Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: amazonian on 19 October 2015, 13:29:31
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Advice please chaps,
My local garage has just fitted a new thermostat-temp sensor-injector top seal-4x leak off pipes-one way valve primer bulb-oil and filter change and have found that they are having a devil of a job starting the car and reckon that the fuel pump may be tired or whatever.
Anyway they have suggested a relatively cheap fix involving fitting a lift pump to the fuel line somewhere under the car and reckon that should do the job.
Said its an easy and fairly quick job and the pump itself is only around £30-40.
I have used this garage on many occasions and have always found them helpful and fair,but just wondered if this sounds a good idea, as Vauxhall didnt fit one as standard on the 2.2DTi.
As usual any ideas very gratefuly received.
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There not bleeding the system correctly, the prescribed method for a VP44 is to apply a vacuum to draw the fuel through air and all.
Excessive cranking without bleeding the system will goose the injector pump.........lets hope they have not done this
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Thank you Mark, I have just rung the garage and informed them of your advice, and it seems the guy who is working on it was with a local vauxhall dealer for 20 years and is used to Omegas.
They had a conversation and he has apparently already done what you advised, so they have located a lift pump and seem fairly confident it should do the job.
What do you think?
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Sounds like they can't find the fault so are "bodging" (although not a bad one in the grand scheme of things) it to get it sorted. Not sure if I'd go that way or not :-\
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Sounds like a bleeding issue. If they come back saying the main injection pump has failed, then they caused it. Running the VP44 dry will damage it mechanically and electronically, and will not be economically viable to fix.
Alarm bells always ring when I hear "Vauxhall trained mechanic" :-X
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Hmm, hope its a low pressure pump! seen a dt fitted with a "lift" pump, and it did nothing but smoke like billyo engine was all over the shop with surging ,drove horribly,turns out whoever fitted the pump had used a high pressure pump instead of low pressure, it was forcing fuel through,as it was running!
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Oh gawd elp me, not looking forward to tomorrow now when I go and collect it.
Better get my postcount up smartish as there could be another Omega for sale soon
Thanks for your comments anyhow lads, I suppose its only a car innit.
:-\
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Thank you Mark, I have just rung the garage and informed them of your advice, and it seems the guy who is working on it was with a local vauxhall dealer for 20 years and is used to Omegas.
They had a conversation and he has apparently already done what you advised, so they have located a lift pump and seem fairly confident it should do the job.
What do you think?
There is a problem then where air is getting in :y
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So I picked up my car from the garage and it started on the button.
Drove it home and would have sworn it was pulling better and seemed quieter than before.
Next morning it didnt want to start, but once going it was great, definitely more power for some reason qoieter.
Next 2 days the same, reluctant to start but great when going..........UNTIL I was doing 30mph along Brighton seafront and it suddenly decided to go from about 800rpm to MAX revs in an instant accompanied by a huge cloud of smoke.
I put my foot on the clutch and headed for the kerb, pulled up and switched off but the big silver b@gger just kept on going !!!
I had to stall it to stop but it was reluctant even to do that and took several seconds before it finally shuddered to a stop, during which I was enveloped in a massive cloud of blue/grey smoke.
RAC man turns up and I explained it all to him, so he reaches in to switch on the ignition and I advised him against it, but he does it anyway and it starts instantly and goes to maximum revs and once again I am encased in a great cloud of smoke.
He leaps in to the car and switches off ignition to no avail and then tries to stall it, again to no avail until the car edges forwards and rests up against his van, at which point it finally stopped.
At no point did RAC raise the bonnet, but his opinion was that the turbo, or somethig in it broke and the engine was burning the oil from it which is why it would not turn off.
A very scary experience though at the time, although it seems quite amusing now as I type this.
Anyway, as I half expected when I was forced to take this in to the garage in the first place, this car is now only scrap.
Shame I cant advertise on here though
:( :(
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Sounds like the garage that did the job beggared it up big time >:( I'd be having a few words with them.
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So I picked up my car from the garage and it started on the button.
Drove it home and would have sworn it was pulling better and seemed quieter than before.
Next morning it didnt want to start, but once going it was great, definitely more power for some reason qoieter.
Next 2 days the same, reluctant to start but great when going..........UNTIL I was doing 30mph along Brighton seafront and it suddenly decided to go from about 800rpm to MAX revs in an instant accompanied by a huge cloud of smoke.
I put my foot on the clutch and headed for the kerb, pulled up and switched off but the big silver b@gger just kept on going !!!
I had to stall it to stop but it was reluctant even to do that and took several seconds before it finally shuddered to a stop, during which I was enveloped in a massive cloud of blue/grey smoke.
RAC man turns up and I explained it all to him, so he reaches in to switch on the ignition and I advised him against it, but he does it anyway and it starts instantly and goes to maximum revs and once again I am encased in a great cloud of smoke.
He leaps in to the car and switches off ignition to no avail and then tries to stall it, again to no avail until the car edges forwards and rests up against his van, at which point it finally stopped.
At no point did RAC raise the bonnet, but his opinion was that the turbo, or somethig in it broke and the engine was burning the oil from it which is why it would not turn off.
A very scary experience though at the time, although it seems quite amusing now as I type this.
Anyway, as I half expected when I was forced to take this in to the garage in the first place, this car is now only scrap.
Shame I cant advertise on here though
:( :(
More directly to the garage that 'fixed' it, do not pass go etc just make it very clear they need to sort it!
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Indeed, take it back to them... and have words.
Incidentally, what happens if you disconnect the lift pump?
Also, when was oil level checked last?
This behaviour is typical of too much fuel being pumped in, whether from faulty injectors/seal or a n other cause... forcing excess diesel into the sump... this raises the sump level until the engine starts to syphon the sump... it then runs on the sump contents until it either runs out of supply and goes bang, or you stall it...
Not normally an Omega issue, but common on poorly maintained vans...
Drain the sump down, refill correct amount of oil and disconnect lift pump... and try again...
Would offer to look at it but next day off is 30th if that's any use :-\
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almost exactly what i was saying, the pump throws to much fuel in, an revs rise to horrific levels,turbo seals let go engine revs faster and faster, rac man should have known better!!
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Well I am not totaly surprised it happened, its why I have been trying to get someone from OOF to do the work, but could not, so had to go to local garage.
It makes sense what you guys say though, maybe disconnecting the lift pump would sort it, but lord knows what else would need looking at before I dared start it again.
As to the oil level being checked they did an oil and filter change as part of the job so level should have been okay.
Harris K Telemacher, I have sent you a PM as well but yes the 30th would be a great deal of use if you could manage it
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Well I am not totaly surprised it happened, its why I have been trying to get someone from OOF to do the work, but could not, so had to go to local garage.
It makes sense what you guys say though, maybe disconnecting the lift pump would sort it, but lord knows what else would need looking at before I dared start it again.
As to the oil level being checked they did an oil and filter change as part of the job so level should have been okay.
Harris K Telemacher, I have sent you a PM as well but yes the 30th would be a great deal of use if you could manage it
Return it to the garage. They bodged it and caused this, no ifs or buts.
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I'd be very surprised if the modification they did wasn't illegal in some way or another
I'd be having a word with DVSA (VOSA) and trading standards first >:(
Silly bastards like that shouldn't be allowed to pick up a spanner IMO >:(
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What to do in the short term? Thinking along the lines of permanently opening the dump valve to disable the turbo :-\
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What to do in the short term? Thinking along the lines of permanently opening the dump valve to disable the turbo :-\
If the pump is over-fuelling, that will just reduce the amount of air that gets in. OK, it'll reduce the power output when it does go postal, but won't stop the engine overspeeding.
The bottom line is that the system was designed without a lift pump. Every other DTi runs quite happily in that configuration, so your car had a fault - probably a small leak.
The mechanic thought he knew better, so rather than bother to find the leak, he's modified the car in a way that might well have killed it. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/ohfffs.gif)
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Well I rang the garage and the 'foreman' said he would come to my house tomorrow and have a look at it, but rang back 2 hours later and said he could come now.
So he came and tried to start it, and eventually it fired up and ran sweetly for 4 seconds and then erupted to max revs, forcing him to stall it to stop it.
He then removed the fuse to disable the lift pump and tried it again and it would not start at all.
They are going to take it back to the garage tomorrow and have a look at it,obviously at no charge, and we will see what happens then.
Meanwhile I am off to Dorset to pick up my new aquisition, hoping its as good as it looks on the net, and as good as it sounds from the owners description.
Think its called 'sold as UNseen'
:D :) :D :)
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Got the decision from the garage today regarding my 2.2Dti, and as expected its now officially another omega for the scrapyard.
Apparently the fuel pumps knackered and they removed 15lts of fuel from the sump, (or something ? ) but if it starts and runs it very soon reverts to maximum revs, so unless anyone on here thinks its worth doing it will have to be put to sleep.
Shame though, as when it ran it ran very well.
:( :(
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Got the decision from the garage today regarding my 2.2Dti, and as expected its now officially another omega for the scrapyard.
Apparently the fuel pumps knackered and they removed 15lts of fuel from the sump, (or something ? ) but if it starts and runs it very soon reverts to maximum revs, so unless anyone on here thinks its worth doing it will have to be put to sleep.
Shame though, as when it ran it ran very well.
:( :(
I hope they are paying you well for it as they caused the problem :o :o >:(
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Could this be as straight forward as swapping the turbo for a n other, fuel pump and removing the lift pump?
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I doubt there's much wrong with the turbo, it's just been massively over-fuelling.
A dead fuel pump pretty much means a dead 2.2DTi, however. :(
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Hopefully others will benefit from your misfortune of being screwed over by retards, and remember what has always been well known:
DON'T FIT A LIFT PUMP TO A CAR NOT DESIGNED TO HAVE ONE
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Hopefully others will benefit from your misfortune of being screwed over by retards, and remember what has always been well known:
DON'T FIT A LIFT PUMP TO A CAR NOT DESIGNED TO HAVE ONE
Quite so squire, its the main reason I posted about it, as a lesson to others.
You can all learn from my mistakes.
I make so many you will all become as wise as Solomon in no time at all.
:) :)
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Hopefully others will benefit from your misfortune of being screwed over by retards, and remember what has always been well known:
DON'T FIT A LIFT PUMP TO A CAR NOT DESIGNED TO HAVE ONE
Quite so squire, its the main reason I posted about it, as a lesson to others.
You can all learn from my mistakes.
I make so many you will all become as wise as Solomon in no time at all.
:) :)
Not your mistake ;) Please, please, please tell me that the garage are compensating you? They (should) have liability insurance they can claim on to compensate you for their bad advice and bad workmanship!
The worry is that they will do this to someone else >:(