Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 10 January 2015, 16:11:18
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Afternoon fellas,
Getting quite used to this mig welding now. Can do buttwelds, t joints, lap joints etc with decent penetration.
My future brother in law has a stick welder he's going to lend me as I really want to try my hand. especially as I have a few future projects that will need thick metal welding (watch this space ;))
SO.
If I borrow it and get good / like it and he doesn't want to sell it to me (he doesn't use it) then what machine wuld I be looking at buying? wouldlike to be able to weld up to 1/2''. and I only have 220v at home. ac or dc etc?
any info gladly welcome :) cheers girls
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Btw these mite help you if you have not got some already mate .. :-\
magnet (http://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai=C68Kc0FGxVOyYE8fIiwbEtoKgAdKVipwF2o_O4rwB0v7m9poCCAQQBSDPiK4eKAVgu7arg9AKyAEHqQKIhC5iUXG5PqoEJ0_Q0MCARIjGxCPD_JQcyL1R2LomUgVFC1XpUzDQ4JIl7P_teAOW-YAFkE66BRMIwaWA9eqJwwIVS7YUCh2tcQAPwAUFygUAoAYmgAfipeMciAcBkAcCqAemvhvgEomTw7yoteH_xQE&ei=0FGxVMH9D8vsUq3jgXg&sig=AOD64_0XYIF1E_iqsGATeUB5NSpbDMJ5ug&ctype=5&rct=j&q=&sqi=2&ved=0CDgQww8&adurl=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-134428-41853-0/2%3Fipn%3Dicep%26icep_id%3D67%26mtid%3D1673%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D50600204586_563391%26icep_item_id%3D131318330581%26itemid%3D131318330581%26icep_meta_categ_id%3D12576%26icep_etrs%3DY%26icep_epid%3D-999%26icep_ctlg%3D-999%26icep_cond%3DNew%26targetid%3D75947949906%26rpc%3D0.22%26rpc_upld_id%3D41232%26device%3Dc%26icep_msku_flag%3Dn%26icep_cbt%3Dn%26adtype%3Dpla)
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The cheapest £50 buzzbox that have been around for years will do all of that and more . But they're a fair size, and heavy. They are simple DC transformer, which is why they are so cheap. If you're going to use one, then an inverter will give more power and are smaller/lighter/much nicer to use but are more expensive. The rods are expensive unless you buy them in bulk, but if you do that and don't use them much/store them properly you will be throwing most of them away.
By the way, I've had the leads to do arc welding with my TIG welder for 10 years, and have used them once. That was just to see how well it worked, not for an actual job.
You already know where you can borrow an arc welder IF you ever need one, which makes buying one unnecessary. You would be better off putting this money into a refillable cylinder of CO2/argon and a nice regulator for use with your MIG.
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Thanks for that.
Ok, fair points. I'll borrow his and see how I go :)
Would you say its easier than MIG or harder? Cos even though everyone on the net is like ''migs easy''..... I didn't think it was at all. to do it properly that is. took me a while.
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It's a knack.
You have to swipe the rod across the metal to strike the arc. Next pull it back so you maintain the arc, and then feed the stick into the arc as you move the end along the joint. That has to be one smooth, quick and easy motion. It's not as easy as it sounds; what you will end up doing doing is melting a lot of rods to the metal, and not doing any welding.
Once you've got the knack, you have to watch the rod as you feed it into the arc, and the weld burning into the metal. You control that, so it's another knack to learn. This control is why(one of the reasons why) arc welding is used in far more critical applications than MIG.
I haven't done any arc welding in years, but a borrowed 'machine' was what I started with. Doing jobs like repairing the footpegs on my 125, constantly rewelding Ian's Mini exhaust manifold(because he was too cheap to replace the knackered engine mounts) and some patches on my car were what made me buy my first MIG.
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Ok thanks nick
I presume you can weld outside cos it's got the flux in it?
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Reading Nicks post... Is it a two handed process? :-\
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No.
But it is easier with two hands to keep everything under control. That also applies to MIG.
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Like MIG it's easier cos you support your ''gun'' holding hand with your other. I get around this by supporting my gun hand with my arm so no real problem.
TIG on the other hand.... :'(
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ps, heres some of my attempts at fillet welds. never the prettiest as usual but functional and they tie in to the base metal really well...which in my opinion is most important.
this is 3mm steel
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Welds-11-1-15003_zps2ff0223e.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/Welds-11-1-15003_zps2ff0223e.jpg.html)
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Welds-11-1-15002_zpsebc5b55b.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/Welds-11-1-15002_zpsebc5b55b.jpg.html)
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Welds-11-1-15001_zpsfa0a1b0b.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/Welds-11-1-15001_zpsfa0a1b0b.jpg.html)
sorry about the dodgy pics. and also ignore the nicotine patches im resting them on ::) ;D
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Fair play Webby, I've never seen such shite pictures! ;D ;D
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Fair play Webby, I've never seen such shite pictures! ;D ;D
The welds shite or the pictures of the welds? ;D
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You only on step 1 patch ::)
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No.
But it is easier with two hands to keep everything under control. That also applies to MIG.
Got it :y I had ass u me d that the rod was in addition to the electrode, rather than actually being the electrode... ::)
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No.
But it is easier with two hands to keep everything under control. That also applies to MIG.
Got it :y I had ass u me d that the rod was in addition to the electrode, rather than actually being the electrode... ::)
TIG..... Definitely a no no for me. :'(
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I taught myself stick welding 20 years ago. I managed to get consistently good welds but I got sick of having to beat the living daylights out of each weld afterwards to remove the flux to check the weld or before painting or starting another weld.
It is useful for agricultural welding* though...........................
* (welding broken farm machinery outdoors when the wind is blowing)
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after I got a decent MIG welder, I gave my sip stick set away.
never missed it. ;D
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I can see why you wouldnt need it. But i have a few plans for thicker stuff so i'm thinking it'll get used. Who knows though.
I've text the BIL to borrow it so i'll post up some piccies of my first attempts.
heres a question though.........
with MIG you know where you're stick out is cos you can see the nozzle. but can you easily see where your electrode is in relation to thye workpiece?
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That's part of the knack of striking and maintaing the arc; 'knowing' how far from the surface the end of the rod is. Like all welding, if you can't clearly see the actual weld as it happens then you're unlikely to make a good weld.
You originally mentioned 1/2" capacity, are you intending to do heavy structural steel work like bridges? Or just armour plate the Omega?
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Haha! Armour plating the omega ;)
Firstly the plan is to build a couple of tables. one for light work and really just to attempt to make one. second will be heavy duty and used as a welding table. secondly i want to build a heavy duty vice.
and after that i'm considering a trailer. lol
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Tables: you must have plenty of space!
Realistically, if you're going to do that, then the heavy duty welding table will do all you need. Use 50x50x3mm box section for the legs. Make the top frame from 25mm box, with angle iron diagonals. Weld the legs to the frame ensuring that everything is square when finished(which is the hard part). Add a similar frame about 50mm up from the bottom, and panel it with wood as a storage space. Have a piece of 6mm steel cut for the top, and select as flat a piece as possible. Bolt it to the top frame along all four sides and the diagonals with countersunk bolts every 50mm. That shouldn't tax your welder. It will .cost some serious cash, which is why fabrication shops save them for the precision jobs. I use an offcut of 10mm MDF on top of the chest freezer, or clamped to a £20 folding workbench.
Vices: a fabricated vice is possible but will require machining to be any good, and will still be light duty. £100 at Machine Mart will buy a useable, large engineers vice. I would look for a secondhand 6" or bigger Record, which are out there and a much better deal.
A trailer doesn't need to be that hefty either, take a look at one of the commercially available ones.
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So you reckon 3mm will be sturdy enough for welding on and bashing stuff on? i kinda had it in my mind it'd need to be around the half inch as per vids ive seen on the net.
as for space its going outside in't back garden covered up when not in use. as my garage is rammed :(
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So you reckon 3mm will be sturdy enough for welding on and bashing stuff on? i kinda had it in my mind it'd need to be around the half inch as per vids ive seen on the net.
as for space its going outside in't back garden covered up when not in use. as my garage is rammed :(
12mm!
Jesus, that's structural steel for supporting tons of weight!
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So you reckon 3mm will be sturdy enough for welding on and bashing stuff on? i kinda had it in my mind it'd need to be around the half inch as per vids ive seen on the net.
as for space its going outside in't back garden covered up when not in use. as my garage is rammed :(
12mm!
Jesus, that's structural steel for supporting tons of weight!
Fair enough Mark,
Just going by what i seen on't tube :)
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Have a look on U Tube for videos of structural steel work assembly.......
Oh and remember....you wont weld things much thicker than 3mm of a 13A domestic power supply......
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Yeah i remember you saying that, hence the thread really.
i was under the impression (wrongly it seems) that the DC inverter based arc welders plug in to the standard 220v with a capacity of welding to quite large thicknesses. i thought it was the AC ones where you had to get a man in to up ya leccy output :-\
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Er no....you have a limited amount of energy that you can draw from the mains, that energy equates more or less to the amount you can use to melt metal.....
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Interesting, let me see if i can find some machines / threads that i'm on about.
Thanks for the advice mate.
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So you reckon 3mm will be sturdy enough for welding on and bashing stuff on? i kinda had it in my mind it'd need to be around the half inch as per vids ive seen on the net.
as for space its going outside in't back garden covered up when not in use. as my garage is rammed :(
12mm!
Jesus, that's structural steel for supporting tons of weight!
Lol,make a trailer out of 12mm Webby then you'll need something more than an Omega to tow it around :o :D ;)
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Haha ok i fekked up. go easy on a learning bear ;D ;D ;D
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Students get homework, so here is yours ;)
When you're out and about, have a look at steel structures of a similar size to what you're looking at building. Trailers, both car and truck sized would be a good start, and consider what they are made of. Large gates would be a good idea too. Whilst you're looking at Youtube, see if you can find any video of what mobile fabricators use and, more importantly, don't use.
Even if I did a lot of heavier fabrication(and these sizes aren't particularly heavy!), a table would be nice, but there are plenty of other things I'd get first. Like a decent chopsaw for cutting tube to accurate angles, and a bandsaw for similar work in sheet. I am tempted by a Stronghand Nomad Welding table from Stakesys though. You might want to check out their website.
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Thanks Nick i will do.
i've sort of started doing that already.
its amazing what you notice that has been welded when you are looking for welds.
bog roll holder in the bathroom (standalone thing) been welded (well, glorified tack welds in reality). gates, shopping trolley castors (was thinking about nicking a few of these off a dumped trolley near SWMBOs ;D but theyre stainless so may be difficult.