Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 11 September 2014, 19:31:30
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Car going at 20-25. Mash foot to floor. Steady build up of revs. Doing bit faster... 30-40 for example. Car kicks down and flies.
Is this right? Or should it kick down at those slower speeds too?
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Should be instant throw back into seat at any speed , well tis in 3.0 ??? Although depends how long you been driving around like Granny Bear ::) ;D
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Kicks down here at any speed? tried it again just for you ;D :y
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Should go like a stabbed rat at those heady speeds LOL
Is it same when in 'S'...?
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I feel like the kickdown works best on mine without sports mode, But as has been said it should throw you back into the seat either way ;D
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Yeah same in sports mode.
Wonder why. Any ideas? ill check the throttle cable isn't slack but pretty sure I did that before
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Usual cause is to much slack in the throttle cable on the cable throttle setups.
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Usual cause is to much slack in the throttle cable on the cable throttle setups.
Or the wrong engine on dbw cars ::)
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Usual cause is to much slack in the throttle cable on the cable throttle setups.
Or the wrong engine on dbw cars ::)
All DBW cars are the wrong engine ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :y
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Usual cause is to much slack in the throttle cable on the cable throttle setups.
Or the wrong engine on dbw cars ::)
All DBW cars are the wrong engine ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :y
Oooh, a cynic ;D
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Usual cause is to much slack in the throttle cable on the cable throttle setups.
Or the wrong engine on dbw cars ::)
All DBW cars are the wrong engine ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :y
Oooh, a cynic ;D
I have always considered the optimum to be a 3.2 block running 3.2 heads and manifolds with a 3.0 injection setup :y
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With a proper gearbox, I trust ::)
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Usual cause is to much slack in the throttle cable on the cable throttle setups.
Or the wrong engine on dbw cars ::)
All DBW cars are the wrong engine ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :y
Oooh, a cynic ;D
I have always considered the optimum to be a 3.2 block running 3.2 heads and manifolds with a 3.0 injection setup :y
And 3.0l pistons, to get the CR back up (and sod the tree huggers)
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And 3.0l pistons, to get the CR back up (and sod the tree huggers)
Might get a bit of piston slap on account of the 1.5mm clearance in the bores, mind. ::)
;)
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Usual cause is to much slack in the throttle cable on the cable throttle setups.
Or the wrong engine on dbw cars ::)
All DBW cars are the wrong engine ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :y
Oooh, a cynic ;D
I have always considered the optimum to be a 3.2 block running 3.2 heads and manifolds with a 3.0 injection setup :y
And 3.0l pistons, to get the CR back up (and sod the tree huggers)
Fit 2.5 heads with a bit of porting :y
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Torque Converter slipping a little too much? At those speeds, the Transmission should select 1st and you should expect a lively take-off.
Sports Mode makes no difference to WOT acceleration.
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Torque Converter slipping a little too much? At those speeds, the Transmission should select 1st and you should expect a lively take-off.
Sports Mode makes no difference to WOT acceleration.
Depends on the s/w version - some, even at WOT, change up too early
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Hi boys.
Just got back from holidays in Heacham. . . . . Omega paradise it seems. . . . Saw six or seven not inc. mine lol
Anyways.
I can't pin point it. It seems like sometimes when I floor it from sedately driving it kicks down and I get a surge u p to the red line. Other times it will just rev progressively but when it gets to about four k rpm it picks up.
I checked the multirams after the journey. Front one opens with a good hard blip of the throttle. Rear one I can't see working at all.
Confused.com
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And while I am here . . . Is it possible you can plug the rear multiram connector the wrong way round? :-[
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And while I am here . . . Is it possible you can plug the rear multiram connector the wrong way round? :-[
Only if you're a complete klutz and force it ::)
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And while I am here . . . Is it possible you can plug the rear multiram connector the wrong way round? :-[
Only if you're a complete klutz and force it ::)
Lol no, no forcing. . Just a nice click when it went home.
Will get another good look to see if that rear multiram is operating. I know it operates at low revs like around one k. Then it operates at very high revs. Any idea what I need to get engine to rev to before this operates at the top end of grad revs?
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And while I am here . . . Is it possible you can plug the rear multiram connector the wrong way round? :-[
Only if you're a complete klutz and force it ::)
Lol no, no forcing. . Just a nice click when it went home.
Will get another good look to see if that rear multiram is operating. I know it operates at low revs like around one k. Then it operates at very high revs. Any idea what I need to get engine to rev to before this operates at the top end of grad revs?
Have a read of THIS (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90513.0) and report back... :y
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Thanks Al, helpful as ever!
4100 rpm and they both activate. Will do a more thorough check in a few.
Am I to assume though that I would have the check engine light on if there was a problem (based on marks thread?
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Thanks Al, helpful as ever!
4100 rpm and they both activate. Will do a more thorough check in a few.
Am I to assume though that I would have the check engine light on if there was a problem (based on marks thread?
Depends how broken it is... if the wiring is intact, then the ecu knows no different, ergo no light :y
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Thanks Al, helpful as ever!
4100 rpm and they both activate. Will do a more thorough check in a few.
Am I to assume though that I would have the check engine light on if there was a problem (based on marks thread?
Depends how broken it is... if the wiring is intact, then the ecu knows no different, ergo no light :y
Thanks mate. Will check and update later on.
:y
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Rear one is very hard to activate by revving, ya gota give it loads. Beyond any mechanical sympathy. Or tech 2 to test.
Might there be a vac leak somewhere?
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Rear one is very hard to activate by revving, ya gota give it loads. Beyond any mechanical sympathy. Or tech 2 to test.
Might there be a vac leak somewhere?
Thanks Chris.
Thinking as long as it's warm it should be ok? :-\
I've gone round the whole engine with carb cleaner but not the multi ram piping. I'm thinking, after looking at marks vac pipe diagram, that I should look at all those connections and also the vac tanks?
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Rear one is very hard to activate by revving, ya gota give it loads. Beyond any mechanical sympathy. Or tech 2 to test.
Might there be a vac leak somewhere?
Thanks Chris.
Thinking as long as it's warm it should be ok? :-\
I've gone round the whole engine with carb cleaner but not the multi ram piping. I'm thinking, after looking at marks vac pipe diagram, that I should look at all those connections and also the vac tanks?
Ime a vac leak needs to be quite bad for enough crab cleaner to get in. ...and what might draw in air at 4k or so, may not do so at tickover. A physical inspection, and wite often a wiggle in conjunction with the mk1 ear 'ole for hissing and changes in rpm often give results. Squeazing rubber vac pipes, and feeling your way along the plastic ones etc
Often, vac leaks aren't visible, as what's rubbed through is in the way of the hole it created. As it would... So to speak. Often the rubber joins in the 4mm plastic pipe split down one side or one way valves fail.
It does sound like inconsistent vac feed to me. Causing sluggish multi ram operation and loss of torque. So you press harder on the throttle, to the point it kicks down.
Is fuel economy high?
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Thanks Chris. Fuel economy on the run seemed ok although I haven't checked it exactly. . . Half a tank for 170 miles. Roughly.
I'll do a physical inspection.
Wondering if at some point the thin multi ram lines have got muddled up. Then again, strange it's only recently seemed lacking in power
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Chris, just been searching the site for more posts and experiences on this multiple ram issue.
I noticed a post from you that said when you turn the engine off there is a fading hiss for a second or two. . . . . . Definitely got this!!!!! Always had it in fact. . . .
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ps are these the vac pipes to the pollen filter vac box?
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/vacp1_zps4d0b62c5.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/vacp1_zps4d0b62c5.jpg.html)
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and a quick pic of the pipes at front. none seem damaged and ive traced the front ones back and I believe theyre all in the right place.
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/vacp2_zps356734ca.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/vacp2_zps356734ca.jpg.html)
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Webby, after using the car, turn off, wait 2 or 3 minutes, then unplug the vac from one of the multirams. You should hear the air suck in, if you don't, you have a leak ;). And stop oppsing around with carb cleaner, it oppss every bit of rubber it touches, causing more grief!!
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Chris, just been searching the site for more posts and experiences on this multiple ram issue.
I noticed a post from you that said when you turn the engine off there is a fading hiss for a second or two. . . . . . Definitely got this!!!!! Always had it in fact. . . .
You have a leak. It should hold vac for a good few days. Although the hiss could be other things. Could be the brake servo line where it rubs on the ac pipes by the scuttle drain, just for example. But sumats not tight somewhere.
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Evening fellas. Thanks for your replies, really appreciate it.
Update!
Went for a Toby Cauvery tonight. . Mmmmmm. . . And got the wife to help me check the rear multiram. I told her to rev it quickly up to 5 grand and sure enough I observed the rear actuator move. This is of course good.
So evidence so far. . .
Lack of 'thrust' upon flooring the loud pedal. . . Progressive acceleration and not the 'push you in to the back of the seat that it should be.
Multi rams work.
Hissing when engine switched off.
So if the multirams are working can I reasonably assume that my multi ram vac lines are all good. Or could there still be a vac issue even with them working?
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When you floor it the manifold vacuum goes to nothing and the vacuum system relies on stored vacuum in the reservoir. Chris is right, fix the leak and you should feel a noticeable improvement :y
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Thanks Andy.
So in short, even though i've seen my multi rams perform..... the fact that i got a big hissing for a second or two after engine shut off means im still losing vacuum and thats causing the problem.
ill do as TB and chris say... ill run the car and then pull a few vac pipes to see if theres a loss of vacuum as a starting point. if i start with all the ones at the front multi rams then the t piece at the brake servo and the brake servo itself. good start point? :)
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Early cars had one reservoir shared by the multirams and the heating controls, later cars have two separate ones.
I was never conviced that the multirams on my 1994 car were working quite right, coincidence?, I don't think so.
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Thanks again Andy,
While on the subject of vac resevoirs... im presuming im looking for obvious damage / holes or vac pipe damage to the resvoir etc.?
Well thats easy on the front one. but how do i get my grubby paws on the rear one near the pollen fliter? looks deep in there lol
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The easiest to pull off Webby is the one going to rear multiram.
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The easiest to pull off Webby is the one going to rear multiram.
cheers mate :y
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just to add though..... is it not a tad strange that i can hear this vac leak on engine shut down yet ive found my multirams to be moving?
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just to add though..... is it not a tad strange that i can hear this vac leak on engine shut down yet ive found my multirams to be moving?
Nope
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just to add though..... is it not a tad strange that i can hear this vac leak on engine shut down yet ive found my multirams to be moving?
Not really.
If you rev to 5000 rpm with no load you are going to close the throttle again very quickly - before the vacuum has a chance to leak away again.
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just to add though..... is it not a tad strange that i can hear this vac leak on engine shut down yet ive found my multirams to be moving?
Not really.
If you rev to 5000 rpm with no load you are going to close the throttle again very quickly - before the vacuum has a chance to leak away again.
aha! so because i did this quick test whilst the car was stattionery (and not on the move with my foot continually down) then it will show its working.....but on the move my foots in there wanting acceleration and the vacuum disperses quickly, thus no pull.
i think i got ya. soz for all the Q's :y
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Rear one is very hard to activate by revving, ya gota give it loads. Beyond any mechanical sympathy. Or tech 2 to test.
Might there be a vac leak somewhere?
Thanks Chris.
Thinking as long as it's warm it should be ok? :-\
I've gone round the whole engine with carb cleaner but not the multi ram piping. I'm thinking, after looking at marks vac pipe diagram, that I should look at all those connections and also the vac tanks?
Ime a vac leak needs to be quite bad for enough crab cleaner to get in. ...and what might draw in air at 4k or so, may not do so at tickover. A physical inspection, and wite often a wiggle in conjunction with the mk1 ear 'ole for hissing and changes in rpm often give results. Squeazing rubber vac pipes, and feeling your way along the plastic ones etc
Often, vac leaks aren't visible, as what's rubbed through is in the way of the hole it created. As it would... So to speak. Often the rubber joins in the 4mm plastic pipe split down one side or one way valves fail.
It does sound like inconsistent vac feed to me. Causing sluggish multi ram operation and loss of torque. So you press harder on the throttle, to the point it kicks down.
Is fuel economy high?
This will be about as much use.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/tidla1/crabs-treatment_zps2a4b3e2a.jpg)
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90499.0
vacuum should be present at the "T" piece which goes to both rams. (should be able to test with your finger on the end of the pipe)
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Rear one is very hard to activate by revving, ya gota give it loads. Beyond any mechanical sympathy. Or tech 2 to test.
Might there be a vac leak somewhere?
Thanks Chris.
Thinking as long as it's warm it should be ok? :-\
I've gone round the whole engine with carb cleaner but not the multi ram piping. I'm thinking, after looking at marks vac pipe diagram, that I should look at all those connections and also the vac tanks?
Ime a vac leak needs to be quite bad for enough crab cleaner to get in. ...and what might draw in air at 4k or so, may not do so at tickover. A physical inspection, and wite often a wiggle in conjunction with the mk1 ear 'ole for hissing and changes in rpm often give results. Squeazing rubber vac pipes, and feeling your way along the plastic ones etc
Often, vac leaks aren't visible, as what's rubbed through is in the way of the hole it created. As it would... So to speak. Often the rubber joins in the 4mm plastic pipe split down one side or one way valves fail.
It does sound like inconsistent vac feed to me. Causing sluggish multi ram operation and loss of torque. So you press harder on the throttle, to the point it kicks down.
Is fuel economy high?
This will be about as much use.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/tidla1/crabs-treatment_zps2a4b3e2a.jpg)
Can't comment too much, as I've not tried it extensively.... Carb cleaner I mean ;D but strongly suspect its an old wives tale tbh. It "may" work to an extent, but needs so much to enter the inlet as to be pretty useless on small stuff like vac pipes and breathers. Plus those items go brittle enough through heat alone without carb cleaner adding to it, as groomer says.
...one day I might try it for the laugh though. Brake cleaner too perhaps?
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Maybe next time a certain admin needs an lpg kit fitted we could try his inlets.
.....again. :D ;D :P
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Have you any gravel left :-\
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Have you any gravel left :-\
ooh yes. Me can't have too much gravel. ;D
(...or a cracked egr pipe coupled with a stuck lifter combined to make a right racket)
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Crab cleaner lol
Just a quickie before i start pulling vac lines looking for a hissing.....
If i pull one do i then have to start the car again to build up the vacuum again to be able to check other pipes? Dont want to wrongly diagnose cos of a silly mistake like that :)
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Would pulling the vacuum lines at idle be of any benefit?
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Not really. :-\
I think the heater controls leak all the time & hence mess up the multiram operation. I also think that the non return valves get tired and dirty and therefore become unable to hold a vacuum.
The later arrangement with two vacuum tanks seems to 'just work'. It doesn't matter if the heater controls leak continuously and fill the vac tank with fluff because the multirams have their own dedicated tank which only operates intermittently and stays clean as a result.
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Thanks Andy.
I'll stick with the plan of pulling vac lines after engine shut off and report back post haste! :y
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Reet then boys n gals.
Ran the car for a couple of minutes. switched it off. pulled the following vac pipes... nothing! no hissing or any sense that vacuum was present. so irrespective of whether i manuyally made the atuators work... i have a definite leak, right?
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/vacp4_zps221ddb1d.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/vacp4_zps221ddb1d.jpg.html)
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The vac tank reservoirs hold the negative pressure with engine off. Or there is no source of vacuum at all. (So you won't get a hiss engine off if all is well.)
You need to pull the relevant pipes off those to hear any hiss. One behind the pollen filter housing. One on the back of the bag pipes. One pipe to res will be a vac feed, so will hiss, tother will have a one way valve so won't hiss. Assuming the one way valves are working of course.
Any other vac pipes you'll need the engine running.
At this stage I'd say you best bet is to find the source of the hiss with engine running. Identify and fix that. Then test that the vac tanks are holding negative pressure.
....or just test drive the car and see if there's an improvement. If you find a load more torque has returned, go put feet up with a beer, Bear! ;)
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The vac tank reservoirs hold the negative pressure with engine off. Or there is no source of vacuum at all. (So you won't get a hiss engine off if all is well.)
You need to pull the relevant pipes off those to hear any hiss. One behind the pollen filter housing. One on the back of the bag pipes. One pipe to res will be a vac feed, so will hiss, tother will have a one way valve so won't hiss. Assuming the one way valves are working of course.
Any other vac pipes you'll need the engine running.
At this stage I'd say you best bet is to find the source of the hiss with engine running. Identify and fix that. Then test that the vac tanks are holding negative pressure.
....or just test drive the car and see if there's an improvement. If you find a load more torque has returned, go put feet up with a beer, Bear! ;)
Thanks Chris.
You are well aware that, er, i'm pretty stoopid so mind if i just re-run that in my words so i understand........
The two vac resevoirs hold the vacuum with engine off. So i have to pull the vac feed line off the front resevoir and the vac feed line off the rear resevoir (behind pollen filter) to hear any hiss with engine off?
All other vac lines (like the ones i pulled off) will not hiss with engine off?
SO. I can check this hissing at the resevoirs. but i need to be finding the hissing with engine running.
whats the best way to do that?
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Mk 1 ear 'ole! ;)
Just pull the vac lines off the res one at a time, see what happens. Run the engine briefly in between each time you pull a pipe. But be sure to put the correct pipe back each time.
So, run engine, engine off, pull a pipe off the back of the tank on the bag pipes. Listen. Refit.
Run engine, pull tother pipe off, etc.
Do the bag pipes first as the other one is behind the pollen filter side of the scuttle.
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Spot on Chris, thanks for understanding that i am stoopid ;D and i do apologise for all the Q's but if i dont understand i hate it lol
Can i clarify that the front vac resevoir is this...
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/vacp5_zpsd57e70a3.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/vacp5_zpsd57e70a3.jpg.html)
And the rear one i'll have to trace back folling the vac lines. i'm presuming removing pollen filter itself would help. does the housing itself remove also as is a bit tight in there :-\
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theres a sketch of the pipes done by mark in the link above.
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i've seen the sketch but just wanted to make sure what i'm seeing on the car is the same as whats on that :y
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Webby - on your car, the vac tank pictured does both the front and rear multiram.
Said vac tank has a 1 way valve on it's inlet, essentially to allow the manifold to pull a vac in it, and then the vac tank can maintain a vac for a few multiram operations no matter what the manifold is doing (and obviously the manifold will keep maintaining the vac whenever possible.
So, you have either:
A leak in the pipes/rubbers/t-pieces from vac tank to multirams
A leak in the multiram solenoids
A failed one way valve in the vac tank's inlet <<<< LIKELY!
Vac tank incorrectly connected <<<< LIKELY if someone has been pissing around ;)
A leaking vac tank
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Webby - on your car, the vac tank pictured does both the front and rear multiram.
Said vac tank has a 1 way valve on it's inlet, essentially to allow the manifold to pull a vac in it, and then the vac tank can maintain a vac for a few multiram operations no matter what the manifold is doing (and obviously the manifold will keep maintaining the vac whenever possible.
So, you have either:
A leak in the pipes/rubbers/t-pieces from vac tank to multirams
A leak in the multiram solenoids
A failed one way valve in the vac tank's inlet <<<< LIKELY!
Vac tank incorrectly connected <<<< LIKELY if someone has been pissing around ;)
A leaking vac tank
TB, thanks very much for the post.
Pic again for clarity...
I ran engine for few mins. Pulled top pipe off the tank arrowed. Nothing. Ran engine again. Pulled bottom pipe off. Nothing. New vac tank? (It looks replaceable with two clips.... I presume that's correct and I don't have to buy the whole bagpipe assembly ::))
Thanks mate :y
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/vacp5_zpsd57e70a3.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/vacp5_zpsd57e70a3.jpg.html)
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Just fit a one way valve to the pipe feeding the tank ;)
Or I see RobG has one ;)
2 torx bolts.
Have you ruled out other areas of leakage?
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Just fit a one way valve to the pipe feeding the tank ;)
Or I see RobG has one ;)
2 torx bolts.
Have you ruled out other areas of leakage?
Thanks mate.
I've looked at all the pipes and I cant find any ''randoms'' just hanging loose.
I have been looking at Mark's diagram and I think I have it done correctly but I'm going to quadruple check.
In a few i'll post up where the various pipes from this vac box go just to double check.
Is it worth pursuing the vac box behind the pollen filter? I listened to it as ma switched car off and hiss is not coming from the pollen filter area. but I know not if this a definite diagnosis (although I hope so as that one behind the pollen filter looks a reet pita!)
:y
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Gooood morning fellas,
Think we have a diagnosis :)
Went out this morning and quadruple checked the routing against Mark's expert guide.
It's all spot on!
Undid the vac tank to inspect it. No obvious gouges or holes.
SO. This sounds like a new front vac reservoir needed?
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Pps, is the one way valve the small one on the vac reservoir? and presumably shouldn't let any air out when car switch off?
just checked on car and it lets all air out within a second or two (sounds like the hiss).
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Ok, thanks to rob g for sorting me out a new vac res.
I've gone out and checked the vac lines AGAIN lol definitely spot on and as per guide.
I've also checked all lines and t pieces and nothing is broken.
Now I've mulled this over and as the lines are hooked up correctly it has to be a bad reservoir. . . No hiss when I pull the smaller outlet line cos the bigger lines one way valve is allowing vacuum to escape.
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Not bumping guys, but thought I'd update with a resolution :)
RobG kindly sent me a replacement vac box. . . . . . I now have a hiss after I pull one of the multiram lines (the smaller one).
So, clearly the oneway valve was bad. Going to smash the old one open to inspect :)
Will be testing its power later :):):)
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....different car!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :)
Now got some god damn power between 2k and 4k RPM!!!!!!!
Cheers for all ya help guys :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
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Easy & cheap fix then Steve :y
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Easy & cheap fix then Steve :y
Spot on Rob :y
Thanks for quick n slick service as usual :y
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Glad to have been of help mate :)
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Glad to have been of help mate :)
Cheers mate :y
Smashed the old one open....
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/onewayv_zps38476f35.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/onewayv_zps38476f35.jpg.html)
There was a little bit of damage on that rubber gasket (?)........ I avoided smashing that with the hammer.
Not really sure how they fail cos its not like there's much stress there. having said that vacuum from engine is strong (ask my mate who put his fingers in a closed throttle body ::) ;D)