Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 10:59:46

Title: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 10:59:46
As you may know I, with the help of TB, replaced my timing belt kit yesterday from a Contitech with a Gates kit. The Contitech kit was 2 years old and had only done 10,000 miles.

The howling I sometimes got has gone.

Belt looks a bit worn to me but no obvious signs of imminent failure. in my opinion.

Tensioner and upper idler have no play or slop when you spin it but they do have some interesting ''scoring'' marks on the parts that contact the belt. Normal for two years of use? No idea.

HOWEVER, the lower idler has lots of forward and back play in the bearing. It also appears to have small particles of belt material baked on to it.

I assume this isn't normal.

If needed, I will post a video of the play in it.

So. Conclusion. A duff idler. Unless anyone confirms this play is normal.  :y
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Kevin Wood on 09 November 2015, 11:37:47
I've never found play in an idler bearing. A bullet dodged there. :y
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 November 2015, 11:49:43
You will get axial play in a bearing of that type.

Just remember that the Contitech idlers and tensioner are exactly the same parts, from the same factory, as the Gates ones  :y
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 11:50:12
I've never found play in an idler bearing. A bullet dodged there. :y

Thanks Kev,

Yeah that makes sense cos the upper idler is still solid!  :y
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 11:51:35
You will get axial play in a bearing of that type.

Just remember that the Contitech idlers and tensioner are exactly the same parts, from the same factory, as the Gates ones  :y

So how come the other one is solid still with noplay?
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 November 2015, 12:00:50
You understand what the axial play is?  :y
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 09 November 2015, 13:10:09
You understand what the axial play is?  :y
Rotational play caused by wear along the shaft by the loaded side of the bearing... You'll likely find the shaft or bearing internal bore are out of round ;)
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 14:46:43
I've no idea what axial play is.  :)

But I know I've got two idlers that look identical. They both feel the same when I spin them in my hand (perhaps the one with the play feels as though it lacks the same resistance as the one with no play but near enough the same) but one idler has in and out play, the other doesn't. That has to be a fault.... if not, why not? :)

Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 November 2015, 14:59:08
Always worthy of a picture:

(http://www.maintenanceresources.com/referencelibrary/ezine/images/maybearing.gif)

Now these bearings from memory are a twin race and hence you can see axial play but no radial play and axial play is not really a problem.  :y

I recall they are a standard bearing type (e.g. 0603 etc) so might be worth getting the number to understand the construction better.
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 15:03:14
Thanks for the diagram. So, yes, it appears axial play is what we are looking at.

But why does the other one not have this play?
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 15:04:13
....combined with a loud clicking noise I might add  :)
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 November 2015, 15:31:44
Thanks for the diagram. So, yes, it appears axial play is what we are looking at.

But why does the other one not have this play?

It may be a different bearing type used or down to manufacturing tolerances (if you find the bearing number we can look).

The clicking noise however is a different matter (and new info)  :y
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 15:45:32
Thanks for the diagram. So, yes, it appears axial play is what we are looking at.

But why does the other one not have this play?

It may be a different bearing type used or down to manufacturing tolerances (if you find the bearing number we can look).

The clicking noise however is a different matter (and new info)  :y

ok thanks mark. ill go and get the things out the boot tonight and post up.

yeahwhen you push the bearing in and out (in an axial way lol) theres a definite clunk aswell. I may even do a video  ;D
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 15:46:24
ps I presume bearing numbers will be written on or stamped on the old part?
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 November 2015, 15:55:05
Normally engraved on the edge of the outer race.

Every single one I have seen were French SKF parts
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 16:01:42
yeah pretty sure it said skf. but ill get the numbers in a bit :)
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 17:49:15
So here's the video of the play (ignore swmbo and ma talking about sofas in the background  ;D)

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Mobile%20Uploads/th_tmp_21324-20151109_170612475735828_zpslobxih5d.mp4) (http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_21324-20151109_170612475735828_zpslobxih5d.mp4)

its the portion in the middle that's clicking as you can see on the video. that may not even be the bearing. I don't know. but either wat i'm calling it shagged!

Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 09 November 2015, 18:11:56
....and a pic of the bits of baked on belt in comparison with the other one. its like this all around the pulley  :y

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Mobile%20Uploads/20151109_180112_zpspgkuubd3.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151109_180112_zpspgkuubd3.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Gaffers on 09 November 2015, 19:11:38
Every single one I have seen were French SKF parts

No wonder they fail then ::)
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Gaffers on 09 November 2015, 19:15:55
....and a pic of the bits of baked on belt in comparison with the other one. its like this all around the pulley  :y

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Mobile%20Uploads/20151109_180112_zpspgkuubd3.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151109_180112_zpspgkuubd3.jpg.html)

I wonder if that is from the old belt.  I have noticed when a belt rubs or gets damaged on the outer edge the bits accumulate by the bottom pulley.  If left behind it would be easy for some to fall on to it and then be pressed on to the metal.  That may explain the squeeking but not the clicking.
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 November 2015, 19:18:42
Could well be guff. But that play in the centre eccentric portion is not right, bloody glad I changed it  :y
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: dbug on 10 November 2015, 23:53:17
But Gates, Contitech and SKF kits all use the French made SKF bearings.  AS I've said before fitted 5 or 6 Contitech kits over the years without any issue, although latest kit fitted to Estate was a Gates (only because it was available about 6 months before for about £35), and again no issues with this to date.
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 November 2015, 09:38:52
Could well be guff. But that play in the centre eccentric portion is not right, bloody glad I changed it  :y

As already said, it might be right.....did you get the bearing number?
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 November 2015, 18:39:15
But Gates, Contitech and SKF kits all use the French made SKF bearings.  AS I've said before fitted 5 or 6 Contitech kits over the years without any issue, although latest kit fitted to Estate was a Gates (only because it was available about 6 months before for about £35), and again no issues with this to date.

That's fine. it's not a thread to try and harm Contitech sales. Just showing evidence of what potentially may have cost me another set of cylinder heads  :y
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 11 November 2015, 18:43:02
I think that all the belt kits I've seen use SKF bearings, even the £60 Dayco kit on Amazon.  :-\
Title: Re: Inspection of the Contitech belt kit reveals...
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 November 2015, 18:46:18
Could well be guff. But that play in the centre eccentric portion is not right, bloody glad I changed it  :y

As already said, it might be right.....did you get the bearing number?

I'm confident its not right. But.....

Numbers stamped on the pulley of the one with play:
on the outer pulley edge - SKF - J037 11:53 - 337185A - FRANCE - 90573616
on the maroon ball bearing cover - 0853