Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: pauls on 06 July 2015, 10:41:32
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Can somebody explain why.
Mate has a 2004 1.6l petrol focus last week he asked me if i Knew why when he turned his aircon on his car cut out. I told him to pop into kwik fit and get is battery etc checked which he did and all was ok. The following day the car wouldnt start so he called the AA. The AA man said it was the starter motor which he swapped over and now the car and aircon all run fine now.
my question is whats the starter motor got to do with the battery alternator and why would it cause the car to stall
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Icv valve could have been the problem,starter motor,can go at anytime on any car ,thats sods law coming into play and nothing you can do about it.
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It's common for the starter/alternator and battery to all be on the same dedicated loom. Although I don't see how the two are linked otherwise, or even with relevance.
The problem could be to do with the Ford 'smart' charging system, which when it works, is great, when it breaks or you need to jump start a car - you are in for a world of pain.
Take a look see...
http://www.petercoopercarrepairs.co.uk/ford_focus_alternator_smart_charging.htm
(Who builds a charging system that allows the alternator to give out 18v???? Without any safety checks. Posh battery needed as well. The future is here and it's unnecessarily complex.)
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It's common for the starter/alternator and battery to all be on the same dedicated loom. Although I don't see how the two are linked otherwise, or even with relevance.
The problem could be to do with the Ford 'smart' charging system, which when it works, is great, when it breaks or you need to jump start a car - you are in for a world of pain.
Take a look see...
http://www.petercoopercarrepairs.co.uk/ford_focus_alternator_smart_charging.htm
(Who builds a charging system that allows the alternator to give out 18v???? Without any safety checks. Posh battery needed as well. The future is here and it's unnecessarily complex.)
Very useful post and link. I didn't realise that smart charge systems are now being used.
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We seem to have managed perfectly well for decades without the unnecessary complication of "smart" (= over-complex) charging systems.
If you are unfortunate enough to need a jump=start with one of these systems, would disconnecting the car battery before getting a boost charge from the donor battery be sufficient to fool the smart bit when re-connected?
Ron.
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The way I see it, the only safe way to jump start one of these would be with a charged battery that isn't connected to a vehicle. IE, disconnect the earth on the doner car and then if the leads are thick enough, it may work.
If that didn't work, I'd disconnect the earth wire on the Ford, leave the doner battery connected to the doner vehicle. Start doner car to top charge up in dead battery before trying the top sentence again.
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It's common for the starter/alternator and battery to all be on the same dedicated loom. Although I don't see how the two are linked otherwise, or even with relevance.
The problem could be to do with the Ford 'smart' charging system, which when it works, is great, when it breaks or you need to jump start a car - you are in for a world of pain.
Take a look see...
http://www.petercoopercarrepairs.co.uk/ford_focus_alternator_smart_charging.htm
(Who builds a charging system that allows the alternator to give out 18v???? Without any safety checks. Posh battery needed as well. The future is here and it's unnecessarily complex.)
Errrr.....every alternator ever made?
Short an alternator regulator out and you will get 18V plus (and the regulators fail either short circuit or open circuit)
And the explanation has a few floors.....you wont get 18V into a discharged battery, the alternator will run at full current but the volts will be unable to rise.
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Can't see why that would affect jump starting either.
Smart charging is a pretty basic concept. The normal operation of the alternator is augmented by a signal from the ECU, so its' knowledge of the electrical load, engine operating parameters and so on can be used to optimise the performance of the system.
Nothing magic there, it's just that the trade can't comprehend it, so suddenly it's the cause of all "unexplained" woes. ::)
Makes sense, really. Battery charging is best done with a knowledge of temperature, and with ECU input you can do things like avoiding charging heavily at high RPM where the alternator is inefficient, taking more current on the overrun to make it more efficient and boost charging after startup when load is high and journeys are short.
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I seem to be having some smart charging problems on the BMW (E64) - occasional under or over charging which at best throws a charging fault and at worst causes transient electrical noise that makes random electronic systems throw fault codes.. d'oh.
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Valid points, I'm just aware of what I've seen and read.
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If you jump start a car with a Calcium battery, will the smart charging system charge it okay, as I know you need a smart charger for this if charging off the car?
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The only difference between a standard battery and a calcium one (and be aware, the standard VX batteries are Calcium ones......) is the peak charge voltage is a few hundred millivolts higher.
No fancy charger really needed as a standard one will get close to 100% charged anyway.
The latest charge setups have a CAN interface to the regulator and compensate for temperature plus they also monitor battery drain via a current shunt on the battery terminal.