Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: chrisgixer on 20 August 2014, 18:54:43
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....to match a ball joint shaft cone shape. Such as that in an omega hub or centre tie rod etc
How do dat den...? And no an off the shelf taper drill doesn't give the right angle. :(
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Taper reamer? You would need to be able to hold the item acurately
.http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/how-drill-tapered-hole-205835/
When I was a lot younger I needed a similar job doing and ended up taking it to Premier Screw and Repetition Engineering in Leicester. Must be somewhere similar near yourself.
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Do you feel lucky?
I don't think you will be able to hand cut a taper good enough to be used in the steering system.
The 'safe' way would be to spend a load of time perusing parts catalogues to find ball joints that have the correct taper to fit you steering arms and correct threads to fit your rack.
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You need an off the shelf taper drill of the correct angle :P
Or, actually, a "ball bin reamer": http://www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=080540000000&Tool=198
These folks might have one cheaper under another name: http://www.mscdirect.co.uk
Now when you've recovered from the price.. is the hole already "almost" right? If so I'm told an old track rod end cut off and put in a drill along with a lot of grinding paste will get you there (commonly done building Pilgrim Sumos to make the TREs fit the Sierra uprights)
What angle are the TREs?
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A good old fashioned engineering shop is what you need :y
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A good old fashioned engineering shop is what you need :y
:y :y
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A good old fashioned engineering shop is what you need :y
Oh now come on Al, where's the fun in that..? ::) ;) ;D
Probably cost £100 to.... Mmmmyeah maybe not ;D
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You need an off the shelf taper drill of the correct angle :P
Or, actually, a "ball bin reamer": http://www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=080540000000&Tool=198
These folks might have one cheaper under another name: http://www.mscdirect.co.uk
Now when you've recovered from the price.. is the hole already "almost" right? If so I'm told an old track rod end cut off and put in a drill along with a lot of grinding paste will get you there (commonly done building Pilgrim Sumos to make the TREs fit the Sierra uprights)
What angle are the TREs?
Christ almighty :o
Answers my question though thanks Aaron. :y
I'm not at the point where I'm ready for absolute final finishing yet, I just need to get the sizes of everything lined up, in right place and not fouling. It all needs to be in place to finalise that so I'll just drill a hole to the larger size for now. Once I'm sure its going to work, and the position of the inner ball joints is correct, that will be the time to invest in one if those little buggers. :y
Edit to add, I'm on the mark 1 version currently ;D
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You need an off the shelf taper drill of the correct angle :P
Or, actually, a "ball bin reamer": http://www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=080540000000&Tool=198
These folks might have one cheaper under another name: http://www.mscdirect.co.uk
Now when you've recovered from the price.. is the hole already "almost" right? If so I'm told an old track rod end cut off and put in a drill along with a lot of grinding paste will get you there (commonly done building Pilgrim Sumos to make the TREs fit the Sierra uprights)
What angle are the TREs?
Christ almighty :o
Answers my question though thanks Aaron. :y
I'm not at the point where I'm ready for absolute final finishing yet, I just need to get the sizes of everything lined up, in right place and not fouling. It all needs to be in place to finalise that so I'll just drill a hole to the larger size for now. Once I'm sure its going to work, and the position of the inner ball joints is correct, that will be the time to invest in one if those little buggers. :y
Edit to add, I'm on the mark 1.5/6 version currently ;D
Fixed ;D
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One rack with cranked travel bar.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/B4B9BCAE-5D29-478E-BEDA-7ACA9C460B1E_zpstmjos9gf.jpg)
Very rough mock up so far, the two witches teach you can see sticking up on the travel bar are the desired position for the inner track rod ball joints, and will be sited either side of the sump.
Hopefully the two "teeth" are long enough to cover all eventualities and will be hopefully drilled about half way up for tre ball joint position.
Once that's correct I'll probably make another one all in one piece, with ends bent 90degrees and the "teeth" cut out if one piece, so no welds can fail.
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Good effort :y
Presumably you just now need to find a way to mount the rack to the chassis in line with the original position of the tie bar :-\
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Good effort :y
Presumably you just now need to find a way to mount the rack to the chassis in line with the original position of the tie bar :-\
That's the next bit. Yes.
Speaking of aligning with the tie bar. Did you know, that the ball joints for the idler and pitman arm on the centre tie rod, align perfectly with the wishbone pivot points? NOT the inner track rod ball joint, as you might expect, which Are sited outboard of the wishbone pivot centre line.
So what I hear people cry...? (Well some might anyway ;D ) well, the accepted ideal for rack position is to a range it(or a box mechanism) so the inner ball joints are in line with the wishbone pivot, or you get bump steer.
The omegas inner ball joints are in the wrong place, if you accept that theory.
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Probably to prevent/limit vertical load on the tie bar as the wishbones move up and down, as it makes it impossible for suspension travel to vertically affect the ends of the tie bar... I think ::)
If the rack width allows it, using plates from the steering box/idler mountings run forward along the inside edge of the chassis rails should keep the area clear for the exhausts... :-\
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Probably to prevent/limit vertical load on the tie bar as the wishbones move up and down, as it makes it impossible for suspension travel to vertically affect the ends of the tie bar... I think ::)
If the rack width allows it, using plates from the steering box/idler mountings run forward along the inside edge of the chassis rails should keep the area clear for the exhausts... :-\
I think the inner ball joints are compromised because, they couldn't put the idler and box ball joints anywhere else. They couldn't come in board, as that would mean moving the steering box into the engine bay more than an inch, and they couldn't move the box outboard as the body is in the way.
So they put the tre ball joints as close to the ideal as they could.
The delights of packaging.
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Packaging... isn't that management speak for compromised design ::)
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Packaging... isn't that management speak for compromised design ::)
Yes indeed. But I sympathise in this case. A straight rack isn't possible. As defined by the u shape of the centre tie bar.
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I take it the tweo 'teeth' are spaced to match the ends of the tie bar :-\
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Surely this is where you ask the master very very nicely ::)
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I take it the tweo 'teeth' are spaced to match the ends of the tie bar :-\
Nearly. Teeth are spaced to match the centre lines of the wishbone pivot points. Which is tricky, as they are not parallel, son it depends where the travel bar sits for and aft. Like I said, mk1, hence the rather rough appearance. But gota start somewhere.
There will have to be a guide, to prevent twisting, which will depend on ride height>bump>wishbone and hence track rod angle pushing the travel bar up and down. This will bind the rack on the pinion gear.
It's also evident when turning the pinion shaft, due to the pinion angle, the rack twists slightly. Not normally an issue as the track rods are normally on the end of the rack. So the position if the inner ball joint won't move. But with the travel bar, a slight twist, and it's only slight, then the inner tre position moves up when turning left, and down when turning right.
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Surely this is where you ask the master very very nicely ::)
Why should he get all the fun? ;D
This isn't a project of any urgency. As you may of noticed ;D it's a learning process as much as anything.