Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: STEMO on 22 August 2016, 22:15:43
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How come Renault seem to have gotten to grips with this 'problem' when other manufacturers still put drivers through the mill? Have they kidded the powers that be into letting cars on to the roads by submitting their own data? Are their cars as clean as they claim? Or does their system genuinely work?
No one on the captur or juke forums has had any problems, some people claiming to have only done town driving for 10000 miles or more. :-\
If you can get past the 'French shite' mentality and have any constructive input, that would be great. I am genuinely stumped as to how the DPF on the 1.5dci can work in everyday use where others do not.
I know that they use a fifth injector directly into the filter to raise the temperature, but that is hardly rocket science.
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Frig knows... Must be the only thing that does work. When was the last time you saw a renault laguna? They sold enough, post 2000 even. They're ALL dead now.
Perhaps it's simply the case that they've patented the only system that works and thus everyone else is screwed? :-\
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Frig knows... Must be the only thing that does work. When was the last time you saw a renault laguna? They sold enough, post 2000 even. They're ALL dead now.
Perhaps it's simply the case that they've patented the only system that works and thus everyone else is screwed? :-\
The latest lagunas looked great (in my opinion), followed one the other day and, from the back, it resembled a jag or Aston Martin. They were expensive, and you could get much more for the same money.
Back to the op, Mark seemed to think that this system was not that new. Nissan, of course, use the same engine in the Juke, Note and Quashqai. Renault use it in the clit and Megane. Just seems strange that other marques are still having problems.
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Frig knows... Must be the only thing that does work. When was the last time you saw a renault laguna? They sold enough, post 2000 even. They're ALL dead now.
Perhaps it's simply the case that they've patented the only system that works and thus everyone else is screwed? :-\
The latest lagunas looked great (in my opinion), followed one the other day and, from the back, it resembled a jag or Aston Martin. They were expensive, and you could get much more for the same money.
Back to the op, Mark seemed to think that this system was not that new. Nissan, of course, use the same engine in the Juke, Note and Quashqai. Renault use it in the clit and Megane. Just seems strange that other marques are still having problems.
Adds weight to my theory then. The best solution is often the first simplest one. If they've locked that down early...
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Adds weight to my theory then. The best solution is often the first simplest one. If they've locked that down early...
Probably a bit expensive adding an injector, so the bean counters send a lot of manufacturers down the route of bodging it by injecting fuel late, etc.
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No one on the captur or juke forums has had any problems, some people claiming to have only done town driving for 10000 miles or more. :-\
Similarly my Dad - has done 18,000m in ~2years in a current shape Note and ~40k in a previous shape Note in 3 years, neither has had a sniff of DPF problems and the current one has returned an average of >60mpg, mix of long(er) distance motorway and around town in both cases.
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There is a simple fix to the problem.
Use proper fuel rather than lorry/bus/taxi/ocean going liner fuel. :y
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There is a simple fix to the problem.
Use proper fuel rather than lorry/bus/taxi/ocean going liner fuel. :y
I would think a modern 2.8T derv drinker would leave your elderly signum for dust, and you would get approx twice the mpg. What's not to like?
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There is a simple fix to the problem.
Use proper fuel rather than lorry/bus/taxi/ocean going liner fuel. :y
I would think a modern 2.8T derv drinker would leave your elderly signum for dust, and you would get approx twice the mpg. What's not to like?
It's the power delivery I don't like. The best analogy I can use is that driving a derv is like sex without a climax. No exciting top end 'rush'.
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.....and the DPF problem. :)
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....and the fact that older derv cars are more expensive to fix than cars using real fuel. :)
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......and the 'clattery' derv sound. :)
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Ok........but apart from that? ;D
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Ok........but apart from that? ;D
I may surprise you one day and buy an eco-derv that is less harmful to the environment than a gently fluttering butterfly. ::) :)
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There is a simple fix to the problem.
Use proper fuel rather than lorry/bus/taxi/ocean going liner fuel. :y
I would think a modern 2.8T derv drinker would leave your elderly signum for dust, and you would get approx twice the mpg. What's not to like?
It's the power delivery I don't like. The best analogy I can use is that driving a derv is like sex without a climax. No exciting top end 'rush'.
"Driving a car Paul is very much like making love to a beautiful woman" ;D
Conversely your Mrs told me she likes it diesel-y as it's dirty, vibrates a lot and has plenty of stamina :D ;)
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The DPF in my dads C5 lasted about 125 000 miles, mostly motorway driving though. Was about 500£ to replace at a dealer. PSA uses an additive called Eolys to make dpf regen possible at a lower temperature. Therefore it can more easily regenerate.
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You should actually never have to replace a DPF as the ash build up with high mileage is easily removed (plenty of companies offering this service and can be done to a lesser extent with a large compressor and blowing it through the wrong way......lots comes out!).
Some manufacturers use an additive (which of course needs topping up) which lowers the DPF regen temperature by circa 50 deg C and a smaller DPF (tends to limit the time between regens to circa 500 miles) is also used which heats up a bit faster. This all helps but if you do loads of town driving it will still catch you out unless you can react to a regen and get on a good drive.
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You should actually never have to replace a DPF as the ash build up with high mileage is easily removed (plenty of companies offering this service and can be done to a lesser extent with a large compressor and blowing it through the wrong way......lots comes out!).
Some manufacturers use an additive (which of course needs topping up) which lowers the DPF regen temperature by circa 50 deg C and a smaller DPF (tends to limit the time between regens to circa 500 miles) is also used which heats up a bit faster. This all helps but if you do loads of town driving it will still catch you out unless you can react to a regen and get on a good drive.
These Renaults/Nissans don't appear to show any signs of attempting a regen. Just can't figure it out. Wifey has done nearly 6000 miles in hers and no sign of any lights, no funny smells, no increased mpg, no increased fan speed.......nowt.
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It will have done many in that time, she must do a few clear runs?
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It will have done many in that time, she must do a few clear runs?
A roads for, maybe, a clear five mile run.
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It will have done many in that time, she must do a few clear runs?
A roads for, maybe, a clear five mile run.
Nah.....that's what she tells you.
In reality she drives all the way down to London to see her fancy man.
Foot to the boards all the way. :)
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These Renaults/Nissans don't appear to show any signs of attempting a regen. Just can't figure it out. Wifey has done nearly 6000 miles in hers and no sign of any lights, no funny smells, no increased mpg, no increased fan speed.......nowt.
Manufacturers found that when a regen light illuminated many drivers would stop the car, thinking there was a fault. Which doesn't help the process. They've reduced any noticeable symptoms as far possible for the same reasons. And I know it says in the manual what is happening, why, and what to do, but very few people actually read the things.
Putting a soot filter in the exhaust, and expecting to burn it clean using the same process that created the soot in the first place is an idea that has kneejerk and 'fixing' a symptom rather than the problem written all over it.
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These Renaults/Nissans don't appear to show any signs of attempting a regen. Just can't figure it out. Wifey has done nearly 6000 miles in hers and no sign of any lights, no funny smells, no increased mpg, no increased fan speed.......nowt.
Manufacturers found that when a regen light illuminated many drivers would stop the car, thinking there was a fault. Which doesn't help the process. They've reduced any noticeable symptoms as far possible for the same reasons. And I know it says in the manual what is happening, why, and what to do, but very few people actually read the things.
Putting a soot filter in the exhaust, and expecting to burn it clean using the same process that created the soot in the first place is an idea that has kneejerk and 'fixing' a symptom rather than the problem written all over it.
Good point. They need to invent one that compresses it into bales like that air ram vacuum. Then when it's full you can just lob it into a hedge and carry on.
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Setting fire to your waste products and then releasing the fumes into the atmosphere can't be all that green, surely? ;D
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I know Peugeot use adblue (is it called that? ???) That's what our buses use, if anyone doesn't know it's just pig piss! Don't know about Renault but about the time I left Fiat their latest derv POS engine (multijet 2 iirc) didn't need a regeneration cycle as it injected fuel 8 times a second (I remember seeing a very fancy graph)! Very clever people that lot, if you want innovation look at Fiat (sorry for all the brackets)(ps I hated Fiat before working for them, same as Vauxhall!).
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I know Peugeot use adblue (is it called that? ???) That's what our buses use, if anyone doesn't know it's just pig piss! Don't know about Renault but about the time I left Fiat their latest derv POS engine (multijet 2 iirc) didn't need a regeneration cycle as it injected fuel 8 times a second (I remember seeing a very fancy graph)! Very clever people that lot, if you want innovation look at Fiat (sorry for all the brackets)(ps I hated Fiat before working for them, same as Vauxhall!).
Totally different, Adblue is for NOx reduction (its Urea) and has no impact on particulate levels, its used by all manufacturers with cars/engines above a certain size (smaller units can get away with a fancy catalyst) :y. All these bluemotion and bluetec cars basically have Adblue injection
And its 8 injections per cycle, this has no impact on regeneration and they still do regenerate, what it does do is reduce noise and improve power delivery :y
Oh yes, the Fiat and Gm 1.3/1.9/2.0 engines are the same power plant
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In 40k plus, I've never experienced a regen. on my Insignia.
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In 40k plus, I've never experienced a regen. on my Insignia.
It must have done loads of them in 40k miles, if it hasn't the your living on borrowed time for the EML to come on and the vx dealer telling you it needs a new DPF ::)
But its the same in my Mondeo.....ive never noticed it doing one...
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How do you detect if it's doing a regen?
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The "live" fuel consumption goes up.
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In 40k plus, I've never experienced a regen. on my Insignia.
It must have done loads of them in 40k miles, if it hasn't the your living on borrowed time for the EML to come on and the vx dealer telling you it needs a new DPF ::)
But its the same in my Mondeo.....ive never noticed it doing one...
What age is your Mondeo? How have you found it?
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In 40k plus, I've never experienced a regen. on my Insignia.
It must have done loads of them in 40k miles, if it hasn't the your living on borrowed time for the EML to come on and the vx dealer telling you it needs a new DPF ::)
But its the same in my Mondeo.....ive never noticed it doing one...
What age is your Mondeo? How have you found it?
Its 4 years old....suffering with a couple of probs atm, bearing noise, uneven tyre wear....but its on 140k miles, so don't expect it to be fault free.... its a 1.6 manual 6 speed diesel....a very nice/easy drive.....maybe only criticism as its only a 1.6, it doesn't like steep hills, so sometimes you have to make it work ..... but then the av fuel consumption is creeping near the 50mpg mark now :y
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I know Peugeot use adblue (is it called that? ???) That's what our buses use, if anyone doesn't know it's just pig piss! Don't know about Renault but about the time I left Fiat their latest derv POS engine (multijet 2 iirc) didn't need a regeneration cycle as it injected fuel 8 times a second (I remember seeing a very fancy graph)! Very clever people that lot, if you want innovation look at Fiat (sorry for all the brackets)(ps I hated Fiat before working for them, same as Vauxhall!).
Totally different, Adblue is for NOx reduction (its Urea) and has no impact on particulate levels, its used by all manufacturers with cars/engines above a certain size (smaller units can get away with a fancy catalyst) :y. All these bluemotion and bluetec cars basically have Adblue injection
And its 8 injections per cycle, this has no impact on regeneration and they still do regenerate, what it does do is reduce noise and improve power delivery :y
Oh yes, the Fiat and Gm 1.3/1.9/2.0 engines are the same power plant
Yeah fiat design then sold to the others, when I worked there they were keeping the multijet 2 to themselves and it definitely did something that meant no regen cycle... ???
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I know Peugeot use adblue (is it called that? ???) That's what our buses use, if anyone doesn't know it's just pig piss! Don't know about Renault but about the time I left Fiat their latest derv POS engine (multijet 2 iirc) didn't need a regeneration cycle as it injected fuel 8 times a second (I remember seeing a very fancy graph)! Very clever people that lot, if you want innovation look at Fiat (sorry for all the brackets)(ps I hated Fiat before working for them, same as Vauxhall!).
Totally different, Adblue is for NOx reduction (its Urea) and has no impact on particulate levels, its used by all manufacturers with cars/engines above a certain size (smaller units can get away with a fancy catalyst) :y. All these bluemotion and bluetec cars basically have Adblue injection
And its 8 injections per cycle, this has no impact on regeneration and they still do regenerate, what it does do is reduce noise and improve power delivery :y
Oh yes, the Fiat and Gm 1.3/1.9/2.0 engines are the same power plant
Yeah fiat design then sold to the others, when I worked there they were keeping the multijet 2 to themselves and it definitely did something that meant no regen cycle... ???
Totally impossibly sadly, the whole basis of the tech is means there is no other option. :y