg would bring fuel cost down a little.....has anyone had it done and is it worth while....ive been on a few websites and some say the v6 miggy doesnt go well with lpg due to two separate inlets....an help is most welcome...cheers guys  :D
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: ffcgary1 on 03 June 2014, 21:42:40
they dont know what they are talking about. the v6 is easy to convert. pm jamesv6cdx for details or see he maint guides. lpg threads :y
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: Entwood on 03 June 2014, 22:22:21
You'll save around 10 pence a mile on average .. so 15p a mile instead of 25p a mile ... you now need to work out how many miles you do against the cost of the conversion do see if it works for you.

DIY conversions around £750 ... mine was done 5 years ago professionally (before the DIY was up and running) and cost £2180 ... took 2 years to reach "payback" but has been saving me money for 3 years .. :)

Performance changes not one tiny iota, if correctly set up you do not know which fuel you are on. I tow regularly a 1600kg unit, and the LPG doesn't even care .. other than saving me shed loads :)

The only other thing to consider is where you get your LPG from, and the size of tank you want, as a small tank and fuel not locally available will affect running costs badly

:)
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: martin42 on 03 June 2014, 22:27:37
I run a frontera 2.2 petrol,takes £33 @ 73.9p ltr,do average 225 to a tank,which is not to bad,but i brought the frontera already converted,and i cant tell any difference when running on lpg or petrol.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: D on 03 June 2014, 23:21:22
There is a chap near Leeds that does LPG conversions. Seems quite decent. I have had him do some work on my LPG system with no issues.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 04 June 2014, 17:39:25
Fuel savings are around a 3rd. So if your current costs are around 30p per mile, expect running on LPG to be around 20ppm, taking into account petrol usage.

The GM V6 converts well if using a sequential setup. If any mongrel is suggesting a mixer setup, shoot them, as they are thick as two short planks.


Both my v6 Omegas are running DIY LPG kits :y
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: Lazydocker on 05 June 2014, 20:11:34
Converts very well. Done 40k on LPG in the current car and did around 65K in it's predecessor (A 3.0) :y
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: adey2 on 07 June 2014, 13:55:43
both my migs are on prinns systems, one was converted at 40k and now got 120k on clock, other i did as a diy conversion, doesnt miss a beat unless missis has killed it again, as others say vaux v6 engine seems to run flawlessly on it
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: chrisgixer on 07 June 2014, 14:45:29
See the guides in maintenance section.

Worst bit is the inlet under the plenum but nothing to difficult. And for me personally, soldering in the electrics to the loom.

I'd also take the opportunity to service any coolant leaks in the valley of the v, like re seal the oil oil cooler cover plate, change the stat, make sure the ignition system and hence cam cover seals and scuttle or all sealed, while its all apart, and it'll be good for the life of the car without complicating set up with missfires and poor running.

So in comparison with some installs with exposed plastic manifolds they can just drill into and drape fuel lines over the engine, then yes, it's more involved on an omega, but difficult? No, certainly not. If they think an omega is difficult to convert then they're in the wrong job.

But you do need to be fully clear where every component will be sited and how your going about it before you start. Cop 11 regs need be passed to get a certificate. Do this for piece of mind and insurance purposes. IMO it gives another view on your work and prevents corner cutting. Which is to be avoided obviously.

The guides are quite extensive so worth a look. Good luck :)


Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: hawke113a on 07 June 2014, 19:28:42
cheers guys...looks like ill be saving for a while...looks like its worth doing...thanks again
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: omega3000 on 07 June 2014, 19:54:56
You'll save around 10 pence a mile on average .. so 15p a mile instead of 25p a mile ... you now need to work out how many miles you do against the cost of the conversion do see if it works for you.

DIY conversions around £750 ... mine was done 5 years ago professionally (before the DIY was up and running) and cost £2180 ... took 2 years to reach "payback" but has been saving me money for 3 years .. :)

Performance changes not one tiny iota, if correctly set up you do not know which fuel you are on. I tow regularly a 1600kg unit, and the LPG doesn't even care .. other than saving me shed loads :)

The only other thing to consider is where you get your LPG from, and the size of tank you want, as a small tank and fuel not locally available will affect running costs badly

:)

Is this still the going rate for a conversion  :-\
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 07 June 2014, 19:59:38
Yup :y based on parts only, as it assumes diy labour is free...
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: omega3000 on 07 June 2014, 20:12:43
Yup :y based on parts only, as it assumes diy labour is free...

Not bad then  :) , what size tank would this price give  :-\
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 07 June 2014, 22:41:06
The largest four hole tank you can fit :y donut tanks are more expensive but cylindrical tanks hAve a greater capacity for the same price...
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: chrisgixer on 08 June 2014, 01:03:59
Yup :y based on parts only, as it assumes diy labour is free...

Not bad then  :) , what size tank would this price give  :-\
Seen some installs with a 100litre tank. But that completely  covers the through space behind the back seats and can weigh more when full lowering rear ride height slightly.

Do of you tow? Do you have self levelling? Do you need any element of the through space? Do you need a the full boot area?

Anything from a 100ltr cylinder accross the back seats to a donut tank in the spare wheel well is possible, depending on your needs.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: omega3000 on 08 June 2014, 20:20:40
Yup :y based on parts only, as it assumes diy labour is free...

Not bad then  :) , what size tank would this price give  :-\
Seen some installs with a 100litre tank. But that completely  covers the through space behind the back seats and can weigh more when full lowering rear ride height slightly.

Do of you tow? Do you have self levelling? Do you need any element of the through space? Do you need a the full boot area?

Anything from a 100ltr cylinder accross the back seats to a donut tank in the spare wheel well is possible, depending on your needs.

I will want some boot space and i was thinking of fitting a tow bar  :(
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 09 June 2014, 21:23:42
Go for the largest tank that's feesible for you. It seems that filling is inefficient, so I always try to aim to fill when nearly empty to get max mpg, rather than short fill because I've seen somewhere cheap.

No idea why short filling kills economy, but its the same on both mine...
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 11:55:47
Who is the best source for kits these days? Telio stopped doing them ages ago, last time I looked eBay was the cheapest. I looked at some other companies but their kits were far more than eBay.

Thing with Telio was he always supplied the little extra odds and sods you need, as I think I need a V6 kit  :-X
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 11:59:31
Who is the best source for kits these days? Telio stopped doing them ages ago, last time I looked eBay was the cheapest. I looked at some other companies but their kits were far more than eBay.

Thing with Telio was he always supplied the little extra odds and sods you need, as I think I need a V6 kit  :-X
Sadly, we lost the decent stash of the odds and ends left over from previous installs, and they were not insured  :'(
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 12:11:16
Who is the best source for kits these days? Telio stopped doing them ages ago, last time I looked eBay was the cheapest. I looked at some other companies but their kits were far more than eBay.

Thing with Telio was he always supplied the little extra odds and sods you need, as I think I need a V6 kit  :-X
Sadly, we lost the decent stash of the odds and ends left over from previous installs, and they were not insured  :'(

Would have been an issue explaining each little bit from that left overs too. Think I gave you some of my spares too  :'(
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 12:18:31
So is fleBay the best bet?  :-\

Anyone recommend any others?
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 12:20:35
IIRC - The 'Gold' reducer was recommend? REG OMVL Injectors good?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAG-300-6-AUTOGAS-SEQUENTIAL-INJECTION-LPG-6-CYL-350-HP-KIT-W-REG-OMVL-INJECS-/121020790516?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c2d66b6f4 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAG-300-6-AUTOGAS-SEQUENTIAL-INJECTION-LPG-6-CYL-350-HP-KIT-W-REG-OMVL-INJECS-/121020790516?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c2d66b6f4)
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 15:12:34
I'm looking at replacing TBE's injectors to those ones that DrGixer has, as I'm getting grumpy running until warmed up now, which I believe he suffered.

My setup is Stag Plus, KME Gold, Motogas injectors (possibly AC ones?), 80l 4 hole cylinder.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 15:49:29
I'm looking at replacing TBE's injectors to those ones that DrGixer has, as I'm getting grumpy running until warmed up now, which I believe he suffered.

My setup is Stag Plus, KME Gold, Motogas injectors (possibly AC ones?), 80l 4 hole cylinder.

What injectors does Gixer have?
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 18:18:38
So quick sums, ~£400 on front end kit + ~£500 for rear end kit? Can't find the notes I made when I rang tinley about a year ago about rear end kit, but was around £400-£450.

Add in certification, odds and sods, fuel in runs up and down, bribing Mr Wood for injector tapping, curry payments to little fatty, I cannot see me getting change out of £1k.  :'(

That's a lot to spend, having just done further quick sums, I reckon i'd save around 6p a mile.

Split that by around 200 working days I'd use the car ~10k miles that's only £600 saved. Looking at 2 years before I'm back in profit.

Hummmm
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 18:37:36
I paid £580 for TBE's kit, and around £100 for certification, if that helps?  The Silver Bullet was a shade cheaper, as that has a multivalve.

Remember, Tinley are about the most expensive out there.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 18:44:11
I paid £580 for TBE's kit, and around £100 for certification, if that helps?  The Silver Bullet was a shade cheaper, as that has a multivalve.

Remember, Tinley are about the most expensive out there.

That was a few years ago now though. Plus Telio was about the best and cheapest supplier going, who gave everything in the kit.

Soo ~£700 for yours, I think around ~£900 for mine, is about right? Given time since, change in suppliers?

Even £750 cost will take more than a year  :(

As I reckon 25mpg at £0.23 mile. (assuming 128.9 litre)

LPG I reckon 19mpg £0.17 mile (assuming 71p litre)

So only 6p....

Take into account 30 days holiday + days sick + working from home + bike runs, I'm looking at 200 runs to work a year, around 10k miles. So £600 saved.

It won't be used much for personal miles, as that would be the Estate.  :-\
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 18:48:28
As we all know, fuel savings are approx. 1/3rd

If you don't need the space of day trips out, why wouldn't you take the 3.2 (or 2.2)?
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 18:54:56
As we all know, fuel savings are approx. 1/3rd

If you don't need the space of day trips out, why wouldn't you take the 3.2 (or 2.2)?

Reason this has all kicked off, is the pram won't fit in the boot of the 2.2 as some idiot put a larger 90L tank in there.  ::)

So, either put a smaller tank in. Or call it time on the 2.2 and gas the 3.2, with 80L setup where pram (after testing yours) should fit.

At CostCo the pram and cot bit thing went in the 3.2, but sod all room for anything else. Squeezed shopping in, but fek all room for anything else really. Given crap stuff we haul around.

When I gassed the 2.2, I was doing almost 30k a year, now, it's more like 10k tops. So payback time is an issue now.

So the Estate is needed, I'll take that on and do a little TLC on it.

But problem is, keep 2.2 or gas 3.2  :-\

That said I don't really want to spend £800 on gass'ing it. At the end of the day, it's going to be worse on fuel than my 2.2 and it's going to take an age to pay back.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 18:56:27
So it's looking like keep the 2.2, sell the 3.2, and just deal without ability to carry pram until that day comes. Thinking about it, I've not tried taking prams wheels off.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2014, 18:58:58
Or, buy a 2.2 estate and pull the kit off the 2.2 saloon with a donut tank, wot like was suggested first off  ::)
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 18:59:56
So it's looking like keep the 2.2, sell the 3.2, and just deal without ability to carry pram until that day comes. Thinking about it, I've not tried taking prams wheels off.
Takign the wheels off isn't going to be viable really, is it? You want to fold, shove in, pull out, unfold. Not fanny around.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 19:01:05
If the mileage is that low, use the bike in the summer and petrol 3.2 in the winter  :-\
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 19:04:09
So it's looking like keep the 2.2, sell the 3.2, and just deal without ability to carry pram until that day comes. Thinking about it, I've not tried taking prams wheels off.
Takign the wheels off isn't going to be viable really, is it? You want to fold, shove in, pull out, unfold. Not fanny around.

Estate will be used most, it's unlikely 2.2 would be used. But I need to cater for it, quite possible the Estate maybe broke or need work. So do need capability really, those wheels take 2 seconds to take off though.

Or, buy a 2.2 estate and pull the kit off the 2.2 saloon with a donut tank, wot like was suggested first off  ::)

Donut tank range not good enough  :y

If the mileage is that low, use the bike in the summer and petrol 3.2 in the winter  :-\

Thought had crossed my mind  :-\
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 19:07:23
Donut tank range not good enough  :y
It is if that's the best option. I suspect you could get well over 300m from a 72l doughnut, given your sedate driving style.

(72l doughnut would require slight floor lift)
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2014, 19:08:19
We've had the range discussion, and your forgetting for the sake of arguement that there are at least 6 lpg station within five miles of your house, ok perhaps 7, but the point stands :y
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 19:16:29
Problem solved....

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/Baby/2014-06-11%2019.09.10.jpg)

Took seconds, once I remembered the wheels came off  ;D

No point LPG'ing the Estate, I filled up the 3.2 with go-go juice around 6 weeks ago, still not used it all...
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 19:18:51
Aren't kids supposed to be in the cabin?
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 19:19:40
Aren't kids supposed to be in the cabin?

Err yeah? That's the pram base + cot? Baby seat and dock in the car  :)
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2014, 19:20:39
Two questions...

1. Can you do that in the rain when the baby is kicking off?
1a. Can Mrs T?
2. Where does all the other crap paraphernalia go?

Me thinks Mr Tunnie needs to wake up to the reality of what is about to happen ::)

Edited to add a sub question.
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 19:21:00
Aren't kids supposed to be in the cabin?

Err yeah? That's the pram base + cot? Baby seat and dock in the car  :)
Oh, OK.


Seems a lot of wanking around, can't you leave in the pram in the boot? ::)
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 19:27:48
Two questions...

1. Can you do that in the rain when the baby is kicking off?
2. Where does all the other crap paraphernalia go?

Me thinks Mr Tunnie needs to wake up to the reality of what is about to happen ::)

Ok, think basic point was missed again, you tend to skip over the key facts of why I do things. Then go off preaching, recall someone buying an Insignia Hatch, then realising fek all fits in it?  ::)

The Estate will become the primary car for baby, due to huge space. As I've mentioned before, I'll say it again just to confirm. The Estate will become the main car.

The only reason for changing/gassing the 3.2 was the fact I could not fit the pram in at-all in my 2.2, or so I thought, incase of a must have reason to use mine. Being Estate is broke, or for some reason I need to take mine.

Even with kit in the 3.2, space is minimal. Remember on the 2.2, I have a good chunk of space behind the tank/seats.

Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2014, 19:37:14
I knew the Insignia was a compromise when I bought it, and took a chance... I oppsed up, never denied it :y

Why worry about what does or doesn't fit in the 2.2 if it's a just in case car? More to the point why even keep it, like I said you've plenty else to be worried about...
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 20:05:16
Why keep 2.2? Errr so I can get to work   ;)
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2014, 20:09:15
Why keep 2.2? Errr so I can get to work   ;)
Having established that the 3.2 only costs an extra 6ppm, and you can use the bike for half the days...
Keeping the shed makes no sense... practically or physically ???
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2014, 20:13:25
Why keep 2.2? Errr so I can get to work   ;)
Having established that the 3.2 only costs an extra 6ppm, and you can use the bike for half the days...
Keeping the shed makes no sense... practically or physically ???
He's attached to the old bus. As irrational as that is, I can relate to that
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 20:15:19
Why keep 2.2? Errr so I can get to work   ;)
Having established that the 3.2 only costs an extra 6ppm, and you can use the bike for half the days...
Keeping the shed makes no sense... practically or physically ???

6p saving only after converting. 2.2 is currently around 12p mile cost, 3.2 on petrol is 23p ;)

Decision made. Estate joins my fleet as mum bus. 3.2 for sale :)
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2014, 20:18:31
Attachment I get :y Ignoring the overwhelming practicalities of family life, I don't :-\

Sounds like some sense has finally sunk in though :y
Title: Re: lpg convertion...
Post by: tunnie on 11 June 2014, 20:24:50
Attachment I get :y Ignoring the overwhelming practicalities of family life, I don't :-\

Sounds like some sense has finally sunk in though :y

My plan was always to have 3.2 as mum-car, it's condition inside and out made it ideal.

However it quickly became apparent, we needed more space.

The Estate fills that void, it's had a lot done to it and should be good for a couple of years easy, just needs a fresh belt.

So family well catered for, lots of space with the Estate  :y - As you say doors work better, boot space is better than Zafira too. Damn site better on a 2 hour drive to Wales too!

I do understand why others see my beat up 2.2 shed as something to chuck, but 9 years ownership, nearly 100k it's done what ever I've asked for it. Still like driving it  :y

Will fix it's air-con and be happy with the fleet.  :)