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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 27 December 2014, 11:38:00

Title: 400 miles
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 27 December 2014, 11:38:00
That's the reported range of Tesla's new Roadster.  :y  Seems like battery technology is coming along and I wonder how long it will be before electric cars become 'mainstream'. I like the idea of electric cars to be honest and if a 400 mile plus range became the norm and the cars were affordable, I think that I'd seriously consider one if buying a new car.   :y :y :y

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/26/us-tesla-roadster-upgrade-idUSKBN0K412O20141226
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Crazycarzowner on 27 December 2014, 11:41:47
The other thing to consider though is how long it takes to re-charge between stops?  ???
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Andy B on 27 December 2014, 11:47:10
and charging points are still thin on the ground at the moment. And there's a choice of three types of plug ... you'd have thought there would have been a common plug across all manufacturers  ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIS4J0XUO0
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 27 December 2014, 11:50:39
and charging points are still thin on the ground at the moment. And there's a choice of three types of plug ... you'd have thought there would have been a common plug across all manufacturers  ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIS4J0XUO0

I think with a 400 mile range charging points wouldn't be an issue for most as you'd charge at home, but I didn't know about the 3 different types of plug!  :o

So I could roll up at a charging point at a motorway services and find my plug incompatible with the charging point?  :-\
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Andy B on 27 December 2014, 12:44:09
.... but I didn't know about the 3 different types of plug!  :o
 ....

It was just a few months ago we parked up in a car park in Balloch and I had a nosey at the charging station/point and I saw there were three different plugs  ???
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Andy B on 27 December 2014, 12:45:02
.....

I think with a 400 mile range charging points wouldn't be an issue for most as you'd charge at home,  ....

Not the car you'd use to go from London to Inverness in then  ::)
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: The Sheriff on 27 December 2014, 12:57:21
We've got a charging point in our garage, fitted free about six years ago apparently. It would probably be the wrong plug for modern milk floats, but surely could be changed?
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Nick W on 27 December 2014, 13:06:57
You should also be concerned about how many charging points there are, and how many of them are working. An example: the M2 and M20 services have 3points between them, and only two are working. A Leaf needs 45mins for a two-thirds charge(I believe), which doesn't sound too bad, but what if it's already in use?
The infrastructure and battery technology are simply inadequate for fully electric cars to be viable for anything other than short trips.
And that's before we get into how the huge increase in electricity demand would be satisfied.
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: biggriffin on 27 December 2014, 13:40:21
Bah. >:( bloody tree huggers, use petrol and destroy a polar bear :y
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 27 December 2014, 13:45:02
And that's before we get into how the huge increase in electricity demand would be satisfied.

Wind Turbines of course!  :-X  ;D
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: biggriffin on 27 December 2014, 13:47:05
And that's before we get into how the huge increase in electricity demand would be satisfied.

Wind Turbines of course!  :-X  ;D

Have you got alot of wind, at the moment (Brussels)
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 27 December 2014, 13:50:43
And that's before we get into how the huge increase in electricity demand would be satisfied.

Wind Turbines of course!  :-X  ;D

Have you got alot of wind, at the moment (Brussels)

Too right!!  :o  If the Boffins could figure out a way to capture all the extra methane produced over Christmas then the worlds energy problem would be solved!  :y
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 27 December 2014, 14:28:14
.....

I think with a 400 mile range charging points wouldn't be an issue for most as you'd charge at home,  ....

Not the car you'd use to go from London to Inverness in then  ::)

Why not? You'd have to refuel most cars on that run anyway and OK the recharge would take longer than filling the tank, but do it while you stop for lunch and it's sorted!  :y

As they improve the range of electric cars and they become more competitive, then the infrastructure will develop to match demand.  :y
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Andy B on 27 December 2014, 14:42:46
.....

I think with a 400 mile range charging points wouldn't be an issue for most as you'd charge at home,  ....

Not the car you'd use to go from London to Inverness in then  ::)

Why not? You'd have to refuel most cars on that run anyway and OK the recharge would take longer than filling the tank, but do it while you stop for lunch and it's sorted!  :y

As they improve the range of electric cars and they become more competitive, then the infrastructure will develop to match demand.  :y

but it takes you & me 5 mins tops to refill our fuel tank ...... and until they do improve the range/charge rate of electric cars that will be the underlying problem
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 December 2014, 14:45:59
Teslas own Supercharger stations are solar powered, (so the tree huggers can pop that in their pipe and smoke it), and free 8) iirc takes about an hour to fully charge the Model S from flat using a Supercharger point. Standard public points charge at a minimum rate of a mile a minute or thereaboots, faster if they're working properly...
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Andy B on 27 December 2014, 14:51:18
Teslas own Supercharger stations are solar powered, (so the tree huggers can pop that in their pipe and smoke it), and free 8) iirc takes about an hour to fully charge the Model S from flat using a Supercharger point. Standard public points charge at a minimum rate of a mile a minute or thereaboots, faster if they're working properly...

and when you're 5th in the queue for the charge point ......  ;)
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 December 2014, 15:05:32
Teslas own Supercharger stations are solar powered, (so the tree huggers can pop that in their pipe and smoke it), and free 8) iirc takes about an hour to fully charge the Model S from flat using a Supercharger point. Standard public points charge at a minimum rate of a mile a minute or thereaboots, faster if they're working properly...

and when you're 5th in the queue for the charge point ......  ;)
No real problem...

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/11/10/electric-supercar-maker-tesla-motors-expands-uk-supercharger-network

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/Supercharger

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/charging

Should debunk a few myths... with the right equipment the car can be fully charged at home in under 4 hours...
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 December 2014, 15:10:49
And to answer Sir Tiggers Inverness question, perfectly possible with a stop in Birmingham, Manchester and Edinburgh... not unreasonable for a journey of that length :-\
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Andy B on 27 December 2014, 15:14:34
And to answer Sir Tiggers Inverness question, perfectly possible with a stop in Birmingham, Manchester and Edinburgh... not unreasonable for a journey of that length :-\

would you leave your meter running when you keep stopping .............. ?  ::)  ::)

I certainly wouldn't stop at Edinburgh if going to Inverness not would I stop at Brum if driving to London.
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Andy B on 27 December 2014, 15:19:41
Teslas own Supercharger stations are solar powered, (so the tree huggers can pop that in their pipe and smoke it), and free 8) iirc takes about an hour to fully charge the Model S from flat using a Supercharger point. Standard public points charge at a minimum rate of a mile a minute or thereaboots, faster if they're working properly...

and when you're 5th in the queue for the charge point ......  ;)
No real problem...

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/11/10/electric-supercar-maker-tesla-motors-expands-uk-supercharger-network

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/Supercharger

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/charging

Should debunk a few myths... with the right equipment the car can be fully charged at home in under 4 hours...

I know it's very early days, & I remember when unleaded fuel was thin on the ground when it first came out, but you're talking about a single car taking 20 mins to half charge .... as above, when you're 3rd in the queue for the charging point, it's an hour before you've got half a charge .......... and does half a charge equate to half a full charge range of 400 miles? .... I doubt it if mobile phones are anything to go by
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 27 December 2014, 15:58:02
It won't be long before every car parking space is equipped with a car charging point, so every time you park up you plug in!  :y

Electric cars are the future, we're not there yet but it's going to happen and quicker than we think.  ;)  :)

Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 December 2014, 16:11:00
Electric cars are old hat.

Hydrogen Cell is the future... and it makes use of the sprouts!  :y
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Nick W on 27 December 2014, 16:14:22
It won't be long before every car parking space is equipped with a car charging point, so every time you park up you plug in!  :y

Electric cars are the future, we're not there yet but it's going to happen and quicker than we think.  ;)  :)


Electric cars are in the future, but they won't be the only means of transport. It would take a long time for any replacement to become as ubiquitous as vehicles powered by IC engines.
And the necessary infrastructure is always going to be the sticking point; who is going to pay for it, where is it going to be installed, and as I said previously where EXACTLY is the electricity going to come from?
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 December 2014, 16:21:10
It'll be the Oil Giants who will pump billions of monies into the whole electric industry............ obviously.  ;D
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: TheBoy on 27 December 2014, 16:23:09
From 2 family members working in the electric car arena, they aren't ready for mainstream yet.

Every time you use over half the range (and remember, quoted range isn't achieavable), you severely shagg the batteries. Every time you fast charge the batteries, you shag them.  Battery changes aren't viable, financially, yet.
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 December 2014, 16:28:08
From 2 family members working in the electric car arena, they aren't ready for mainstream yet.

Every time you use over half the range (and remember, quoted range isn't achieavable), you severely shagg the batteries. Every time you fast charge the batteries, you shag them.  Battery changes aren't viable, financially, yet.

Sounds like an exhausting journey, TB.  ;D
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 December 2014, 17:30:14
From 2 family members working in the electric car arena, they aren't ready for mainstream yet.

Every time you use over half the range (and remember, quoted range isn't achieavable), you severely shagg the batteries. Every time you fast charge the batteries, you shag them.  Battery changes aren't viable, financially, yet.
Hence Teslas approach of an unlimited mileage 8 year warranty on their batteries... either a shrewd marketing ploy or a brave statement of self belief  :-\
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: TheBoy on 27 December 2014, 19:02:40
From 2 family members working in the electric car arena, they aren't ready for mainstream yet.

Every time you use over half the range (and remember, quoted range isn't achieavable), you severely shagg the batteries. Every time you fast charge the batteries, you shag them.  Battery changes aren't viable, financially, yet.
Hence Teslas approach of an unlimited mileage 8 year warranty on their batteries... either a shrewd marketing ploy or a brave statement of self belief  :-\
I wouldn't mind betting there are T&Cs around how deep you discharge, and how fast you charge ;)
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 December 2014, 19:26:32
I wouldn't mind betting there are T&Cs around how deep you discharge, and how fast you charge ;)

Definitely TB.  I'm sure the Warranty would be void as soon as you plug it into anything other than a Tesla branded/approved charger.  These batteries will keep a log of everything.
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Bigron on 27 December 2014, 21:48:09
A good range and infra-structure for charging in all very well, but what about performance, compared to an equivalent ICE? And replacement costs for the battery set......

Ron.
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 December 2014, 23:46:47
0-60 in sub 5 seconds too slow then Ron ;D
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: henryd on 27 December 2014, 23:49:48
0-60 in sub 5 seconds too slow then Ron ;D

TBH performance isn't really an issue with any of the modern breed,acceleration is very good but they tail off at higher speed which isn't really an issue here with a seventy limit and bloody cameras everywhere.
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: Nick W on 27 December 2014, 23:55:11
The Leaf is probably the best example, as it's basically an electric Note. It drives really well, quick, quiet, smooth and effortless. It underlines just how dreary small, automatic cars(the real comparison) are. The range, recharge times and cost are the downsides. Unfortunately, they are very big downsides and make them hard to recommend unless in very limited circumstances.
Title: Re: 400 miles
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 December 2014, 03:41:49
The Leaf is probably the best example, as it's basically an electric Note. It drives really well, quick, quiet, smooth and effortless. It underlines just how dreary small, automatic cars(the real comparison) are. The range, recharge times and cost are the downsides. Unfortunately, they are very big downsides and make them hard to recommend unless in very limited circumstances.
Be sure to have that debate with Guffer later ;)