Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: TheBoy on 03 September 2014, 19:56:13

Title: LPG v Diesel
Post by: TheBoy on 03 September 2014, 19:56:13
I filled the Battlebus up yesterday, as it took exception to being thrown around a big roundabout about 25 miles after the fuel light started to flash.

Over the tank, 29.0mpg, with the brim to brim method, cost £1.297 pl at Asda (cheapest around, plus about the only place I could make it too ::))

I filled the Silver Bullet up today, 18.2mpg, brim to brim, cost £0.699 pl at the local BP (convenience, rather than cost).


I'll let you do the maths, but I can assure you which is the most fun, most comfortable, and the safest. Why wouldn't you want LPG?
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 03 September 2014, 20:07:26
But you'll be ragging that Diseasel within beyond an inch of its life for every second its engine is running. ;D
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: TheBoy on 03 September 2014, 20:12:53
But you'll be ragging that Diseasel within beyond an inch of its life for every second its engine is running. ;D
By implication, I don't with the Bullet...  :-X
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 September 2014, 20:23:58
But you'll be ragging that Diseasel within beyond an inch of its life for every second its engine is running. ;D
By implication, I don't with the Bullet...  :-X
At 69ppl, why not ::)
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: zirk on 03 September 2014, 20:31:54
For someone like me who spends most of the time bumper to bumper in London, a 3.2 Auto Lpg vs Diesel could be questionable, but once on a run LPG makes sense. Having said that we did have some fun in my mates Audi V8 Diesel last weekend.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: r1 on 03 September 2014, 21:34:46
but does lpg do any damage long term?
I was told that as car engines where not  designed to run on lpg and as it burns hotter it will cause damage to the valves etc?
true or false?
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: TheBoy on 03 September 2014, 21:40:14
but does lpg do any damage long term?
I was told that as car engines where not  designed to run on lpg and as it burns hotter it will cause damage to the valves etc?
true or false?
Some engines have hard valve seats (Fords mainly), so need a valve lubricant (flashlube). Omega V6 engines are not suspectical.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 September 2014, 21:40:42
Having just done a bit of a road trip in the Westfield, I was shocked how much a relatively frugal (high 30's to the gallion) petrol car costs to run these days. :o

More than an LPG'd 3.2, that's for sure. :y
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 September 2014, 21:41:21
Some engines have hard soft valve seats (Fords mainly), so need a valve lubricant (flashlube). Omega V6 engines are not suspectical as crap.

Translated. :y
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 03 September 2014, 21:45:05
but does lpg do any damage long term?
I was told that as car engines where not  designed to run on lpg and as it burns hotter it will cause damage to the valves etc?
true or false?

Mine was converted to LPG at around 50,000 and has just gone over 223,000 and is still going strong!  :y

Well, apart from a few issues that any V6 with that sort of miles would have...  ::)  :-[  ;D
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: D on 03 September 2014, 21:48:36
-Cost of conversion
-Difficulty finding a decent converter
-Hopefully within a 100 mile radius, usually more!
-Space lost due to LPG tank
-Holes in the bodywork
-Loss in resale value
-General fear and ignorance re: LPG
-Valve saver or not?
-Women dont like filling up with lpg, the last one I saw was trying to bash the filler in rather than rotate it!
-Service- most standard garages loathe to take on LPG fitted vehicles
-Paucity of filling stations

Need I go on?

I love my LPG'd 3.2. Would I LPG my next car? Not sure at all.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 03 September 2014, 21:56:59

omega doesnt have problem with lpg mechanically ..  but injector wiring may cause problems if done by a poor installation..

lpg installers told me 3 cars have problem with lpg


mazda, honda civic and alfa romeo because of those valve seats ..  :-\ 


but from experience never seen a civic with an lpg problem..  ???
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 03 September 2014, 22:09:37
-Cost of conversion
-Difficulty finding a decent converter
-Hopefully within a 100 mile radius, usually more!
-Space lost due to LPG tank
-Holes in the bodywork
-Loss in resale value
-General fear and ignorance re: LPG
-Valve saver or not?
-Women dont like filling up with lpg, the last one I saw was trying to bash the filler in rather than rotate it!
-Service- most standard garages loathe to take on LPG fitted vehicles
-Paucity of filling stations

Need I go on?

I love my LPG'd 3.2. Would I LPG my next car? Not sure at all.

I'll give you tank space, although upright toroidal options need exploring more on here.
And I'll give you fuddled women.


Oof solves ALL others. ;)


( loads of garages round here, and can usually find one without much agro tbh. )
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: TheBoy on 03 September 2014, 22:11:20
Mrs TB is more than happy to fill the Omegas with LPG. Its the battlebus she hates filling...  ...on cost grounds ;D
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: henryd on 03 September 2014, 22:34:26
Some engines have hard soft valve seats (Fords mainly), so need a valve lubricant (flashlube). Omega V6 engines are not suspectical as crap.

Translated. :y

Lol ;D
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: D on 04 September 2014, 01:20:03


I'll give you tank space, although upright toroidal options need exploring more on here.
And I'll give you fuddled women.


Oof solves ALL others. ;)


( loads of garages round here, and can usually find one without much agro tbh. )

What about a non omega or a newly acquired car? Would you LPG it with as much confidence?

This one? (http://www.howemotors.co.uk/used-cars/mercedes-benz-e-class-e63k-4dr-tip-auto-barry-201408216778008)
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 04 September 2014, 09:02:39
Question is, why wouldn't YOU?


Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 04 September 2014, 09:51:39
honestly, I wouldnt prefer my car to be drilled here and there.. 


also even the omega is an fairly known car,  some problems cant be pointed that much easy and obviously lpg installation complicates the case and requires further "investigation"  ;D


but answering the title.. diesel never..  I would much prefer lpg



Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 04 September 2014, 10:38:38
honestly, I wouldnt prefer my car to be drilled here and there.. 




Usually a sign of a lazy fitter. There are numerous options for the filler, from number plate flaps to under toeing eye covers to along side the petrol filler under the filler flap.

The trick is to buy the car that suits LPG, not just by any old car and hope it works.

As far as I'm aware;
 Avoid anything French, which goes without saying anyway.
Avoid anything ford as the seats are too soft, this includes Jaguar. Sadly. Especially the mondeo jags.
BMW. Will take take LPG but expect the eml to be on constantly due to overly tight and fussy engine management parameters.

Frankly if your that fussy about filter locations you can't moan about fuel prices.


Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: 05omegav6 on 04 September 2014, 11:08:53
Hence the consideration of a 1.8 Zafira... engine converts well, spare wheel is underslung, which increases tank options, and with a tow bar no need to drill any of the bodywork for the filler, and all the plumbing is outside the car, so fewer installation considerations... :y
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: BazaJT on 04 September 2014, 21:23:24
Unfortunately lpg is not a viable option for me,on the grounds that I just don't do the mileage to justify/offset the cost of having the system installed.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: 05omegav6 on 04 September 2014, 23:27:34
Depends how much fuel you get through, but you'll save 50p on every litre you buy from the moment the system is installed... And if you live somewhere a bit rural you can get a tank installed which would probably save you another 10-15ppl :y
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 04 September 2014, 23:33:01
Unfortunately lpg is not a viable option for me,on the grounds that I just don't do the mileage to justify/offset the cost of having the system installed.

Buy a car that's already had a system installed.  :y
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: D on 04 September 2014, 23:59:18


Usually a sign of a lazy fitter. There are numerous options for the filler, from number plate flaps to under toeing eye covers to along side the petrol filler under the filler flap.

The trick is to buy the car that suits LPG, not just by any old car and hope it works.

As far as I'm aware;
 Avoid anything French, which goes without saying anyway.
Avoid anything ford as the seats are too soft, this includes Jaguar. Sadly. Especially the mondeo jags.
BMW. Will take take LPG but expect the eml to be on constantly due to overly tight and fussy engine management parameters.

Frankly if your that fussy about filter locations you can't moan about fuel prices.

Ok, so LPG limits my buying options. Surely not a great thing is it?

Also with so many manufacturers moving to direct injection with a dearth of LPG systems that can handle direct injection, I suspect LPG will die soon, unless you can overcome this issue.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: andrew38 on 05 September 2014, 08:50:24



Also with so many manufacturers moving to direct injection with a dearth of LPG systems that can handle direct injection, I suspect LPG will die soon, unless you can overcome this issue.

This has already been overcome by Prins for some manufacturers like Audi and even GM direct injection engine, they do a direct injection lpg liquid system which uses the cars original fuel injectors, does away with the inefficient vapour systems currently in use think its called liquigas V2 or something similar.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: Entwood on 05 September 2014, 10:00:54



Also with so many manufacturers moving to direct injection with a dearth of LPG systems that can handle direct injection, I suspect LPG will die soon, unless you can overcome this issue.

This has already been overcome by Prins for some manufacturers like Audi and even GM direct injection engine, they do a direct injection lpg liquid system which uses the cars original fuel injectors, does away with the inefficient vapour systems currently in use think its called liquigas V2 or something similar.

Close ... :)

LiquiMax ....   :)

http://www.prinsautogas.com/en/products/directliquimax_system/directliquimax_system.html
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: andrew38 on 05 September 2014, 10:20:23
Thats the one, brain turned to mush as I posted. Not read any reviews on it but looks interesting. I did a piece on different LPG induction systems for powerboats a few years back and the system was just starting to be developed. I particually liked it because it did not compromise efficiently like the current vapour systems do, though I would imagine the trick is keep the LPG in liquid form to the injectors, I would like to see the system in operation.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 September 2014, 10:33:49


Also with so many manufacturers moving to direct injection with a dearth of LPG systems that can handle direct injection, I suspect LPG will die soon, unless you can overcome this issue.

This has already been overcome by Prins for some manufacturers like Audi and even GM direct injection engine, they do a direct injection lpg liquid system which uses the cars original fuel injectors, does away with the inefficient vapour systems currently in use think its called liquigas V2 or something similar.


yep.. but imo still too early .. when I asked prices were sky high for prins and teleflex..
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 September 2014, 12:47:10
Too high for who though? If you can afford an amg 6.3 Merc ::)
 
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 September 2014, 12:56:29


Usually a sign of a lazy fitter. There are numerous options for the filler, from number plate flaps to under toeing eye covers to along side the petrol filler under the filler flap.

The trick is to buy the car that suits LPG, not just by any old car and hope it works.

As far as I'm aware;
 Avoid anything French, which goes without saying anyway.
Avoid anything ford as the seats are too soft, this includes Jaguar. Sadly. Especially the mondeo jags.
BMW. Will take take LPG but expect the eml to be on constantly due to overly tight and fussy engine management parameters.

Frankly if your that fussy about filter locations you can't moan about fuel prices.

Ok, so LPG limits my buying options. Surely not a great thing is it?

Also with so many manufacturers moving to direct injection with a dearth of LPG systems that can handle direct injection, I suspect LPG will die soon, unless you can overcome this issue.

...and one has to wonder, given this huge list of dislikes D has for LPG, why he chose to get his own omega converted to gas? The big Mary. ;D
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: D on 05 September 2014, 21:48:15

This has already been overcome by Prins for some manufacturers like Audi and even GM direct injection engine, they do a direct injection lpg liquid system which uses the cars original fuel injectors, does away with the inefficient vapour systems currently in use think its called liquigas V2 or something similar.

I am aware of that, but have yet to see a successful install in the UK. And current prices are .. lets say not really affordable.

Other issues:
-No V8 version available so far, so supercharged Range Rovers and the like are not convertible.
-Most systems are manufacturer specific, so one size doesnt fit all, like they currently do.
-As far as I can make out, the systems need to inject a small amount of petrol to keep the injectors from getting damaged. So the so called current saving of LPG will diminish.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: D on 05 September 2014, 21:54:44

...and one has to wonder, given this huge list of dislikes D has for LPG, why he chose to get his own omega converted to gas? The big Mary. ;D

It was an experiment, on a very cheap car. I did not have much to loose if it all went t**s up!

Dont get me wrong, I enjoy the cheap motoring. But it has not been without its issues and I am not sure if I will convert my next car to run on LPG.
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 September 2014, 22:17:16
Too high for who though? If you can afford an amg 6.3 Merc ::)


2000 £ for teleflex ..   prins more.. and this is not an ignorable cost even for rich..
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 September 2014, 22:52:31
Too high for who though? If you can afford an amg 6.3 Merc ::)


2000 £ for teleflex ..   prins more.. and this is not an ignorable cost even for rich..

So no more than in installed Prins kit in v6 omega then. Is this in Turkey or uk?
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 September 2014, 23:01:23
Too high for who though? If you can afford an amg 6.3 Merc ::)


2000 £ for teleflex ..   prins more.. and this is not an ignorable cost even for rich..

So no more than in installed Prins kit in v6 omega then. Is this in Turkey or uk?


thats an international forum .. obviously members had to check the posters location :)
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 September 2014, 23:04:28
Too high for who though? If you can afford an amg 6.3 Merc ::)


2000 £ for teleflex ..   prins more.. and this is not an ignorable cost even for rich..

So no more than in installed Prins kit in v6 omega then. Is this in Turkey or uk?


thats an international forum .. obviously members had to check the posters location :)

Well yes that is often important. The members location I mean. Perhaps he/she might not be in Turkey. ;)
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 September 2014, 23:05:39

...and one has to wonder, given this huge list of dislikes D has for LPG, why he chose to get his own omega converted to gas? The big Mary. ;D

It was an experiment, on a very cheap car. I did not have much to loose if it all went t**s up!

Dont get me wrong, I enjoy the cheap motoring. But it has not been without its issues and I am not sure if I will convert my next car to run on LPG.

So diesel then?
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 September 2014, 23:09:59
Too high for who though? If you can afford an amg 6.3 Merc ::)


2000 £ for teleflex ..   prins more.. and this is not an ignorable cost even for rich..

So no more than in installed Prins kit in v6 omega then. Is this in Turkey or uk?


thats an international forum .. obviously members had to check the posters location :)

Well yes that is often important. The members location I mean. Perhaps he/she might not be in Turkey. ;)


wherever he/she is, it doesnt mean post is inapplicable ;)
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: r1 on 06 September 2014, 16:22:34

This has already been overcome by Prins for some manufacturers like Audi and even GM direct injection engine, they do a direct injection lpg liquid system which uses the cars original fuel injectors, does away with the inefficient vapour systems currently in use think its called liquigas V2 or something similar.

I am aware of that, but have yet to see a successful install in the UK. And current prices are .. lets say not really affordable.

Other issues:
-No V8 version available so far, so supercharged Range Rovers and the like are not convertible.
-Most systems are manufacturer specific, so one size doesnt fit all, like they currently do.
-As far as I can make out, the systems need to inject a small amount of petrol to keep the injectors from getting damaged. So the so called current saving of LPG will diminish.

ive seen a lexus v8 with lpg
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 06 September 2014, 20:56:30
Too high for who though? If you can afford an amg 6.3 Merc ::)


2000 £ for teleflex ..   prins more.. and this is not an ignorable cost even for rich..

So no more than in installed Prins kit in v6 omega then. Is this in Turkey or uk?


thats an international forum .. obviously members had to check the posters location :)

Well yes that is often important. The members location I mean. Perhaps he/she might not be in Turkey. ;)


wherever he/she is, it doesnt mean post is inapplicable ;)
... So you don't remember the (dare I say it) winter tyres discussion then cem? PMSL. We haven't had snow for there years since. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 06 September 2014, 21:04:45
Too high for who though? If you can afford an amg 6.3 Merc ::)


2000 £ for teleflex ..   prins more.. and this is not an ignorable cost even for rich..

So no more than in installed Prins kit in v6 omega then. Is this in Turkey or uk?


thats an international forum .. obviously members had to check the posters location :)

Well yes that is often important. The members location I mean. Perhaps he/she might not be in Turkey. ;)


wherever he/she is, it doesnt mean post is inapplicable ;)
... So you don't remember the (dare I say it) winter tyres discussion then cem? PMSL. We haven't had snow for there years since. ;D ;D ;D


and it doesnt mean you will not have snow  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: LPG v Diesel
Post by: chrisgixer on 06 September 2014, 21:07:50
Oh wait. Yes your right. I will rush out an buy some.


NOT! ;D