Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: berserkerboy on 26 February 2016, 12:03:32
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Well it's one job after the other at the moment!
The drone from the back of the car appears to be the passenger rear bearing. Jacked up with the handbrake off I'm getting about 5mm play top and bottom and side to side. Glad I checked this out as the local garage told me it was probably my tyres.
Have looked at the guide on how to do this and have to say it looks a bit scary. Will have a go though.
Will need to get a bearing puller and the necessary bolts to remove the hub. Can anyone suggest the one I should buy or has anyone got one I could borrow?
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Without the right tools it is quite a job! But, it's ok to do on stands with the right tools. :y
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You have to pull the drive-flange off the hub, I use a modified Mini-flywheel puller, but a nut welded to a strap across the bolt PCD will work fine as it isn't tight.
This set is good for the bearing http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Bearing-Removal-Professional-Tool-Set-Kit-For-Front-Wheel-Drive-Heavy-Duty-/252134896364?hash=item3ab46932ec:g:GQMAAOSwl9BWJzCh (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Bearing-Removal-Professional-Tool-Set-Kit-For-Front-Wheel-Drive-Heavy-Duty-/252134896364?hash=item3ab46932ec:g:GQMAAOSwl9BWJzCh)
But that's the easy bit, as you will need to fabricate something to remove the hub; I found that trying to jack it out using the wheelbolts wasn't effective.
You'll also have to remove the inner bearing race off the hub, a careful slice with an angle grinder(a Dremel will also work but is much more work)
The bearing tool works for fitting the new bearing.
You can pull the hub back through the bearing using it's own threads and some suitable spacers; the old inner race can be used if it's a now loose fit, and I have an old one bored out 1mm to do the same thing.
Torquing it is awkward due to access and the required setting.
The whole thing is easily doable in a couple of hours working in the street.
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You can pull the hub back through the bearing using it's own threads and some suitable spacers; the old inner race can be used if it's a now loose fit, and I have an old one bored out 1mm to do the same thing.
Trying to picture how this would work?
Thinking of buying the bearing from carparts4less. They are showing a number of suitable bearings. Considering the Lucas @ £31.14
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You can pull the hub back through the bearing using it's own threads and some suitable spacers; the old inner race can be used if it's a now loose fit, and I have an old one bored out 1mm to do the same thing.
Trying to picture how this would work?
Thinking of buying the bearing from carparts4less. They are showing a number of suitable bearings. Considering the Lucas @ £31.14
Here's a sketch of the hub:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/hskkzrg9owr9vg3/Untitled.jpg?dl=1)
The red area is where the bearing goes, and it is a light press fit. This means you have to force it into place, and hammering it into a bearing isn't a good idea.
The splined, blue area is for the drive flange.
When you start the hub into the bearing, the threaded portion and some of the splined area poke out the back. The spacer goes over the splines, and you crank the nut up to pull the hub into place. When that setup bottoms out you undo the nut, add another spacer and repeat until the hub is fully seated in the bearing. Then you remove the spacers, fit the drive flange and torque up the nut.
About £30 for the bearing seems about right to me.
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Perfectly clear now, an excellent explanation. Thanks very much for that.
I was looking at the how to in the maintenance section where a complicated setup was used to get the hub back in with the drive flange in place.
Thanks for the heads up on the bearing removal kit on the bay.
Will get everything ordered up. No doubt I will be back for further advice :-\
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Remember saloon and estate different bearing
Saloon 90510542
Estate 90486468
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Okay. Gearing up to have a go at this.
Understand how to go about getting the drive flange off the hub.
But the hub out of the bearing. Could try the jacking out method. Does anyone know the size and pitch of the bolts I will need to obtain? Or does anyone have a better method?
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I have the proper tool for removing and inserting the bearing and it's for sale if you want to buy it £45 plus postage :y
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I have bearing puller that I will be able to use to get the bearing out and the new one in. Is that what you have or something to get the hub out of the bearing?
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it's the proper vauxhall tool made by kent moore can be done complete on axle stands :y
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Thanks for the offer. Just to confirm as I think my request may be a bit confusing due to me not knowing names of parts: Is this for getting the hub flange out of the bearing? Or for getting the bearing out of the hub?
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It's for both :y
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Here is what I use:
to remove the hub I knocked up this extractor out of Scrapbiniumtm
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9j714mi95s81o4/HubExtractor%20%28360x640%29.jpg?dl=1)
That's an offcut of 80mm hydraulic tubing, a thick steel disc which had already done several other jobs, a couple of thick steel lugs and an M16 nut all welded together on the car. No precision, finesse or even measuring was was used to do this, and all fitting was done with an angle grinder. It bolts on the back of the semi-trailing arm using the brake backing plate boltholes(and their bolts) and a long M16 bolt effortlessly pushes the hub through the bearing. It's done 4 so far, which has handsomely repaid the 10minutes it took to make. I didn't have any success using the wheelbolts to jack the hub out.
For the bearing I use this set
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/9qkv2q354qdmv7d/BearingPullerSet%20%281%29.jpg?dl=1)
which is readily available and works great for removing and replacing the bearing.
I pull the hub back through the new bearing using its own nut and a couple of spacers(two old inner bearing races bored to be a loose fit on the hub)
An impact wrench makes light work of using both pullers.
This takes less than 2hours working in the street.
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It's for both :y
Have sent you a PM
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Thanks Nick W for your post. Your kit looks just the job. I have the bearing kit, just need to source/make the special tools you have. Will save the old inner bearing bits to pull the hub flange back in, if I get that far.
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You can pull the hub back through the bearing using it's own threads and some suitable spacers; the old inner race can be used if it's a now loose fit, and I have an old one bored out 1mm to do the same thing.
Trying to picture how this would work?
Thinking of buying the bearing from carparts4less. They are showing a number of suitable bearings. Considering the Lucas @ £31.14
PM sent to you Nick W :y
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Please keep us in touch as the job progresses, Berserkerboy. It's a job I have never done, and which frightens me. I used to scrap cars with failed clutches or blown head gaskets, now I can repair them. I still cannot change tyres. Nick says RWBs can be changed in 2 hours in the street. I should allow more time than that, like a week, but I hope you get there in the end. Good luck!
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Struggling at the first hurdle!
Thought I'd try to undo some bolts before I take everything apart, specifically the 6 bolts holding the half shaft to the drive flange. 8mm hex but even tho I have cleaned up and sprayed with release fluid they just wont budge with the allen key I have. I've ordered up a 1/2" drive 8mm hex bit in the hope that I can get a bit more on it.
Is it okay to put the engine in park to keep the wheel stationary while I try to loosen them off? Didn't want to have to make anything to hold the wheel as suggested in the maintenance guide on the subject.
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Screw two adjacent wheelbolts into the hub and hold it steady with a prybar between them.
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Got it :) Will have to wait for the 1/2 inch drive to arrive from the bay.
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Are the bolts locktighted?
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I don't think so. I've never had any trouble undoing them with an ordinary 3/8 ratchet.
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Pop the wheel back on and jack that corner high. Lower onto a ramp, undo any bolts in reach, re jack, rotate wheel a 1/4 turn, lower and repeat. Let the weight of the car do the work :y
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Hex nuts undone. Neilson set from the bay £7 ish was a good investment. Anyone attempting this, you will not get them undone with an allen key and risk rounding the bolt off.
Wondering if I can get the 300NM nut off of the bearing by using Nick W's or Harris K Telemachers techniques with just the handbrake on or whether I need to make the anti rotation device as shown in the maintenance guide?
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For the record my suggestion was for cracking the hex bolts ;)
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Hex nuts undone. Neilson set from the bay £7 ish was a good investment. Anyone attempting this, you will not get them undone with an allen key and risk rounding the bolt off.
Wondering if I can get the 300NM nut off of the bearing by using Nick W's or Harris K Telemachers techniques with just the handbrake on or whether I need to make the anti rotation device as shown in the maintenance guide?
Pry bar across the wheelbolts works fine for this. Chances are, if the bearing is knackered you'll find it isn't particularly tight. Doing it up to 300Nm can be interesting due to lack of access
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300Nm bolt undone. You were right Nick, didn't seem particularly tight. Really wishing I'd been quick enough to buy the tools I was offered above as I'm struggling to get the drive flange off. Knocked up a strap with a nut welded on but it's just bending the 3mm steel. Need to weld on a bit of strengthening. Then looking forward to pushing out the hub....Not!
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300Nm bolt undone. You were right Nick, didn't seem particularly tight. Really wishing I'd been quick enough to buy the tools I was offered above as I'm struggling to get the drive flange off. Knocked up a strap with a nut welded on but it's just bending the 3mm steel. Need to weld on a bit of strengthening. Then looking forward to pushing out the hub....Not!
I use a Mini flywheel puller with one of the slots filled slightly to get two of the drive flange bolts in it. This is nowhere near centered, but the drive flange isn't a tight fit on the splines, and so it works effectively. You only need to start it moving. Flat 3mm steel is a little optimistic, but doubling it up should work.
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Strap MK2 did the trick. Gave up on the 3mm and used a piece of angle iron (about 5mm) and an M16 nut and bolt. Will dismantle brakes tomorrow and figure out how to push hub out of bearing.
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Just put the hub nut on, large block of wood, and big stick(hammer), good whack flange comes out, with the race on, cut race off with angle grinder. Flange is out, remove circlip, then remove bearing.
Top tip. Place new bearing in freezer, for 24/48 hrs. :)
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Just put the hub nut on, large block of wood, and big stick(hammer), good whack flange comes out, with the race on, cut race off with angle grinder. Flange is out, remove circlip, then remove bearing.
Top tip. Place new bearing in freezer, for 24/48 hrs. :)
If you do this, you must hit it hard enough to drive the flange most of the way through the bearing. Use a big hammer. Otherwise you'll get it cocked in there, which will make things really interesting. It's why I don't use the wheelbolt method to draw it out.
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Just put the hub nut on, large block of wood, and big stick(hammer), good whack flange comes out, with the race on, cut race off with angle grinder. Flange is out, remove circlip, then remove bearing.
Top tip. Place new bearing in freezer, for 24/48 hrs. :)
If you do this, you must hit it hard enough to drive the flange most of the way through the bearing. Use a big hammer. Otherwise you'll get it cocked in there, which will make things really interesting. It's why I don't use the wheelbolt method to draw it out.
Use old head bolts.
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Not moving with the big hammer. Can't get enough swing on it. Looking at bolts that hold on brake backing plate. Never seen that type of drive before. Anyone know what it is and size I need? My torx T50 fits in but suspect too loose to undo. Will put bearing in the freezer, thanks for the tip biggriffin.
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Not moving with the big hammer. Can't get enough swing on it. Looking at bolts that hold on brake backing plate. Never seen that type of drive before. Anyone know what it is and size I need? My torx T50 fits in but suspect too loose to undo. Will put bearing in the freezer, thanks for the tip biggriffin.
They are spline drive, either M8 or M10. Don't use torx or Allen bits as you will round them out. No, I have no idea why they used spline drive bolts here, as they are the only ones that I have come across on the car.
If you freeze the bearing, and hit it hard enough(on the outside race) you might not need a tool to fit it.
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Cheers Nick. Will look on the bay if I need to. Tried hitting again and think I may have a bit of movement. If it looks like it's skewing will use your method.
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Hurrah!! Hob off. Didn't want to wait for spline tools. Used a mixture of jacking using the wheel nuts and whacking as suggested above. Could see there was some movement and eventually was able to slide some angle iron between hub and housing and really got some movement using the 5 wheel nuts to jack out. Can see how easy this would have been with the correct tools but I had to make do with what I had.
So next job, after a well earned cup of tea! Getting that big circlip out. Looks fairly well set in. Any tips folks?
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Stout circlip pliers...
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Stout circlip pliers...
And a screwdriver around the edge to pry it out. It will be a very tight fit, as it's probably been there 15 years
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As I feared then :-\
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Oh! That was easier than I thought it would be: Spray with release fluid. Sharp 6in nail. Put in circlip hole and bash as if you were trying to close it. Do the other one. The circlip started to spin round. Use the sharp nail in circlip hole to lever up one end enough to get a small screwdriver into the recess under clip. Turning the screwdriver lifts the clip enough to get a bigger screwdriver underneath a bit further along. Use a hammer to move this screwdiver along the circlip circumference until you are about half way around effectively compressing the clip and leave in place. Use another big screwdiver at the end you started to bend the circlip out. Use the two screwdrivers to remove the circlip by levering out.
Bearing removal tool time. Never used these before so need to work out the method.
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Damn! >:( Bearing removal tool uses 32mm and 26mm socket. Haven't got the 26mm so will have to source one.
In the meantime I've cut off the inner race that was stuck on the hub. This is a bit tricky and I have unfortunately made a little scoreline on the hub where the new bearing will push on. Am hoping this will be okay. The inner race split quite easily with a cold chisel. I could probably have not tried to get so far through the race which led to the damage. Probably best to make a cut big enough to try the chisel and then cut more until it goes. Live and learn I guess.
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Damn! >:( Bearing removal tool uses 32mm and 26mm socket. Haven't got the 26mm so will have to source one.
In the meantime I've cut off the inner race that was stuck on the hub. This is a bit tricky and I have unfortunately made a little scoreline on the hub where the new bearing will push on. Am hoping this will be okay. The inner race split quite easily with a cold chisel. I could probably have not tried to get so far through the race which led to the damage. Probably best to make a cut big enough to try the chisel and then cut more until it goes. Live and learn I guess.
File and polish the burr of the edges of the cut and stop worrying. I cut all the way through the race on mine, so it has a bit more than a scoreline!
If you removed the brake backing plate to get this far, your next job is to refit it and assemble the handbrake mechanism. You do NOT want to fit the hub and find these parts on the bench :o
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Cheers Nick. Glad there is no problem there. I didn't think so but reckon I could have got it off with no marks if I'd thought more about it. Thanks for the tip about the handbrake mechanism. Didn't take the back plate off but can see that it will be much easier to reassemble before I put the hub back in.
Got to wait for the 26mm socket but feel I've broken the back of this...Famous last words!! ;D
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LOL! Famous last words indeed!
Got the 26mm socket in the post today and proceeded to tighten up the bearing removal tool. OMG I have put so much pressure on this that I can't believe the bearing hasn't budged. Used a breaker bar and a length of pipe and am worried now that I'll break the breaker bar if I try to tighten any further. Also the pipe bit that rests against the outer part of the housing looks like it might slip to one side. I'm using #06 insert as this seemed a nice fit in the outer part of the housing. It seemed to fit okay at the back of the housing as well with just a mil or so movement around the edge. I hope I am right here?
Even used my blow torch to heat the outer part of the housing whilst the tool was under pressure reasoning that the expansion would put even more pressure on the bearing, but no joy.
Wondering where to go with this now.
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The bearing isn't a particularly tight fit, so you're jammed on something. Check that the plate will easily fit through the hole in the hub carrier. I broke the end off the puller studding not paying enough attention to that. Welding up new tools the first time you use them isn't fun.
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Cheers Nick. Think I must be using the wrong insert. Probably need to use #07. Will see if I can undo the tool tomorrow. :)
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Yep wrong insert. Didn't realise it should be so much smaller. #11 if that means much. There is quite a lip at the back and you are pushing against the inner race rather than the outer. I wasn't thinking this one through as to how the housing is constructed. Silly me, showing my mechanical inexperience :-\. It's moving but it's dark now and raining, strange that here in Wales :D Hopefully get it out tomorrow.
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So folks. If you are using a bearing removal tool such as the one like Nicks then be aware that the blank that you use to remove the bearing at the rear is very much smaller than the one you use at the front to get the new bearing back in. There was quite a bit of rust at the back and at first I put on too big a blank as it was difficult to see exactly what was needed.
Nick is right: The bearing winds out quite easily and if it gets really stiff you are probably jammed on something.
Putting the new bearing in was really easy. I had mine in the freezer for a while but it still needed pulling in with the tool.
The next job was getting the big circlip in. I don't have a big enough pair of pliers and there seemed no way of tapping it in. Necessity is the mother of invention: I took the point off of two shiny nails that fitted in the circlip holes. Insert them so that they are protruding about 2mm. You have to use a pair of water pump pliers or similar up against the circlip to squeeze the nails together whilst using a slim cold chisel or similar the other side to ensure that the nails stay roughly parallel. I was able to compress the circlip enough the get it mostly in and then tap it in the final bit with a screwdriver. I'm sure the health and safety officer wouldn't have been impressed as there is a chance of everything springing apart. In my defense I wore some safety glasses :y
Reassembled the drum brakes which was easier with the hub out of the way. Thanks Nick for recommending this as they are a bit tricky.
To get the hub back in you have to use washers or similar up against the new bearing and wind it in. I fortunately had some old heavy duty pipe of the correct diameter that I could cut into various lengths, about 1.5cm and 0.5cm, and also used the old inner race I had cut off. I wouldn't have been able to do it with just the old inner races as there is not enough thread on the hub to just pull it through. This job was pretty awkward as you are trying to keep the hub stationary with the pry bar whilst getting the socket on properly at the back. I'm glad I had bought a long reach ratchet as you can only turn the nut a small amount each time.
Putting the drive flange back on is a similar exercise. I found that I had to tap it on gently before I had enough thread at the back to be able to get the nut on. The final tensioning of the nut is 300NM. This is equivalent to 30kg at 1 metre which is pretty tight but doable. Just be careful to keep the socket on square to the nut. It is a very shallow nut and it's easy to slip off it when you are trying to get big pressure on it.
Will get the drive shaft and disc brakes back together today to finish the job, hopefully :D
Post reply
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I is well pleased 8). Took the car for a test drive today and everything is whisper quiet. I honestly couldn't have done this without the excellent advice I have received from everyone here. I'd like to give special thanks to Nick W who responded to my requests for help in double quick time. It was like having an experienced mechanic looking over my shoulder.
The job took a long time as you have to figure your way around problems and weld up tools to pull and push things.
I think if I had to do the other side I could now have it done in 2-3 hours.
I would tell others here to not be afraid of this job. If I can do it then so can you. :y
You need the bearing puller kit. A breaker bar and long reach ratchet. Be sure you have the hex drives and 32mm socket. Make or borrow the push/pull tools.
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Congratulations! Thanks for sharing the battle with us. I do not have any welding kit or skills, so I am not confident I could do it, but your achievement gives me hope. At the moment I have no Omega in need of this repair. I had one, but scrapped it. Next time I will have a go.
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Thanks Terry. If you ever need it, I can lend you the bearing puller and the strap I made to get the drive flange off. It would only cost a few quid to send. The only tricky bit then would be to get the hub out of the bearing. Ideally you need a tool like Nicks pipe job. I didn't have this or the spline tools to get the brake backing plate off in order to bolt the tool on. I just used a block of wood to bash the bearing out a little then some angle iron to jack it off using the wheel nuts.
So happy to have my car back. The missus is happy that I wont need to keep borrowing her smart car any more. I may though as MOT on mine is due 1st May :-\
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Thanks for the offer. I suspect one day I shall take it up. Unlike some of our members, I love my Omegas, have six of them, and am aware of no more desirable transport. All my cars have are 13+ years and 100K miles old, and things fail. I can do many common jobs on them, but not rear wheel bearings; my next big challenge.
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No problem Terry. I agree. Can't think what I would get otherwise. I usually have one at a time but this is my third. I've had a 2.5TD, a 2.0 CDX lpg and currently 3.2V6 elite lpg. The V6 sounds fab!
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is it best to replace BOTH rear bearings at the same time, because knowing my luck, the other will start to go after a couple of miles lol
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is it best to replace BOTH rear bearings at the same time, because knowing my luck, the other will start to go after a couple of miles lol
No. They're not a normal service part, and it's impossible to say when they will fail. Most Omegas are scrapped with both original bearings still working well. I replaced my OSR bearing 3years ago; the NSR one is still original.