Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: amba on 24 March 2015, 12:00:35
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Starting to get fed up constantly needing to erase above fault codes which has become progressively worse over the last month or so.Would come on maybe once a week,but now is almost daily despite only running car on Premium unleaded and even adding a bottle of cataclean to see if that would work.
Question raised are is this the impending death of both catalytic converters as both banks 1 and 2 will throw up codes or could this be the lambda sensors ending their life..or both ?
I assume cats are original so 12/13 years old but had read they will last/work for 30+ years with no adverse effects assuming no overfueling or contamination which I am pretty sure has happened with my cars engine in the past.
Do I just bite the bullet and buy 2 new cats and 4 sensors and hope that resolves it or can their be a more accurate diagnosis so only the faulty parts are replaced.
Assume having the back lambdas moved to " after the rear cat " could work however is this a definitve solution or wont that resolve the problem if faults elsewhere and that is not a DIY job so would require further assistance on that .
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Question raised are is this the impending death of both catalytic converters as both banks 1 and 2 will throw up codes or could this be the lambda sensors ending their life..or both ?
Neither. It's just the pre-cats getting tired. They contribute little, and it'll pass an emissions test without them, so perfectly fine to just re locate the sensor.
Do I just bite the bullet and buy 2 new cats and 4 sensors and hope that resolves it or can their be a more accurate diagnosis so only the faulty parts are replaced.
Assume having the back lambdas moved to " after the rear cat " could work however is this a definitve solution or wont that resolve the problem if faults elsewhere and that is not a DIY job so would require further assistance on that .
No - unless you wanted to spend a silly amount of money the only viable purchase are pattern cats, which are worse than the ones you'll have on there.
Relocating the sensors is a perfect fix :y
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Cheers James.
That was my thinking but unsure if it could be a faulty lambda but as its bring up codes for both banks assume I am incorrect.
Is the relocation a viable solution on aged catalytic converters ,as it doesnt look a DIY job and again assume better/necessary access can only be acheived with cats removed from car.
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We had a party at Serek's a while ago where Mr. DTM had a bit of a cat relocation production line going on.
No problem doing it on the car with a welder + plasma cutter. You can buy the bosses to weld into the exhaust quite cheaply on ebay. :y
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Cheers James.
That was my thinking but unsure if it could be a faulty lambda but as its bring up codes for both banks assume I am incorrect.
Is the relocation a viable solution on aged catalytic converters ,as it doesnt look a DIY job and again assume better/necessary access can only be acheived with cats removed from car.
The cats will need removing, but that's not a tricky job. Any decent welder should then be able to weld a new lambda boss in :y
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I stand corrected, I thought it'd be easier with the cats removed :-[
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Thanks again James.
Just need to find a garage that will do that for me ...suspect they will be twitchy about working/removing older parts though without waiver .
Should I get new lambdas and just cut the wires from the originals that avaoids getting them out and plugging the old holes with a cap.
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Just need a price for the bits then and a "man" who can :y
Thanks for advise guys
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Just need a price for the bits then and a "man" who can :y
Thanks for advise guys
Quick and easy welding job with the car on a ramp. Not fun with it on the ground though, that would be easier with the cats off.
The sensors respond well to a bit of heat to get them out.
Bosses were about a fiver the last time I looked.
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Hi Nick. :y
No ramp access here as you know ,and dont fancy how well the manifold/downpipe joins will come apart,unless you have any solution .
Still then need a competant welder ..any suggestions as to locally who would be an ideal choice to resolve ?
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If you take them off and bring them to me one weekend, I'll happily weld the bosses in. That's a couple of minutes each.
Doing them on the car is a lot more faffing about though.
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Cheers for the offer Nick.
I will have a look at somepoint and see how likely they can be removed, as suspect the usual rusty bolts to mid section will need attention.Always worried about the manifold/downpipe studs as they arent easiest to get at .
Will be intouch :y
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There not to bad to do lying under the car to be honest, for cutting the holes you have two options, plasma cutter or sacrifice a couple of decent 25mm hole saws.
Welding the new bosses in is pretty easy on the floor.
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There not to bad to do lying under the car to be honest, for cutting the holes you have two options, plasma cutter or sacrifice a couple of decent 25mm hole saws.
Welding the new bosses in is pretty easy on the floor.
Most of the extra faffing about for me is moving the equipment to do the job; large welder, gas cylinder, compressor for the plasma or struggle with a drill, etc. All for a few minutes actual work.
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Faffing yes certainly.....
....but I wouldn't say its worth the agro of removing seized cat bolts that are hard to reach up the back of the engine and often need drilling off the other end, AND then risking them not sealing too well on refitting, which can be the case for diy'ers such as us lot. Plus new gaskets x2 at best. X4 if they don't seat correctly first time.
Noooo, leave them on imo.
....although...., if removed, it does give the opportunity to smash the pre cats out altogether, as they could have shifted or crumbled and be cause a flow issue....?
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Lots of advise guys so thanks .
So assuming car can be raised to allow easier access for drilling/cutting new holes for welding thats the safest/probably quickest option.
Didnt really fancy pulling the 2 cats off what with the inevitable issues with bolts shearing and still requiring drilling out anyway .
As with most things DIY its one of access ..and then having the correct tools and the ability to use them properly.
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To save me spending ages looking for one, is there a decent picture of a resited sensor?
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(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/DSC00149.jpg)
From one of Marks threads.
I think mine are a little further back, nearer the bend.
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Should add, I just bought two new sensors and left the old ones in place.
http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/ for genuine Bosch
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Leaving the existings in place will be my plan as cant see the sense in creating further problems trying to remove those that have been there for years ,and only needing to bung the hole after :o
Just need to develop a plan of attack ;)
Cheers for the picture Nick :y
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Whats the difference between the 2 lambdas listed ..apart from around £45 each
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Two different types dependant on manual or auto transmission and front or rear fitment, ultimately the only real difference between them all is the length of the cable.
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Thanks VXL V6. :y
So assume longer cable for rear ? and being auto just 1 selection
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Or you can buy them without the plugs and reuse the ones on your existing ones - just cut them with a tail and solder and shrink tube them twice to give some heat and moisture protection.
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Soldering etc is just another added complication ..want this done with the least amount of agro and effort. ::)
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Leaving the existings in place will be my plan as cant see the sense in creating further problems trying to remove those that have been there for years ,and only needing to bung the hole after :o
Just need to develop a plan of attack ;)
Cheers for the picture Nick :y
You can buy blanking plugs from the same suppliers as the bosses. Or they're a simple turning job. Either way, it makes for a more professional looking job.
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That assumes you can get the old Lambdas out,Nick.
Looking for the simplest method really as cant afford car off the road for too long removing cats etc....time/money and all that malarky ;)
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Regarding removing O2 sensors. . . Mine came out no problems. . . A few decent whacks with the hammer on the wrench. Obviously make sure the wrench is properly seated.
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Leaving the existings in place will be my plan as cant see the sense in creating further problems trying to remove those that have been there for years ,and only needing to bung the hole after :o
Just need to develop a plan of attack ;)
Cheers for the picture Nick :y
You can buy blanking plugs from the same suppliers as the bosses. Or they're a simple turning job. Either way, it makes for a more professional looking job.
Usually the bosses have the blanking plug in them.
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That assumes you can get the old Lambdas out,Nick.
Looking for the simplest method really as cant afford car off the road for too long removing cats etc....time/money and all that malarky ;)
A lick of the oxy-acetylene usually shifts stuck fittings easily, lamda sensors included.
I do understand why you wouldn't want to remove the cats; dealing with broken bolts in the mid-pipe joints is easy, but damaging the manifold studs makes a real problem. I only suggested that as I could fit the bosses and move the sensors for you quickly and easily, without having to shift a load of equipment.
Perhaps we should draw a line here, as this thread is making a relatively simple job sound complicated! And I know that am guilty as much as anyone else.
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Point taken, Nick...will have a think over my plan of attack then :y
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Bosses. They consist of the boss (surround that's welded in to give the new location) and plug. They are like a sump plug complete. Threaded bit to weld in, and the plug that allows oil out once unscrewed. Except these are for the lambas and are lamba size thread.
So once the new boss is welded in, IF the old sensors come out, which they usually do from all the face lift ones I've seen, then whack them in the new boss and put the plug in the old hole. Job jobbed.
I guess to save the cost of £100 odd in sensors, it might be worth seeing if they undo first.
Applologies if I'm stating the obvious, but it looked like clarification was needed. :)