Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tunnie on 10 March 2016, 22:54:21
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So I've compression tested my trusty steed, have to say there is something about working at night with head lamps ;D
Now instructions said do it with warm engine, I did it while cold. Any impact?
Results:
Pot 1 = 15.5 Bar
Pot 2 = 15.3 Bar
Pot 3 = 15.8 Bar
Pot 4 = 16.0 Bar
So all consistent and about the same, so it looks like HG has survived?
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those values looks good :y lucky you :)
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Next stop, water pump :)
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Next stop, water pump and cambelt :)
Just to be sure ;)
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It starts and revs ok so if Cambelt was feked, don't think I would have made it home?
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Water pump wouldn't bother the cam belt if it had just lost its' impeller. Either thst or the thermostat has failed. Was the heater blowing hot after it failed? Was it happy running on lpg?
If yes to both, i'd say the thermostat is favourite.
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Only suggested cambelt as you need to remove it to swap the pump out and if the pump has wept as a side effect then it won't have done the belt any favours...
Thermostat only just been done, no? :-\
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So the stat.... I fitted a genuine GM one bought from a dealer. When purchasing I gave the part number supplied here, parts bloke said it was super seeded with xyz part number. I fitted the stat but it would never go above 75c, in the morning it would get to 75 and stat would open, temp dropped almost to end stop!
So I fitted one from ECP as a test, it's been fine since. (Around 6 weeks ago) Running bang on 85c as it should do, all of the time.
What's best way to test stat? Will it be visually obvious it's failed/stuck?
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Heat was good and it's been fine on LPG :y
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Also AA bod put a pressure gauge on coolant bottle, there was no change in pressure when the engine was revved?
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Also AA bod put a pressure gauge on coolant bottle, there was no change in pressure when the engine was revved?
Just suggests it's not a catastrophic head gasket failure.
You can test the thermostat by putting it in a pan of boiling water and checking that it starts to open.
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So just for my understanding, with engine at normal temp and everything as it should be. You would not expect to see pressure changes in coolant system under RPM changes?
I'll pop the stat off at the weekend, pop it in some boiling water. I take it I will see the coiled part retract slightly? If nothing then it's stuck shut?
I guess that would give the same symptoms? - Coolant in the engine block gets too hot, the stat refuses to open, thus not allowing colder coolant in from the rad into the block?
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Take it LPG's been plumbed in correctly, as you say check Stat first then Pump, but I had a 2.0 LPG from a Member here about 5 yrs back (diagnosed as HG Failure by his Garage, which it wasn't), the thing was all over the place on temperature, especially in cold weather like were having now, changed stat, convinced that was the problem, but latter found out the LPG Vap was furbed and effecting temp. :-\
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Take it LPG's been plumbed in correctly, as you say check Stat first then Pump, but I had a 2.0 LPG from a Member here about 5 yrs back, the thing was all over the place on temperature, especially in cold weather like were having now, changed stat, convinced that was the problem, but latter found out the LPG Vap was furbed and effecting temp. :-\
Hummm interesting, not considered that. LPG installed by Lazydocker, so it's about as right as something can get! Never missed a beat since 135k install.
Did he have issues running on LPG with temp over the place? It's running fine on gas or petrol, but having temp issues as described above.
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I took it on as possible cheap repairer, (Craig from Watford from memeroy), His Garage had diagnosed as HG fail, sniff test, as temperature would run hot, cold, etc). I wasn't convinced it was HG.
Car would run fine, on Petrol and LPG, would take ages to get warm then overheat, go cold etc, very occasionally, if you took it on a long run (cold weather) LPG would start be hesitant, then switch off, car would get hot again, stop car, wait 5 mins off you go again for any to 10 to 100 miles.?
As said I was convinced it was an iffy stat, and, or, needed a good flush, but as said turned out to be the Vap in the end.
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So just for my understanding, with engine at normal temp and everything as it should be. You would not expect to see pressure changes in coolant system under RPM changes?
I'll pop the stat off at the weekend, pop it in some boiling water. I take it I will see the coiled part retract slightly? If nothing then it's stuck shut?
I guess that would give the same symptoms? - Coolant in the engine block gets too hot, the stat refuses to open, thus not allowing colder coolant in from the rad into the block?
The pump is for coolant flow. Pressure comes from the coolant heating up in a sealed system.
Your symptoms are a flow issue. Whether that is caused by a blockage(and a faulty thermostat is the usual cause) or a defective waterpump can only be confirmed by actually checking the car. One of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500? hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500?hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK) is an efficient way of checking the flow, as you can easily track the temperature of various parts of the cooling system. £11 is dirt cheap for a tool you'll find allsorts of uses for; blocked exhausts, bad wheelbearings, seized brakes, central heating faults are all easily diagnosed and the laser makes a good cat toy.
I think you have a loose impeller on the waterpump, a fault that is becoming increasingly common.
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So just for my understanding, with engine at normal temp and everything as it should be. You would not expect to see pressure changes in coolant system under RPM changes?
I'll pop the stat off at the weekend, pop it in some boiling water. I take it I will see the coiled part retract slightly? If nothing then it's stuck shut?
I guess that would give the same symptoms? - Coolant in the engine block gets too hot, the stat refuses to open, thus not allowing colder coolant in from the rad into the block?
If a thermostat is going to stick shut then it will normally do it from cold.
Have you inspected the pump yet?
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I'd flush the rad before dismantling stuff, especially as you need to disturb the cam belt. ;)
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One of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500?hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK
Dont tell Him to buy one of them, for Gods sake, He be playing with for weeks, He be posting up all sorts of issues, heated seat temp, wing mirror temp, inner ear temp, LPG tank temp, the list will be endless. ::) ;D
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One of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500?hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500?hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK)
Dont tell Him to buy one of them, for Gods sake, He be playing with for weeks, He be posting up all sorts of issues, heated seat temp, wing mirror temp, inner ear temp, LPG tank temp, the list will be endless. ::) ;D
You've got one too ;D ;D
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One of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500?hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500?hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK)
Dont tell Him to buy one of them, for Gods sake, He be playing with for weeks, He be posting up all sorts of issues, heated seat temp, wing mirror temp, inner ear temp, LPG tank temp, the list will be endless. ::) ;D
You've got one too ;D ;D
No, but as Trigger say's on 'Only Fools and Horses' "Im thinking of getting one though" ;D
So, why that one Nick, and not one of the cheaper 5/6 quid ones?, or was that an example on ebay.
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Firstly, thanks for everyone's comments OOF at its best :y
Cheaper one here:http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-BIT-/121858599675?nav=SEARCH (http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-BIT-/121858599675?nav=SEARCH)
Is Nicks one better quality? Also thanks for suggesting. Looks very useful, will get one of these :y
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Firstly, thanks for everyone's comments OOF at its best :y
Cheaper one here:http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-BIT-/121858599675?nav=SEARCH (http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-BIT-/121858599675?nav=SEARCH)
Is Nicks one better quality? Also thanks for suggesting. Looks very useful, will get one of these :y
See, I toid ya, we'll never going to hear the end of it now. ::) ;D
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One of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500?hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Thermometer-Laser-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-Gun-/361435030500?hash=item542734e3e4:g:A4YAAOSwosFUXKVK)
Dont tell Him to buy one of them, for Gods sake, He be playing with for weeks, He be posting up all sorts of issues, heated seat temp, wing mirror temp, inner ear temp, LPG tank temp, the list will be endless. ::) ;D
You've got one too ;D ;D
No, but as Trigger says on 'Only Fools and Horses' "I'm thinking of getting one though" ;D
So, why that one Nick, and not one of the cheaper 5/6 quid ones?, or was that an example on ebay.
Delivery times, it's in the UK, the cheaper ones are sent from China.
Mine's Bluepoint, bought off the Snap-On van at least 13 years ago for £30. Which was half the price of the next cheapest I'd seen at the time. Now, I'd buy a cheap one, as I only use it for diagnostics and that's comparative rather than accurate.
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Ah yes. Point taken, much quicker delivery. :)
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Much to Zirk's disappointment, I've just ordered one Nick linked to ::)
Thoughts and actions so far:
- Sub 25mph, with low RPM, temp stays stable. Higher speed = higher temps, also low speed but under load (ie climbing a hill) also increases temp.
- Cooling fan even at 95c is not coming on. However it's been shorted out as a test, it spins up fine.
- Engine starts and runs well, no miss-fires, it also runs fine on either LPG or Petrol.
- Cabin Heat is good.
1) Next test I will get to do is putting the stat in boiling water, see if it opens.
2) One test would be to use new thermometer to see how hot rad is when fully warmed up, is it failing to trigger fan? :-\ That said higher speeds would keep temp down I would have thought, which is not the case.
3) Take cam cover off, so that the new thermometer could get a reading off the water pump.
4) Get a temp reading on the LPG vap.
Any other thoughts?
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Much to Zirk's disappointment, I've just ordered one Nick linked to ::)
Thoughts and actions so far:
- Sub 25mph, with low RPM, temp stays stable. Higher speed = higher temps, also low speed but under load (ie climbing a hill) also increases temp.
- Cooling fan even at 95c is not coming on. However it's been shorted out as a test, it spins up fine.
- Engine starts and runs well, no miss-fires, it also runs fine on either LPG or Petrol.
- Cabin Heat is good.
1) Next test I will get to do is putting the stat in boiling water, see if it opens.
2) One test would be to use new thermometer to see how hot rad is when fully warmed up, is it failing to trigger fan? :-\ That said higher speeds would keep temp down I would have thought, which is not the case.
3) Take cam cover off, so that the new thermometer could get a reading off the water pump.
4) Get a temp reading on the LPG vap.
Any other thoughts?
Low speed/low RPM doesn't put much heat into the system; just look at how long it takes to open the thermostat when idling.
Cooling fan not coming on at indicated 95* suggests that the sensors are seeing different temps, and they are as far apart as they can be. Likely cause: poor coolant flow
Starts and runs well means it's unlikely to be a serious mechanical fault(head gasket, cracked head etc). You would have mentioned water loss, which is either a visible leak or going out the exhaust/into the oil.
I would normally just replace a thermostat due to its low cost but you've already done so a that, so simple testing is justified.
Use the thermometer to check all accessible parts of the cooling system; hoses, water pump, housings, heater hoses, outlets, various points across the radiator(you might be surprised how a healthy one will measure). This is just a more sophisticated way of feeling the radiator hose for the 'stat to open.
I still think you've got a defective waterpump
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Thanks :y :y :y
Stat is very new, but just an ECP one, so who knows how well these last. But I would have thought better than weeks!
Still, testing the stat is dead easy and easily accessible on the 2.2. So a nice quick test before disturbing the cambelt.
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I'd check pump at same time. Quick and easy on 2.2.
You could have both checked in under an hour (double if nursing a Friday night indulgance)