Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 14 November 2015, 12:23:42

Title: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 14 November 2015, 12:23:42
2000 Omega 2.5 petrol manual CDX estate
This is my second clutch job. On the first (Jan2014)  gearbox slid easily back on to engine. This one isn't going on. I suppose the gearbox input shaft is not engaging in the clutch centre. Is there a trick, a tehnique, of re-angaging it?
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 November 2015, 14:48:22
Suitable deep socket, 13mm springs to mind, with a long extension to centralise it.

Then as you offer the box up, pop it into gear using the tail of the linkage and rock the prop flange back and forth until it pops home, then back into neutral for rest of refitting.

Note that the box needs to be aligned true inorder to get it home cleanly... Quite easy to misalign the assembly if it's slightly on the piss :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Nick W on 14 November 2015, 14:49:56
If you engage a gear it will probably be possible to rotate the input shaft enough to align with the clutchplate splines. You do this by rotating the gearbox as you slide it forward.


But before you do that, recheck that the clutch plate is properly aligned with the flywheel. If you didn't use an alignment tool to do that, then it is guaranteed to be your problem.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: flyer 0712 on 14 November 2015, 15:16:38
As already suggested.....clutch alignment tool...or old school...an old motion shaft first to align up then remove it and box will glide into place.. :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Nick W on 14 November 2015, 15:45:25
As already suggested.....clutch alignment tool...or old school...an old motion shaft first to align up then remove it and box will glide into place.. :y


That's only really viable if you have a scrap gearbox - I still have a Ford T9 shaft with a handle welded on it, but its uses now are pretty limited!


A universal aligning tool is pretty cheap, a custom one is easy to make on a lathe, or really old school is some suitable pilot bearing sized dowel(or cut a bit off a broom handle) with insulating tape wrapped around it for the clutch plate. I have done them by eye, but it's hard work with the engine in the car, and prefer a more repeatable technique.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: flyer 0712 on 14 November 2015, 15:55:04
Nick that is so correct,,,,in the days gone bye my garage was shrewn with loads of odds and sods so was an every day event,,but these days as you say,,who keeps those bits laying around,,so it down to the alignment tool which is cheap enough and makes life so much easier  :y :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 14 November 2015, 16:16:49
Thanks for the advice gentlemen, I did use an alignment tool to centralise the clutch plate.
I will try again when I find the strength. I have the gearbox strapped to a jack and am working in my pit. Trouble is I am trapped in the pit until I get the gearbox on, unless SWMBO kindly jacks up a rear wheel and safely supports the car, to allow me to emerge. Now I need her help again to try out your suggestions, and she is busy. I have found a deep socket that fits snugly in the friction plate, that should help.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 November 2015, 16:18:55
That's how I do it ;) :-X
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 15 November 2015, 11:46:34
I suppose you will tell me my problem is alignment, but its proving jolly tricky. Now I get the g/b shaft some way n, probably up to the splines, then get stuck. I have engaged a gear, and can feel the splines beginning to engage, but it will go on no further. I attach 3 shots of the alignment of the g/b input shaft with a 19mm long socket sitting snugly in the clutch splines. I feel if if was more rough with it it might go on, but I am nrrvous of doing so. On my erlier clutch job it just popped easily in.
[urlhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/bqe7wgj36co75zs/GBsplines4%20o%20clock.jpg?dl=0][/url]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d5vk4duuxaqes3d/GBsplines%206%20o%20clock.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d5vk4duuxaqes3d/GBsplines%206%20o%20clock.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tm83jwcqnmsq2l/GBsplines%208%20o%20clock.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tm83jwcqnmsq2l/GBsplines%208%20o%20clock.jpg?dl=0)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 15 November 2015, 11:54:59
Just to add, of course I have to withdaw the g/b to extract my alignment tool, then advance again, which may cause some loss of alignment. I note JamesV6CDX mentions that some fellows grease the splines on reassembly, but points out this is risky as it may get on to the friction plate, requiring the whole job to be done again.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 November 2015, 12:15:27
Just to add, of course I have to withdaw the g/b to extract my alignment tool, then advance again, which may cause some loss of alignment. I note JamesV6CDX mentions that some fellows grease the splines on reassembly, but points out this is risky as it may get on to the friction plate, requiring the whole job to be done again.

Grease on the splines will also attract dust from the clutch and may cause problems further down the road.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Nick W on 15 November 2015, 12:32:00
I'm assuming that your alignment tool is a snug fit in both the crankshaft pilot bearing and the clutch plate. If that's the case, then your clutch is aligned. Tighten the clutch cover bolts to the correct setting and remove the tool. That will prevent the plate from moving as you align the input shaft with it. Also means you don't have to faff about tightening them with the box in place.

You did check that the clutch plate actually fits the gearbox?

Another thing I find helpful is use four lengths of studding instead of the bellhousing bolts to hold the gearbox while I adjust the input shaft. They don't need to be very long, 75mm is probably enough. I haven't done an Omega gearbox, but they are probably M10
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Andy H on 15 November 2015, 12:59:58
I'm assuming that your alignment tool is a snug fit in both the crankshaft pilot bearing and the clutch plate. If that's the case, then your clutch is aligned. Tighten the clutch cover bolts to the correct setting and remove the tool. That will prevent the plate from moving as you align the input shaft with it. Also means you don't have to faff about tightening them with the box in place.

You did check that the clutch plate actually fits the gearbox?

Another thing I find helpful is use four lengths of studding instead of the bellhousing bolts to hold the gearbox while I adjust the input shaft. They don't need to be very long, 75mm is probably enough. I haven't done an Omega gearbox, but they are probably M10
Even if the alignment tool (or an old 1st motion shaft) is a snug fit, you will find that the weight of the friction plate will pull it downward slightly.

When I fit a clutch I do the bolts on the cover/pressure plate up finger tight and then waggle the alignment tool up and down (mostly up) until I am happy the friction plate is centred, before  torquing the cover plate bolts.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 15 November 2015, 13:47:49
Thanks for further advice, chaps. Without this forum I should be lost.
I did not check that the g/b input shaft fits the friction plate splines. I should be amazed if it did not, but prpbably worth checking just for peace of mind. I used a LASER universal clutch alignment tool, which mereely aligns friction plate with pressure plate. Bearing in mind Andy's comment, it might be worth realiging plates too.

I like your stud idea, Nick. I shall pursue that. I wnder where I can buy stud?
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 November 2015, 14:07:16
On a Sunday probably homebase or b and q...
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Nick W on 15 November 2015, 14:08:42
Terry, any tool that doesn't reference the crankshaft cannot be considered a clutch alignment tool! Aligning the friction and pressure plates by eye is a good starting point for the rest of the procedure.

Studding is readily available from B&Q and similar places. You probably want M10, but you have the bellhousing bolts handy and can confirm that for yourself.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: baggers on 15 November 2015, 15:40:06
That's the way I do it, threaded dowel.  Get some threaded bar cut to length slide box down the dowels maybe a twist of the prop flange and your in.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 15 November 2015, 19:27:29
Nick, I appreciate your point that the alignment that matters is the friction plate centre with the crankshaft spigot bearing. This explains how the ideal tool for this purpose is an old gearbox input shaft. By aligning friction plate centre with pressure plate presumes the spigot bearing is concentric with the ring of bolts that hold the pressure plate to the flywheel.
Haynes make this point, the forum guide does not.
Can one buy alignment tools that do this?
I imagine once the clutch has been disengaged once it will have aligned itself. So if I can assemble the gearbox to the engine all is well. If I cannot, I may need a proper alignment tool.
I suppose the crankshaft spigot bearing only functions when the clutch is disengaged.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Nick W on 15 November 2015, 19:46:16
Terry,
you can buy universal tools like Sealey AK710 which will probably do but I've never done an Omega box. You would need to measure the input shaft to check for the correct size adapters. I wouldn't buy this as I can make one on the lathe.


You are making things really difficult if you don't align and secure the clutch before refitting the gearbox.


The spigot bearing functions all the time; its function is to support the end of the input shaft.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 15 November 2015, 19:57:23
Thanks Nick. I am learning all the time. Googling clutch alignment kits, I see the one I bought is for clutches without crankshaft spigot bearings. Oh. There is a dedicated Omega kit for £71, and there are several 'universal' kits for £13 or so, which look like a central shaft and 16 adapters, presumably one end to fit the spigot the other to fit the friction plate.

I imagined thet when the clutch is engaged the gearbox input shaft is locked solid with the crankshaft. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Andy H on 15 November 2015, 20:05:12
You're not wrong - when the clutch is engaged there is no relative movement between the input shaft and the spigot bearing.

I don't own an alignment tool, I either use an old input shaft (if Land Rover) or a piece of dowel (followed by mk1 eyeball plus torch and mirror to check it isn't miles out)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Nick W on 15 November 2015, 20:17:29
Thanks Nick. I am learning all the time. Googling clutch alignment kits, I see the one I bought is for clutches without crankshaft spigot bearings. Oh. There is a dedicated Omega kit for £71, and there are several 'universal' kits for £13 or so, which look like a central shaft and 16 adapters, presumably one end to fit the spigot the other to fit the friction plate.


I think you'll find that dedicated Omega tool is  the name of the company that makes it! The cheaper sort you mentioned is what you want, but measure your input shaft so you know it has the right sizes
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: robson on 16 November 2015, 16:46:06
I have always used a wooden dowel and electrical tape without any problem.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 16 November 2015, 20:32:48
Having failed to attach the gearbox to the engine in 2 days, I accept that I must precisely align the friction plate with the crankshaft spigot bearing centre, something I failed to do with my LASER universal  tool. The gearbox input shaft tip appears to be 15nmm in diameter, and the splines 25mm outside diameter. I see many kits advertised on e-bay, amazon and google, but struggle to select the right one. Can anyone suggest the right tool?
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 16 November 2015, 20:49:17
I did check that the friction plate nfits on the gearbox input shaft spline - it does, and is quite a snug fit.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Andy B on 16 November 2015, 20:52:26
I have to say that the few clutches I've ever done have only ever been lined up using rack o'th'eye  ;)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: flyer 0712 on 16 November 2015, 22:37:45
Terry..have a look at ....jack sealey...part number    VS010....clutch tool....would that be any good to do it..... :-\
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: T.m.f on 16 November 2015, 22:56:46
When i changed my clutch in the frontera i used some some 22mm copper pipe and some insulating tape,lined up perfect and engine fitted straight away on to gearbox. :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 17 November 2015, 08:02:22
Terry..have a look at ....jack sealey...part number    VS010....clutch tool....would that be any good to do it..... :-\
Sadly, no. That is like the tool I have, it aligns the friction plate with the pressure plate, but not the friction plate with the spigot bearing. In the small print it will say 'not for use with engines with spigot bearings'.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 November 2015, 08:42:36
I have to say that the few clutches I've ever done have only ever been lined up using rack o'th'eye  ;)

Snap, and its easy to do on the Omega as you can get your head nicely in alignment.

A few notes, do remember that the engine will be slanted slightly without the gearbox attached (its heavy at the flywheel end) so match the box to the engine inclination.

I also have one of these kits:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17pcs-Clutch-Aligning-Professional-Car-Van-Garage-Clutch-Alignment-Tool-Set-/261730935190?hash=item3cf0612196:g:s9MAAOSw9r1V9eku

Which works well.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 17 November 2015, 08:43:40
I see 3 varieties of alignment tools on the web. One, like I have aligns friction plate with pressure plate, no good. No. 2 is a box of 17 bits, a holding rod and an assortment of sleeves to fit to it; might do, if the 2 vital bits are there. No. 3 is a shaft with tapered handle centre, and again some sleeves. Again, few list sizes on the web.

I see Haynes says it can be done with a screwdriver thrust through the friction plate into the spigot bearing with tape wrapped around the shaft to fill out the spline hole in the FP. Lots of scope here for improvisation. Thanks for suggestions chaps.

If ID of spigot bearing is really 15mm I have lots of copper pipe like that . .

Grubbing around in my plumbing drawer, I have found a 15mm to 22mm  copper adapter that slips smoothly into the centre of the splines. I think I have my alignment tool.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 November 2015, 09:09:58
The kit I have has a selection of fittings that screw to the end of the alignment tool and fit inside the spigot bearing, there is then a second piece that slides onto the shaft of the alignment tool which sits inside the friction pate splines.  :y

There are suitable bits for the Omega setup in the kit
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 17 November 2015, 13:30:44
The kit I have has a selection of fittings that screw to the end of the alignment tool and fit inside the spigot bearing, there is then a second piece that slides onto the shaft of the alignment tool which sits inside the friction pate splines.  :y

There are suitable bits for the Omega setup in the kit
Which kit is that? Can you see it on the web?
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 17 November 2015, 13:44:04
Have you confirmed that you have the correct clutch? Either side by side with the old one or on the input shaft...

Also, any lip on the flywheel face? If so, the clutch won't sit flush, then the pressure plate won't bolt up true, and the whole think will jam solid.

Everything off, find a suitable socket to fit the hole on the end of the crank. Offer clutch up, position approximately central, but certainly within the recess of the flywheel. Then locate pressure plate on its dowels and get the bolts started...

Insert socket with long extension and you should be able to tweak the clutch plate as required.

Once satisfied it's central, nip up the pressure plate bolts in an even fashion, quick double check of the clutch plate position and torque the bolts up.

Make sure the box is in gear and offer it up, rocking the output shaft until it catches, the shove the box home onto its dowels and get the rear mounting bolts started.

Have a well earned cuppa and get the rest bolted up :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 November 2015, 13:59:31
The kit I have has a selection of fittings that screw to the end of the alignment tool and fit inside the spigot bearing, there is then a second piece that slides onto the shaft of the alignment tool which sits inside the friction pate splines.  :y

There are suitable bits for the Omega setup in the kit
Which kit is that? Can you see it on the web?

Is this one I linked to earlier

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17pcs-Clutch-Aligning-Professional-Car-Van-Garage-Clutch-Alignment-Tool-Set-/261730935190?hash=item3cf0612196:g:s9MAAOSw9r1V9eku

 :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: flyer 0712 on 17 November 2015, 15:30:45
If you have tried all types pf alignment tools then as suggested i would make sure that you have the correct clutch by comparing it to the new one and making sure they are identical...other than that as long as you make sure the box is straight inline when offering it up and give the box a good old wiggle / rotate by rights it should go in... :-\
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: ronnyd on 17 November 2015, 15:41:30
The kit I have has a selection of fittings that screw to the end of the alignment tool and fit inside the spigot bearing, there is then a second piece that slides onto the shaft of the alignment tool which sits inside the friction pate splines.  :y

There are suitable bits for the Omega setup in the kit
Which kit is that? Can you see it on the web?

Is this one I linked to earlier

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17pcs-Clutch-Aligning-Professional-Car-Van-Garage-Clutch-Alignment-Tool-Set-/261730935190?hash=item3cf0612196:g:s9MAAOSw9r1V9eku

 :y

It sure is :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: davieboy0312 on 17 November 2015, 21:38:22
Fitted my clutch last week and as AL says I used the 13mm deep socket on a extension. Found the spline and the shaft stuck and wouldn't slide together. I put it in gear and turned the flange on final drive side. Slid home no probs after that
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 18 November 2015, 17:28:28
Thanks to all for advice and encouragement. I don't know what is wrong with me, I spent the weekend failing to attach gearbox to engine, like men have been doing for over a hundred years. May have been mislignment of friction plate with spigot bearing, may have been misalignment g'b to engine. Monday I lugged car out of garage and parked it outside in the rain while I mended other cars. I shall try again next week, with Marks' alignment kit and some stud to assist me.

Next weekend is listed as family birthday bonanza, all ranks (and Omegas) will be home to celebrate 3 birthdays, so no work on cars then. Big birthday for me was last Sunday when grandson Tom was one.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 26 November 2015, 08:34:05
Reassembling the gear linkage. On strip down I found an orange washer below the plate and above the link pin (see pic). It seems to have no function there. Should it be above the plate?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2wwfq9t7f84ecod/orange%20washer%2050%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2wwfq9t7f84ecod/orange%20washer%2050%25.jpg?dl=0)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 26 November 2015, 08:43:36
Possibly part of the support bearing in the lever mounting :-\

How was the gear change before? Any horrific slop?
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 26 November 2015, 08:56:07
Gear change was fine before dismantling.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 26 November 2015, 13:53:39
On the pics I took when I changed the clutch on my 3.2 January 2014 the orange washer was above the plate. It makes more sense there, that's where I shall put it. I conclude this car has already had one new clutch.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 26 November 2015, 14:25:59
I always leave that plate attached to the car...
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Andy H on 26 November 2015, 18:53:48
I always leave that plate attached to the car...
I didn't leave it attached the first time, I think I might have followed the instructions in the book of lies Haynes manual  ::)

I didn't make that mistake the second time  ;)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 26 November 2015, 22:07:47
I always leave that plate attached to the car...
I didn't leave it attached the first time, I think I might have followed the instructions in the book of lies Haynes manual  ::)

I didn't make that mistake the second time  ;)
Obviously you have to unbolt the front end from the box and rasise it up and forward so that it sits just ontop of the box body... failing to do this results in alot of cursing when it dawns on you that it's the reason the box won't pull free :-X

Not that I have ever done it of course ::)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: sjc on 27 November 2015, 08:46:26
On the pics I took when I changed the clutch on my 3.2 January 2014 the orange washer was above the plate. It makes more sense there, that's where I shall put it. I conclude this car has already had one new clutch.

Yeah, looking at the pic in EPC, it goes between the base of the gear lever housing and the support plate - so your photo has it in the correct place.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 27 November 2015, 10:33:08
I have a new problem. I cannot engage the front 2 bolts of 4 that should attach the plate to the gear lever housing. In the pic attached 3 are clearly visible. The rear 2 are engaged, but the front 2 just shove up and engage in nothing. I presumed a captive thread would await them; not so. Coming from above, I have removed the gear lever leather surround, but find beneath it a rubber gaiter I cannot remove. Please advise best course of action.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9iuwif005vaytrk/Gleverbolts50%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9iuwif005vaytrk/Gleverbolts50%25.jpg?dl=0)

Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: robson on 27 November 2015, 10:46:27
looking back over this post you did not say if and how you got the gearbox back into  place,  information on which tools you used might be of help to others with similar problem.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Andy H on 27 November 2015, 10:50:22
My recollection is that there is a big square plastic lump that surrounds the gear stick with a bolt hole in each corner. Once you take the bolts out it is free to float off inside the car - only restrained by the gaiter. Another reason not to do it the way Haynes says ::)

I could be wrong though because it is at least 10 years since I dropped an Omega gearbox :-\
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 November 2015, 13:03:06
Cannot see the pic, but why on earth did you remove the gear lever ???

It sounds like you have made a strsightforward, if heavy, 23 bolt job into utter chaos :-\

Apologies if that comes across as rude and unhelpful, but at this point I have nothing else to offer :-[
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 November 2015, 13:06:43
My recollection is that there is a big square plastic lump that surrounds the gear stick with a bolt hole in each corner. Once you take the bolts out it is free to float off inside the car - only restrained by the gaiter. Another reason not to do it the way Haynes says ::)

I could be wrong though because it is at least 10 years since I dropped an Omega gearbox :-\
So that's going to be front seats, centre console and carpets out then :o
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 27 November 2015, 13:19:55
looking back over this post you did not say if and how you got the gearbox back into  place,  information on which tools you used might be of help to others with similar problem.
(quote) Good point; all these jobs involve tricks, learned by experience. I have a lot to learn.
I bought the alignment tool recommended, and aligned friction plate with spigot bearing. I screwed three 75mm long studs into threads in block, then pushed gearbox on jack onto the studs. It rolled all the way in until I could insert the 2 bolts which screw into the grearbox. These screwed up easily. pulling GB onto crankcase. I then inserted 4 more bolts, then inserted the rear mounting bolts into car body.

I have a pit, and I used it, but it was a mixed blessing on this job because of need to extract GB and return it under the car. Technique now is handbrake on, front o/s wheel chocked, jack up rear n/s corner, support car, then manoeuvre jack and GB under car, I then slither into pit and wife lowers car onto wheels. I then attach GB to engine, and summon wife who releases handbrake.After a cuppa, I replaced all bolts and torqued up.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 November 2015, 13:26:05
At least the box is back it :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 27 November 2015, 13:30:02
Cannot see the pic, but why on earth did you remove the gear lever ???

It sounds like you have made a strsightforward, if heavy, 23 bolt job into utter chaos :-\

Apologies if that comes across as rude and unhelpful, but at this point I have nothing else to offer :-[
Sorry you can't see the pic, it opens for me when I click it.
I did not remove the gear lever, I raised it a bit to insert the washer above the plate..
I don't thnk the block is floarting about restarined only by the gaiter, because the rear bolts are in, its just the front bolts that are not engaging. I imagined that the block had threads at each corner, and that if 2 engaged they all would. Now I wonder if there are nuts involved.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 November 2015, 13:44:22
No need to apologise, summat about dropbox that my tablet doesn't agree with I suspect ::)

Will have ready access and time on Tuesday to have a good look/take pics... I have never paid the inside fixings of the gearlever that much attention tbh, so not currently much help :-\
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Andy H on 27 November 2015, 14:36:00
My recollection is that there is a big square plastic lump that surrounds the gear stick with a bolt hole in each corner. Once you take the bolts out it is free to float off inside the car - only restrained by the gaiter. Another reason not to do it the way Haynes says ::)

I could be wrong though because it is at least 10 years since I dropped an Omega gearbox :-\
So that's going to be front seats, centre console and carpets out then :o
It isn't as bad as that, it can't go far because the gear stick goes  through the middle of it.
What you need now is a spare hand inside the car to push down on it while you try  get the bolts in  :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: robson on 27 November 2015, 14:59:07
you need your wife again its good you are on speaking terms otherwise she might have left you under the car until you were thin enough to crawl out.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: sjc on 27 November 2015, 15:54:22
There are no nuts as such - the bolts go into a pair of flat bars that have a threaded hole at each end.  By removing the 4 bolts that hold the gear lever mounting onto the support panel, you will have allowed these 2 flat bars to move about (#19 on the diagram below), sounds like you've been unlucky and one has moved too far to be able to catch it with the bolt.

2 ways to fix this...
1) reach your hand to the top of the mounting block (#18 on the diagram) and feel for the loose bar and return it to its correct place - perhaps feel around the good side first so you can get the idea of what it is and where it goes
2) from above, drill out the pop rivets that hold the gear lever gaiter onto the transmission tunnel, you will then be able to see clearly where the errant part is

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g373/sjcrossan/Gear%20Lever%20Housing.jpg)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: sjc on 27 November 2015, 16:08:51
I can post a pic of the top of the mounting if it helps, but I'm pretty sure you'll find the one that's moved because there's not exactly a lot of places it can go  ;)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 28 November 2015, 00:20:24
Thanks, sjc. I imagined something like that, and it explains why the rear 2 bolts engage while the front 2 do not. As you say, it cannot be far away. I shall ponder how best to relocate it. Al's 'seats out carpets out central console out' seems a bit extreme just to save a 15 year old gaiter from damage. I had in mind cutting it with a Stanley knife, and repairing it afterwards.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 November 2015, 00:36:28
Depends where the offending part has escaped to ::)

That said, sounds like it won't have gotten far :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 28 November 2015, 07:21:04
Now I appreciate your first suggestion, sjc. You are saying that, working from below, I raise the gear lever, put my hand through the hole and feel around for the missing plate, then replace it in it's slot. I am not sure my hand is that small, but, good suggestion. In the cool light of morning I appreciate that seats  out carpets out console out is not impossible, I have done all these tasks on Senators and they were not too bad, just boring; I imagine the Omega is similar. I wonder if console alone might suffice.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: sjc on 28 November 2015, 09:10:06
I think if you unbolt the rear of the support plate, it will come down far enough for you to get your hand in to the top of the mounting block.

If that doesn't work and you need to go in from above and intend to cut the gaiter (i.e. you don't have a rivet gun) then you only need to lift up the outer leather gaiter to have reasonable access to the lower rubber one.  You could then feel where the mounting block is by squeezing the gaiter so that you can make a small cut in the correct area and get a finger in to relocate the little bar.

If you decide to drill out the rivets for the lower gaiter securing plate, it is just a centre console out job, def not seats and carpets!
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: sjc on 28 November 2015, 09:14:06
BTW, I'm pretty sure the bar with the threaded holes will still be on the top of the mounting block, just not in it's correct place, probably fallen in towards the gear lever itself.  As I say, if you can get your hand in to feel around the top of the block on the good side, you'll get an idea what part you're looking for and where it needs to go on the other side.

Don't remove the 2 bolts you've managed to get in so far!  ;D
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 28 November 2015, 09:52:21
Leaving the screws in place means leaving the plate in place. I'm not sure my hand is that flexible.                               
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 November 2015, 10:01:53
Seats and carpets only because I had visions of things disappearing down the side of the tunnel ;)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 29 November 2015, 13:48:46
No need to cut the gaiter, or drill out rivets, the gaiter peels off its surround, and reveals all. Pics follow of the elusive curved twin nut piece, and the base of the gear lever. Nut piece was lying within the plastic base, as sjc predicted.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9j8nwh05nz4bh5n/GEARlevCLIP50%25jpg.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9j8nwh05nz4bh5n/GEARlevCLIP50%25jpg.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4ms8uf4c3suz5q/gearLEVERbase50%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4ms8uf4c3suz5q/gearLEVERbase50%25.jpg?dl=0)
Would someone please tell me how to make my pics appear without the need to click on a link.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 29 November 2015, 14:00:08
I can see both of those... Which makes no sense to me :-\

Tunnie did a guide for posting pics, in the FAQ iirc
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 29 November 2015, 21:54:05
It occurs to me that it should be easy to change a gear lever, if one has a tatty one and a spare better one. I have never kept one on scrapping a car, but I will next time. Are all Omega manual gear levers the same?
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 29 November 2015, 22:05:41
It occurs to me that it should be easy to change a gear lever, if one has a tatty one and a spare better one. I have never kept one on scrapping a car, but I will next time. Are all Omega manual gear levers the same?
Some boxes might have reverse in the opposite corner, but suspect tbe lever itself is a component common to all :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 29 November 2015, 22:32:49
The reverse prevention device can be seen in my second picture, and would only work on a right hand reverse movement. However all the Omegas I have ever owned were RH reverse.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 30 November 2015, 04:41:00
I only mention it as Irmscher used to list both for the Omega :y

Odd one out might well be the manual 2.5td/i...
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 30 November 2015, 05:31:07
Quite an ingenious piece of kit, the  floor mounted remote control gear change. Gear changes used to have long levers going forward straight into the top of the gearbox. I learned to drive in 1956 on an Austin A40 Somerst, with a steering column change and bench front seat. My Austin Mini (1960) had a long lever gear change, and I bought a kit to convert it to floor mounted remote control, with rods and sliders. It worked OK as installed, but was exposed under the car and full of metal to metal joints and sliders, rattled all the time and got stiff as mud caked the external parts. I soon removed it and replaced the original 'magic wand' lever.
Nowadays they are well evolved, and using plastics work well for the life of the car without maintenance and are taken for granted.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Mr Gav on 30 November 2015, 17:54:50
Would someone please tell me how to make my pics appear without the need to click on a link.

You need to copy the direct link address of the photo, then click on the `insert image` link above the first smiley on the left then paste the link address between the two image links.


I don`t know about dropbox but photobucket has a one click direct link for photo`s which makes it easy for posting pics.

Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 01 December 2015, 22:38:23
Thanks Mr Gav. That's more or less what I do, but that leaves the reader having to click on the address to see the pic.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Broomies Mate on 01 December 2015, 22:41:10
Thanks Mr Gav. That's more or less what I do, but that leaves the reader having to click on the address to see the pic.

Not if done correctly.


[ img ]   web address here   [ /img ]


^^  That's how it should look (without the spaces).
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Broomies Mate on 01 December 2015, 22:46:56
Example: 


Just the URL (address) pasted into the window produces this;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9j8nwh05nz4bh5n/GEARlevCLIP50%25jpg.jpg?dl=0

If you put the [ img ] tags around it (minus the spaces)

(https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AAC6z4IIGO2SnPy_HRryik5RgBVu0u5rK35-DRS03sl06w/12/130003580/jpeg/32x32/3/1449025200/0/2/GEARlevCLIP50%25jpg.jpg/EK-khWQYqQMgASgB/sAtwe0RGriW9GuBk-2JaDTd6Ve_BU3cc5RjNPVuNavk?size_mode=3&size=1600x1200)

You may want to resize your images to a more screen friendly size though.  Dropbox and PhotoBucket will show you a resolution happy preview, but linking directly to the image will show it in full-size.  Shame the Forum Software doesn't have the Auto-Resize plug-in installed.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 02 December 2015, 07:49:41
That's similar to what I did, but substituting img with irl. I'll try that. Here is a pic of how I bleed my clutch by gravity, with funnel and hose full of brake fluid attached to bleed nipple and hung on a roof beam,
[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0[img]

Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 02 December 2015, 07:52:39
That's similar to what I did, but substituting img with irl. I'll try that. Here is a pic of how I bleed my clutch by gravity, with funnel and hose full of brake fluid attached to bleed nipple and hung on a roof beam,
[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0[img]
That did not work.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Mr Gav on 02 December 2015, 07:56:21
That's because the last img tag was  [ img ]   and not   [ /img ]    :y (without the spaces)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 02 December 2015, 09:48:31
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0)
Try again.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 02 December 2015, 09:51:42
That one vanished. I'll try again.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: terry paget on 02 December 2015, 09:58:05
Now the whole pic instruction disappears, ending the line with [/img].  Using the original format I get this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0)
which I expect to wrok after a fashion. Replacing url with img this is the result.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0)
Perhaps dropbox does not recognise it.
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: 05omegav6 on 02 December 2015, 10:00:49
Now the whole pic instruction disappears, ending the line with [/img].  Using the original format I get this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0)
which I expect to wrok after a fashion. Replacing url with img this is the result.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0)
Perhaps dropbox does not recognise it.
Possibly... certainly that is how you would post a photobucket link :y
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Entwood on 02 December 2015, 11:05:06
Drop box is different to other storage sites ...

Place the photo in your drop box public folder

once there RIGHT click the photo and choose "copy public link" then paste this into your post ... you will get something like ..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/IMAG19-2.jpg

then place THAT between the [ img] [ /img] (without the spaces)

and you get

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/IMAG19-2.jpg)

HTH  :)


(edit .. old piccie .. that van has long gone .. and so have the bikes ... and the hedge !!)  :)
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: Broomies Mate on 02 December 2015, 11:22:51
Now the whole pic instruction disappears, ending the line with [/img].  Using the original format I get this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0)
which I expect to wrok after a fashion. Replacing url with img this is the result.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn4scwtspt4lsgo/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg?dl=0)
Perhaps dropbox does not recognise it.

You mean, like this;

(https://photos-6.dropbox.com/t/2/AABzUihlHvYUbvqW_0bW8dDxbblquGFX3ovr6YXKzxJScQ/12/130003580/jpeg/1024x768/3/1449072000/0/2/BLEEDINGclutch50%25.jpg/EK-khWQYqwMgASgB/0ZVxkPfaC1QL5KMz0DOaXviA3sASdPwdHCsnhJUsvFk?size_mode=3&size=1024x768)

 :D
Title: Re: Strugging to attach gearbox to engine
Post by: robson on 02 December 2015, 15:38:16
shame the caravans gone it looks very nice. Cant wait to get mine on the road again we have given up winter trips.