Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 13 July 2014, 15:38:39
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....I'm wanting one for my kit. I want to try it on the miggy (I don't believe I have a hg problem) but was wondering if the size of the hole in the expansion tank is too wide to get this thing to suck up fumes. the ones ive seen used were on radiators with the cap. the one im looking at is a generic one...
not seen any ''expansion tank specific'' ones
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/161264351429?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0
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Have that kit in my garage, used it on the wife's Land Rover
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thanks joff. was it an expansion tank like the omega or rad?
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Expansion tank, mine is a Draper one and fits the mig tank :y
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Expansion tank, mine is a Draper one and fits the mig tank :y
Cheers mate!
You got this one, Joff?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Expert-23257-Combustion-Detector/dp/B009X95X38
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Yep :y
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I recon you could make one easily enough......the indicator fluid is only a Ph detector in solution, you bubble the gas through the fluid and it produces carbonic acid and causes the colour change.
So get a bong and connect the tobacco connection to the header tank, fill the bottle with a solution which contains universal indicator solution and let the gas (if there is any) bubble through....
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So get a bong and....
Webby's next post will be about brownies.. ;D
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I recon you could make one easily enough......the indicator fluid is only a Ph detector in solution, you bubble the gas through the fluid and it produces carbonic acid and causes the colour change.
So get a bong and connect the tobacco connection to the header tank, fill the bottle with a solution which contains universal indicator solution and let the gas (if there is any) bubble through....
Don't think that would go down to well if they found out at work i used or even had a Bong ;D ;D :o :o :D
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;D ;D ;D
i dont have a bong but i do have a shisher pipe (spell check)
same principle...... isnt it? ::) ;D ;D
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Totally unreliable on the omega ime. Dk car sales put one on my old cdx which gave a "might be" borderline result. There are also numerous mentions if these misdiagnosing failed hg on here, and as we know, the omega is often misdiagnosed for failed hg.
I wonder if the fact the coolant system leaks like sieve is prone to the odd leak, affects results. As the CDX had a profuse oil cooler cover plate leak at the time. Hence the test in the first place.
Luckily I found oof results on line that helped me fix the leak. Job done.
I wouldn't trust one on the results alone without other evidence to support it, at best.
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Totally unreliable on the omega ime. Dk car sales put one on my old cdx which gave a "might be" borderline result. There are also numerous mentions if these misdiagnosing failed hg on here, and as we know, the omega is often misdiagnosed for failed hg.
I wonder if the fact the coolant system leaks like sieve is prone to the odd leak, affects results. As the CDX had a profuse oil cooler cover plate leak at the time. Hence the test in the first place.
Luckily I found oof results on line that helped me fix the leak. Job done.
I wouldn't trust one on the results alone without other evidence to support it, at best.
On the wife's land rover TD5 the cooling system was/is still being pressurised by exhaust gasses, pushing coolant out past overflow on header tank, get a very good indication with the kit fluid turning yellow. never used it on a Mig, but it will fit.
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Totally unreliable on the omega ime. Dk car sales put one on my old cdx which gave a "might be" borderline result. There are also numerous mentions if these misdiagnosing failed hg on here, and as we know, the omega is often misdiagnosed for failed hg.
I wonder if the fact the coolant system leaks like sieve is prone to the odd leak, affects results. As the CDX had a profuse oil cooler cover plate leak at the time. Hence the test in the first place.
Luckily I found oof results on line that helped me fix the leak. Job done.
I wouldn't trust one on the results alone without other evidence to support it, at best.
Completely agree. To be honest i'm wondering whether to even bother. i got a compression test kit already so could just use that. but i just fancied it cos of the ease of use
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Pps, if i did a coolant pressure test and the HG had gone, i'd definitely see bubbles in the expansion tank, right?
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I was going up say don't bother, but they may be more accurate on other cars. I dunno.
If it's just for an omega, well, I have no desire to own one put it that way.
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Pps, if i did a coolant pressure test and the HG had gone, i'd definitely see bubbles in the expansion tank, right?
No, other way round if engine off. You'd be forcing the coolant out past the hg, so into the bore, or in to fresh air if hg failed externally.
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So really then to be absolutely certain of a HG diagnosis (as we cant see in to the bore) and block testers are unreliable is a leak down test?
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Pps, if i did a coolant pressure test and the HG had gone, i'd definitely see bubbles in the expansion tank, right?
No, other way round if engine off. You'd be forcing the coolant out past the hg, so into the bore, or in to fresh air if hg failed externally.
On the TD5 engine the cylinder head moves as they used plastic locator pins on build which over time snap and head moves just a small amount. This allows exhaust gas to get into coolant system which is then pressureised by the gas, and that's how you pick it up with the kit.
No plastic pins on a Mig :y
I would use a compression tester if you have that, but that could show a low reading for a few things
1. Valves
2. Piston rings
3. Head gasket to air
to name but 3 :y
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I would say that you need to consider what this test is telling you , it does nothing more than detect to see of there is carbon dioxide in the coolant system.
Similarly, leak down tests tell you that there is some escape of pressure from the bores.
Compression test tells you peak compression for a cylinder.
As there is no such thing as a 'head gasket failed' test you have to use observation of symptoms to make the diagnosis and its this that modern mechanics are bloody awful at. :y
Classic example, on a 3.0 Omega V6 not one of the above tests will give any indication of the classic head gasket failure on that engine type.....
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Pps, if i did a coolant pressure test and the HG had gone, i'd definitely see bubbles in the expansion tank, right?
No, other way round if engine off. You'd be forcing the coolant out past the hg, so into the bore, or in to fresh air if hg failed externally.
On the TD5 engine the cylinder head moves as they used plastic locator pins on build which over time snap and head moves just a small amount. This allows exhaust gas to get into coolant system which is then pressureised by the gas, and that's how you pick it up with the kit.
No plastic pins on a Mig :y
I would use a compression tester if you have that, but that could show a low reading for a few things
1. Valves
2. Piston rings
3. Head gasket to air
to name but 3 :y
Thats right. Then a leak down would pin point where the failure was :y
Really was just trying to find out if there was any other way cos although i have a compression tester, i dont have compressed air for a leak down test.
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I would say that you need to consider what this test is telling you , it does nothing more than detect to see of there is carbon dioxide in the coolant system.
Similarly, leak down tests tell you that there is some escape of pressure from the bores.
Compression test tells you peak compression for a cylinder.
As there is no such thing as a 'head gasket failed' test you have to use observation of symptoms to make the diagnosis and its this that modern mechanics are bloody awful at. :y
Classic example, on a 3.0 Omega V6 not one of the above tests will give any indication of the classic head gasket failure on that engine type.....
Very true Mark. but with a leak down test youd see bubbles in the coolant confirming HG failure so surely that is the one and only sure fire test.
struggling to understand why particularly this wouldnt work to find a hg failure on a 3.0 v6 mig? :-\
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I would say that you need to consider what this test is telling you , it does nothing more than detect to see of there is carbon dioxide in the coolant system.
Similarly, leak down tests tell you that there is some escape of pressure from the bores.
Compression test tells you peak compression for a cylinder.
As there is no such thing as a 'head gasket failed' test you have to use observation of symptoms to make the diagnosis and its this that modern mechanics are bloody awful at. :y
Classic example, on a 3.0 Omega V6 not one of the above tests will give any indication of the classic head gasket failure on that engine type.....
Very true Mark. but with a leak down test youd see bubbles in the coolant confirming HG failure so surely that is the one and only sure fire test.
struggling to understand why particularly this wouldnt work to find a hg failure on a 3.0 v6 mig? :-\
That would be the same as system being pressurised when running, are you losing coolant?
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I would say that you need to consider what this test is telling you , it does nothing more than detect to see of there is carbon dioxide in the coolant system.
Similarly, leak down tests tell you that there is some escape of pressure from the bores.
Compression test tells you peak compression for a cylinder.
As there is no such thing as a 'head gasket failed' test you have to use observation of symptoms to make the diagnosis and its this that modern mechanics are bloody awful at. :y
Classic example, on a 3.0 Omega V6 not one of the above tests will give any indication of the classic head gasket failure on that engine type.....
Very true Mark. but with a leak down test youd see bubbles in the coolant confirming HG failure so surely that is the one and only sure fire test.
struggling to understand why particularly this wouldnt work to find a hg failure on a 3.0 v6 mig? :-\
You might see bubbles but the pressures used on a leak down test are but mere fractions of that seen during the combustion stage so don't consider it a good test.
Your also making a fundamental error in that you assume that a head gasket always fails around the fire rings....... :y
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Thanks Mark,
But as I'm in danger of getting boggled by basic science....
if these tests wouldnt work whats the procedure for diagnosing a bad HG on the omega? obviously compression test will tell you if youre losing pressure. a leak down will then tell you if theres a leak around fire rings. and a coolant pressure test will show you external leaking cylinder head (thus HG).
Surely theres no more tests you can perform other than the block test and collating other symptoms (over heating, mayo in the oil etc)?
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PS not trying to be awkward.... just trying to understand it :)
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Well given that 3.0 V6 head gasket tends to result in coolant loss at the rear of the 2-4-6 bank cylinder head, this is only like to show up with a coolant system pressure test.
Similarly, you could do a pressure test and find loss coolant into a cylinder, diag a head gasket and find the liner is dropped or cracked.
so many possibles, variation on engine type and design etc......no conclusive answer and hence why a good mechanic looks at all symptom's before making a judgement.
Not what you want to hear I know... ;D
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Well given that 3.0 V6 head gasket tends to result in coolant loss at the rear of the 2-4-6 bank cylinder head, this is only like to show up with a coolant system pressure test.
Similarly, you could do a pressure test and find loss coolant into a cylinder, diag a head gasket and find the liner is dropped or cracked.
so many possibles, variation on engine type and design etc......no conclusive answer and hence why a good mechanic looks at all symptom's before making a judgement.
Not what you want to hear I know... ;D
Take the head off and have a look :y
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Well given that 3.0 V6 head gasket tends to result in coolant loss at the rear of the 2-4-6 bank cylinder head, this is only like to show up with a coolant system pressure test.
Similarly, you could do a pressure test and find loss coolant into a cylinder, diag a head gasket and find the liner is dropped or cracked.
so many possibles, variation on engine type and design etc......no conclusive answer and hence why a good mechanic looks at all symptom's before making a judgement.
Not what you want to hear I know... ;D
No, that makes sense. But essentially the more tests you do the more evidence you have.
I';ve not heard of a cracked liner on one of these cars. Have you? i have heard of them on rovers.... ::)
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Dry liners so much less likely to occur....hence the 'different design' statement
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As for the aforementioned Rover.... i'm sure what happened was the symptom was water in the oil. HG was replaced (being a Rover) and it kept happening. Stripped the sump off and watched water pee out in to the oil. Terrible design.
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Another tuppence.
A pressure test won't show bubbles in the coolant bottle if the hg has failed externally, as Mark describes on the omega 98 3.0 litre for example. It will, however, show coolant leaking from behind pot 6 as said.
Iirc the 3.0 hg is a composite type with metal fire rings around the bore. Obviously the metal fire rings will be last to corrode, so the composite fails.... Externally. :)
Therefor, you won't see bubbles in the coolant bottle. Only if the fire rings fail.
Obviously the superior 3.2 has a metal hg. ;D
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I use to sell lots of these and majority used on header tanks like the Omega....designed to sniff the gasses if any that are escaping into the cooling system and if so the fluid will change colour....silly i know but once the fluid is used for testing,,,do not return it into the bottle.........a very similar test can be carried out by holding the wand on the emissions tester over the aperture of the header tank at that will give a reading on the scale if leaking.although the fluid test is better :y