Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: deviator on 02 January 2016, 15:40:57
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Apart from the obvious comments.
Seicento 2001 Abarth 1.1 sporting. 8v OHC, MPi setup.
Hello I have an intermittent misfire. My code reader reports p0352.
The problem.....
On initial cold start, it starts on 3 and within a few seconds fires up to 4.
Once warm and the car is restarted, the misfire is pretty much constant. (This makes me think heat related).
What I have tried so far.....
Swap coil packs over - No difference, still get p0352 (even after clearing code). In my mind that takes the coils out of the picture. (There are two coil packs, swapped 1&4 with 2&3)
When misfiring, I've pulled the leads (using insulated gloves), the misfire is from number 2.
Pulled plug 1 and 2, visually checked OK, in fact they look new.
Swapped plug 1 & 2. Still same fault/code.
Visually checked 1 & 2 HT leads.
Swapped lead 1 & 2. Still same fault/code.
What I am now thinking.....
Compression testing all the cylinders.
Injector fault.
Wiring fault.
The fault doesn't match the ECU failure posts I've read.
I bought the car with a suggested injector fault. So I would not be surprised if that is the problem. Searching forums, injectors are suggested, so is the ECU (see above). I've also seen mention of injector cleaner solving the problem.
I just wondered if anyone on here had any better knowledge of these cars?
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Compression test is a good idea.
Single point injection?
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(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/tidla1/fiat_zpshskwkz6e.png)
Looking at the wiring diagram, the feed comes from the system relay (item with relay contacts) via a single wire which then splits to the two coils. Ecu then earths the coils thru pins 1 and 19.
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So is it SPI (single point injection) or MPI (multipoint injection)?
If it is SPI then it is unlikely that an injector fault could cause a misfire on one particular cylinder.
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Have you pulled plugs 3 and 4? If so what did they look like?
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(whiskey in hand)
If i remember rightly, both plugs on the same coil 2&3 fire (wasted spark)
So swaping leads 2&3 at the coil should make no difference to the running, which would help with fault diagnosis /faulty cylinder id. ?
(edit, re read it so youve kinda done that.)
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If 2001, it should be Multi-Point Injection. The OP even states so in the original post.
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Theres a few different "types " for this model ranging from 150 to 230?
being the abarth model might make a difference to the wiring diagram.
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Theres a few different "types " for this model ranging from 150 to 230?
being the abarth model might make a difference to the wiring diagram.
It's a Seicento. It had two engine variants...... one was a small one, the other was smaller.
The Sporting was a 1108cc SPi until MY 2000, then MPi thereafter.
Abarth meant bugger all, except for 'styling'.
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(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/tidla1/fiat%202_zpscfr5p34f.png)
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The only other diagram, very similar but still single point?
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Thanks for the replies, it is definitely multi point injection, no if or buts. I can see 4 injectors.
I'm am aware of the wasted spark. As above I have swapped the 2 coil packs over, A runs 1&4 and B runs 2&3. Fault code still says coil pack B.
The swapping of plugs and HT leads was done between cylinder 1 & 2, hoping that if the plug and or ht lead was at fault, the code would move to coil pack A, but it didn't.
Due to the way the fault appears, I am pretty certain it is electrical. Even when it misfires, I can sometimes stop and start the engine and it may or may not bring all 4 into life.
It's a funny fault and I'm starting to lean towards the low tension leads to the coil packs, unless anyone has any other ideas? From the googling I have done, a faulty ECU isn't intermittent, it either works or not.
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As you have read the code, I'm assuming you have reset the ECU? Just in case there is a weird French thing going on!
As it's sticking with the same cylinder, a compression test may be in order, although unlikely to be an issue - That engine is quite bullet-proof.
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0352 is a coil failure code,coils on that engine are prone to failure at 40-50k miles,sometimes however the coil failing can take out the ECU drivers too which will give the same code,I would replace a coil first and if doesn't work and find out much BBA reman want to check out/fix the ECU.
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As you have read the code, I'm assuming you have reset the ECU? Just in case there is a weird French thing going on!
As it's sticking with the same cylinder, a compression test may be in order, although unlikely to be an issue - That engine is quite bullet-proof.
Yes, read and reset codes all the way through. Compression test is my next, urm, test ::) if this weather ever gives me a break.
0352 is a coil failure code,coils on that engine are prone to failure at 40-50k miles,sometimes however the coil failing can take out the ECU drivers too which will give the same code,I would replace a coil first and if doesn't work and find out much BBA reman want to check out/fix the ECU.
I've read similar things and my coil packs are I believe original and at 39k. So this was my first thought. However I would have expected the code to move to the other coil pack when I swapped the two over. I didn't. I've also read about the frying of the ECU drivers, however this leads to a permanent fault, not a suspected heat related intermittent issue that I currently have.
Thanks for the replies, I appreciate all the help.
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
Shh! My daughter has an 1100cc Seicento that steadily looses water ....... :-X
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
Thanks Mark, I hadn't really considered that. Although the water level is good, the oil is not milky and it doesn't smoke like Dot Cotton. When the weather improves, I'll compression test it.
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
Thanks Mark, I hadn't really considered that. Although the water level is good, the oil is not milky and it doesn't smoke like Dot Cotton. When the weather improves, I'll compression test it.
They usually either fail between cylinders or water jacket to bore, the result is a very small amount of coolant leaked leaking into the bore when they are sat for a period resulting in amiss fire on starting which clears.
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
Shh! My daughter has an 1100cc Seicento that steadily looses water ....... :-X
There a truly crap engine!
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
Shh! My daughter has an 1100cc Seicento that steadily looses water ....... :-X
We couldn't find the cause on the one my sister had. A car with no redeeming features, she would have been better off with a clit!
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I finally got some time for a more extensive poke.
Compression test came back even but quite low. Circa 65psi on all four. I will check if this is norm. This is the first time I've used this compression tester after my last one went AWOL.
I tried the old school trick (suggested by someone else) of a long screwdriver on the injector and my ear on the other side. 1&4 were clear and loud, 2&3 noticeably quieter, if there at all. So with the engine running, I unplugged injector 2, no difference to the engine tone. Reconnected and did the same to injector 3, again no difference in engine tone. I am now suspecting both of these are beginning to fail. How this has manifested its self as a coil pack fault, I still haven't worked out.
My next action is to connect the spare injectors I have to the loom only and have a listen to them, to make sure they work. If so then it's strip down time.
At this point my phone rang, my mate was sat on industrial estate with a glowing brake disc. Deviator breakdown services get called out once again ::) I will update when I make more progress.
Thanks for the ideas.
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I finally got some time for a more extensive poke.
Compression test came back even but quite low. Circa 65psi on all four. I will check if this is norm. This is the first time I've used this compression tester after my last one went AWOL.
I tried the old school trick (suggested by someone else) of a long screwdriver on the injector and my ear on the other side. 1&4 were clear and loud, 2&3 noticeably quieter, if there at all. So with the engine running, I unplugged injector 2, no difference to the engine tone. Reconnected and did the same to injector 3, again no difference in engine tone. I am now suspecting both of these are beginning to fail. How this has manifested its self as a coil pack fault, I still haven't worked out.
My next action is to connect the spare injectors I have to the loom only and have a listen to them, to make sure they work. If so then it's strip down time.
At this point my phone rang, my mate was sat on industrial estate with a glowing brake disc. Deviator breakdown services get called out once again ::) I will update when I make more progress.
Thanks for the ideas.
Often if an ECU detects a misfire on a cylinder due to HT issues it'll shut down injectors on affected cylinders to protect the catalyst from unburnt fuel ingress.
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Often if an ECU detects a misfire on a cylinder due to HT issues it'll shut down injectors on affected cylinders to protect the catalyst from unburnt fuel ingress.
Something I wasn't aware of, thanks! I'm going to connect up my spare injectors to the loom only and hopefully these will click better and give me some reassurance, although maybe not from what you are saying!
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Often if an ECU detects a misfire on a cylinder due to HT issues it'll shut down injectors on affected cylinders to protect the catalyst from unburnt fuel ingress.
Something I wasn't aware of, thanks! I'm going to connect up my spare injectors to the loom only and hopefully these will click better and give me some reassurance, although maybe not from what you are saying!
Have you access to a code reader than can show live data ?,it would help your diagnosis to see what's happening real time
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
Shh! My daughter has an 1100cc Seicento that steadily looses water ....... :-X
There a truly crap engine!
It is not a crap engine - It's very, very good. (for what it is). Easy to work on and extremely reliable.
The Seicento Sporting is a really lively little thing to drive. I wouldn't like to crash one, but in terms of hammering around country lanes and such, it is a belter. Far better than a modern Fiat 500, Ford Ka, Vauxhall Adam etc.
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
Shh! My daughter has an 1100cc Seicento that steadily looses water ....... :-X
There a truly crap engine!
It is not a crap engine - It's very, very good. (for what it is). Easy to work on and extremely reliable.
The Seicento Sporting is a really lively little thing to drive. I wouldn't like to crash one, but in terms of hammering around country lanes and such, it is a belter. Far better than a modern Fiat 500, Ford Ka, Vauxhall Adam etc.
It's easy to work on, but reliable? They're like V6s, I've yet to see one that doesn't have an oil leak which leads to oil starvation and all the nasty things that causes. Oh, and overheated ones are very common.
And the handling? Lift-off oversteer at 30mph? No. Just no. Very, very unpleasant.
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Probably head gasket, all to common on these
Shh! My daughter has an 1100cc Seicento that steadily looses water ....... :-X
There a truly crap engine!
It is not a crap engine - It's very, very good. (for what it is). Easy to work on and extremely reliable.
The Seicento Sporting is a really lively little thing to drive. I wouldn't like to crash one, but in terms of hammering around country lanes and such, it is a belter. Far better than a modern Fiat 500, Ford Ka, Vauxhall Adam etc.
It's easy to work on, but reliable? They're like V6s, I've yet to see one that doesn't have an oil leak which leads to oil starvation and all the nasty things that causes. Oh, and overheated ones are very common.
And the handling? Lift-off oversteer at 30mph? No. Just no. Very, very unpleasant.
We all have different experience - I am yet to see one with an oil leak.
Lift off oversteer at 30mph? Learn to drive ::)
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We all have different experience - I am yet to see one with an oil leak.
Lift off oversteer at 30mph? Learn to drive ::)
I'm a serial Capri owner so correcting it was a natural reaction, but having to do it at low speed in a FWD car after a gentle throttling off approaching a roundabout was an unpleasant surprise. So much so that I had to stop and check the tyre pressures. It does that was my sister's reaction when I returned her car. So have the others I've had the misfortune to drive.
Oil leaks from the cam-cover and head gaskets are normal. And rusty sumps are so common that factors used to keep them in stock.
I've seen several where the engine and gearbox had fallen out.
I managed to adjust the door fit on a hired one by racing another down a beach road. Kate wasn't happy; she had to throw herself against the door to get it open
They are so shit I'd rather have a clit
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My daughter's Seicento has an oily rocker cover and the sump is rusty. Can't say I've experienced oversteer though, but I rarely drive it.
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Have you access to a code reader than can show live data ?,it would help your diagnosis to see what's happening real time
Another good suggestion! Keep them coming. I will have a look, I don't use this code reader very often.
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Sorry for the late update, the early arrival of my son put things back a bit.
Took 2 ECU's, but it's running fine and dandy now.
Thanks for the help!