Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 20 June 2015, 14:58:20

Title: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 20 June 2015, 14:58:20
I've just lifted the cover on my dreary old Signum to find the battery is a Bosch 74 A/H unit.

Original equipment or replacement?

I was under the impression that all Vauxhall cars came from the factory with GM branded batteries.

I'm hoping it is a replacement as the car was registered in July 2007.
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 June 2015, 21:10:26
Be a replacement one :y
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 20 June 2015, 22:04:50
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: The Sheriff on 20 June 2015, 22:08:26
We wouldn't have these problems if Duracell made car batteries. ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: pauls on 20 June 2015, 22:10:25
We wouldn't have these problems if Duracell made car batteries. ;D

they do....
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 20 June 2015, 22:14:02
We wouldn't have these problems if Duracell made car batteries. ;D

they do....

http://www.duracell-automotive.com/en/products/product-overview.html

So no more problems then. ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: The Sheriff on 20 June 2015, 22:14:46
We wouldn't have these problems if Duracell made car batteries. ;D

they do....
They do? Well........what an informative forum this is. ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 June 2015, 22:18:35
https://youtu.be/tiHR11QqIoI :D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 20 June 2015, 22:20:57
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: ronnyd on 20 June 2015, 23:05:03
Yeah, but how much? ???
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Broomies Mate on 20 June 2015, 23:09:00
Major Opti - The Bosch battery will be better than what was supplied from the factory, so be thankful that the previous owner spent a few more quid than necessary on keeping her in good condition.
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Bigron on 20 June 2015, 23:29:26
Assuming that your 74 A-h battery still has that capacity (reduction takes place over time....), and your quiescent current drain is the typical figure of 80 mA, it will take 925 hours to discharge it from full in your airport car park - in other words, 38.5 days.
That amounts to a long holiday!
 ;D

Ron.
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 20 June 2015, 23:32:53
Major Opti - The Bosch battery will be better than what was supplied from the factory, so be thankful that the previous owner spent a few more quid than necessary on keeping her in good condition.

I've no idea when the battery was changed but I'm guessing the original GM battery should last 3 or 4 years as a minimum.

This suggests the new battery is 'relatively recent'.

I'm pleased about this because I've noticed the front tyres are significantly worn. Three hundred miles ago they seemed fine. :'(

Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Broomies Mate on 20 June 2015, 23:35:37
Major Opti - The Bosch battery will be better than what was supplied from the factory, so be thankful that the previous owner spent a few more quid than necessary on keeping her in good condition.

I've no idea when the battery was changed but I'm guessing the original GM battery should last 3 or 4 years as a minimum.

This suggests the new battery is 'relatively recent'.

I'm pleased about this because I've noticed the front tyres are significantly worn. Three hundred miles ago they seemed fine. :'(

Tell me about it!  I have driven the 2.8 V6 in Saab form, and it's a bit of an animal.  You are welcome to try my 4pot and see how that compares!  Bring a spare set of kecks though!  ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 20 June 2015, 23:49:12
These two pictures cracked me up  ;D

(http://www.duracell-automotive.com/fileadmin/content/img/duracell-starter.png)(http://www.duracell-automotive.com/fileadmin/content/img/duracell-professional.png)
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: TheBoy on 21 June 2015, 09:54:28
We wouldn't have these problems if Duracell made car batteries. ;D
Except, if they are anything like their disposable ones, they'd leak everywhere  >:(
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 21 June 2015, 10:43:05
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.

Nobody?

Not just me then. ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Lazydocker on 21 June 2015, 11:14:54
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.

Nobody?

Not just me then. ;D

Depends how long a holiday... As you well know, mine was flat ::)
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 21 June 2015, 11:25:05
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.

Nobody?

Not just me then. ;D

Depends how long a holiday... As you well know, mine was flat ::)

No ill effects I hope? It was run up for half an hour regularly.


But no car battery will cope with 6 weeks without a charge. Surely?
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Lazydocker on 21 June 2015, 11:31:00
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.

Nobody?

Not just me then. ;D

Depends how long a holiday... As you well know, mine was flat ::)

No ill effects I hope? It was run up for half an hour regularly.


But no car battery will cope with 6 weeks without a charge. Surely?

Been fine  :y

I would be surprised if any battery survived with the drain of an alarm etc... The Panda, however, was fine!!
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: The Sheriff on 21 June 2015, 11:39:25
Mine hasn't got an alarm.  ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: r1 on 21 June 2015, 12:23:39
These two pictures cracked me up  ;D

(http://www.duracell-automotive.com/fileadmin/content/img/duracell-starter.png)(http://www.duracell-automotive.com/fileadmin/content/img/duracell-professional.png)

you need to get out more!
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: TheBoy on 21 June 2015, 14:09:28
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.
"Better" needs more clarification. Capacity is only part of the story. Include in what sort of cranking power you need, likely temperatures, how much internal discharge, as well as external discharge, you can tolerate, and so on.

Car batteries, like many other battery technologies, do not like being left in a partially discharged state. So if you regularly go away for 2 weeks, expect a short life from it. A car that gets a decent run every few days will likely keep the battery lasting longer, assuming everything else is tip-top.

Obviously, if car is left for long periods, it may be prudent to disconnect it to reduce discharge.
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 21 June 2015, 15:23:16
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.
"Better" needs more clarification. Capacity is only part of the story. Include in what sort of cranking power you need, likely temperatures, how much internal discharge, as well as external discharge, you can tolerate, and so on.

Car batteries, like many other battery technologies, do not like being left in a partially discharged state. So if you regularly go away for 2 weeks, expect a short life from it. A car that gets a decent run every few days will likely keep the battery lasting longer, assuming everything else is tip-top.

Obviously, if car is left for long periods, it may be prudent to disconnect it to reduce discharge.

Better ? .... More amp hours? Can you have too many? Can you have too little? GM tc supply 70ah as fitted to mine. Can this be Improved on by simpy fitting a higher ah battery?

I have no idea what amp hours do, along with the othe r 4 numbers printed on the top. It's just what GM say is suitable for my car. I dunno. Is it suitable because that's what they happen to have to sell me? Or is that the exact spec the car needs? If so why? If not what SHOULD be fitted!

Mine says;
GM
12 01 212 (presume a part number? )
12v
70ah
255 coca din
510 eca en

It cost about £45 on tc. There is a Bosch 72 ah, is same size 275 mm long, but is almost twice the price. If I did slot of short journeys would this battery help? For example...?
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Bigron on 21 June 2015, 18:38:21
Chris, as with most things in Engineering, mechanical and electrical, you could spend a lifetime studying batteries.
In brief, there are two major parameters of interest to motorists where car batteries are concerned, CCA (Cold ranking Amperage) and Capacity. The former (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_measure_cca_cold_cranking_amp) determines how well suited the battery is for starting the car and the higher the CCA figure, the better it is at turning over the engine, especially diesel.
The latter, Capacity (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_measure_capacity), measured in Ampere-hours, indicates how long a battery will supply current for into a given load. The unit is a product of load (amps) and time (hours).
My battery is rated at 560A CCA and 60A-h Capacity. The CCA figure is more than adequate to start my 2.6 petrol and the Capacity figure would be fine if it were true! However, my own tests (discharging into a 12 amp load) shwed that it lowered its terminal voltage to 7 volts after just over 1 hour, giving a true figure for an aging battery of approx, 15 A-h.
In this case, given that the Omega has a quiescent current drain of 85mA (0.085A), it would be discharged in 15/0.085 hours, i.e. 176 hours or 7.35 days. I consider this to be inadequate and will be looking to replace it.....

Ron
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 21 June 2015, 19:02:58
Thanks Ron.

So basickly 2ah and a few minor increases on the other figures won't make any odds on a 3.2 petrol omega? Or not enough to warrant almost double the price anyway. Given a 3 year warranty.

Would that be fair to say?
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 21 June 2015, 19:14:02
These two pictures cracked me up  ;D

(http://www.duracell-automotive.com/fileadmin/content/img/duracell-starter.png)(http://www.duracell-automotive.com/fileadmin/content/img/duracell-professional.png)

you need to get out more!

Been out today feel much better thanks for the advice, These bunnies aren't so amusing today ::)
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 21 June 2015, 19:16:23
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.
"Better" needs more clarification. Capacity is only part of the story. Include in what sort of cranking power you need, likely temperatures, how much internal discharge, as well as external discharge, you can tolerate, and so on.

Car batteries, like many other battery technologies, do not like being left in a partially discharged state. So if you regularly go away for 2 weeks, expect a short life from it. A car that gets a decent run every few days will likely keep the battery lasting longer, assuming everything else is tip-top.

Obviously, if car is left for long periods, it may be prudent to disconnect it to reduce discharge.

Mine is the original ..... 7 years old approx....but then it had a decent run on Friday....450 miles  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 21 June 2015, 19:21:34
Bought a Bosch S5 (74Ah) around January from CP4L sure it was around £80 delivered been fine so far, Left the car untouched awhile ago while doing work on it for around 2 weeks apart from opening/closing doors/windows occasionally and it still started swiftly with no indication it was running low  :y
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 21 June 2015, 19:23:24
We wouldn't have these problems if Duracell made car batteries. ;D
Except, if they are anything like their disposable ones, they'd leak everywhere  >:(

I buy the procell or industrial ones from ebay ( I think the industrial ones are replacing the procell)
Never have a problem with them.....and cheap as chips.
I used to buy rechargeable batts.....but at the price you can get the above mentioned duracells I don't bother anymore  :y
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Bigron on 21 June 2015, 19:56:40
Chris, you will NEVER notice the difference - save your pennies!

Ron.
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 21 June 2015, 20:02:40
Chris, you will NEVER notice the difference - save your pennies!

Ron.

:y
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 21 June 2015, 20:09:31
Chris, you will NEVER notice the difference - save your pennies!

Ron.

:y

And drive it 450 miles everyday, that way your battery will last for years... :y

But then again...how much fuel a 3.2 will use....you could buy a new battery every day  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 21 June 2015, 20:51:21
Chris, you will NEVER notice the difference - save your pennies!

Ron.

:y

And drive it 450 miles everyday, that way your battery will last for years... :y

But then again...how much fuel a 3.2 will use....you could buy a new battery every day  ;D ;D

Aye?
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: DrAndyB on 21 June 2015, 22:27:23
Major Opti - The Bosch battery will be better than what was supplied from the factory

I am still on my original GM battery in my MIG !!!!! (I have had the car from new, so I know its original and she is 15 years old :) and going strong ! )

Interesting to see how long a Bosch one would last me then when it's time to change my "Less better" GM battery   ;)!!!!
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: TheBoy on 22 June 2015, 10:21:31
It's happened again. A post comes up on a subject just as I'm thinking of it. Oof is telepathic at times :y

If Dr doesn't mind, can I ask, what sets the criteria for battery type? Amp hours and all the other numbers printed on the top..?

Mine has a 70 ah fitted. Will that cover all eventualities like short journeys and long stay car parks at the airport etc?

Is there better available? Within the dimensions of that battery box of course as a bigger one won't fit.
"Better" needs more clarification. Capacity is only part of the story. Include in what sort of cranking power you need, likely temperatures, how much internal discharge, as well as external discharge, you can tolerate, and so on.

Car batteries, like many other battery technologies, do not like being left in a partially discharged state. So if you regularly go away for 2 weeks, expect a short life from it. A car that gets a decent run every few days will likely keep the battery lasting longer, assuming everything else is tip-top.

Obviously, if car is left for long periods, it may be prudent to disconnect it to reduce discharge.

Better ? .... More amp hours? Can you have too many? Can you have too little? GM tc supply 70ah as fitted to mine. Can this be Improved on by simpy fitting a higher ah battery?

I have no idea what amp hours do, along with the othe r 4 numbers printed on the top. It's just what GM say is suitable for my car. I dunno. Is it suitable because that's what they happen to have to sell me? Or is that the exact spec the car needs? If so why? If not what SHOULD be fitted!

Mine says;
GM
12 01 212 (presume a part number? )
12v
70ah
255 coca din
510 eca en

It cost about £45 on tc. There is a Bosch 72 ah, is same size 275 mm long, but is almost twice the price. If I did slot of short journeys would this battery help? For example...?
Given your (nearly) daily commute, the UK temps being moderate, I'd stick with TC ones. Even if they don't last as long (and in my experience, they last well), at that cost, they are almost disposable.

And I put my money where my mouth is, as the Bullet had a TC one shoved in probably 6 or 7 years ago (the day I ripped the sump plug out of the tractor - as I was on way back from dealer after buying battery) to replace its original one. I think TBE is still on its original (as was the Rover when it was written off), and would likely get a TC one if it failed.


But even the best car batt will suffer permanent damage every time its left for long periods in a semi discharged state (ie, left unused and abandoned at the airport for a couple of weeks at a time).
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 June 2015, 11:05:07
Major Opti - The Bosch battery will be better than what was supplied from the factory

I am still on my original GM battery in my MIG !!!!! (I have had the car from new, so I know its original and she is 15 years old :) and going strong ! )

Interesting to see how long a Bosch one would last me then when it's time to change my "Less better" GM battery   ;)!!!!

Original GM batteries were made by Bosch!

In recent years they have moved over to Varta but there still pretty good

As for battery choice, remember to get a calcium one as the alternator charge voltage has been designed around this tech so peaks slightly higher than a normal lead acid......
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 22 June 2015, 12:50:42
Thank you gents.

Confirms my thinking. Go batteries aside imo, gym batteries are fine for the money and a three year warranty.

Yuasa, Bosch and Varta all very good makes. But all are almost twice the price of a Gm battery on tc. In my case, £41.12 plus vat :)
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 June 2015, 13:01:15
And the GM battery will most likely be a Varta anyway
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: henryd on 22 June 2015, 14:24:16
Thank you gents.

Confirms my thinking. Go batteries aside imo, gym batteries are fine for the money and a three year warranty.

Yuasa, Bosch and Varta all very good makes. But all are almost twice the price of a Gm battery on tc. In my case, £41.12 plus vat :)

Presuming these are very fit batteries :D :D ;)
Title: Re: Original battery or replacement battery?
Post by: chrisgixer on 22 June 2015, 17:37:41
Thankyou. I will pm this off to the member concerned along :y