Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STEMO on 24 November 2015, 13:02:48
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Turkish planes have shot down a Russian fighter jet. The Russians do like to play chicken, don't they? ::)
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They've been doing this to Turkey and most NATO counties for over 50 years.
Turkey has asked Putin to play nicely.
They have told him in undiplomatic terms to back off too but Vlad keeps taking the piss ::)
Now they know what happens when you push Turkey too far as the Greek air force can testify too.
This is going to go 1 of 2 ways imo ...........
Either Vlad will keep bombing the enemies of Asad close the Turkish border but this time employing those rather tasty Su30 mki's as escorts to his strike aircraft OR the yanks with have a quite work in the shell like ears of both counties and try to calm it down.
My money of the first one :(
Imo, this could get out of hand very quickly :(
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Lots of cheap holidays next year then ::)
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I don't think it will get out of hand. No matter how big and strong you are, taking on Turkey is no small matter, esp. as it's a member of NATO.
Lots of strong diplomatic language, a load of preposterous rhetoric from the BBC........
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I don't think it will get out of hand. No matter how big and strong you are, taking on Turkey is no small matter, esp. as it's a member of NATO.
Lots of strong diplomatic language, a load of preposterous rhetoric from the BBC........
Too true that ;D ;D ;D
If Vlad does back down, it will be a first for him :-\
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Lots of cheap holidays next year then ::)
Too right ;D ;D
As it happens, I know of this fantastic steak house in Marmaris ............. :D :D
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Lots of cheap holidays next year then ::)
It could get to the stage of only the foolhardy travel to Muslim countries for holidays. Might make a rivival of car touring holidays on the near continent?
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Lots of cheap holidays next year then ::)
It could get to the stage of only the foolhardy travel to Muslim countries for holidays. Might make a rivival of car touring holidays on the near continent?
Indeed. Actually, I know this great place in Andalucia... ::)
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Lots of cheap holidays next year then ::)
It could get to the stage of only the foolhardy travel to Muslim countries for holidays. Might make a rivival of car touring holidays on the near continent?
I think we're probably there already to be honest, but people will still go if it's cheap! ::)
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Let me get this right.Turkey start the ball rolling by claiming their jets have brought down a Russian jet for being in their airspace and say they have evidence to prove it.Russia says its jet was never in Turkish airspace and was brought down 4km inside Syria and they have evidence to prove it and that this is akin to being stabbed in the back by the Turkish.Meanwhile Syrian rebels they brought down the Russian jet using ground launched stuff and that they also shot dead the aircrew as they came down on their parachutes.Russia then say that their aircraft was indeed brought down by ground fire and was in fact 1km inside Syria and they have evidence to prove it,and that this is akin to being stabbed in the back by the Turkish. :-\ :-\.So clear as mud then. ???
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Now I'm no military tactician, but aren't we all on the same side well sort of. But then aren't the Turkish buying oil from the nasty Muslim boy's, and Turkey is a sort of Muslim country, but then the Turkey's don't like the Kurdish, who are on the good side, now I'm confused.
What about friendly fire :o
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Turkish planes have shot down a Russian fighter jet. The Russians do like to play chicken, don't they? ::)
If you look at the radar plot I think the best you can say is it strayed over a tiny but if Turkey and was actually leaving their airspace when destroyed!
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And if you stray into Russia with your military plane they wouldn't mind?
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And if you stray into Russia with your military plane they wouldn't mind?
What he said ^ ;D
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They would mind I am sure. Does that justify shooting the plane down, shooting the pilots dead while on parachute and attacking a rescue helicopter? (The later 2 by the Rebels supported by Turkey) I'm not convinced yet, but more detail will surface I'm sure.
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They would mind I am sure. Does that justify shooting the plane down, shooting the pilots dead while on parachute and attacking a rescue helicopter? (The later 2 by the Rebels supported by Turkey) I'm not convinced yet, but more detail will surface I'm sure.
Of course not. Then again, we're not just talking about a war zone, here. >:(
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Having now seen the map and the flight path of the Su24's, this is quite simply imho a message to the Russians.
Putin now knows that if he pissed off the Turks, they will hit back and screw the consequences.
Putin is a bully and a piggin very clever one at that.
I've said before on other threads that he has the west by the balls and that stands imo.
In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he knew that sooner or later, this would happen >:(
Now it has happened, you can be sure that he will turn it around to his advantage in some way ;)
How about using it to destabilise NATO ?
Maybe pop over the border and help himself to a mile or two of Turkish land ?
Turkey spits its dummy out and invokes article 5 and waits for the rest of NATO to run to his assistance.
The yanks say no thanks and run away.
Everybody else sit around the table and ask the UN to write a strongly worded letter of protest ::)
You can bet your life that after what those vile scum did to the aircrew of that Su24, vlad WILL find a way to hurt the Turks, by hook or crook :(
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Oooooh. Rods2 to this discussion, its getting anti-Putin. ::)
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Looks like the next few days will determine if this ends up as a minor disagreement at the bar, or if we go to a full-on rumble in the jungle.
I wonder how long before us 'formers' are remobilised? ::)
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Putin has been testing NATO borders for some time now. Subs off of Stockholm and Scotland, regular bomber flights skirting UK and Norwegian air spaces and various incidents in the Baltics including the kidnapping of a Estonian official at the border with Russia. So maybe this was a NATO plot to send Putin a message. ::) I bet that this kind of scenario has been extensively discussed at the highest levels for some time now. ;)
It'll really kick off if Turkey and Russia get into a tit for tat spat and Turkey closes the Bosphorus to Russian shipping! Putin and Turkeys President Erdogan are probably similar characters who like to be seen as macho hard men who don't back down. :(
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It is alleged that one of the Rusky airmen (a flight engineer) has been rescued from Syria and is now back in Russia.
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Putin has been testing NATO borders for some time now. Subs off of Stockholm and Scotland, regular bomber flights skirting UK and Norwegian air spaces and various incidents in the Baltics including the kidnapping of a Estonian official at the border with Russia. So maybe this was a NATO plot to send Putin a message. ::) I bet that this kind of scenario has been extensively discussed at the highest levels for some time now. ;)
It'll really kick off if Turkey and Russia get into a tit for tat spat and Turkey closes the Bosphorus to Russian shipping! Putin and Turkeys President Erdogan are probably similar characters who like to be seen as macho hard men who don't back down. :(
The Bosphorus is a free international waterway covered by The Montreaux Convention, and Turkey preventing its use by anyone - military or civil - would be illegal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits
IMHO What's likely to happen now is that Russia will publically say that they didn't enter Turkish airspace, but privately accept there may have been a "navigational error". However, they'll insist the shoot-down was unwaranted. Turkey will say publically that they were simply protecting their soverign airspace after repeated infringments and warnings, but privately accept they acted a harshly on this occasion.
Moving forward, Russia are likely to give the Turkish border a bit more respect whilst they pummel the sh1t out of the Turkish backed rebels in that area in revenge for the killing of their pilot. Turkey will monitor it all from their side of the border, but providing Russian aircraft don't encroach into their airspace they won't do anything. If encroachment does happen, then providing it's not a regular/repeated occurrence, Turkey is likely to illuminate the targets with fire control radars to put the willies up the Russian pilots. Then lots of diplomatic whinging about it.
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Thanks, Rods :y
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Putin has been testing NATO borders for some time now. Subs off of Stockholm and Scotland, regular bomber flights skirting UK and Norwegian air spaces and various incidents in the Baltics including the kidnapping of a Estonian official at the border with Russia. So maybe this was a NATO plot to send Putin a message. ::) I bet that this kind of scenario has been extensively discussed at the highest levels for some time now. ;)
It'll really kick off if Turkey and Russia get into a tit for tat spat and Turkey closes the Bosphorus to Russian shipping! Putin and Turkeys President Erdogan are probably similar characters who like to be seen as macho hard men who don't back down. :(
The Bosphorus is a free international waterway covered by The Montreaux Convention, and Turkey preventing its use by anyone - military or civil - would be illegal
Exactly why it would all kick off big time if Turkey imposed a blockade and who knows, they might! Erdogan is probably a bit of a loose cannon.... :-\
It's a huge piece of speculation on my part though.... ;D
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Putin has been testing NATO borders for some time now. Subs off of Stockholm and Scotland, regular bomber flights skirting UK and Norwegian air spaces and various incidents in the Baltics including the kidnapping of a Estonian official at the border with Russia. So maybe this was a NATO plot to send Putin a message. ::) I bet that this kind of scenario has been extensively discussed at the highest levels for some time now. ;)
It'll really kick off if Turkey and Russia get into a tit for tat spat and Turkey closes the Bosphorus to Russian shipping! Putin and Turkeys President Erdogan are probably similar characters who like to be seen as macho hard men who don't back down. :(
The Bosphorus is a free international waterway covered by The Montreaux Convention, and Turkey preventing its use by anyone - military or civil - would be illegal
Exactly why it would all kick off big time if Turkey imposed a blockade and who knows, they might! Erdogan is probably a bit of a loose cannon.... :-\
It's a huge piece of speculation on my part though.... ;D
::) ::) ;D
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Putin has been testing NATO borders for some time now. Subs off of Stockholm and Scotland, regular bomber flights skirting UK and Norwegian air spaces and various incidents in the Baltics including the kidnapping of a Estonian official at the border with Russia. So maybe this was a NATO plot to send Putin a message. ::) I bet that this kind of scenario has been extensively discussed at the highest levels for some time now. ;)
It'll really kick off if Turkey and Russia get into a tit for tat spat and Turkey closes the Bosphorus to Russian shipping! Putin and Turkeys President Erdogan are probably similar characters who like to be seen as macho hard men who don't back down. :(
The Bosphorus is a free international waterway covered by The Montreaux Convention, and Turkey preventing its use by anyone - military or civil - would be illegal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits
IMHO What's likely to happen now is that Russia will publically say that they didn't enter Turkish airspace, but privately accept there may have been a "navigational error". However, they'll insist the shoot-down was unwaranted. Turkey will say publically that they were simply protecting their soverign airspace after repeated infringments and warnings, but privately accept they acted a harshly on this occasion.
Moving forward, Russia are likely to give the Turkish border a bit more respect whilst they pummel the sh1t out of the Turkish backed rebels in that area in revenge for the killing of their pilot. Turkey will monitor it all from their side of the border, but providing Russian aircraft don't encroach into their airspace they won't do anything. If encroachment does happen, then providing it's not a regular/repeated occurrence, Turkey is likely to illuminate the targets with fire control radars to put the willies up the Russian pilots. Then lots of diplomatic whinging about it.
So is shooting down one of your allies over foreign airspace ;) ;)
Even if that country has been pissing you off for a while by taking the piss over your airspace ;)
The Turks have been at war with the Kurds for donkeys years.
The world knows that the Kurds deserve and are fully entitled to a large chunk of Turkey but we all look the other way because we need Turkey as a access point into the south of Russia (if needed god forbid :() and as a buffer between the mad mullah's of the middle east.
Erdogan will do what the hell he wants to keep his area of influence under control and himself in power ;)
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Illegal? Against the law? Does this really come into consideration when you're trying to kill foreign nationals? Or increase the size of your country....just a little bit?
Did mad, bad Vlad think it might be slighly illegal to annex Crimea or invade Ukraine? Nah..... ;D
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Illegal? Against the law? Does this really come into consideration when you're trying to kill foreign nationals? Or increase the size of your country....just a little bit?
Did mad, bad Vlad think it might be slighly illegal to annex Crimea or invade Ukraine? Nah..... ;D
Mad bad Vlad and the Mad Mullah of Turkey democratically elected leader of Turkey don't give a shit full stop as long as they get there own way ;D ;D ;D
Anyway, Crimea didn't belong to Ukraine anyway ::)
Stalin just loaned them it for a while back in the 50's iirc then called the loan back in with a little bit of interest :D :D :D
Right, i've got the afternoon of so i'm off fishing ;D ;D
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Illegal? Against the law? Does this really come into consideration when you're trying to kill foreign nationals? Or increase the size of your country....just a little bit?
Did mad, bad Vlad think it might be slighly illegal to annex Crimea or invade Ukraine? Nah..... ;D
Crimea was his before anyway so not worth losing sleep over ;)
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Illegal? Against the law? Does this really come into consideration when you're trying to kill foreign nationals? Or increase the size of your country....just a little bit?
Did mad, bad Vlad think it might be slighly illegal to annex Crimea or invade Ukraine? Nah..... ;D
Crimea was his before anyway so not worth losing sleep over ;)
Yeah. I think that may have been mentioned 7 hours ago in the previous post. :)
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Didn,t the Ruskies shoot down a passenger plane over Sakalin island some years ago? One Russian casualty seem scant consolation for that.
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Didn,t the Ruskies shoot down a passenger plane over Sakalin island some years ago? One Russian casualty seem scant consolation for that.
Yep, KAL007. But, it was only a Boeing 747 with 269 innocent on-board. A Spy Mission, by Soviet accounts.
As far as I remember, it had deviated off course, though.
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Didn,t the Ruskies shoot down a passenger plane over Sakalin island some years ago? One Russian casualty seem scant consolation for that.
Its happened quite a few times over the last few decades with Ivan.
Wiki / Google is your friend if you can be arsed ;D
One of the first ones iirc was a RAF Lincoln transporter during the Berlin airlift around 1949 :-\
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Didn,t the Ruskies shoot down a passenger plane over Sakalin island some years ago? One Russian casualty seem scant consolation for that.
Mistakes happen everywhere. The US shot down an Iranian Airliner over the Gulf killing all 290 on board : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Thankfully the UK are more careful/luckier. The only thing the RAF have managed to shoot down since the WWII was when 92Sqn Phantom FGR2 XV422 shot down 14Sqn Jaguar GR1 XX963 over Germany in 1982. Thankfully the Jag pilot ejected safely.