Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Chopsdad on 25 November 2006, 22:57:54
-
What's wrong with my PC?
Previously signed up with AOL but it wouldn't connect properly and they wanted me to pay BT to check the land line as they suspected a fault. So I packed in first attempt at broadband & stayed on dial up for 6m. Anyway, I got fed up and recently upgraded to Virgin Broadband.
No problems loading drivers, little boxes plugged in all the right places and off we go. Until about 4pm till 8pm daily, then it flags up ' cannot connect to server, checked modem etc'. That's why I sign in so late usually, as I reckon it's all the little kiddies coming home from school and jumping on the internet instead of kicking a football around in the fresh air.
Would my theory hold any water if the land lines are unable to cope with all this extra internet traffic? And more importantly can I do anything about it? :-?
-
Yes, complain to Virgin.....in the first place
Your adsl connects to Virgin......so its them that could have a problem.
Yes it could be extra 'traffic' at this time that is causing you a prob.
As you had probs with AOL as well.....it could well be a BT prob.....so see what Virgin come up with.
Generally the further away you are from your local BT exchange the slower the ADSL connection will be
-
Yes, complain to Virgin.....in the first place
Your adsl connects to Virgin......so its them that could have a problem.
Yes it could be extra 'traffic' at this time that is causing you a prob.
As you had probs with AOL as well.....it could well be a BT prob.....so see what Virgin come up with.
Generally the further away you are from your local BT exchange the slower the ADSL connection will be
Thanks TD I live on a recently built estate on the outskirts of town that's ever expanding - that's why I suspect busy BT line. It's ok right now cos all the teenagers are still in bed :y
-
Yes, complain to Virgin.....in the first place
Your adsl connects to Virgin......so its them that could have a problem.
Yes it could be extra 'traffic' at this time that is causing you a prob.
As you had probs with AOL as well.....it could well be a BT prob.....so see what Virgin come up with.
Generally the further away you are from your local BT exchange the slower the ADSL connection will be
Thanks TD I live on a recently built estate on the outskirts of town that's ever expanding - that's why I suspect busy BT line. It's ok right now cos all the teenagers are still in bed :y
If Virgin blame the BT line as well, then report it as a fault to BT....as BT have enabled ADSL on you phone line, they should be guaranteeing a minimun speed of 1M at all times :y
-
Do not report ADSL fault to BT, they won't accept it. You have to report to ISP, and if necessary ISP will report to Openreach. ISP may want to know if it starts going wrong when the streetlights come on.
-
Yes, complain to Virgin.....in the first place
Your adsl connects to Virgin......so its them that could have a problem.
Yes it could be extra 'traffic' at this time that is causing you a prob.
As you had probs with AOL as well.....it could well be a BT prob.....so see what Virgin come up with.
Generally the further away you are from your local BT exchange the slower the ADSL connection will be
Thanks TD I live on a recently built estate on the outskirts of town that's ever expanding - that's why I suspect busy BT line. It's ok right now cos all the teenagers are still in bed :y
Well it wont be a busy BT line......
Given its a new estate then it should be good quality cable etc.....
What you have to remember with ADSL is that the line quality can vary but, this is minimal with underground cabling (worse on overhead as the tamp varies quite a bit and they are more prone to noise pickup).
The phone line will be terminated in probably a juction box(es) and then an access mux at which point the voice and data will be split. The data will be sent to a BRAS (this does the broadband billing and login etc before forwarding to an edge router), this will most likely belong to Virgin/NTL (who bought Virgin 6 months ago).
What most people overlook is that slow operation is most often an overloaded server or router with a large number of connections......and very rarely the line. What makes it worse is that Ethernet is priority and que based and I wouldn't be surprised if those on a base package are given a lower priority than those on higher packages. When networks get busy, packets (data) gets ditched in priority order......
If you can, login into your modem and take a note of the line attenuation readings when its working and failed....this will give you a clue if its the line/termination kit or BRAS....
As a guide, here is a snap shot of my line status (note, mine are pretty good as my install is designed to optimise it)
| ADSL Link | Downstream | Upstream |
| Connection Speed | 1152 kbps | 288 kbps |
| Line Attenuation | 49 db | 15.5 db |
| Noise Margin | 16 db | 26 db |
-
Given its a new estate then it should be good quality cable etc.....
You're assuming a new E side was laid. Not always the case.... ....in fact frequently not the case now.
-
| ADSL Link | Downstream | Upstream |
| Connection Speed | 1152 kbps | 288 kbps |
| Line Attenuation | 49 db | 15.5 db |
| Noise Margin | 16 db | 26 db |
And for comparison, here are my 2 lines (I am about 3.5km (cable length) from exchange):
2Mb fixed line
System up: 139 days 7 hours 53 minutes
Line up: 138 days 15 hours 39 minutes
Attenuation:
Local: 35.5 dB
Remote: 17 dB
Noise Margin:
Upstream: 24 dB
Downstream: 29.5 dB
Xmit Power Level: 11.93 dBm
MaxDSL line (currently sync'd at 6.1Mbps
System up: 6 days 5 hours 13 minutes
Line up: 0 days 1 hours 29 minutes
Attenuation:
Local: 35.5 dB
Remote: 18 dB
Noise Margin:
Upstream: 17 dB
Downstream: 7.5 dB
Xmit Power Level: 11.93 dBm
-
Do not report ADSL fault to BT, they won't accept it. You have to report to ISP, and if necessary ISP will report to Openreach. ISP may want to know if it starts going wrong when the streetlights come on.
My neighbour had probs with his adsl.....he reported it to BT.....but i think he told them was getting crossed lines on his phone (tho he wasnt!) Dunno what BT did, he said they never came to his house, but within days it was fixed! I assume he did have a line fault and BT fixing that cured his ADSL problem.
Worth also noting if you want faster than 1M download......its worth getting BT to check that this is possible on your phone line first. I upped my speed with my ISP to 2M......when it was still at 1M two weeks later i complained about it to my ISP.....they said they had changed my account to 2M and i should be getting 2M download......after going round in circles for about a week.....it turns out i live too far away from my local exchange for 2M to work :( And thats only about 2 miles as the crow flies!
Going on that if i wanted 8M.....i would have to move next door to the exchange!! ::)
-
Going on that if i wanted 8M.....i would have to move next door to the exchange!! ::)
I am 3.5km (cable length), about 3km via road, and sync at between 6.1Mbps and 6.8Mbps
-
Going on that if i wanted 8M.....i would have to move next door to the exchange!! ::)
I am 3.5km (cable length), about 3km via road, and sync at between 6.1Mbps and 6.8Mbps
Guess it depends how new the cable is..... :-/ You live on a fairly new estate Jaime....my house is over 100 years old and probaby the cable is as well :(
-
Ok. I know as much about computers as I do the internal witchcraft of an engine. Which buttons do I press to obtain the ASDL speed data & why do the streetlights matter? :-?
-
Yes, complain to Virgin.....in the first place
Your adsl connects to Virgin......so its them that could have a problem.
Yes it could be extra 'traffic' at this time that is causing you a prob.
As you had probs with AOL as well.....it could well be a BT prob.....so see what Virgin come up with.
Generally the further away you are from your local BT exchange the slower the ADSL connection will be
Thanks TD I live on a recently built estate on the outskirts of town that's ever expanding - that's why I suspect busy BT line. It's ok right now cos all the teenagers are still in bed :y
If Virgin blame the BT line as well, then report it as a fault to BT....as BT have enabled ADSL on you phone line, they should be guaranteeing a minimun speed of 1M at all times :y
The usual from BT gauranteed is usually 512k only where I live the maximium is 512k and I live about 4miles from the nearest exchange.
-
AHEM.
With cable, in Milton keynes, everyone thought ADSL would work a treat until it was realised the BT put Aluminium cables in instead of Cooper on most of the new estates.
The thing with line noise is that it happens all the time, and the line is always crap, it's doesn't tend to come and go, it's either there or not, and doesn't fluckuate very much....unless the conduit gets flooded or something.. :)
With Intermitant Problems, you will find it can depend on what's actually going on at BT, and whats going on at the ISP, often not a great deal, but here is a good way to test.
With ADSL (Broadband) you have two servers that Authenicate you.
You have a BT one, and an ISP one.
Your username will look something like; blahblah@isp.com
Ok, the simplified Proccess in order then.
Your Modem/Router from your ISP will talk with the BT Authentication Server first (RADIUS normally) and that server will look at your "@isp.com" bit of your username. This then tells the big AS Series ATM Routers at BT to route you traffic to your ISP (Virgin.net)
Then Virgins job is to Identify the "blahblah" bit of your username (Using RADIUS Again).
Only when that is done will you get you IP Address for the Internet, and be allowed to surf.
How does this help you?
Well you can often find out where the problem lies by doing a bit of testing.
Change your Username to BT_User@Startup_Domain.
Password Blank or Password. (Sorry it's a long time since I worked on the Broandband Helpdesk)
You will NOT be able to browse the internet witjh this, but you WILL be able to log in.
If you cannot log in, the problem is with your Line, either at the DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer) not unheard of to have ports just die to be honest (especially in Fujitsu DSLAMS), or the line card at the Exchange, again not that uncommon....
If you can login, this proves that the Line is fine, and the Connection to the BT side of the Network is fine.
Disconnect and change your usename to BT_User@<isp.com>
Password Blank or Password - Virgin may have changed the password, so it might be worth asking them what it is.
If this fails your Problem is with Virgin Internet RADIUS Server, probably over subscribed (by 45% normally, hence those lame arse download limits and DPD kill signals)
I suspect the first one will fail, if you try it while you are having problems.
From what you have said, it seems as though the DSLAM is not handling the load very well, and it may need replacing with a real one....From Cisco... not Fujitsu..!!! :y
Cheers.
Matt
-
What's wrong with my PC?
Previously signed up with AOL but it wouldn't connect properly and they wanted me to pay BT to check the land line as they suspected a fault. So I packed in first attempt at broadband & stayed on dial up for 6m. Anyway, I got fed up and recently upgraded to Virgin Broadband.
No problems loading drivers, little boxes plugged in all the right places and off we go. Until about 4pm till 8pm daily, then it flags up ' cannot connect to server, checked modem etc'. That's why I sign in so late usually, as I reckon it's all the little kiddies coming home from school and jumping on the internet instead of kicking a football around in the fresh air.
Would my theory hold any water if the land lines are unable to cope with all this extra internet traffic? And more importantly can I do anything about it? :-?
Virgin and ADSL in general is a steaming pile of shite. I'm with virgin and my connection speed is ridiculous. I've had faster dial-up!! I'm supposed to be on 8meg and i've never seen my speeds reach anywhere near that. Thing is with ADSL and Virgin is they try to pack as many customers as possible on small crappy, insufficient and old exchanges. This lowers the contention ratio to an unacceptable level meaning your speeds and connection latency suffers massively. Unfortunately, there's bugger all you can do about it, except switch to a decent broadband service like cable (NTL rock on this one). You can join forces with me and boycot virgin or harass their support team, but I doubt that would accomplish much.
-
What's wrong with my PC?
Previously signed up with AOL but it wouldn't connect properly and they wanted me to pay BT to check the land line as they suspected a fault. So I packed in first attempt at broadband & stayed on dial up for 6m. Anyway, I got fed up and recently upgraded to Virgin Broadband.
No problems loading drivers, little boxes plugged in all the right places and off we go. Until about 4pm till 8pm daily, then it flags up ' cannot connect to server, checked modem etc'. That's why I sign in so late usually, as I reckon it's all the little kiddies coming home from school and jumping on the internet instead of kicking a football around in the fresh air.
Would my theory hold any water if the land lines are unable to cope with all this extra internet traffic? And more importantly can I do anything about it? :-?
Virgin and ADSL in general is a steaming pile of shite. I'm with virgin and my connection speed is ridiculous. I've had faster dial-up!! I'm supposed to be on 8meg and i've never seen my speeds reach anywhere near that. Thing is with ADSL and Virgin is they try to pack as many customers as possible on small crappy, insufficient and old exchanges. This lowers the contention ratio to an unacceptable level meaning your speeds and connection latency suffers massively. Unfortunately, there's bugger all you can do about it, except switch to a decent broadband service like cable (NTL rock on this one). You can join forces with me and boycot virgin or harass their support team, but I doubt that would accomplish much.
That would be the Oversubscribing thing I was Talking about then...
It's not the exchanges that are the problem, it's the ISPs Connection to the BT Backbone....The ISP I used to work for had a 32MB Backbone, over Subcribed by 35%, and in every 6 months it cost the a fortune to upgrade it, about 10,000 for 5MB.
It's shocking how they do it, but it's all to scrimp and save costs.
Cheers.
Matt
-
Thats the one, oversubbing. Didn't read your above post hehe.
-
;D
Tis Ok, no Problem...
Way back in the late 70's early 80's BT installed 3 counter rotating ATM Rings that cover the whole of the UK.
These ATM Rings are the Backbone of ADSL as we know it today.
The ATM Rings are huge, both Logically and Physically, they have Massive bandwidth Capabilities Upwards of OC192 or OC768 which if I remember corrrect is 10GBPS, and 40GBPS Respectivly, and all ADSL Traffic travels across these rings at some point.
These rings are fine, it's the ISPs measly tight fisted, backbone to them with is the butt ache, and will cause you the most problems.
When BT first brought out the idea of ADSL, (the 'A' from ADSL takes it's meaning from the A of ATM by the way, it's Asyncronous, not Advanced, as some PC world Employees keep telling people!!) it was thought that many many people will go the 20-1 contention ratio, but alas most ISP's (in there tight fisted way) have pushed folks down the 50-1.
BT had over built it's service, and so a 20-1 contention service (Like Mine) will often mean you are up with an extra 1-2MBPS, on the 50-1 contention folks at the same speed, it really is worth the extra dosh if you can afford it and use it.
Infact IIRC, BT also set 1-1 contention aside, along with SDSL, but again ISPs had the way.. damn them!!! >:(
Cheers.
Matt
-
Going on that if i wanted 8M.....i would have to move next door to the exchange!! ::)
I am 3.5km (cable length), about 3km via road, and sync at between 6.1Mbps and 6.8Mbps
Guess it depends how new the cable is..... :-/ You live on a fairly new estate Jaime....my house is over 100 years old and probaby the cable is as well :(
The last 200m of cable is new, the e-side is all old crap around here. The previous e-sides I had were 1.5km longer than ones on now (I have the right contacts to get them swapped).
-
Thats the one, oversubbing. Didn't read your above post hehe.
Remember, a standard 622Mbps central from BT's ATM to ISP costs the ISP over £1m/yr. The maths of this means that a fully max'd out 8Mbps line will cost ISP just shy of £2k per month purely in central costs, before considering port costs, ISP's own network/infrastructure/overheads, or transit costs that are also high.
Some people have considered it their god given right to max out their DSL lines downloading 'Linux Distros' etc (yeah, right, 400Gb of Linux distros per month is a lot of Linux). These people have ruined DSL for the masses, as there was no way it could go on. So now we have to live with small caps, or overloaded centrals. And in the case of MaxDSL, limited VPs from exchanges...
-
Thats the one, oversubbing. Didn't read your above post hehe.
Remember, a standard 622Mbps central from BT's ATM to ISP costs the ISP over £1m/yr. The maths of this means that a fully max'd out 8Mbps line will cost ISP just shy of £2k per month purely in central costs, before considering port costs, ISP's own network/infrastructure/overheads, or transit costs that are also high.
Some people have considered it their god given right to max out their DSL lines downloading 'Linux Distros' etc (yeah, right, 400Gb of Linux distros per month is a lot of Linux). These people have ruined DSL for the masses, as there was no way it could go on. So now we have to live with small caps, or overloaded centrals. And in the case of MaxDSL, limited VPs from exchanges...
Well I don't do Linux, TBH, but after all you do pay for the service so why not use it... ?
Nothing wrong with getting your monies worth.
Port Costs to BT are pretty low (all things considered), and yes I agree an ISP overheads can be quite high....
MAXDSL, MAY not lead to limited Virtual Paths, it depends on the line quantity the exchange is dealing with, if it's full to the brim, with brand spanking new copper, then yes limited VPs may have to happen, as the total stable speed may be very high indeed but on empty exchanges with crap lines, fill um up! :D
Cheers.
Matt
-
BT appear to have restricted the VPs used by MaxDSL so poor speeds across BT's ATM network are more noticable on Max than on older fixed products.
Hence, in evenings, my 2Mb fixed line outperforms my Max line.
-
Yes, but you will have 1 Virtual Path, and one Virtual Channel per Line.
They may well limit you to a certain amount of TCP connections however, or throttle the bandwidth.
Think (though not 100% Certain) that the current VPI is still 38, I think they are running out of space though and newer connections are starting to get other numbers.
The Channel ID is still 0 though
Cheers.
Matt
-
I don't actually mind about the speed cap... I'd happily sit at 1 or 2mb if it was stable, and had a nice latency. As it is, my connection constantly drops out, and my latency to most main datacentres sits firmly at around 250ms. Some evenings or very early mornings (i.e. 2am!) it starts to speed up to an acceptable level. I fact I had a whole day at a nice speed once... ONE DAY.
I'd love to get cable back in. Nice 10:1 contention ratio and the reliability was solid. Plus works almost done on the DOCSIS 3.0 protocols, so speeds will take another bonus in the not too distant future. Only problem is, NTL won't install to where I live at the moment :(
it's Asyncronous, not Advanced, as some PC world Employees keep telling people!!
I just wanna punch these PC World employee's sometimes.
-
Yes Punching is a great idea.... ;D
I have a good humiliation Story with regards to a certain PC World employee in Swindon, which is a little out of the scope of the tread.... but very funny... there where tears, and Manager involved.... and all because he Lied....
Also the Notice on the door stated "Computer Engineers Needed, no Previous Experience Required"... :-?
Cheers.
Matt
-
I have a good humiliation Story with regards to a certain PC World employee in Swindon, which is a little out of the scope of the tread.... but very funny... there where tears, and Manager involved.... and all because he Lied....
Do tell... who cares about the thread derailment... already gone way over the scope :P ;D
-
Well....
I was standing in a queue at PC World, waiting to ask about some RAM.The Lady in front was chatting about her PC repair she had just had done to the PFY at the help desk.
He was the only one there, and I was waiting patiently, in a queue of 5, then 6 then 7.
The lady finished up, and before she left she said, Oh, I had Broadband installed at my house, and it's a new one called ADSL, what does the A Stand for....??
In that split second his fate was sealed!
If I could have caputured the look of terror on his face at that moment, I would have kept it always, as a reminder that "real fear looks like this"
The seconds passed, and all at once he blurted "advanced", while looking smug with himself.
Unfortunatly, I was in the queue, and his smugness is short lived.
"You liar", I blurt.
That area of the shop just stops, everyone looks at me.
The lady in front of me gave me an awful look.
" so ADSL stands for Advanced Digital Subscriber line does it ?", I ask in my best sarcastic voice.
Now rather than just own up, and claim he made it up, he says "yes, it does, I read it in the BT Manual."
At this point I see red...
"I see, so are you sure it doesn't stand for Asyncronous" I ask throwing him one last life line....
"no" says the PFY.
I then accuse him of lying again, and ask this Lady, how can she be sure the £456.88p she just handed over was for any kind of work done at all.
By this time My Wife (who is always up for a buit of Public Humiliation), goes and finds a Magazine from the front of the Store, called Broadbandbuyer, or something like that. we thumb through it and find ADSL - Asyncronous Digital Subscriber Line.
The lady now believes me, and starts demanding some proof of the work done, the guy behind me (unbeknown to me up until this point) is also here to pick up a desktop PC, and starts demanding proof. (it's amazing how these things snowball)
Then I start butting in asking about Compaq RAM.
The PFY cannot take it and starts to break down... he is going very very red at this point, and very sweaty, tears are in his eyes, and I'm telling the wife at the top of my voice how I think he is going to cry, which doesn't help a great deal, he claimed it was sweat but I know it was a tear, he retreats to fetch the Manager.
The Manager turns up, who is also a PFY. Average age of PC World Employee is 12 I think!
I start demanding free RAM... (I havn't actually brought anything yet, I only went in there for a part Number) no harm in trying is there... ?
I should point out that there is only 3 of us in the queue now, everyone else has got bored, and the shop is emptying fast.
The Manager claims "our employees are not liars"
"Well this one is" I say... "on the back of what you have just said, does that mean he no longer works for PC World... are you going to fire him for lying to the customers?"
The tears almost start again.
"he didn't lie, he told you what he thought the answer was"
"so he lied then?" I reason.
"well no, he just was misinformed, by our training."
"or he is just a lying towrag, that knows nothing about his own job, and anyway where was the RAM I ordered".
"Ok sir, what was the Part number?"
by now getting very pissed off...
"I don't know thats what I came in here for.... I spoke to him last week, and HE (Pointing) said he would order it in, he even took my card Number".
"I...I... have never spoken to you before" he shreeks
"you would say that wouldn't you."
To cut a long story short I get my 1GB Upgrade for FREE, and I play Battlefield 2 all that night, AFAIK the Lady in front and the Guy behind me are still in the queue demanding proof....
Cheers.
Matt
-
[smiley=lolk.gif] [smiley=grin.gif]
You're an evil git! Kudos on the free RAM upgrade though!!
-
Well....
I was standing in a queue at PC World, waiting to ask about some RAM.The Lady in front was chatting about her PC repair she had just had done to the PFY at the help desk.
He was the only one there, and I was waiting patiently, in a queue of 5, then 6 then 7.
The lady finished up, and before she left she said, Oh, I had Broadband installed at my house, and it's a new one called ADSL, what does the A Stand for....??
In that split second his fate was sealed!
If I could have caputured the look of terror on his face at that moment, I would have kept it always, as a reminder that "real fear looks like this"
The seconds passed, and all at once he blurted "advanced", while looking smug with himself.
Unfortunatly, I was in the queue, and his smugness is short lived.
"You liar", I blurt.
That area of the shop just stops, everyone looks at me.
The lady in front of me gave me an awful look.
" so ADSL stands for Advanced Digital Subscriber line does it ?", I ask in my best sarcastic voice.
Now rather than just own up, and claim he made it up, he says "yes, it does, I read it in the BT Manual."
At this point I see red...
"I see, so are you sure it doesn't stand for Asyncronous" I ask throwing him one last life line....
"no" says the PFY.
I then accuse him of lying again, and ask this Lady, how can she be sure the £456.88p she just handed over was for any kind of work done at all.
By this time My Wife (who is always up for a buit of Public Humiliation), goes and finds a Magazine from the front of the Store, called Broadbandbuyer, or something like that. we thumb through it and find ADSL - Asyncronous Digital Subscriber Line.
The lady now believes me, and starts demanding some proof of the work done, the guy behind me (unbeknown to me up until this point) is also here to pick up a desktop PC, and starts demanding proof. (it's amazing how these things snowball)
Then I start butting in asking about Compaq RAM.
The PFY cannot take it and starts to break down... he is going very very red at this point, and very sweaty, tears are in his eyes, and I'm telling the wife at the top of my voice how I think he is going to cry, which doesn't help a great deal, he claimed it was sweat but I know it was a tear, he retreats to fetch the Manager.
The Manager turns up, who is also a PFY. Average age of PC World Employee is 12 I think!
I start demanding free RAM... (I havn't actually brought anything yet, I only went in there for a part Number) no harm in trying is there... ?
I should point out that there is only 3 of us in the queue now, everyone else has got bored, and the shop is emptying fast.
The Manager claims "our employees are not liars"
"Well this one is" I say... "on the back of what you have just said, does that mean he no longer works for PC World... are you going to fire him for lying to the customers?"
The tears almost start again.
"he didn't lie, he told you what he thought the answer was"
"so he lied then?" I reason.
"well no, he just was misinformed, by our training."
"or he is just a lying towrag, that knows nothing about his own job, and anyway where was the RAM I ordered".
"Ok sir, what was the Part number?"
by now getting very pissed off...
"I don't know thats what I came in here for.... I spoke to him last week, and HE (Pointing) said he would order it in, he even took my card Number".
"I...I... have never spoken to you before" he shreeks
"you would say that wouldn't you."
To cut a long story short I get my 1GB Upgrade for FREE, and I play Battlefield 2 all that night, AFAIK the Lady in front and the Guy behind me are still in the queue demanding proof....
Cheers.
Matt
Ooh Matt............you're so cruel and heartless! [smiley=happy.gif] [smiley=grin.gif] [smiley=grin.gif]
-
I do try.... :D :D ;D :D >:( ;D :D ;D :D
-
Outstanding tale Matt PMSL :D
And thank's to you all for your advice and jargon, numerous initials and reference to all things beyond me. Taking all this into account I've fixed the problem - and now I'll be offline between 5-8pm - there sorted. ;)