Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 25 June 2016, 12:10:12
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It seems to me that Britain is suggesting we can implement article 50 'at a time of our choosing'.Perhaps triggering article 50 When a new prime minister is elected (as voted by members of the Conservative party only)......or even after a general election is called.
The European view is somewhat different.......You voted to leave the EU so either 'piss or get off the pot'.
I have to say that I can see their point of view. The uncertainty is affecting their markets as much as ours.
Let's get on with it.
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Isn't it great?
We vote to leave, but choose when. Welcome to the new DK - the Disunited Kingdom or Minor Britain, either will do
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My guess is if we piss about for too long the other 27 countries will vote and then implement article 50 for us.
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:( I have the horrible feeling they will wreak a terrible revenge on us , the mayor of Calais is already making noises about withdrawing the French police from around the port area , leaving us to fight the buggers off when they get to Dover , this could get nasty :(
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:( I have the horrible feeling they will wreak a terrible revenge on us , the mayor of Calais is already making noises about withdrawing the French police from around the port area , leaving us to fight the buggers off when they get to Dover , this could get nasty :(
Yep. There will be tears before bedtime.
Let us hope that the transition is temporary and (relatively) painless.
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My guess is if we piss about for too long the other 27 countries will vote and then implement article 50 for us.
And we will.
Here's my prediction for the next 12months:
For the next three months we get to watch the Conservative party tear itself apart electing a new leader.
Whichever ambitious opportunist gets the job will spend the first month publicly congratulating everyone how it's going to be great.
His second month will consist of him realising that he's grabbed a poisoned chalice, and that nobody has any idea of what to do.
There will six months of allegiances, bust ups, whinging, and posturing but no useful work being done. Typical politics.
And then the EU will demand a final exit date. And having used up whatever goodwill we might currently have, any negotiations won't go well for us.
Short term, say 2 years, nothing much will change.
Medium term, 2 to 10 years, we're oppsed.
Long term after that, who knows? We might come out of it with a new King, strong government, healthy economy, effective relations with the rest of the world and an endless supply of sparkling rhubarb wine to celebrate with. Of those, only one has any certainty.
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There seems to be a general air of apathy about what and who is planning/ or what they are going to do to us...So why not be a bit more positive and make some contingency plans as to what we can do to 'them' Think the words I'm looking for could be like...grow a pair or a backbone,stand your ground,don't be so bloody weak willed,and remember do unto others before they do unto you. After all they are just a bunch of corrupt cowardly pussies,that have used their powers to hold this country back, and why?? because they hate the sight of us,always have and always will. It's all about the money, as we are the second largest contributor to what really is in essence a collection of countries with failing economies...with exception to a very few of course..so let's see how much muscle we have if we have if the need comes to push back. >:( :y I have a comprehensive collection of hand gestures that for a small fee I will stand on the white cliffs of Dover and point them in the general direction of our aggressors...as long as it ain't raining :P ::)
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It seems to me that Britain is suggesting we can implement article 50 'at a time of our choosing'.Perhaps triggering article 50 When a new prime minister is elected (as voted by members of the Conservative party only)......or even after a general election is called.
The European view is somewhat different.......You voted to leave the EU so either 'piss or get off the pot'.
I have to say that I can see their point of view. The uncertainty is affecting their markets as much as ours.
Let's get on with it.
The UK has had a Referendum, thats nothing to do with Brussels or the EU, its an internal affair. Brussels can involved on the time scales after only after the UK says 'OK we Officially want to be out of the EU now'.
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It is up to the Government of the day to decide when to invoke Article 50, and clearly it is in the UK's interests to do so when it suits us and not the rest of the EU. We now call the shots on the timing, which will no doubt irritate many such as Juncker, but since the rest of the EU has, in terms of trade, everything to gain by ensuring a smooth Brexit, protecting, for example, Germany's exports of luxury cars to the UK, I expect the majority European politicians will act in a grown up manner, if only to protect their own interests. :y
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There seems to be a general air of apathy about what and who is planning/ or what they are going to do to us...So why not be a bit more positive and make some contingency plans as to what we can do to 'them' Think the words I'm looking for could be like...grow a pair or a backbone,stand your ground,don't be so bloody weak willed,and remember do unto others before they do unto you. After all they are just a bunch of corrupt cowardly pussies,that have used their powers to hold this country back, and why?? because they hate the sight of us,always have and always will. It's all about the money, as we are the second largest contributor to what really is in essence a collection of countries with failing economies...with exception to a very few of course..so let's see how much muscle we have if we have if the need comes to push back. >:( :y I have a comprehensive collection of hand gestures that for a small fee I will stand on the white cliffs of Dover and point them in the general direction of our aggressors...as long as it ain't raining :P ::)
Here here, carried and 2nd, we have stood at Dover on many occasions and watch Europe, self implode, we can do the same again, then go in, again and sweep up the mess, and start all over again 'a railway carriage in Versailles" alway seems a good area to sign treaty's.
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It is up to the Government of the day to decide when to invoke Article 50, and clearly it is in the UK's interests to do so when it suits us and not the rest of the EU. We now call the shots on the timing, which will no doubt irritate many such as Juncker, but since the rest of the EU has, in terms of trade, everything to gain by ensuring a smooth Brexit, protecting, for example, Germany's exports of luxury cars to the UK, I expect the majority European politicians will act in a grown up manner, if only to protect their own interests. :y
I'm not sure about that.
I imagine that the people who voted to leave want it to happen sooner rather than later
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It is up to the Government of the day to decide when to invoke Article 50, and clearly it is in the UK's interests to do so when it suits us and not the rest of the EU. We now call the shots on the timing, which will no doubt irritate many such as Juncker, but since the rest of the EU has, in terms of trade, everything to gain by ensuring a smooth Brexit, protecting, for example, Germany's exports of luxury cars to the UK, I expect the majority European politicians will act in a grown up manner, if only to protect their own interests. :y
I'm not sure about that.
I imagine that the people who voted to leave want it to happen sooner rather than later
Indeed, but better to take stock and approach it systematically than to rush headlong into a complete farce...
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My guess is if we piss about for too long the other 27 countries will vote and then implement article 50 for us.
And we will.
Here's my prediction for the next 12months:
For the next three months we get to watch the Conservative party tear itself apart electing a new leader.
Whichever ambitious opportunist gets the job will spend the first month publicly congratulating everyone how it's going to be great.
His second month will consist of him realising that he's grabbed a poisoned chalice, and that nobody has any idea of what to do.
There will six months of allegiances, bust ups, whinging, and posturing but no useful work being done. Typical politics.
And then the EU will demand a final exit date. And having used up whatever goodwill we might currently have, any negotiations won't go well for us.
Short term, say 2 years, nothing much will change.
Medium term, 2 to 10 years, we're oppsed.
Long term after that, who knows? We might come out of it with a new King, strong government, healthy economy, effective relations with the rest of the world and an endless supply of sparkling rhubarb wine to celebrate with. Of those, only one has any certainty.
You missed one bit. Then that leader of the Tories will get the boot. The next election with a new party leader will be fought on a platform of overturning the still in limbo exit. We will go back having never actually left but on worse terms than we had. They have already worsened a bit.
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It seems to me that Britain is suggesting we can implement article 50 'at a time of our choosing'.Perhaps triggering article 50 When a new prime minister is elected (as voted by members of the Conservative party only)......or even after a general election is called.
The European view is somewhat different.......You voted to leave the EU so either 'piss or get off the pot'.
I have to say that I can see their point of view. The uncertainty is affecting their markets as much as ours.
Let's get on with it.
The UK has had a Referendum, thats nothing to do with Brussels or the EU, its an internal affair. Brussels can involved on the time scales after only after the UK says 'OK we Officially want to be out of the EU now'.
Some in Brussels are saying the fact that we have already voted to leave is enough to start the clock.
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My guess is if we piss about for too long the other 27 countries will vote and then implement article 50 for us.
And we will.
Here's my prediction for the next 12months:
For the next three months we get to watch the Conservative party tear itself apart electing a new leader.
Whichever ambitious opportunist gets the job will spend the first month publicly congratulating everyone how it's going to be great.
His second month will consist of him realising that he's grabbed a poisoned chalice, and that nobody has any idea of what to do.
There will six months of allegiances, bust ups, whinging, and posturing but no useful work being done. Typical politics.
And then the EU will demand a final exit date. And having used up whatever goodwill we might currently have, any negotiations won't go well for us.
Short term, say 2 years, nothing much will change.
Medium term, 2 to 10 years, we're oppsed.
Long term after that, who knows? We might come out of it with a new King, strong government, healthy economy, effective relations with the rest of the world and an endless supply of sparkling rhubarb wine to celebrate with. Of those, only one has any certainty.
You missed one bit. Then that leader of the Tories will get the boot. The next election with a new party leader will be fought on a platform of overturning the still in limbo exit. We will go back having never actually left but on worse terms than we had. They have already worsened a bit.
My post was already turning into too much of a rant, so I omitted that part. It will be one of the medium term problems.
This is going to be a difficult process, with many unpopular decisions to be made. That will require strong leadership and the political clout to enforce it. So far nobody has shown any. That's the main reason that the Leave campaign convinced me to vote Remain.
I hope that I'm wrong about all this, and that our government(and the rest of us!) can make it work.
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It is up to the Government of the day to decide when to invoke Article 50, and clearly it is in the UK's interests to do so when it suits us and not the rest of the EU. We now call the shots on the timing, which will no doubt irritate many such as Juncker, but since the rest of the EU has, in terms of trade, everything to gain by ensuring a smooth Brexit, protecting, for example, Germany's exports of luxury cars to the UK, I expect the majority European politicians will act in a grown up manner, if only to protect their own interests. :y
European politicians have to answer to their own electorates. Those are all complaining about immigration, taxes, job losses, declining health care, terrorism, crime, globalisation, EU bureaucracy, fat cat industrialists, the reduction of social programs, etc etc. Does any of that sound remotely familiar? Both France and Germany(the powers in the EU now that we've resigned the third position) are far more overtly patriotic than we are which affects their politics. By voting to leave, we have deliberately removed the barrier to nationalist European politics that is at the heart of the EU.
This is a brave thing to do. I hope it works.
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So the Foreign Ministers from the '6 Founding Members' met in Germany today to discuss the impact of Brexit. A powerful group within the club it seems and I wonder what the other 21 countries think about this. ::)
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So the Foreign Ministers from the '6 Founding Members' met in Germany today to discuss the impact of Brexit. A powerful group within the club it seems and I wonder what the other 21 countries think about this. ::)
Hope they enjoyed the tea and sandwiches...
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Apparently more than a million people[so far]have signed a petition to try and force another referendum,as obviously we didn't get the answer right the first time round :o Best out of three anyone? :D ;D ;D
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Apparently more than a million people[so far]have signed a petition to try and force another referendum,as obviously we didn't get the answer right the first time round :o Best out of three anyone? :D ;D ;D
Yes. That is crazy. :-\
I voted to remain but I'm happy to accept the result.
Might work in the land of the 'man skirt' though. ::) ;)
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Yep crazy..do we keep asking until those who are bad loosers get their required answer..com on,,,its simple,you make up your mind then you put your little cross againt your choice,,if you get the result you want then great,if not then stop crying,,join in and get on with making us great britain once more,its called democracy for gods sake ;D ;D
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So the Foreign Ministers from the '6 Founding Members' met in Germany today to discuss the impact of Brexit. A powerful group within the club it seems and I wonder what the other 21 countries think about this. ::)
Hope they enjoyed the tea and sandwiches...
I expect they paid for them this time. :-X :y
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Couldn't agree more flyer.I voted out so the result was agood one as far as I'm concerned.Had it gone the other way then I'd have accepted that as the will of the majority.
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It is interesting to me that the attitude of the losing 'Remainers' shows how much of our democracy this country has already lost, as they now wish to overturn a democratic vote in order to ensure that we remain embedded in an undemocratic system. I also strongly object to their attitude that clearly those who voted leave are uneducated idiots, presumably incapable of objective analysis. >:(
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I too voted to leave and was surprised that was actually the result as I expected remain to win, and had remain won then I would have accepted the result and just carried on.
It`s the petulant attitude to some of the remain brigade that really gets my goat, the vote was cast, accept it and move on.
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I think the idea of a rerun stems from the fact that Farage and Hannan have admitted that they are lying bastards, and most of the stuff they promised was just fanciful.
A rerun is not the answer, perhaps a public stoning? :-\
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Apparently more than a million people[so far]have signed a petition to try and force another referendum,as obviously we didn't get the answer right the first time round :o Best out of three anyone? :D ;D ;D
Well over 2 Million now and signatures being added at a rate in excess of 150,000 per Hour according to the BBC.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
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I believe there's also one for London to be declared independent from the rest of the UK and apply to remain. ;D
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I think the idea of a rerun stems from the fact that Farage and Hannan have admitted that they are lying bastards, and most of the stuff they promised was just fanciful.
A rerun is not the answer, perhaps a public stoning? :-\
Cant believe they would lie, would they?, good news is the NHS are getting the £350 Million they we currently give the EU every week. :y :y :y :y
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/05/14/97905329_BRISTOL_ENGLAND_-_MAY_14__Conservative_MP_Boris_Johnson_speaks_as_he_visits_Bristol_on_May-large_trans++KjggCdpvXjoraOzAlyzu1MOSRhbr0ZABex7Vh5dC_YU.jpg)
Ah, Oh, wait a minuet, oh no, :'( :'( :'( :'( >:(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnqr1FDK8QI
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I think the idea of a rerun stems from the fact that Farage and Hannan have admitted that they are lying bastards, and most of the stuff they promised was just fanciful.
A rerun is not the answer, perhaps a public stoning? :-\
I thought Evan Davis had Hannan all over the place on Newsnight.
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Quite frankly, if anyone decided to vote on the basis of what either side threatened or promised, their decision was ill-judged.:y
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We could start 2.petitions up...those for remain to sign and one for leave to sign.so if all of those who voted the first time kept to their original choice then we would be in the same boat,,,,what a load of rolliccks from bad loosers.. ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D
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We could start 2.petitions up...those for remain to sign and one for leave to sign.so if all of those who voted the first time kept to their original choice then we would be in the same boat,,,,what a load of rolliccks from bad loosers.. ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D
The petition the BBC are on about, is not about losing the EU Referendum, its was started over a Month ago, as to aid guidelines should the potential voting results be marginal one.
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Some MP's are calling for a vote as to whether article 50 should be implemented. As most Mp's are in the remain camp, that would be 'interesting'. It's not legally binding, remember ;D
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That thick moron David Lammy has called for parliament to ignore the referendum and stay in. Words fail me. ::)
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I get the feeling that the free movement of people is going through a subtle change.
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There is no mechanism for the remaining 27 countries to boot us out of the EU. It is up to the UK to invoke Article 50, and until that happens we remain full members with full rights, and full obligations. The only way they could expel us would be for all 27 other countries to invoke article 50 themselves leaving just us in the EU.
I was a remainiac, but accept the result of the referendum. The only way I think a second referendum could possibly be justified would be if the EU came back to us and said something like we've had a rethink - you can have border controls, limits on free movement, exemption from future EU laws, primacy of UK courts over the ECJ blah blah. That would address most of the issues British people have with the EU, and remove the endless aggro that is going to go on for years when we do Brexit. However, the EU won't do that - they had their chance when Dave went to them before he called the referendum and basically blanked him.
So it's now up to the UK to invoke Article 50, and Junker et al can go swivel if he thinks he can affect the timing. Personally I think the timing will be done to best suit the Conservative party. They'll want us to be out before the 2020 general election, but not too long before it in-case things go pear-shaped rapidly. GE is May2020, so say they want to be out 6-9 months before that - Oct2019 after everyone has had their last Summer Holiday in Majorca/Crete/Cyprus. That means invoking Article 50 in Oct2017.
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There is no mechanism for the remaining 27 countries to boot us out of the EU. It is up to the UK to invoke Article 50, and until that happens we remain full members with full rights, and full obligations. The only way they could expel us would be for all 27 other countries to invoke article 50 themselves leaving just us in the EU.
I was a remainiac, but accept the result of the referendum. The only way I think a second referendum could possibly be justified would be if the EU came back to us and said something like we've had a rethink - you can have border controls, limits on free movement, exemption from future EU laws, primacy of UK courts over the ECJ blah blah. That would address most of the issues British people have with the EU, and remove the endless aggro that is going to go on for years when we do Brexit. However, the EU won't do that - they had their chance when Dave went to them before he called the referendum and basically blanked him.
So it's now up to the UK to invoke Article 50, and Junker et al can go swivel if he thinks he can affect the timing. Personally I think the timing will be done to best suit the Conservative party. They'll want us to be out before the 2020 general election, but not too long before it in-case things go pear-shaped rapidly. GE is May2020, so say they want to be out 6-9 months before that - Oct2019 after everyone has had their last Summer Holiday in Majorca/Crete/Cyprus. That means invoking Article 50 in Oct2017.
October 2017 :o :o :o :o
The French want it done and dusted by next Thursday. :D ;)
Seriously though, I can't imagine the rest of Europe would allow us to take the piss to that extent.
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I think it will be invoked before the end of this year. We will see. :y
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There is no mechanism for the remaining 27 countries to boot us out of the EU. It is up to the UK to invoke Article 50, and until that happens we remain full members with full rights, and full obligations. The only way they could expel us would be for all 27 other countries to invoke article 50 themselves leaving just us in the EU.
I was a remainiac, but accept the result of the referendum. The only way I think a second referendum could possibly be justified would be if the EU came back to us and said something like we've had a rethink - you can have border controls, limits on free movement, exemption from future EU laws, primacy of UK courts over the ECJ blah blah. That would address most of the issues British people have with the EU, and remove the endless aggro that is going to go on for years when we do Brexit. However, the EU won't do that - they had their chance when Dave went to them before he called the referendum and basically blanked him.
So it's now up to the UK to invoke Article 50, and Junker et al can go swivel if he thinks he can affect the timing. Personally I think the timing will be done to best suit the Conservative party. They'll want us to be out before the 2020 general election, but not too long before it in-case things go pear-shaped rapidly. GE is May2020, so say they want to be out 6-9 months before that - Oct2019 after everyone has had their last Summer Holiday in Majorca/Crete/Cyprus. That means invoking Article 50 in Oct2017.
October 2017 :o :o :o :o
The French want it done and dusted by next Thursday. :D ;)
Seriously though, I can't imagine the rest of Europe would allow us to take the piss to that extent.
They can't, legally, stop us.
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I guess they'll just have to send in the German army to persuade us...
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We've had a referendum, our people voted to leave. We tell the EU we want to leave by invoking article 50. We don't have to do it straight away. Our government could say that they've decided to take no notice of the referendum.
It's all in our hands, and, finally, we will do what we want.
The financial and currency markets can punish us, but the EU can't.
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October 2017 :o :o :o :o
The French want it done and dusted by next Thursday. :D ;)
Seriously though, I can't imagine the rest of Europe would allow us to take the piss to that extent.
There is nothing they can do to stop us taking the pi55 if we decide to.
Negotiations can start before we invoke Art50 if everyone agrees. I see no reason for the UK not to agree to this. Up to the EU to make their decision if they want to. Nothing much is going to happen before we get a new PM, and that won't be till October 2016. I think the govt will want to implement a new Pre-Brexit Budget too, and that'll be in mid March.
There is also the small matter that the UK only has a small number of suitably qualified negotiators - apparently less than 30 - when its likely we'll need around 500.
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Apparently it has been explored whether just an informal discussion of Brexit by David Cameron at Tueday's Council of Europe would constitute him invoking Article 50 verbally. ::) EU lawyers have been consulted and it has to be in writing from the British Government to the President of the Council of Europe Donald Tusk. ;)
The article on the BBC brought up the bizarre situation where the British Government has to defend it's position in the ECJ. :D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36631518
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Apparently it has been explored whether just an informal discussion of Brexit by David Cameron at Tueday's Council of Europe would constitute him invoking Article 50 verbally. ::) EU lawyers have been consulted and it has to be in writing from the British Government to the President of the Council of Europe Donald Tusk. ;)
The article on the BBC brought up the bizarre situation where the British Government has to defend it's position in the ECJ. :D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36631518
The wording is ambiguous.
I really don't think we can take as long as we wish. It is open to interpretation.
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I'm not going to post much but...
A referendum is just an opinion poll, there is no obligation to follow through and it could indeed be ignored - I hope not, despite feeling the result was not the right one for the U.K. Mainly because I researched the leave campaign and could find not one single element of truth!
The petition is to follow EU guidelines (::)) because the majority was so slim and the turnout under 75%
Scarily, a massive surge in UK searches of "what is the EU" yesterday gives cause for doubt over whether people even know what they were voting on! That coupled with the pro Brexit people who have come forwards and admitted they have made a mistake :-X
All I know is that I fear for the future...
I should add, I still don't understand why 16 and 17 year olds weren't given the opportunity to vote like they were for the Scottish referendum.
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Prof Brian Cox has wondered on Twitter about what will happen if more than 17.4 million people sign the petition! :D
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Scarily, a massive surge in UK searches of "what is the EU" yesterday gives cause for doubt over whether people even know what they were voting on! That coupled with the pro Brexit people who have come forwards and admitted they have made a mistake :-X
Ah, the old 'Manoeuvre, Mirror, Signal' routine, closely followed by the 'What happened there then, didn't see that one coming' excuse.
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It is in the EU's interest to have an orderly exit for the UK. Merkel has suggested EU and UK take their time and get it right. This makes sense as the EU sells much more to us than we do to them. Our balance of payments are in surplus with ROW, it is trade with EU that causes our worrying overall balance of payments deficit.
We are Germany's 3rd biggest export market after the US and France.
German export and import trade figures can be viewed here: https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/NationalEconomyEnvironment/ForeignTrade/TradingPartners/Tables/OrderRankGermanyTradingPartners.pdf?__blob=publicationFile (https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/NationalEconomyEnvironment/ForeignTrade/TradingPartners/Tables/OrderRankGermanyTradingPartners.pdf?__blob=publicationFile)
Their positive trade balance (exports - imports) with UK in 2015 was €127 612 593 000 €127.6bn, which they won't want to jeopardise.
Dr Richard North with his Flexcit plan is the only coherent, considered one I have seen:
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfEo_TNllk4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfEo_TNllk4)
429 page .pdf: http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf (http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf)
He explains how EEA is the only practical route for a 2 year negotiating window, with the longer term aim of an EFTA agreement. It took Switzerland 16 years to negotiate their EFTA!
Before we press the article 50 button it makes sense to have pre-article 50 discussions to outline the scope of the talks and setting a schedule. The only country that will probably be awkward is France and that won't be personal as their politicians try to shaft everybody.
I think the onus is on the UK to press the Article 50 button when we are ready. Once the preliminary talks have finished I don't see any point in dragging our heels.
I get the impression that the EU will be glad to see the back of us, so they can get on unfettered with building the EUSSR, which they need to do as the Euro is not sustainable without fiscal transfers, joint-and-severable pooled sovereign bonds and sovereign debt write-offs for those above 120% of GDP. Now we can no longer be tapped up to contribute our share, Germany will have to be the main source of supplying many of the Euro countries with lots of free money, think PIIGS plus France. After German reunification and tax rises, the German taxpayers don't think it is a swell idea that they are the free money providers but I'm sure war guilt will prevail again. However, if they don't then the Euro can't work and survive. Common taxation to remove tax competition will also be introduced which will screw Ireland's and Malta's low corporation tax based economies, but more free German money should smooth that over and likewise transition rates and lower taxes in very high tax countries like France (56% of GDP) will be solved with even more free German money. I'm sure the good old German taxpayer won't mind having pay an extra €3bn in fees to replace ours and another round or ten of ever higher EU unification taxes. ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
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According to reports today, Nicola Sturgeon has been told by the European Commission that the EU negotiates with member states and not regions of member states. Ouch!
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??? It's going to take some very big politicians to step up to the plate and get this sorted out , do we have any of the stature required ? Farage and his ilk are already backpedalling as if they never really expected to win and now find themselves in a " oh s**t" what do we do now situation :o
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According to reports today, Nicola Sturgeon has been told by the European Commission that the EU negotiates with member states and not regions of member states. Ouch!
Yes, just in case the Catalans are listening... ;D
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I read that some MPs are saying the government should go against the vote and stay in the EU
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I read that some MPs are saying the government should go against the vote and stay in the EU
They could do that, the referendum is a public poll after all, it would be suicidal for any Government to not to take action after its told the public to vote on something though.
Its not unheard of though, its been done in other Countries, they keep having a public vote on the same theme until they get the desired result.
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A theory government rejects the vote to leave then calls a general election and start all the shit again
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They wont ignore or reject the vote. They could however delay invoking article 50 long enough for people to forget exactly who voted for what, and then water the thing down to keep us half in, half out.
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A theory government rejects the vote to leave then calls a general election and start all the shit again
Messy, but possible, probably more do able in the 'New' PM seriously delays triggering Article 50, talks with EU fall down or dont even happen, more shite goes on, and an early general election is called.
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A theory government rejects the vote to leave then calls a general election and start all the shit again
Messy, but possible, probably more do able in the 'New' PM seriously delays triggering Article 50, talks with EU fall down or dont even happen, more shite goes on, and an early general election is called.
Except we have the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 to deal with first. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/section/2/enacted
The government cannot call an early general election unless either 66.6% of MP's agree, or they repeal the act, or there is a vote of no confidence.
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A theory government rejects the vote to leave then calls a general election and start all the shit again
Messy, but possible, probably more do able in the 'New' PM seriously delays triggering Article 50, talks with EU fall down or dont even happen, more shite goes on, and an early general election is called.
Except we have the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 to deal with first. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/section/2/enacted
The government cannot call an early general election unless either 66.6% of MP's agree, or they repeal the act, or there is a vote of no confidence.
Well thats ok, because we wont have 66.6 MP's soon, if they keep resigning. :D
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Well thats ok, because we wont have 66.6 MP's soon, if they keep resigning. :D
Nope - read the act. Para 2.1.b says
if the motion is passed on a division, the number of members who vote in favour of the motion is a number equal to or greater than two thirds of the number of seats in the House (including vacant seats).
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An awful lot of people, inc. Nicola Sturgeon, are saying they are going to do this and that and the other. Have they actually checked the law governing these things? I very much doubt that half the things which have been proposed/threatened have any basis in law.
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An awful lot of people, inc. Nicola Sturgeon, are saying they are going to do this and that and the other. Have they actually checked the law governing these things? I very much doubt that half the things which have been proposed/threatened have any basis in law.
Apparently NS can walk on water.
According to her logic the 1.6 million 'remain' voters in Scotland have the power to make the 17.4million 'leave' voters in England and Wales also 'remain'.
She'll have trouble making that fly.
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Mind you with a 62/38 remain bias north of Hadrian's wall I can see why the Scots are pissed*
* the definition of 'pissed' being angry or annoyed and not intoxicated with alcohol. ::) ::) ::) :D ;)
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The Scots need to understand it was a referendum of the British nation, of which they are a relatively small number. They had their referendum on whether they wanted to remain in the UK and they voted to stay.
The EU referendum had already been announced and they knew the result of that could mean the UK leaving the EU but they still voted to stay in the UK.
Bed has been made, now lie down on it and shut up. ::) ;D
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What I find amazing is how many of the 'remainers' have spat their dummies out....Cameron resigns because the vote didn't go his way
Case of, I'm off coz I carnt be bothered with the hard work now required! .Which makes me wonder if he really wanted to stay in just for an easy life! Protest marches in London, etc/etc.
Now, if the vote had gone the other way I carnt see the 'outers' MP's resigning, the 'outers' having protest marches......
Just my view on it................
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BREAKING NEWS: Nicola Crankie is talking shite. There is no mechanism for Holyrood to alter anything, no matter how pissed off they are. Well......they are in charge of bus timetables in Edinburgh, I suppose. They could alter those.
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Mind you with a 62/38 remain bias north of Hadrian's wall I can see why the Scots are pissed*
* the definition of 'pissed' being angry or annoyed whilst intoxicated with alcohol. ::) ::) ::) :D ;)
Fixed
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What is incredibly damaging is self interest people like Nicola Sturgeon knee jerk reaction of crankying up a referendum. In fact the vested interests manipulating that Britain never leaves the Eu might just overcook things. For example getting Moodys to suggest a downrating of the economy. Remember that as of today NOTHING has actually happened. If or when Article 50 gets formally invoked then might be the time. In the meantime the exchange rate is shite, the economy is literally being talked down by trash talk.
What a mess. You have three parties that do not represent leave Britain. Conservatives with a deflated leader - in fact leaderless. Have we seen anything of Osborne talking up the economy as he should in difficult times. Err no Why? because of self interest. He wants and will probably be PM in four years time.. Labour with a wimp that sat on the fence and backed the wrong horse - he doesn't represent the disenfranchised who have been ignored for a generation and Lib Dems- who?, remember them?
There will be months of this endless pointless debate on TV and then we will have an election. Will the interests of the disenfranchised ( for that read none London ordinary working folk on as near as damn it minimum wage, no savings, fed up of long waits for GPs, pressure on housing etc etc) be represented ? I doubt it. Unless UKIP spot the opportunity. Potentially a half of voters available for them? Could be a UKIP Prime minister. Far fetched - about as far fetched as what has happened so far. What a mess of self interests over the interests of the country. Never have so many been so badly served by so few.
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That's not just Britain though, that's the whole world at the moment.
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That's not just Britain though, that's the whole world at the moment.
That's true enough. The USA have Trump. The Philippines have recently elected a new president that told everyone that he's just going to kill criminals! :o No arrest, no trial, just bang, problem solved! ::)
How are the Spanish elections going Varche? Any crackpots there? ???
I'm hoping Boris does become PM as then there will be 'Boris Bikes' all over Britain! :y Well... not Scotland obviously as they're off! Somewhere.... :-X
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The Scots need to understand it was a referendum of the British nation, of which they are a relatively small number. They had their referendum on whether they wanted to remain in the UK and they voted to stay.
The EU referendum had already been announced and they knew the result of that could mean the UK leaving the EU but they still voted to stay in the UK.
Bed has been made, now lie down on it and shut up. ::) ;D
This is true, but on the other hand, if Scotland had voted to become Independent of the UK, it was made clear by the EU that Scotland 'as a Independent Country' would lose its right as an EU Member, and the 'New Scotland' would need to apply for EU Membership and be treated with the same rules as any other Country wishing to apply for Membership.
So whilst Im not suggesting this is the main reason Scotland voted to stay within the UK a few months back under there own Referendum, , kind of guessing, due last Fridays majority vote to stay in the EU makes a case of there possible frustration.
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The Scots need to understand it was a referendum of the British nation, of which they are a relatively small number. They had their referendum on whether they wanted to remain in the UK and they voted to stay.
The EU referendum had already been announced and they knew the result of that could mean the UK leaving the EU but they still voted to stay in the UK.
Bed has been made, now lie down on it and shut up. ::) ;D
This is true, but on the other hand, if Scotland had voted to become Independent of the UK, it was made clear by the EU that Scotland 'as a Independent Country' would lose its right as an EU Member, and the 'New Scotland' would need to apply for EU Membership and be treated with the same rules as any other Country wishing to apply for Membership.
So whilst Im not suggesting this is the main reason Scotland voted to stay within the UK a few months back under there own Referendum, , kind of guessing, due last Fridays majority vote to stay in the EU makes a case of there possible frustration.
As Varche has already said, self-interested, nothing else. What will the people of Scotland who voted leave do, just accept all of this?
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Pp , the conservatives look set for a majority. Podemos ( we can , a new party similar to Syriza in Greece) look set for second. For the first time Labour look set for third!
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I'll stick my neck out and make a projection .....
1. As already stated, article 50 is NOT invoked by Mr Cameron, he will allow his replacement to do that.
2. Informal talks take place with EU at very high level
3. After new PM appointed EU (Merkel) offer substantially revised terms of membership to UK (probably with a fudge on immigration/free movement)
4. New PM decides that the new terms might be acceptable to UK citizens and calls another referendum on that basis, without invoking article 50
5. UK votes to remain on the basis of the "better" terms.
Thus,
a) Mr Cameron's statement that he will not have a second referendum is still true .. it is not his call
b) UK stays part of EU which many want (including Merkel)
c) UK terms drastically (?) improved.
d) Leave campaigners whinge but lose
e) Sturgeon claims she can walk on water
:)
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That sounds about right,.
I just want to be able to control who comes in, in what volumes, and fish our own fish. Then I'm happy :y
All my other gripes are against the European Court of Human Rights - which isn't the EU, but a separate entity.
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The common market was an excellent idea. The European Union is not.
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I think people are slowly coming to the conclusion that we can't save £350 million a week, allow no free movement of people, and yet still trade with Europe on exactly the same terms.
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I think people are slowly coming to the conclusion that we can't save £350 million a week, allow no free movement of people, and yet still trade with Europe on exactly the same terms.
Strangely, I think most thinking people spotted that a long time ago. 8)
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I know it sounds crazy with all the crap the British people have put up with, but is there a possibility we won't actually leave the EU?, instead remaining in a perpetual 'limbo' kicking article 50 ever further down the road?
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I know it sounds crazy with all the crap the British people have put up with, but is there a possibility we won't actually leave the EU?, instead remaining in a perpetual 'limbo' kicking article 50 ever further down the road?
As a marketing trainer once said to me on a course in the late 90's, never underestimate what little the average person on the street knows or understands
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I know it sounds crazy with all the crap the British people have put up with, but is there a possibility we won't actually leave the EU?, instead remaining in a perpetual 'limbo' kicking article 50 ever further down the road?
As a marketing trainer once said to me on a course in the late 90's, never underestimate what little the average person on the street knows or understands
It's that attitude that people have voted against :-X
I think people are slowly coming to the conclusion that we can't save £350 million a week, allow no free movement of people, and yet still trade with Europe on exactly the same terms.
Strangely, I think most thinking people spotted that a long time ago. 8)
Agreed :y
Leaving is the way forward on many levels, just a shame the the moneyed don't want to relinquish their hold, and that the politicians lack the balls and imagination to enter the brave new world head first. So much more potential out out.
There's as much shite flying around the media now than there has been since the referendum was announced...
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I know it sounds crazy with all the crap the British people have put up with, but is there a possibility we won't actually leave the EU?, instead remaining in a perpetual 'limbo' kicking article 50 ever further down the road?
As a marketing trainer once said to me on a course in the late 90's, never underestimate what little the average person on the street knows or understands
It's that attitude that people have voted against :-X
.. and the attitudes that many have been displaying since demonstrates that they wouldn't be safe with a recently boiled kettle let alone a vote.
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I cannot believe the actions of people. The two camps....
The leavers. Who have taken a sigh of relief, and had a pint. Then gone to work Monday morning.
The Remainers - Who have spend the last few days bemoaning, cursing, and throwing sarcastic 'thankyous', and overall hate. Demanding a second referendum, saying this country has been ripped apart, we've killed us all etc.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but it really seems that way to me. So much acidity aimed at the 'leavers.' :( :( :'(
For 1,973 years AD we traded with mainland Europe as separate, but the last 43 years we've been in a sort of 'co-op club' that costs us more to be in than we get out. So we've decided to leave.
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but it really seems that way to me. So much acidity aimed at the 'leavers.' :( :( :'(
Like I say, you want to try working here.. They talk about immigrants no longer feeling welcome in England, well.. I no longer feel welcome at work!
There's an Irish & UK national who suggested stripping pensioners of their pension by way of retribution for their votes.
A Spanish & UK national who commented he wants to emigrate somewhere warm (but not Spain, apparently)
General consensus that anyone who voted leave is a racist, xenophobic retard who should be taken out and shot.
How anyone voting leave has cost them thousands of euros of savings..
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Bit tricky living here in Spain. Spaniards keep asking me what is happening about leaving.
Fortunately they have just had their second inconclusive election. Might end up with a Tory/Labour coalition to keep the loony Podemos at bay but that won't fly.
Expect talk of taking Gibraltar back to kick off soon too. They voted largely for Remain in EU.
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but it really seems that way to me. So much acidity aimed at the 'leavers.' :( :( :'(
Like I say, you want to try working here.. They talk about immigrants no longer feeling welcome in England, well.. I no longer feel welcome at work!
There's an Irish & UK national who suggested stripping pensioners of their pension by way of retribution for their votes.
A Spanish & UK national who commented he wants to emigrate somewhere warm (but not Spain, apparently)
General consensus that anyone who voted leave is a racist, xenophobic retard who should be taken out and shot.
How anyone voting leave has cost them thousands of euros of savings..
Only 36% of young fit and healthy voters in the 18-24 range managed to vote. :-\
Yet 83% of the over 55's managed to drag their arthritic, pox-ridden frames, down to the polling office.
If the young had taken the responsibility to vote the referendum may well have gone the way of remain.
No point in blaming the coffin dodgers.
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Agreed... Don't deserve a say if you can't be arsed to vote :y
The EU nationals here still come to work, no toy throwing or anti British sentiments... But perhaps they are intelligent enough to realise that the sky hasn't fallen in, they still have their jobs and aren't going to be sent home with the first post...
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but it really seems that way to me. So much acidity aimed at the 'leavers.' :( :( :'(
Like I say, you want to try working here.. They talk about immigrants no longer feeling welcome in England, well.. I no longer feel welcome at work!
There's an Irish & UK national who suggested stripping pensioners of their pension by way of retribution for their votes.
A Spanish & UK national who commented he wants to emigrate somewhere warm (but not Spain, apparently)
General consensus that anyone who voted leave is a racist, xenophobic retard who should be taken out and shot.
How anyone voting leave has cost them thousands of euros of savings..
You not got your England shirt on and Union Jack flag out yet yeh wimp ::)
Man up and fight fire with fire I say ............... :y :y :D :D
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Agreed... Don't deserve a say if you can't be arsed to vote :y
The EU nationals here still come to work, no toy throwing or anti British sentiments... But perhaps they are intelligent enough to realise that the sky hasn't fallen in, they still have their jobs and aren't going to be sent home with the first post...
But as you all know with the kids today ::)
They know everything about sweet f**k all and are always right ::) ::)
And when they are proved wrong, its a stitch up, they are been picked on and its JUST NOT FAIR
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but it really seems that way to me. So much acidity aimed at the 'leavers.' :( :( :'(
Like I say, you want to try working here.. They talk about immigrants no longer feeling welcome in England, well.. I no longer feel welcome at work!
There's an Irish & UK national who suggested stripping pensioners of their pension by way of retribution for their votes.
A Spanish & UK national who commented he wants to emigrate somewhere warm (but not Spain, apparently)
General consensus that anyone who voted leave is a racist, xenophobic retard who should be taken out and shot.
How anyone voting leave has cost them thousands of euros of savings..
Tell them not to let the door smack their arse on the way out. Nothing worse than foreigners moaning about their situation in our country. If they think they'd be better off at home, then fick off back there.
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but it really seems that way to me. So much acidity aimed at the 'leavers.' :( :( :'(
Like I say, you want to try working here.. They talk about immigrants no longer feeling welcome in England, well.. I no longer feel welcome at work!
There's an Irish & UK national who suggested stripping pensioners of their pension by way of retribution for their votes.
A Spanish & UK national who commented he wants to emigrate somewhere warm (but not Spain, apparently)
General consensus that anyone who voted leave is a racist, xenophobic retard who should be taken out and shot.
How anyone voting leave has cost them thousands of euros of savings..
Tell them not to let the door smack their arse on the way out. Nothing worse than foreigners moaning about their situation in our country. If they think they'd be better off at home, then fick off back there.
See my post above ;)
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but it really seems that way to me. So much acidity aimed at the 'leavers.' :( :( :'(
Like I say, you want to try working here.. They talk about immigrants no longer feeling welcome in England, well.. I no longer feel welcome at work!
There's an Irish & UK national who suggested stripping pensioners of their pension by way of retribution for their votes.
A Spanish & UK national who commented he wants to emigrate somewhere warm (but not Spain, apparently)
General consensus that anyone who voted leave is a racist, xenophobic retard who should be taken out and shot.
How anyone voting leave has cost them thousands of euros of savings..
And when you next see Paddy and Pedro, tell them we may be out of Europe, but we're still in the Euros.
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Actually.....don't say that. ;D
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Actually.....don't say that. ;D
See, now you've gone and done it. ::)
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Actually.....don't say that. ;D
STEVEN, YOU AND YOUR BIG GOB !!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( ;D