Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 11:25:47

Title: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 11:25:47
Saga have agreed to 'mirror' my NCD.

I now have 70% NCD on both the MV6 and my dreary old Signum.

My  NCD is also protected.

For some reason the Signum costs more to insure  ??? ???

£130 for the Omega .......£171 for the Signum.

Still, I suppose £300 to insure two relatively large capacity cars is not too shabby.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 11:26:38
Price includes a couple of declared SP30's. :y
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 11:30:10
....and a menopausal woman who is capable of insane acts.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: tunnie on 15 June 2015, 11:30:19
So you only had one set of NCB, but they 'copied' them to another car? Very nice of them!
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 11:32:10
So you only had one set of NCB, but they 'copied' them to another car? Very nice of them!

Yes.

Some insurance companies will do this. :y With others you need to start from scratch again. :-\
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Viral_Jim on 15 June 2015, 12:25:47
You must live in a nicer area that I do!

£430 for the CDX estate (9yrs ncb). But I guess business use and naming my wife on there has an impact - 3 yrs experience, nil ncb and 1 written off picanto to her name  ;D
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 12:28:59
You must live in a nicer area that I do!

£430 for the CDX estate (9yrs ncb). But I guess business use and naming my wife on there has an impact - 3 yrs experience, nil ncb and 1 written off picanto to her name  ;D

Kidderminster seem quite nice. I pass through on a regular basis.

Not the same since the carpet industry went tits up though. :-\
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: tunnie on 15 June 2015, 12:34:58
So you only had one set of NCB, but they 'copied' them to another car? Very nice of them!

Yes.

Some insurance companies will do this. :y With others you need to start from scratch again. :-\

Good to know :)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: VXL V6 on 15 June 2015, 12:37:20
So you only had one set of NCB, but they 'copied' them to another car? Very nice of them!

Yes.

Some insurance companies will do this. :y With others you need to start from scratch again. :-\

None i've encountered will do it  :'(
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 15 June 2015, 12:39:22
You must live in a nicer area that I do!

Lord Opti's estate is so big they rarely drive on the public highway.  Hence the low insurance!  ;)  :y
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 14:11:20
So you only had one set of NCB, but they 'copied' them to another car? Very nice of them!

Yes.

Some insurance companies will do this. :y With others you need to start from scratch again. :-\

Good to know :)

I suppose they think you can only one drive one car at any one time.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: steve6367 on 15 June 2015, 14:14:13
So you only had one set of NCB, but they 'copied' them to another car? Very nice of them!

Yes.

Some insurance companies will do this. :y With others you need to start from scratch again. :-\

Admiral do - so long as you don't add too many drivers  :y
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: tunnie on 15 June 2015, 14:37:21
So you only had one set of NCB, but they 'copied' them to another car? Very nice of them!

Yes.

Some insurance companies will do this. :y With others you need to start from scratch again. :-\

Admiral do - so long as you don't add too many drivers  :y

Hummm balls. I'm with Admiral, my 3.2 is dirt cheap to insure, but the 2.2 is costing an arm and a leg. MrsT has not driven for years and so zero NCB.

That said if I had just copied it, she would still not be getting her own NCB.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: minifreek on 15 June 2015, 15:07:55
I must live in the middle of Beirut as far as the insurance companies are concerned...

Iv got full NCB protected (9+ years), wife as named driver, me as main driver... never had any accidents or traffic offences for well over 10 years but still my Elite costs just over £650 to insure FC....

Im with Liverpool Victoria and have been for the past 6 years...
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Lazydocker on 15 June 2015, 15:10:46
I must live in the middle of Beirut as far as the insurance companies are concerned...

Iv got full NCB protected (9+ years), wife as named driver, me as main driver... never had any accidents or traffic offences for well over 10 years but still my Elite costs just over £650 to insure FC....

Im with Liverpool Victoria and have been for the past 6 years...

That may be your problem... Insurance companies don't reward loyalty ;)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 16:05:52
I've just been for a drive and it feels 'spot on'. Perfect.

This car has been serviced to death.

I'm disappointed with the level of Elite trim though. :-\

No electric or memory seats......no cruise control......no sport button for the auto box, and most odd of all, no buttons whatsoever for the traction control and ESP system. Weird. ???

Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: EMD on 15 June 2015, 16:21:09
Time to sell Mr opti  :P Invest in Omega's is the way forward  :-*
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Weds on 15 June 2015, 17:01:05
Saga have agreed to 'mirror' my NCD.

I now have 70% NCD on both the MV6 and my dreary old Signum.

My  NCD is also protected.

For some reason the Signum costs more to insure  ??? ???

£130 for the Omega .......£171 for the Signum.

Still, I suppose £300 to insure two relatively large capacity cars is not too shabby.

I have 3 cars insured with Saga and they have done the same, one NCD across all 3  :)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 17:04:57
Time to sell Mr opti  :P Invest in Omega's is the way forward  :-*

No...it really is nice to drive.The rear seat arrangement looks like a'dogs dinner' It is very messy, a throw together.

It feels quite sluggish, but when I connected it to a racelogic performance box it managed zero to 60 MPH in 6.7 seconds.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 June 2015, 18:15:43
It has cruise control... Please read the manual but as a clue indicator stalk ::)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: EMD on 15 June 2015, 18:21:36
It has cruise control... Please read the manual but as a clue indicator stalk ::)

 ;D
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: henryd on 15 June 2015, 18:22:20
It has cruise control... Please read the manual but as a clue indicator stalk ::)

Aye ::)

Driving and operation
Cruise control 3
Cruise control can store and maintain
speeds of approx. 20 to 125 mph (30 to 200
km/h). Deviation from the saved speed is
possible on uphill or downhill inclines.
For safety reasons the cruise control
cannot be activated until the foot brake
has been operated once.
Cruise control is operated with
buttons m, g, and § on the turn signal
stalk.
Do not use the cruise control if it is not
advisable to maintain a constant speed
(e.g. in situations presenting a danger to
yourself and other road users, in heavy
traffic or on winding, slippery or greasy
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: henryd on 15 June 2015, 18:28:05
https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/content/dam/Vauxhall/Europe/united_kingdom/nscwebsite/uk/00_Home/Owner_Services/owners_manuals/signum/SignumOwnersManual_Jul07.pdf

Page 200  :y
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: TheBoy on 15 June 2015, 18:43:45
I've yet to come across an insurance company that will not mirror a NCD on a 2nd car. Sometimes they initially offer 1 or 2 yrs NCB, but keep pressing them, 5yrs is always achievable.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 19:40:32
It has cruise control... Please read the manual but as a clue indicator stalk ::)

Aye ::)

Driving and operation
Cruise control 3
Cruise control can store and maintain
speeds of approx. 20 to 125 mph (30 to 200
km/h). Deviation from the saved speed is
possible on uphill or downhill inclines.
For safety reasons the cruise control
cannot be activated until the foot brake
has been operated once.
Cruise control is operated with
buttons m, g, and § on the turn signal
stalk.
Do not use the cruise control if it is not
advisable to maintain a constant speed
(e.g. in situations presenting a danger to
yourself and other road users, in heavy
traffic or on winding, slippery or greasy

Sorry boys but no cruise.

Also...how do I turn off the traction control/ESP system? No TC button like the Omega.

....and where the fook is the sport button for the auto box? ??? ???
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: tunnie on 15 June 2015, 19:41:41
I'm assuming the mirror of NCD won't apply if the main driver is different  :(
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: driver115 on 15 June 2015, 19:48:49
Aviva duplicated my NCD for 2 cars, worked out circa £150 for each one.I will still look around for the best quotes though when renewals come around
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: henryd on 15 June 2015, 19:54:25
It has cruise control... Please read the manual but as a clue indicator stalk ::)

Aye ::)

Driving and operation
Cruise control 3
Cruise control can store and maintain
speeds of approx. 20 to 125 mph (30 to 200
km/h). Deviation from the saved speed is
possible on uphill or downhill inclines.
For safety reasons the cruise control
cannot be activated until the foot brake
has been operated once.
Cruise control is operated with
buttons m, g, and § on the turn signal
stalk.
Do not use the cruise control if it is not
advisable to maintain a constant speed
(e.g. in situations presenting a danger to
yourself and other road users, in heavy
traffic or on winding, slippery or greasy

Sorry boys but no cruise.

Also...how do I turn off the traction control/ESP system? No TC button like the Omega.

....and where the fook is the sport button for the auto box? ??? ???

There is no intervention allowed regarding tc/esp,I can't believe that Elite spec doesn't have cruise either.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: EMD on 15 June 2015, 19:58:33
It has cruise control... Please read the manual but as a clue indicator stalk ::)

Aye ::)

Driving and operation
Cruise control 3
Cruise control can store and maintain
speeds of approx. 20 to 125 mph (30 to 200
km/h). Deviation from the saved speed is
possible on uphill or downhill inclines.
For safety reasons the cruise control
cannot be activated until the foot brake
has been operated once.
Cruise control is operated with
buttons m, g, and § on the turn signal
stalk.
Do not use the cruise control if it is not
advisable to maintain a constant speed
(e.g. in situations presenting a danger to
yourself and other road users, in heavy
traffic or on winding, slippery or greasy

Sorry boys but no cruise.

Also...how do I turn off the traction control/ESP system? No TC button like the Omega.

....and where the fook is the sport button for the auto box? ??? ???

In your trusty Omega of course  ::)  ;D ;D ;D  ;)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 20:05:49
It has cruise control... Please read the manual but as a clue indicator stalk ::)

Aye ::)

Driving and operation
Cruise control 3
Cruise control can store and maintain
speeds of approx. 20 to 125 mph (30 to 200
km/h). Deviation from the saved speed is
possible on uphill or downhill inclines.
For safety reasons the cruise control
cannot be activated until the foot brake
has been operated once.
Cruise control is operated with
buttons m, g, and § on the turn signal
stalk.
Do not use the cruise control if it is not
advisable to maintain a constant speed
(e.g. in situations presenting a danger to
yourself and other road users, in heavy
traffic or on winding, slippery or greasy

Sorry boys but no cruise.

Also...how do I turn off the traction control/ESP system? No TC button like the Omega.

....and where the fook is the sport button for the auto box? ??? ???

There is no intervention allowed regarding tc/esp,I can't believe that Elite spec doesn't have cruise either.

It sounds like a case of 'nanny knows best'. :-\ >:(

The cruise function is on the indicator switch but is appears to be linked to SFA. Nothing lights up on the panel.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 June 2015, 20:40:16
Also Tc switch is to right of radio, in same place as Tc switch in Omega, might be one below it... But seriously...

Please read the manual :y
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: ronnyd on 15 June 2015, 21:17:17
Opti, what,s an SP30. ???
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: chrisgixer on 15 June 2015, 21:24:10
Can cruise be added as easily as on the omega?

....still think the Dr has lost it in the car somewhere, but there we are. ;)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: chrisgixer on 15 June 2015, 21:25:46
Sp30 is a driving license code for SPeeding in a 30mph limit. Sp40/50/70 etc
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: TheBoy on 15 June 2015, 21:26:22
I'm assuming the mirror of NCD won't apply if the main driver is different  :(
Correct, I doubt they'd go for that.

However, you may be able to negotiate a discount based on the fact the other driver hasn't had an accident, just simply hasn't needed a car for a while....
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: TheBoy on 15 June 2015, 21:27:35
Sp30 is a driving license code for SPeeding in a 30mph limit. Sp40/50/70 etc
SP30 is any speeding offence, not just at 30mph
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: ronnyd on 15 June 2015, 21:28:45
Sp30 is a driving license code for SPeeding in a 30mph limit. Sp40/50/70 etc
Thanks Chris, naughty boy Opti. ;D
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: TheBoy on 15 June 2015, 21:29:12
Can cruise be added as easily as on the omega?

....still think the Dr has lost it in the car somewhere, but there we are. ;)
Unlikely to be as easy, as it'll be CAN.  So you'll have to frig about with lots of ECUs to get the ficker working.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: chrisgixer on 15 June 2015, 21:33:14
I had sp30/40 and 50 at one point, in my yoof. Gixer learned no pay attention. MORE.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 June 2015, 21:34:16
Can cruise be added as easily as on the omega?

....still think the Dr has lost it in the car somewhere, but there we are. ;)
Unlikely to be as easy, as it'll be CAN.  So you'll have to frig about with lots of ECUs to get the ficker working.
Fitted as standard on Exclusive up... V6 will have Tc and gearbox modes are on the shiftplate iirc, but only had the misfortune to drive one slushbox Vectra C... :-\

Have a Facelift Vectra C owners manual at home so will double check intmornink ;)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: chrisgixer on 15 June 2015, 21:36:03
Dr I thought we talked about front wheel drive auto's...?
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 22:12:30
Also Tc switch , in same pis to right of radiolace as Tc switch in Omega, might be one below it... But seriously...

Please read the manual :y

No. Blank switch....and no sport button.

....and IHPlease read the manual. :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: henryd on 15 June 2015, 22:18:13
Also Tc switch is to right of radio, in same place as Tc switch in Omega, might be one below it... But seriously...

Please read the manual :y

They ain't all got the switch,mine didn't.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: VXL V6 on 15 June 2015, 22:19:29
Thought they removed the ability to turn TC off on some cars as disabling it was a grey area for some insurance companies..... Strangely though we aren't all 17 and the vast majority of us have been driving long enough to have driven cars without ABS and TC. Any excuse from insurance companies to get out of a claim IMHO.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 June 2015, 22:23:39
Unless it's a slushbox thing :-\
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 22:46:01
Also Tc switch is to right of radio, in same place as Tc switch in Omega, might be one below it... But seriously...

Please read the manual :y

They ain't all got the switch,mine didn't.

I tried to tell that Taxi al chappie, Henry..... but would he listen... ;D ;D

The lack of a sport button pisses me off though because of the delay when you hoof it. :-\
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 June 2015, 23:01:24
Thought they removed the ability to turn TC off on some cars as disabling it was a grey area for some insurance companies..... Strangely though we aren't all 17 and the vast majority of us have been driving long enough to have driven cars without ABS and TC. Any excuse from insurance companies to get out of a claim IMHO.

.. and some TC systems simply refuse to move in snow and ice. ::)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 15 June 2015, 23:08:26
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 23:17:47
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 15 June 2015, 23:22:57
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.

Maybe you should have bought a Ford!  :o  ;D
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2015, 23:27:20
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.

Maybe you should have bought a Ford!  :o  ;D

The last Ford I owned was a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 GLX. It was a 1991 model on a 'J' plate.

The 2 litre twin cam engine  was pretty quick for it's day. :y
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 15 June 2015, 23:36:17
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.

Maybe you should have bought a Ford!  :o  ;D

The last Ford I owned was a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 GLX. It was a 1991 model on a 'J' plate.

The 2 litre twin cam engine  was pretty quick for it's day. :y

Snap! Well almost.  I had a Sierra 2.0 Ghia hatch on a 'J' plate.  Good car.  :y

I left it with a girlfriend to sell for me when I went abroad to work and never saw her again....... or the cash!  ::)  Bitch!  ;D
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 June 2015, 00:37:34
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.

Maybe you should have bought a Ford!  :o  ;D

The last Ford I owned was a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 GLX. It was a 1991 model on a 'J' plate.

The 2 litre twin cam engine  was pretty quick for it's day. :y

Snap! Well almost.  I had a Sierra 2.0 Ghia hatch on a 'J' plate.  Good car.  :y

I left it with a girlfriend to sell for me when I went abroad to work and never saw her again....... or the cash!  ::)  Bitch!  ;D

That's women for you, Sir Tig. ;D ;D
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 June 2015, 09:04:48
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.

Maybe you should have bought a Ford!  :o  ;D

The last Ford I owned was a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 GLX. It was a 1991 model on a 'J' plate.

The 2 litre twin cam engine  was pretty quick for it's day. :y

Snap! Well almost.  I had a Sierra 2.0 Ghia hatch on a 'J' plate.  Good car.  :y

I left it with a girlfriend to sell for me when I went abroad to work and never saw her again....... or the cash!  ::)  Bitch!  ;D

That's women for you, Sir Tig. ;D ;D

It was OK M'lud, as she showered me with expensive presents to try and stop me from going abroad, so I guess she was just trying to recoup her wasted investment!  ::)  ;D  I still have the TAG watch which even in 1999 was worth more than my Sierra!  :y
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: TheBoy on 16 June 2015, 22:20:00
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.
At least it will play MP3s on CDs, so you should be able to get 80-100 pop tracks per disk
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Vamps on 16 June 2015, 22:38:35
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.

Maybe you should have bought a Ford!  :o  ;D

The last Ford I owned was a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 GLX. It was a 1991 model on a 'J' plate.

The 2 litre twin cam engine  was pretty quick for it's day. :y

Snap! Well almost.  I had a Sierra 2.0 Ghia hatch on a 'J' plate.  Good car.  :y

I left it with a girlfriend to sell for me when I went abroad to work and never saw her again....... or the cash!  ::)  Bitch!  ;D

And again! I had a 2.0 GLS/GLX? hatch on a D plate, lovely car, used to use if for Mini Cabbing, at weekends.............. ;) ;)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 June 2015, 10:33:09
Why do you need cruise on a shopping trolley?  :-\  ;D

Surely you'll still be using the Omega for your trips to your Welsh Castle?  :y

Don't want or need it. I just presumed in Elite spec it would be included. :-\

Also, while I'm moaning ::) ::),......a single CD player. :-\

MY MV6 takes 4 discs.....the RX8 takes 6.

Maybe you should have bought a Ford!  :o  ;D

The last Ford I owned was a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 GLX. It was a 1991 model on a 'J' plate.

The 2 litre twin cam engine  was pretty quick for it's day. :y

Snap! Well almost.  I had a Sierra 2.0 Ghia hatch on a 'J' plate.  Good car.  :y

I left it with a girlfriend to sell for me when I went abroad to work and never saw her again....... or the cash!  ::)  Bitch!  ;D

And again! I had a 2.0 GLS/GLX? hatch on a D plate, lovely car, used to use if for Mini Cabbing, at weekends.............. ;) ;)

Would not a Datsun have been preferable?.... ::) ::) ;)
Title: Re: I have just insured my new car.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 June 2015, 10:38:30
Sierra can only takes 4 passengers.

.......a Datsun Sunny can take twelve. :)