Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 14:57:22

Title: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 14:57:22
Hi all.

Went to take some rubbish to the tip today and my miggy wouldn't start. :'(

The battery was flat so the AA man charged it up. He put some petrol in it too just in case, as the petrol light was on. He tested the battery and it was fine.

Got to the tip and get of the rubbish. Miggy wouldn't start again.

The second AA man thought it might be the alternator or the wiring.

What should I do?

TIA. :y

Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 April 2015, 15:02:56
I'm sorry to hear this Ms. Kate. :-\ :-* :-* :-* :-*

She (your Omega) loves you really. :y

Hope you get it sorted. :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 April 2015, 15:04:11
Does the engine spin over fast but show no sign of wanting to start?
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 April 2015, 15:07:40
Firstly, check that the crimp connection where the large cable joins either battery terminal is sound. Sometimes the cable can become loose in the crimp, causing the battery not to charge effectively.

Secondly, charge the battery with a mains powered charger if possible, then run through this procedure using a multimeter to measure the voltage:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90619.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90619.0)
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: zirk on 16 April 2015, 15:07:52
Hi all.

Went to take some rubbish to the tip today and my miggy wouldn't start. :'(

The battery was flat so the AA man charged it up. He put some petrol in it too just in case, as the petrol light was on. He tested the battery and it was fine.

Got to the tip and get of the rubbish. Miggy wouldn't start again.

The second AA man thought it might be the alternator or the wiring.

What should I do?

TIA. :y
He thought?, didn't test it then.

Mind you, I had to call them out a few years back, when I needed a jump, because I left my lights on. He took get care and detail in measuring everything before and after the start and informed me my alternator wasn't up to scratch and needed replacing.

Yes mate, thanks, what ever, as Im driving off, still runs sweet today.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 April 2015, 15:12:30
He thought?, didn't test it then.

Mind you, I had to call them out a few years back, when I needed a jump, because I left my lights on. He took get care and detail in measuring everything before and after the start and informed me my alternator wasn't up to scratch and needed replacing.

Yes mate, thanks, what ever, as Im driving off, still runs sweet today.

Yep, wouldn't have taken long to get the multimeter out. Still, it'd still be an alternator diagnosis if the battery positive lead had been hanging by a thread.

..and your experience shows why it's best to charge the battery fully beforehand. A completely flat battery in good condition will defy any attempt by the alternator to drag its' terminal voltage up to 14+ Volts until it's fully charged, hence the "alternator, mate" diagnosis. ;D
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: zirk on 16 April 2015, 15:16:51
He thought?, didn't test it then.

Mind you, I had to call them out a few years back, when I needed a jump, because I left my lights on. He took get care and detail in measuring everything before and after the start and informed me my alternator wasn't up to scratch and needed replacing.

Yes mate, thanks, what ever, as Im driving off, still runs sweet today.

Yep, wouldn't have taken long to get the multimeter out. Still, it'd still be an alternator diagnosis if the battery positive lead had been hanging by a thread.

..and your experience shows why it's best to charge the battery fully beforehand. A completely flat battery in good condition will defy any attempt by the alternator to drag its' terminal voltage up to 14+ Volts until it's fully charged, hence the "alternator, mate" diagnosis. ;D
Exactly, they obviously dont teach common sense as there handing out the Flukes at the AA School.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: 05omegav6 on 16 April 2015, 15:20:00
Crank sensor anyone ::)

Should add that the estates get very fussy with less thqn a quarter tank if on anything other than a relatively level surface...
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 April 2015, 16:07:02
OK, at this point we need to define "wouldn't start", I think. ;D
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 16:35:23
By wouldn't start I mean the battery seemed almost completely dead.  The starter made a feeble try for about half a second and that was it.

The first AA man checked the battery properly with his meter and said it was ok.

The second AA man checked the wiring only around the battery and said it was ok.

When I tried to start it I heard a beep that I haven't heard before.

Thanks for helping, it is much appreciated. :y
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Nick W on 16 April 2015, 16:42:26
Time for a battery droptest. We see lots of suddenly duff batteries at this time of year as the weather changes. It's the same in the autumn.

Your symptoms are exactly what I see several times a week(or a day!)
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 April 2015, 17:12:43
Yep, worth carrying out my charging test too, in case the battery is not being charged by the alternator.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 17:32:46
Oh I forgot to mention that the second AA man said that the alternator wasn't charging the battery effectively.

What normally happens when I'm in this situation is that I get a part replaced and it turns out to be a different part that is faulty. ;D
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: zirk on 16 April 2015, 17:49:24
Oh I forgot to mention that the second AA man said that the alternator wasn't charging the battery effectively.

What normally happens when I'm in this situation is that I get a part replaced and it turns out to be a different part that is faulty. ;D
Kate, before you start parting with any money or doing any tests on the battery, remove the battery first, fully charge it overnight then leave it alone for 24 hours.

Only then get it checked, drop tested or ideally do Kevins Checks, otherwise you or someone else will just be chasing there own backside.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 18:49:07
How difficult is it to change the alternator?
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Andy H on 16 April 2015, 19:03:55
How difficult is it to change the alternator?
That depends....
If you have long arms, the correct size spanners and have done one before then it takes about 45 minutes.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 20:48:32
Is it worth buying a new alternator?

I found a cheap one on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271354237084?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271354237084?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: GastronomicKleptomaniac on 16 April 2015, 20:58:30
Is it worth buying a new alternator?

I found a cheap one on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271354237084?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271354237084?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Beg, borrow or steal a multimeter and do Kevs tests first. :y
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 21:00:40
Is it worth buying a new alternator?

I found a cheap one on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271354237084?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271354237084?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Beg, borrow or steal a multimeter and do Kevs tests first. :y

Ok will do, thanks. :y
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: chrisgixer on 16 April 2015, 21:32:34
How difficult is it to change the alternator?
On a v6?

Simple in theory, it's two bolts and two cable connectors. After removing the bag pipes.

But access is bloody awkward IMO. Especially if you've not done one before. Plus there's the agro of getting the right part, with the right output, and the right sized pulley. Factors simply don't have the right info so will expect you to know.

Vx have the right info, but the cheapest way to get one from Vx is still expensive at £111.00 via an exchange service, last time I looked. (Can't remember of trade club helps)

They can be refurbed. But then your without the car until the diode pack arrives (if that's the fault) and replacement, I gather, isn't straightforward.


Edit to add, the most awkward part is accessing the nuts on the end of the bolts at the back of the alternator, as the sump and subframe are in the way. Much swearing. Although others had better joy accessing them from the top by moving the water bottle and gubbins.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 22:04:14
Is there anyone around Hampshire way that could sort this for me?

I would pay of course.

I don't trust garages.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: 05omegav6 on 16 April 2015, 22:08:52
Kevin Wood would be first choice given he wrote the guide... :y
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 16 April 2015, 23:38:42
Kevin Wood would be first choice given he wrote the guide... :y

Kevin, do you do work on Omega's or just diagnostics?
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Andy B on 16 April 2015, 23:44:16
Kevin Wood would be first choice given he wrote the guide... :y

Kevin, do you do work on Omega's or just diagnostics?

He's just clever with electrickery in general  :y :y
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: chrisgixer on 17 April 2015, 00:17:55
Kevin Wood would be first choice given he wrote the guide... :y

Kevin, do you do work on Omega's or just diagnostics?

He's just clever with electrickery in general  :y :y

;)
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: driver115 on 17 April 2015, 10:48:39
Thanks for this info posted here - will use it first on my mv6 to check battery/connection before swapping over the alternator with my other omega
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 April 2015, 12:05:34
Kevin Wood would be first choice given he wrote the guide... :y

Kevin, do you do work on Omega's or just diagnostics?

I would be happy to diagnose the issue, certainly.  :y

I'm a bit snowed under to take on any more lengthy jobs at the moment, to be honest.  :-[

PM on its' way.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: robson on 17 April 2015, 15:33:57
Kate you can buy a multimeter for very little these days £5.00-£10.00 Get one and then we could guide you through the tests. Dont go fitting new expensive parts before you are sure of the problem
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 17 April 2015, 18:42:35
Kevin is going to have a look at the miggy for me.

I've got to get a battery charger first though.

Will I need a spare battery, just in case?
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Seth on 18 April 2015, 11:43:08
Earthing?

Easily eliminated by securely connecting a jump lead from the battery negative clamp to the engine block - manifold nut, lifting bracket etc. ;)
 
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 18 April 2015, 18:16:15
Earthing?

Easily eliminated by securely connecting a jump lead from the battery negative clamp to the engine block - manifold nut, lifting bracket etc. ;)

Thanks, I'll try that. :y
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 18 April 2015, 18:20:15
I went to charge the battery today and the charger indicated that battery is already fully charged.

But it won't start the car. ::)

I don't understand.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Nick W on 18 April 2015, 18:50:50
Either you have a loose connection, faulty starter motor or the battery is knackered.
Pending a drop test, the battery is the most likely.
The cure is to replace it.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: pauls on 18 April 2015, 18:51:13
Sounds like the batteries had it. :'(
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Andy H on 18 April 2015, 19:30:00
Check the big cables before condemning the battery.

It is quite common for most of the strands to break where they are crimped into the connectors on the end of the cables. The remaining strands are capable of carrying enough current to charge the battery (slowly) and to keep the lights working but they can't carry enough current to turn the starter motor (they just get rather hot)
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: The Sheriff on 18 April 2015, 21:27:51
I went to charge the battery today and the charger indicated that battery is already fully charged.

But it won't start the car. ::)

I don't understand.
Of course you don't understand, Kate. Are there no men that can help you?
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 18 April 2015, 22:33:42
I went to charge the battery today and the charger indicated that battery is already fully charged.

But it won't start the car. ::)

I don't understand.
Of course you don't understand, Kate. Are there no men that can help you?

Yes Kevin has offered to help. :y
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 18 April 2015, 22:36:19
If I need to get a new battery, what spec do I need?

I have a 2.5 but it has plenum, ecu etc. off a 3.0 if that makes any difference?
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 April 2015, 11:14:34
Sorry I haven't managed to nip over and have a look yet. :(

Do you get the normal warning lights on the dash when you turn the ignition on? Do they dim or go out when you try to start the engine?
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 April 2015, 11:18:48
I went to charge the battery today and the charger indicated that battery is already fully charged.

But it won't start the car. ::)

I don't understand.
Of course you don't understand, Kate. Are there no men that can help you?

Yes Kevin has offered to help. :y

Excellent. :-* :-* :-*

No need to worry your pretty little head over such things.

I'm sure KW will sort it. :y :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Bigron on 19 April 2015, 12:00:57
Was that a suicide note, Doctor Opti?

Ron.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 April 2015, 13:54:34
Was that a suicide note, Doctor Opti?

Ron.

Sadly, women are becoming more masculine and assertive these days, Ron.

I recently held a door open for a young woman who glowered at me and said "do I look like I need your help?". :-\

Whatever happened to "thank you kind sir"? ::) ::) ;)
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Kate on 19 April 2015, 14:04:16
"Thank you kind sir"

I think you have been watching too much costume drama Doc. ;D ;D ;D :-*
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 April 2015, 14:05:41
"Thank you kind sir"

I think you have been watching too much costume drama Doc. ;D ;D ;D :-*


Yes indeed, Ms. Kate. :-* :-* :-*

I'm partial to a 'bodice ripper'. :D :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Bigron on 19 April 2015, 15:06:44
I would hold a door open for anybody behind me, regardless of gender, simply because it's the polite and gentlemanly thing to do: however, if such action elicited the response you outlined, MY response would be anything but gentlemanly!
It's surprising how many fish need bicycles these days.....

Ron.
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 April 2015, 15:20:30
I would hold a door open for anybody behind me, regardless of gender, simply because it's the polite and gentlemanly thing to do: however, if such action elicited the response you outlined, MY response would be anything but gentlemanly!
It's surprising how many fish need bicycles these days.....

Ron.

The lady in question had short cropped hair and walked like John Wayne after six hours in the saddle. :D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Bigron on 19 April 2015, 15:24:11
And drinks from a furry cup?
Title: Re: Had to call the AA twice today
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 April 2015, 16:58:23
And drinks from a furry cup?

Almost certainly. ;)