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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 12:29:16

Title: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 12:29:16
I have been toying with the idea of using part of my pension fund to buy a classic car. I have heard that they can be a very good long term investment.
Two problems with this. I don't have a garage to keep it in, and I don't think I could ever decide which one to buy.
So, if you had, say a maximum of £10k to spend on a classic, what would you buy ?
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Nick W on 30 March 2016, 12:49:13
It doesn't matter as you've missed the boat for worthwhile but affordable investments.

Buy something that's tidy and usable.

Then use it often. Using it constantly is better.

As soon as somebody offers you a decent profit, sell it and buy something else.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 30 March 2016, 13:53:34
As a general rule originality is favoured too. Probably for ten grand a lot of stuff is already out your prioce range, maybe something in the 'modern classic' league that's set to appreciate, rather than the stuff that's already been got at by the 'cool gang' VW campers, original Minis, 500s, Audi Quattros, TR6s etc.. are all going for nuts money now.

How about an Omega? if a 2000 example is worth maybe £500 now, compare that with a Royale that sold on heebay the other day for £1000, that's a doubling of your investment for only a wait of twenty years, and twenty years of tax, fuel, parts, mots, repairs.  ;D ;D


As you see, finding the right car is the important bit.  :y In a way, get something you love, sod it, and if it appreciates in value, happy days, if not, well, you enjoyed it. Nothing lost.  :)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 30 March 2016, 14:04:05
At the weekend there was a one owner, full Ford history, 67k mile late model Scorpio estate on Autotrader, in Fareham iirc... the price? £795 :o

If I had been a) in the market for a longterm keeper, and b) had any interest whatsoever in owning a bosseyed frog then I would have bought it in an instant.

Point is, it shows that there are all sorts of potential cars out there, you just need to be ready to pounce when you find them.

Incidentally,  Sierras are starting to rise now ;)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 16:29:38
When I say classic, Im not thinking Bugatti Royale. Something from the late 70,s early 80,s is more realistic. I could have bought a low mileage Mini (30th anniversary model iirc) for 2 grand a couple of months ago, but I wasn't thinking along these lines then - which is typical.  ::)
Quite like the idea of an old Fiat 500 actually, for some reason.  :)
Then again, theres motorbikes. Ducati 916, early RI/ Fireblade. Or even a 70,s Kawasaki that needs a bit of TLC.  :-\
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 30 March 2016, 16:49:58
Schumacher drove a 500, nowt wrong with them as a classic. But as you say, something that's still a little 'off the radar' Thinking about it there's a few directions...

Badge
like Beemers, Audis, old faithful Jag. People are snobs, and will always pay more for the badge. Earl reg Boxster perhaps?

Retro Appeal
Something that people lusted at in their youth, whoch fast forward 20 eyars and they can finally afford one, so Elises, Scoobies, Evos, various Jap coupes perhaps will be the 'classics' of the future.

Predict a Trend
Don't forget the image of a company changes, look at what Skoda has become over the last few years, pretty decent motors, same with Seat - a dreary Spanish company making rebadged Fiats when I were a lad, now they're the youthful 'cool' brand of VAG. Saab, they're gone, so surely an element of rarity will produce higher values eventually?

Rebuild
Save some cash, buy an accident damaged something which you ordinarily couldn't afford.


Just a few thoughts, based on nothing but my own musings.  :)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 30 March 2016, 18:19:24
Merc 190e would be a good choice prices are really on the way up find a good example with service history & low miles ,you can't go wrong.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 March 2016, 18:22:25
I completely agree. The prices of the EVO models are already eye watering. Thing is, I already have a 190, and would probably prefer something a bit different.
There may well be other Mercs that might fit the bill though. :y
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: YZ250 on 30 March 2016, 18:36:26
Think all of my old cars went up ten fold a few years after I sold them on. My old Mini Cooper S, 1275GT, RS2000, Capri 3.0S all seem to be worth more now than when they were new.  :-\

I just can't understand how I lose thousands on cars and then they become a collectors dream when I get rid of them.   :-\ ::)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Nick W on 30 March 2016, 18:39:45
Think all of my old cars went up ten fold a few years after I sold them on. My old Mini Cooper S, 1275GT, RS2000, Capri 3.0S all seem to be worth more now than when they were new.  :-\

I just can't understand how I lose thousands on cars and then they become a collectors dream when I get rid of them.   :-\ ::)


Me too. But I've missed out by months on some of mine!
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Tick Tock on 30 March 2016, 18:52:26
When I say classic, Im not thinking Bugatti Royale. Something from the late 70,s early 80,s is more realistic. I could have bought a low mileage Mini (30th anniversary model iirc) for 2 grand a couple of months ago, but I wasn't thinking along these lines then - which is typical.  ::)
Quite like the idea of an old Fiat 500 actually, for some reason.  :)
Then again, theres motorbikes. Ducati 916, early RI/ Fireblade. Or even a 70,s Kawasaki that needs a bit of TLC.  :-\

Slightly off topic here, but worth mentioning.......  any investment will require some sort of security. Only recently there was an article on the BBC news website about the 70s & 80s cars being stolen and broken down for parts / sold on by unscrupulous kerb life.

On another note, a friend bought a Ferrari 15 years ago for £16k, spent thousands every year on maintenance and hardly ever drove it, then sold it last year for slightly less, so worth bearing in mind your investment can go up or down..... nothing's certain in this world.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: BazaJT on 30 March 2016, 18:56:29
I'd hang on a little while longer as prices are dropping back a little at present,not the big "crash" of the late '80's/early '90's mind.In the "affordable" line anything wearing a blue oval badge generally goes up faster than one wearing the griffin for some reason,even though they're not necessarily better cars.XK8 prices can only really go upwards[as will other Jags]and many insurance companies will class any Jag over 5yrs old as a classic!As others have said buy something you like use it enjoy it and at the end of the day you may turn a profit,but if not you'll have enjoyed yourself along the way!
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: omegod on 30 March 2016, 19:02:12
 80's/90's Fords: RS turbo fiesta/escort. XR2, XR3i  Capri 2.8i's  etc are starting to climb steadily after lagging behind the 70's RS2000's and the RS Cosworth's. Buy the best you can find wisely and you won't lose money   
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Nick W on 30 March 2016, 19:09:07
80's/90's Fords: RS turbo fiesta/escort. XR2, XR3i  Capri 2.8i's  etc are starting to climb steadily after lagging behind the 70's RS2000's and the RS Cosworth's. Buy the best you can find wisely and you won't lose money


All of those 'started' to climb 6 or 7 years ago after the price of RWD Escorts went skyhigh. Anything vaguely interesting from the early '80s or older is now appreciating rapidly. Everything else got melted down some years ago. Remember the last time you saw an early Sierra/mk2 Cavalier/Nova/mk3 Escort?
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: zirk on 30 March 2016, 19:37:07
I sold my RWD RS Cosworth Sapphire a few years back, as it was just collecting dust and started to need some TLC, it was the very last of the RWD off the production line before that went 4x4, the last batch were all Ebony Black as was mine.

Looking back now even though I got reasonable price for it in 2014, today it probably worth another 5k on top by  todays prices.  ::) 

And yes, I do miss it,  :'(
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: VXL V6 on 30 March 2016, 21:36:04
I scrapped an SD1 for £50 many years ago... Now SD1 Vittesses are going for some serious money and the vast majority of parts (including all body panels) are available from Rimmer Bros....

Stupid Boy Pike.

Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Jukeboxnut on 30 March 2016, 21:52:40
Forget cars which can and will rot, get damaged etc. and buy a good jukebox instead.  The prices are booming and show no sign of slowing down due to overwhelming demand and a dwindling supply of good machines.  200 selection machines of the late 1950 era are the best buys.

Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: YZ250 on 30 March 2016, 22:03:39
I scrapped an SD1 for £50 many years ago... Now SD1 Vittesses are going for some serious money and the vast majority of parts (including all body panels) are available from Rimmer Bros....

Stupid Boy Pike.

I got £250 for my Moonraker SD1 Vitesse TP in PX for my MG Montego Turbo. The SD1 had failed the MOT on steering rack play and I couldn't pack it enough  ::) to get it through.
Was still an excellent runner though.  :y
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 30 March 2016, 22:37:49
In August 1973 I purchased a new Ford Escort Mexico in Monza blue with white Mexico logos ,the price £1,230 OTR they are now fetching around £25,000 if only I could have mothballed it !
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: dbug on 30 March 2016, 23:23:13
When I say classic, Im not thinking Bugatti Royale. Something from the late 70,s early 80,s is more realistic. I could have bought a low mileage Mini (30th anniversary model iirc) for 2 grand a couple of months ago, but I wasn't thinking along these lines then - which is typical.  ::)
Quite like the idea of an old Fiat 500 actually, for some reason.  :)
Then again, theres motorbikes. Ducati 916, early RI/ Fireblade. Or even a 70,s Kawasaki that needs a bit of TLC.  :-\

Slightly off topic here, but worth mentioning.......  any investment will require some sort of security. Only recently there was an article on the BBC news website about the 70s & 80s cars being stolen and broken down for parts / sold on by unscrupulous kerb life.

On another note, a friend bought a Ferrari 15 years ago for £16k, spent thousands every year on maintenance and hardly ever drove it, then sold it last year for slightly less, so worth bearing in mind your investment can go up or down..... nothing's certain in this world.

Been looking to buy another Ferrari for a while as an investment/fine weather toy, and have just put in an offer for this one  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Ferrari-360-Spider-F1-2003-/111914210252?hash=item1a0e9b53cc:g:pmAAAOSwe7BWzHrb (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Ferrari-360-Spider-F1-2003-/111914210252?hash=item1a0e9b53cc:g:pmAAAOSwe7BWzHrb) - time will tell if he accepts my offer.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Andy B on 30 March 2016, 23:43:30
When I say classic, Im not thinking Bugatti Royale. Something from the late 70,s early 80,s is more realistic. I could have bought a low mileage Mini (30th anniversary model iirc) for 2 grand a couple of months ago, but I wasn't thinking along these lines then - which is typical.  ::)
Quite like the idea of an old Fiat 500 actually, for some reason.  :)
Then again, theres motorbikes. Ducati 916, early RI/ Fireblade. Or even a 70,s Kawasaki that needs a bit of TLC.  :-\

Slightly off topic here, but worth mentioning.......  any investment will require some sort of security. Only recently there was an article on the BBC news website about the 70s & 80s cars being stolen and broken down for parts / sold on by unscrupulous kerb life.

On another note, a friend bought a Ferrari 15 years ago for £16k, spent thousands every year on maintenance and hardly ever drove it, then sold it last year for slightly less, so worth bearing in mind your investment can go up or down..... nothing's certain in this world.

Been looking to buy another Ferrari for a while as an investment/fine weather toy, and have just put in an offer for this one  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Ferrari-360-Spider-F1-2003-/111914210252?hash=item1a0e9b53cc:g:pmAAAOSwe7BWzHrb (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Ferrari-360-Spider-F1-2003-/111914210252?hash=item1a0e9b53cc:g:pmAAAOSwe7BWzHrb) - time will tell if he accepts my offer.

New clutch needed in under 15000 miles  ???
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: dbug on 30 March 2016, 23:58:14
Be a while though, wouldn't intend more than 4k miles pa.  Anyway if investing that sort of money, you may need to protect that investment and the cost of a clutch is not a lot in the overall scheme of things  ;)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: johnnydog on 31 March 2016, 00:03:43
Having owned classic Triumphs for over 35 years, I see it all too often - someone has some spare cash and decides to buy a classic car. Having decided on make /model, they get one, but within 12 months or so the car is up for sale. Why? Having driven modern vehicles, the reality of driving a classic car doesn't quite seem as appealing once they've bought the car, with unseen corrosion showing, the frequent maintenance required and the general lack of 'mod cons'. Whilst they may remember driving cars in the 60's / 70's, the harsh reality is that cars have moved on leaps and bounds, and unless you class yourself as a fanatic of the make /model you buy, you may find that after the initial excitement of owning a classic car, the reality of ownership isn't quite as appealing and a bit of a culture shock when you go back to a classic car.
It's a bit like the person who decides to buy a sports car for weekends. Invariably, they end up for sale within a year or so, as the owner didn't use them enough or the car they bought wasn't as practical as they first thought.
The other point which should go without saying is to fully research the problem areas of the car you would like to buy; as with OOF, there is a plenty of information on the forums about what to look for, and take someone with you when you go to look. It's easy to see your 'dream' car through rose tinted glasses, and the friend with you may just pull back on the reins and prevent you buying a 'pup'. And don't buy the first one you see, unless it is the perfect car (which many turn out not to be).
And if you are not particularly handy with the spanners, who is going to maintain it for you? Finding someone familiar with your particular car who knows them sufficiently to lavish the care they may need, may not be on your doorstep (a bit like the Omega!).
Just be mindful of the availability of spares - who would have thought for instance that a Ford Granada from the 80's with a few corrosion issues would be a problem? The actual problem is that many of the panels are virtually unobtainable, and if found, cost a small fortune. Would you pay £135 for a washer bottle (no pump in that)? I was recently taking to a Ford Escort owner who had to pay that figure because of their rarity.
So it's worth doing your homework.....
Just a few thoughts for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 March 2016, 00:04:17
£80K is alot for an MR2 ???
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: dbug on 31 March 2016, 00:07:13
£80K is alot for an MR2 ???

Not an mr2 - you can get that "version" for under £20K.  Touch of jealousy perhaps?
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: dbug on 31 March 2016, 00:09:37
Having owned classic Triumphs for over 35 years, I see it all too often - someone has some spare cash and decides to buy a classic car. Having decided on make /model, they get one, but within 12 months or so the car is up for sale. Why? Having driven modern vehicles, the reality of driving a classic car doesn't quite seem as appealing once they've bought the car, with unseen corrosion showing, the frequent maintenance required and the general lack of 'mod cons'. Whilst they may remember driving cars in the 60's / 70's, the harsh reality is that cars have moved on leaps and bounds, and unless you class yourself as a fanatic of the make /model you buy, you may find that after the initial excitement of owning a classic car, the reality of ownership isn't quite as appealing and a bit of a culture shock when you go back to a classic car.
It's a bit like the person who decides to buy a sports car for weekends. Invariably, they end up for sale within a year or so, as the owner didn't use them enough or the car they bought wasn't as practical as they first thought.
The other point which should go without saying is to fully research the problem areas of the car you would like to buy; as with OOF, there is a plenty of information on the forums about what to look for, and take someone with you when you go to look. It's easy to see your 'dream' car through rose tinted glasses, and the friend with you may just pull back on the reins and prevent you buying a 'pup'. And don't buy the first one you see, unless it is the perfect car (which many turn out not to be).
And if you are not particularly handy with the spanners, who is going to maintain it for you? Finding someone familiar with your particular car who knows them sufficiently to lavish the care they may need, may not be on your doorstep (a bit like the Omega!).
Just be mindful of the availability of spares - who would have thought for instance that a Ford Granada from the 80's with a few corrosion issues would be a problem? The actual problem is that many of the panels are virtually unobtainable, and if found, cost a small fortune. Would you pay £135 for a washer bottle (no pump in that)? I was recently taking to a Ford Escort owner who had to pay that figure because of their rarity.
So it's worth doing your homework.....
Just a few thoughts for what it's worth.

Understand your comments, and generally you are correct.  I have a '67 TR4A, owned since late 70s, and completely restored by me at that time, now garaged but easily put back on the road.

Actually easier now than then in getting sensibly priced spares for the TR, including all body panels off original tooling.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: johnnydog on 31 March 2016, 00:18:31
I scrapped an SD1 for £50 many years ago... Now SD1 Vittesses are going for some serious money and the vast majority of parts (including all body panels) are available from Rimmer Bros....

Stupid Boy Pike.

My experience of the majority of reproduction parts from Rimmer Brothers is that the quality is poor. I'm not on my own in saying this. I know a lot of classic car owners who have had issues with parts and had to return them due to premature failure. NOS (new old stock), if you can find them, are always a far better bet.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: dbug on 31 March 2016, 00:27:38
I scrapped an SD1 for £50 many years ago... Now SD1 Vittesses are going for some serious money and the vast majority of parts (including all body panels) are available from Rimmer Bros....

Stupid Boy Pike.

My experience of the majority of reproduction parts from Rimmer Brothers is that the quality is poor. I'm not on my own in saying this. I know a lot of classic car owners who have had issues with parts and had to return them due to premature failure. NOS (new old stock), if you can find them, are always a far better bet.

Agree re Rimmers, some parts ok, some not.  However for TRs Pete Buckles managed to obtain almost all of the original TR tooling (with some investment by the TR Register), and those products are still available through Moss.

The TR Register is continually funding development of high quality repro parts, generally to original specs or better.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 March 2016, 00:34:07
Not at all... If I had that stuffed down the back of the sofa, it wouldn't be going on a Ferrari, and certainly not a dark blue one :-X

But different strokes and all that...
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: dbug on 31 March 2016, 00:48:58
Not at all... If I had that stuffed down the back of the sofa, it wouldn't be going on a Ferrari, and certainly not a dark blue one :-X

But different strokes and all that...

Well you haven't, and I have, so your comments are not really relevent.  Still you could always buy your choice of wheels on finance again. ;D
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 March 2016, 00:55:20
Not at all... If I had that stuffed down the back of the sofa, it wouldn't be going on a Ferrari, and certainly not a dark blue one :-X

But different strokes and all that...

Well you haven't, and I have, so your comments are not really relevent.  Still you could always buy your choice of wheels on finance again. ;D
The only cars I have financed have been for work so not sure what you're trying to insinuate ???
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: johnnydog on 31 March 2016, 01:12:48

[/quote]
However for TRs Pete Buckles managed to obtain almost all of the original TR tooling (with some investment by the TR Register)

The TR Register is continually funding development of high quality repro parts, generally to original specs or better.
[/quote]

TR's and Stags seem to have a strong following and as a result there is a good investment from the TR Register and Stag Owners Club into the remanufactured of good quality parts / panels.
Unfortunately, my Triumphs are probably the least favoured models; I have 2000's, 2.5PI 's and a 2500S, and since the 1980's, I have amassed a great number of now difficult to find new parts so it's very rare I need to 'buy in'; however one club member has recently heavily invested in the remanufacture of unobtainable panels, with good results. Without this, cars don't get restored, the owners loose interest and members leave the clubs and clubs can't continue without members.....
I did buy a Stag in 2000, which was a low mileage good example; the problem was I never used it properly.  Anything I did was with the Triumphs was with the 2000 /2500's, and the Stag just sat in the garage for 10 years, and in that time, I only did 1300 miles in it and that included the drive back from Oxford to Lancashire when I bought it! It now lives in Sydney, Australia!
It makes me wonder what will happen to the Omega as the supply of parts continues to dry up, and considering that it's unlikely that there will be any investment in the remanufacture of parts that are now unobtainable.
Which reiterates the point that it's easy to buy a classic car, but finding the time and use for one, is sometimes not as easy as it seems......
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 March 2016, 01:47:47
A hypothetical £10K does offer some more modern possibilities...

Mercedes Coupes are traditionally strong... The C126 is starting to rise... The C140 is next, and tidy ones can be bought for around £6K... OK, as you get newer, the cars become much more complicated which raises different issues, but given time, even mass produced cars find fortune in scarcity... Austin Allegro anyone?

A clean Mk3 Granada with nice mileage and history might be a sensible choice for investing a bit of time/effort/cash into... They won't be £1-2k for much longer ;)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 31 March 2016, 05:24:54
A very good choice Ferrari, they all no matter which model seem to appreciate in value, I know when I was looking for a V8 my budget was a mere £8,000 I looked at Monaros which had obviously been thrashed, but stumbled across the E430 which is truly immaculate, and remembered reading "buy the best example" which I did, so all I would say is keep all your options open ,there really are some wonderful vehicles out there some bargains can be had if you have the cash.Good luck with your search, incidentally my Mercedes was priced at £5995 I got it for £5250 & sold the mig for £750 so for £4500 I consider myself very lucky indeed.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: ianu on 31 March 2016, 10:49:43
Future classic - a lot of 70's & 80's stuff is now catching up and prices are very difficult to predict, and as suggested you could end up with a whole pile of iron oxide on the drive again. Cost to buy + improvements might not actually be worth the total value in the end.
Looking for something that is current(ish), but on the radar potentially.  Japanese coupes - the 350Z, or Toyotas. Go for an unmolested one and try and avoid a grey import if you can.
Personally, the Series 1 Mini Cooper S's I think will start to pick up a  following. Although not a classic Mini (in the original sense), they are great fun to drive, have all the modern trappings, a bucket full of tweaks and I don't think people will want to get rid of them. My son spent £5k on a 55 plate 68k with full history and it's an absolute hoot. Not perfect - but if you want a bit of a project, wouldn't take much to tinker with it it to get it spot on. Keep it mint and I reckon you'd get your money back eventually  ::)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: EMD on 31 March 2016, 13:29:30
I've probably looked every day now for the last year looking for a classic . I never thought my old 1.6 LS Capri would fetch what they are doing now , sold it for £200 about 12 years ago  ::) I would have bought another but prices are rising very fast even for a bare shell  :(
For some reason Triumph spitfire's are fetching stupid money at the minute . I did fancy a Moggy minor but was shocked at how small they were up close  ;D Saying that though a Triumph Stag parked up next to me the other day and surprised how small that was  :-\
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Andy B on 31 March 2016, 13:40:27
.... I did fancy a Moggy minor but was shocked at how small they were up close  ;D Saying that though a Triumph Stag parked up next to me the other day and surprised how small that was  :-\

cos all new cars are huge, cars grow a little each time there's a new model. Take a look at a MKI Golf ..... they're tiny compared with the mot recent model and doesn't weigh much different from my Smart

Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Viral_Jim on 31 March 2016, 13:51:07
Hmm, I think as others have said that most 80's and older stuff is well up ATM.

For capital appreciation I'd look to 90's/early 2000's. For £10k my pick would be a mk1 focus RS. Love em or hate em the focus is an iconic ford car in the UK and I can't see the RS as a bad investment. Plus (some suspension peculiarities aside) I would think they are still home mechanicable.

Something like this maybe? All depends how long you want to hang onto it.

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602191189114?atmobcid=soc4 (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602191189114?atmobcid=soc4)

In a totally different vein, what about a BMW 6 series? 4.0v8 coupe for £6-8k  8)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: EMD on 31 March 2016, 14:04:40
.... I did fancy a Moggy minor but was shocked at how small they were up close  ;D Saying that though a Triumph Stag parked up next to me the other day and surprised how small that was  :-\

cos all new cars are huge, cars grow a little each time there's a new model. Take a look at a MKI Golf ..... they're tiny compared with the mot recent model and doesn't weigh much different from my Smart

Thats right , look at the new Mini compared to the old classic and the Beetle .

Rover P5 would be on my list given a £10k budget  :)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Andy B on 31 March 2016, 14:26:35
...

Rover P5 would be on my list given a £10k budget  :)


Accordingto the price guide in a recent Practical Classics that's give you a few £grand change if you bought a 'mere' P5 saloon between £1000 & £8000 but a P5B Coupe tops at £15000 ... your £10000 would buy a 'Condition 2' car ie useable & MOTd but needs work  :o
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 March 2016, 15:07:51
P5 Coupes have always been far stronger money than the saloons...

As further suggestions, a nice 2.0 306 cabriolet in metallic red, blue or grey, the ST sedan or the Gti6 (if you can find a nice unabated one) would all be good potentials. Likewise the V6 406 Coupes...

Considered a very tidy 306 Cabriolet to replace the Omega, but ruled it out due to the distinct lack of MoT... But if looking for a budget keeper project, then at a mere 400 notes, what's not to like 8)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 31 March 2016, 15:42:23
Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9  8)  :y
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Nick W on 31 March 2016, 15:57:10
Anything I bought like this would have to be something I like, tidy and usable often - daily if possible. That rules out sportscars, although I'm not a huge fan anyway. Big saloons(that's big for the time) are the way to go for me. £10k on a P5 is the very bottom of that sort of market and will require further cash to keep it going. P6 Rovers are viable, and nice XJ6s should prove a good buy. My favourite would be a 2500 Triumph(manual with overdrive); a nice one would leave a useful amount of change and they've been slowly appreciating for a while. As the blueprint for the modern large saloon(strut front, IRS, 6 cylinder engine in a smart spacious and comfortable body) they still hold up in daily use. Should be cheaper to run than an Omega; similar fuel economy and dirt cheap consumables.


Proper investments would be better around the £5k mark, as they are going to be a risk although I doubt you'd actually lose money on a good example of anything. I think we've seen the rise of XRs, GTIs etc and they'll level off very soon for a number of years. Pre 80s cars will only continue to rise, and the good ones are well past any sort of spur of the moment buy.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: ianu on 31 March 2016, 16:04:19
Hmm, I think as others have said that most 80's and older stuff is well up ATM.

For capital appreciation I'd look to 90's/early 2000's. For £10k my pick would be a mk1 focus RS. Love em or hate em the focus is an iconic ford car in the UK and I can't see the RS as a bad investment. Plus (some suspension peculiarities aside) I would think they are still home mechanicable.

Something like this maybe? All depends how long you want to hang onto it.

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602191189114?atmobcid=soc4 (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602191189114?atmobcid=soc4)


In a totally different vein, what about a BMW 6 series? 4.0v8 coupe for £6-8k  8)

OR earlier 5 series - no idea what E number they are. Mk1 3 series - convertible even....
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Nick W on 31 March 2016, 16:15:51
Hmm, I think as others have said that most 80's and older stuff is well up ATM.

For capital appreciation I'd look to 90's/early 2000's. For £10k my pick would be a mk1 focus RS. Love em or hate em the focus is an iconic ford car in the UK and I can't see the RS as a bad investment. Plus (some suspension peculiarities aside) I would think they are still home mechanicable.

Something like this maybe? All depends how long you want to hang onto it.

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602191189114?atmobcid=soc4 (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602191189114?atmobcid=soc4)


In a totally different vein, what about a BMW 6 series? 4.0v8 coupe for £6-8k  8)

OR earlier 5 series - no idea what E number they are. Mk1 3 series - convertible even....


Rust has killed most of those, and engine failures many of the rest. Fragile trim doesn't help either. Good ones have been collectible for some time as a result. Equivalent Mercedes are also problematic; their bulletproof reputation proved to be an illusion once they fell into budget conscious hands. As soon you skimp on maintenance they become huge money pits.


None of this should be a surprise to anyone as we're talking about cars around their fortieth birthdays which is way past any reasonable life expectancy. Keeping them going should be considered a hobby with all that entails - anoraks, adenoids, welding spatter everywhere and a wife that's forgotten what you look like clean ;D
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 March 2016, 16:59:21
Not dissimilar to the Omega then ::)

Thinking that through is the Omega therefore the epitome of the 'modern classic' cliché :-\
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: BazaJT on 31 March 2016, 19:06:04
Taking a step down from jimmy944's Focus RS suggestion,as a long termer and if you can find an unmolested example how about first generation Mondeo ST,Focus ST170 or Fiesta ST?
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 31 March 2016, 19:31:10
How about an Aston Martin ? Plenty of low mileage recent models about £30,000 - £80,000 and prices on these will certainly climb much more class than any RS model
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: BazaJT on 31 March 2016, 21:05:21
Think you may find 30-80K just a smidge over the 10K budget mentioned :D ;D
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: baggers on 31 March 2016, 21:07:21
Ford prices are climbing nicely.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Olympia5776 on 31 March 2016, 22:04:16
My heart would say this  8) Just check the current prices  :o

(http://www.cgtrading.co.uk/media/images/13558136/p5.alfa-romeo-gtv-petrol-coupe.jpg)

But my head would say anything Ford and Rally related. Wait 'till the classic brigade start rallying Focus's.

(http://images.car.bauercdn.com/upload/27864/images/5fordfocus2014firstdetails.jpg)

Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: nemo on 01 April 2016, 18:46:54
nice looking 2.8 Capri on the bay 152032407180 is the number as I cant do links
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: BazaJT on 01 April 2016, 18:57:40
On some makes/models originality is everything whereas on others upgrades are the way to go.The more money you invest then history plays more of a role,not just a stamped up service books but invoices/receipts etc.Beware of fakes being touted as the real thing.Do your research and if needed spend a bit of cash to get a specialist in your chosen make/model to inspect any prospective purchase.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: krabi_one on 01 April 2016, 21:08:12
I would go with BMW as an investment , M34 m5
and E38 750
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Lagondanet on 01 April 2016, 22:15:59
I'll let you have my Beetle cabrio for £6k.  :y
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: johnnydog on 01 April 2016, 22:27:55
Anything I bought like this would have to be something I like, tidy and usable often - daily if possible. Big saloons (that's big for the time) are the way to go for me. My favourite would be a 2500 Triumph(manual with overdrive); a nice one would leave a useful amount of change and they've been slowly appreciating for a while. As the blueprint for the modern large saloon(strut front, IRS, 6 cylinder engine in a smart spacious and comfortable body) they still hold up in daily use. Should be cheaper to run than an Omega; similar fuel economy and dirt cheap consumables.

A man after my own heart..... :y
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: YZ250 on 02 April 2016, 12:03:19
My sister-in-law bought a Merecdes 450SLC about fifteen years ago and it was quite tidy at the time. She didn't buy it as an investment, which is just as well because it is now a rotting wreck on her driveway. It was used as her daily runner up until about four years ago but now needs one hell of a lot of work to restore it. I've never seen wheel arches so rusty, I reckon that you could get 22" rims in there without any modifications.  ;D


Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 02 April 2016, 13:43:26
I would go with BMW as an investment , M34 m5
and E38 750

The e38 750i,s are already steadily climbing in value. :y
I may well buy an e38 in the near future as a "weekend" type car. 3 - 4 thousand miles per year being the likely mileage.Its much more likely to be the 740i than a 750 though. Running costs of a 5.4 V12 are beyond horrendous.
An early M3 may be a sensible investment classic though.
Having said that, Im leaning towards guitars now, as they take up a lot less space, and need very little maintenance etc.  :)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: aaronjb on 02 April 2016, 19:38:56
An early M3 may be a sensible investment classic though.

E30s are stratospheric at this point; £40-80k
E36s are still affordable and are starting to climb in price; £10k up for a clean example
E46s are cheap as chips relatively speaking, £10k for a good example
E92s are too new to be a classic yet..
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Nick W on 02 April 2016, 20:19:13
I would go with BMW as an investment , M34 m5
and E38 750

The e38 750i,s are already steadily climbing in value. :y
I may well buy an e38 in the near future as a "weekend" type car. 3 - 4 thousand miles per year being the likely mileage.Its much more likely to be the 740i than a 750 though. Running costs of a 5.4 V12 are beyond horrendous.
An early M3 may be a sensible investment classic though.
Having said that, Im leaning towards guitars now, as they take up a lot less space, and need very little maintenance etc.  :)


On 3 to 4k miles a year, I doubt you'd notice much difference between a 740 and 750. All the bits inside and underneath are the same; only the engine really differs. And they're both big engines that don't need to be worked hard so I the economy won't be much different. Both are expensive to own, but you might find the 750 costs the same or even a bit less to buy too. Although I can't see much point in a 7-series, a manual 540 could briefly be fun in a very dull sort of way.


You've definitely missed the boat for M3s; early ones were always rare and expensive, E36s weren't rare and consequently suffered from the high I can just afford to buy it/can't drive it attrition rate like Cosworth Sierras. Later ones are much less special and are much less likely to be 'collectible.'
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: ianu on 03 April 2016, 11:23:59
A collage of past and present  8)
If only I still had the 3 on the right - rust got them all in the end. the Saab was my first car to cross 200k miles. Neither the Rover or the MG made it close to 100k.
The Volvo's done 238k, the Omega 188k  :o - together they're probably worth less than any current knackered model of any of the other 3  :-\ - best hang onto them for 20 years then  ;D
I'd love the chance to own them again, just not realistic  :'(

(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa344/ianu2/Car%20collage_zpszeukczvp.jpg) (http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/ianu2/media/Car%20collage_zpszeukczvp.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: aaronjb on 04 April 2016, 10:05:25
You've definitely missed the boat for M3s; early ones were always rare and expensive, E36s weren't rare and consequently suffered from the high I can just afford to buy it/can't drive it attrition rate like Cosworth Sierras. Later ones are much less special and are much less likely to be 'collectible.'

I really liked my E36 - if only I'd bought a manual not an SMG (because the SMG was dire!), it hadn't had a weeping diff seal and the interior hadn't seen better days it would have been a keeper ;D

The E46 had all the down sides of the E36 (crashy, harsh ride, SMGII not much better than SMG, the SMG pump shat itself, etc) and less of the character that made the E36 "cool".

E92 is just a really nice, big, mile muncher and seemed a lot less harsh, but I think I probably suit the E64 645ci better (more compliant ride, bigger, lardier .. like me) ;D
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Viral_Jim on 04 April 2016, 12:21:01
In a similar vein (ish) to the M3/BMW, I've always thought an alpina B10 has future classic potential.

OK so this one is a little over budget at £13,750, but looks a cracker! Strikes me as 80% of the M5 with significantly less than 80% of the expense. Also it has a Proper Gearbox  :P

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C702549# (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C702549#)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 04 April 2016, 13:31:17
Im glad I started this thread. It has turned out to be very interesting indeed. It could end up rivalling the "what have you done" if it carries on long enough.  :)
I came close to buying an e38 740i on the bay of fleas this morning. Nice looking car, final bid ended well within what I would have paid, but when I tried to ask the seller a couple of questions ebay informed me that this seller doesn't respond to questions !
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: ianu on 04 April 2016, 13:32:03
In a similar vein (ish) to the M3/BMW, I've always thought an alpina B10 has future classic potential.

OK so this one is a little over budget at £13,750, but looks a cracker! Strikes me as 80% of the M5 with significantly less than 80% of the expense. Also it has a Proper Gearbox  :P

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C702549# (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C702549#)

oooh - rare silver too  ::)
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Viral_Jim on 04 April 2016, 14:56:05
In a similar vein (ish) to the M3/BMW, I've always thought an alpina B10 has future classic potential.

OK so this one is a little over budget at £13,750, but looks a cracker! Strikes me as 80% of the M5 with significantly less than 80% of the expense. Also it has a Proper Gearbox  :P

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C702549# (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C702549#)

oooh - rare silver too  ::)

Considering only 221 B10 V8 were made in UK spec - yes, rare silver  :y
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 04 April 2016, 15:27:59
Im glad I started this thread. It has turned out to be very interesting indeed. It could end up rivalling the "what have you done" if it carries on long enough.  :)
I came close to buying an e38 740i on the bay of fleas this morning. Nice looking car, final bid ended well within what I would have paid, but when I tried to ask the seller a couple of questions ebay informed me that this seller doesn't respond to questions !
.     



I've had similar treatment from sellers on the bay , one blocked me from bidding because I asked too many questions , I e-mailed them & told them where they could put the vehicle, may need some lubrication.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: dbug on 09 April 2016, 16:33:12

Been looking to buy another Ferrari for a while as an investment/fine weather toy, and have just put in an offer for this one  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Ferrari-360-Spider-F1-2003-/111914210252?hash=item1a0e9b53cc:g:pmAAAOSwe7BWzHrb (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Ferrari-360-Spider-F1-2003-/111914210252?hash=item1a0e9b53cc:g:pmAAAOSwe7BWzHrb) - time will tell if he accepts my offer.

A very good choice Ferrari, they all no matter which model seem to appreciate in value, I know when I was looking for a V8 my budget was a mere £8,000 I looked at Monaros which had obviously been thrashed, but stumbled across the E430 which is truly immaculate, and remembered reading "buy the best example" which I did, so all I would say is keep all your options open ,there really are some wonderful vehicles out there some bargains can be had if you have the cash.Good luck with your search, incidentally my Mercedes was priced at £5995 I got it for £5250 & sold the mig for £750 so for £4500 I consider myself very lucky indeed.

Drove down to Hampshire last weekend to have a good look and a road test of the 360 Spider.  Have to say it looked and drove first rate, couldn't fault it.  Unfortunately not yet come to an agreement on price, stalemate, and not hopeful at the moment.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 09 April 2016, 17:53:33
That's a shame, don't want to pry but how far apart in cash are you ? Only there have been record prices going on  some  fairly non descript classics IE Ford Capri ,with a Ferrari different class altogether ,personally don't think you could lose.Hope you can work something out.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 10 April 2016, 15:53:56
I was helping a mate out working on his BMW 2002 yesterday. I had to keep reminding myself it was a 1970's car. So much better than the BL and French sh1te that I remember from that time. That might be one to watch.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: STEMO on 10 April 2016, 15:56:49
Im glad I started this thread. It has turned out to be very interesting indeed. It could end up rivalling the "what have you done" if it carries on long enough.  :)
I came close to buying an e38 740i on the bay of fleas this morning. Nice looking car, final bid ended well within what I would have paid, but when I tried to ask the seller a couple of questions ebay informed me that this seller doesn't respond to questions !
Only another 822 pages to go.  ;D
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 05omegav6 on 10 April 2016, 16:36:49
I was helping a mate out working on his BMW 2002 yesterday. I had to keep reminding myself it was a 1970's car. So much better than the BL and French sh1te that I remember from that time. That might be one to watch.
They were always popular with those that know... I suspect nice ones are pretty thin on the ground :-\
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 10 April 2016, 16:47:46
I was helping a mate out working on his BMW 2002 yesterday. I had to keep reminding myself it was a 1970's car. So much better than the BL and French sh1te that I remember from that time. That might be one to watch.

2002..... :y

2002 tii... :y :y :y :y. 130 BHP back in the early seventies. Didn't weigh much either. :y
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 10 April 2016, 17:05:50
I had a drive in one of those in the late 70,s. It seemed leagues ahead of most other cars that were around at the time.
A decent one went for £17k at auction recently.

http://angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auctions/results/results-from-saturday-23-january-2016/1975-bmw-2002-tii/
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 10 April 2016, 17:06:38
Im glad I started this thread. It has turned out to be very interesting indeed. It could end up rivalling the "what have you done" if it carries on long enough.  :)
I came close to buying an e38 740i on the bay of fleas this morning. Nice looking car, final bid ended well within what I would have paid, but when I tried to ask the seller a couple of questions ebay informed me that this seller doesn't respond to questions !
Only another 822 pages to go.  ;D

You youngsters can be so impatient.  ;D
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: aaronjb on 11 April 2016, 10:22:18
I was helping a mate out working on his BMW 2002 yesterday. I had to keep reminding myself it was a 1970's car. So much better than the BL and French sh1te that I remember from that time. That might be one to watch.

I thought 2002's had already had a significant rise in value in recent years?

They are gorgeous little cars, though.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: dbug on 13 April 2016, 01:56:48
That's a shame, don't want to pry but how far apart in cash are you ? Only there have been record prices going on  some  fairly non descript classics IE Ford Capri ,with a Ferrari different class altogether ,personally don't think you could lose.Hope you can work something out.

A fair amount - its up to him now, it'll be a cash sale for him.  Seen another couple, one of which may be worth a look.  I'm in no rush though, want the right car for the right money.

He had a nice Dino there, same as my '72 one - £330,000 !!  Paid £10K for mine late 70s.
Title: Re: Buying an investment classic.
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 13 April 2016, 07:12:42
I'm sure something will turn up , as I said before there really are lots of cars out there.