Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: GrahamT on 13 September 2016, 19:09:26

Title: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 13 September 2016, 19:09:26
I will be doing the cambelt on my omega very soon. Apart from changing the water pump are there any other things i should do at the sane time? Advice is appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: TheBoy on 13 September 2016, 19:25:01
Check aux belt pulley for dry bearings.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: biggriffin on 13 September 2016, 19:25:45
Thermostat, and transfer pipe, change pas fluid, fit new drive belt, grease auxilary pulley bearing.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: biggriffin on 13 September 2016, 19:26:20
Must try harder. :D
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Nick W on 13 September 2016, 19:27:47
Jetwash the front of the engine especially around the crank pulley and oil pressure switch. It will be filthy there, all V6s are, but you'll be able to check if the front crank oil seal is leaking. Fixing that while the cambelt is off is easy.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 14 September 2016, 16:26:36
Thanks guys. I usually use autovaux for parts, any recommendations for other suppliers ?
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: tunnie on 14 September 2016, 16:46:53
Yeah, don't use AutoVaux  ;D
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 14 September 2016, 16:53:29
Transfer pipe-  can only be found at main dealer or heebay for ex-dealer stock (as far as I'm aware)
Stat -Wahler or GM for the thermostat (Wahler is OEM) about £20
PAS Fluid - from your dealer £4.80 trade price (why get it elsewhere at that price)
Drive Belt - 6PK 2020 from any motorfactor. (that's 6 x grooves and 2020mm long) genuine GM will be about £28, independant Gates cost me about £18. Gates is a very good make, probably make the GM ones!
Timing Kit can be any make. They get advertised as GM, Contitech, Gates, SKF - made. ABout £100, but there was one found on Amazon for something daft like £50 and used wityh good results, Someone might be able to direct you to this. Nomatter which kit you buy, even if it's for the 3.2 can be 'made to fit' any other V6, by reusing your existing backplate, so you can't buy the 'wrong' kit even if you try. (famous last words)

 :y
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 14 September 2016, 16:53:56
Also Autovaux..... no .... just no  ;)
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 14 September 2016, 18:39:48
Also Autovaux..... no .... just no  ;)

Why not when I can buy genuine parts for less than Vauxhall charge me. They have great customer service, parts arrive quickly.

It really annoys me when people make comments like that with no statement to justify it.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 14 September 2016, 19:11:45
Also Autovaux..... no .... just no  ;)

Why not when I can buy genuine parts for less than Vauxhall charge me. They have great customer service, parts arrive quickly.

It really annoys me when people make comments like that with no statement to justify it.

I can easily Justify it.

From autovaux I have ordered "genuine" omega v6 cam cover gaskets and have been sent Elring.

"Genuine" spark plugs that have not been genuine.

When I order parts from Vauxhall they come in GM branded bags and fit.



Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: TheBoy on 14 September 2016, 19:17:40
What they claim to send is not what they send.

Best avoided.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: neil74 on 14 September 2016, 23:31:29
Would anyone be willing to do my cambelt kit swap for some beer money or whatever the going rate maybe?.  and I can drive to you provided its not too far away.

Thanks
Neil.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 15 September 2016, 00:40:13
Hi Neil

What are your views on getting your hands dirty? The reason I ask - I would offer to just change your belt for you, but I recently injured my back, and wouldn't be able to cope with it physically at the moment.

If you wanted though, you could come over, and I would happily stand with you and guide you through the entire process start to finish, step by step. I have tools, so you'd just need yourself, your car, and the parts.

An ideal opportunity if you wanted to learn a bit about it, and might even give you the confidence to do it alone next time around :y
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: neil74 on 15 September 2016, 02:30:54
Hi James. That sounds like an excellent idea. I suppose I should really tackle the job myself but I do tend to make silly mistakes and having someone who knows what they're doing making sure it all goes to plan is the ideal situation.

Thanks
Neil.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: terry paget on 15 September 2016, 09:03:02
Transfer pipe-  can only be found at main dealer or heebay for ex-dealer stock (as far as I'm aware)
Stat -Wahler or GM for the thermostat (Wahler is OEM) about £20
PAS Fluid - from your dealer £4.80 trade price (why get it elsewhere at that price)
Drive Belt - 6PK 2020 from any motorfactor. (that's 6 x grooves and 2020mm long) genuine GM will be about £28, independant Gates cost me about £18. Gates is a very good make, probably make the GM ones!
Timing Kit can be any make. They get advertised as GM, Contitech, Gates, SKF - made. ABout £100, but there was one found on Amazon for something daft like £50 and used wityh good results, Someone might be able to direct you to this. Nomatter which kit you buy, even if it's for the 3.2 can be 'made to fit' any other V6, by reusing your existing backplate, so you can't buy the 'wrong' kit even if you try. (famous last words)

 :y
Here's a kit at £34 on e-bay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-New-Vauxhall-Omega-Astra-Vectra-Calibra-Timing-Belt-kit-93174261-V18-/252184093966?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item3ab757e50e:g:bHEAAOSwjVVVripx
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Nick W on 15 September 2016, 09:07:17
Now matter how cheap it is, a four cylinder belt-kit won't fit a V6!
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 15 September 2016, 14:59:28
James V6s suggestion is a fine one. His real name is 'Yoda' when it comes to V6s  :y
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: robson on 15 September 2016, 15:35:27
Long time no hear James. Sorry to hear of your problem
Ron
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 16 September 2016, 18:38:06
Also Autovaux..... no .... just no  ;)

Why not when I can buy genuine parts for less than Vauxhall charge me. They have great customer service, parts arrive quickly.

It really annoys me when people make comments like that with no statement to justify it.

I can easily Justify it.

From autovaux I have ordered "genuine" omega v6 cam cover gaskets and have been sent Elring.

"Genuine" spark plugs that have not been genuine.

When I order parts from Vauxhall they come in GM branded bags and fit.

Every time I have asked for GM parts I get GM parts with GM stickers etc. If I don't ask I get pattern parts as they are cheaper. Never had an issue with what I've ordered from them ever.

Each to their own. :)
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: biggriffin on 16 September 2016, 18:40:28
Transfer pipe-  can only be found at main dealer or heebay for ex-dealer stock (as far as I'm aware)
Stat -Wahler or GM for the thermostat (Wahler is OEM) about £20
PAS Fluid - from your dealer £4.80 trade price (why get it elsewhere at that price)
Drive Belt - 6PK 2020 from any motorfactor. (that's 6 x grooves and 2020mm long) genuine GM will be about £28, independant Gates cost me about £18. Gates is a very good make, probably make the GM ones!
Timing Kit can be any make. They get advertised as GM, Contitech, Gates, SKF - made. ABout £100, but there was one found on Amazon for something daft like £50 and used wityh good results, Someone might be able to direct you to this. Nomatter which kit you buy, even if it's for the 3.2 can be 'made to fit' any other V6, by reusing your existing backplate, so you can't buy the 'wrong' kit even if you try. (famous last words)

 :y
Here's a kit at £34 on e-bay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-New-Vauxhall-Omega-Astra-Vectra-Calibra-Timing-Belt-kit-93174261-V18-/252184093966?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item3ab757e50e:g:bHEAAOSwjVVVripx

As Nick says won't fit a v6 read description. Mercedes sprinter aux belt same as v6.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 16 September 2016, 18:51:49
Ok had a slight hitch. The water pump failed today and I had to be recovered by the AA. No problem as I was planning on doing the cambelt etc this weekend anyway.

My problem is the timing marks. They don't line up. They are one tooth out on all four camshafts. But the engine runs fine and sounds exactly as it did before. So when I do the cambelt do I realign the crank or leave it alone. As if I put the crank in the correct position the camshaft locking tools will not engage.

Opinions please? See pictures below.

Camshafts aligned, see picture of the crankshaft out of position

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/snowy70838/IMAG0439_zpsfh8uuvlz.jpg) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/snowy70838/media/IMAG0439_zpsfh8uuvlz.jpg.html)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/snowy70838/IMAG0440_zpsixyddj1e.jpg) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/snowy70838/media/IMAG0440_zpsixyddj1e.jpg.html)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/snowy70838/IMAG0438_zpszpx85t1m.jpg) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/snowy70838/media/IMAG0438_zpszpx85t1m.jpg.html)


Crankshaft aligned, see picture of the camshaft out of position (sorry forgot to take cams 3&4 but they are out by the same position).

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/snowy70838/IMAG0442_zpstv6t3rgo.jpg) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/snowy70838/media/IMAG0442_zpstv6t3rgo.jpg.html)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/snowy70838/IMAG0443_zpsdk9oyczj.jpg) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/snowy70838/media/IMAG0443_zpsdk9oyczj.jpg.html)

Thanks
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Lazydocker on 16 September 2016, 20:07:18
You MUST use the alignment tool that looks a bit like a 8 on its side (with the ends missing)... The timing marks on the backplate are not accurate at all ;)
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 16 September 2016, 20:12:13
You MUST use the alignment tool that looks a bit like a 8 on its side (with the ends missing)... The timing marks on the backplate are not accurate at all ;)

I will, I haven't taken the belt off yet. But its good to know that the timing marks are rubbish.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Lazydocker on 16 September 2016, 20:17:19
You MUST use the alignment tool that looks a bit like a 8 on its side (with the ends missing)... The timing marks on the backplate are not accurate at all ;)

I will, I haven't taken the belt off yet. But its good to know that the timing marks are rubbish.

You set it up with the timing tool :y
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Nick W on 16 September 2016, 20:33:21
You MUST use the alignment tool that looks a bit like a 8 on its side (with the ends missing)... The timing marks on the backplate are not accurate at all ;)

I will, I haven't taken the belt off yet. But its good to know that the timing marks are rubbish.


They're not rubbish, but are just meant as a rough guide. This is typical complicated German design, as it could have been arranged it so that each pulley had marks that aligned with its neighbour, and  better crank marks.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 16 September 2016, 20:47:21
Thanks
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: TheBoy on 17 September 2016, 10:22:58
Its likely the crank is 1 tooth out, looking at those.  Probably previously fitted by somebody who thought they could do it without a locking kit.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 17 September 2016, 10:26:29
Can anyone help with locating a few parts....

While removing the covers to get at the water pump / cambelt it was obvious a few things were broken;

1.The plastic cable trunking running across the front of the engine is snapped where it turns 90 degrees around the side of the engine.
2.The rubber mounts that hold the secondary air steel pipe in place. The rubber had come away from the steel back plate. The smaller of the two.
3.The very front screw that holds the air filter lid was rounded off and left undone. I only noticed when I removed the air box lid. The air filter inside is like new so the  history of the car looks good.

Has anyone got good second hand items or can they point me in the right direction to find some for sale?

Thanks
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 17 September 2016, 10:27:32
Its likely the crank is 1 tooth out, looking at those.  Probably previously fitted by somebody who thought they could do it without a locking kit.

Ok, the engine seems to run fine. But using the locking kit I've got I will correct the issue.

Is this common with people who try not to use the locking kits then? :)
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: TheBoy on 17 September 2016, 10:33:11
Yes, so many idiots, including "professionals" have egos bigger than abilities and think they can do it without the locking/timing kit. And it ends up being wrong.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 17 September 2016, 10:34:29
Yes, so many idiots, including "professionals" have egos bigger than abilities and think they can do it without the locking/timing kit. And it ends up being wrong.

I bought the sykes pickavant set. Which I was told were a good make.....I hope so :o
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Nick W on 17 September 2016, 10:41:25
Its likely the crank is 1 tooth out, looking at those.  Probably previously fitted by somebody who thought they could do it without a locking kit.

Ok, the engine seems to run fine. But using the locking kit I've got I will correct the issue.

Is this common with people who try not to use the locking kits then? :)

Yes. The timing tools are often misunderstood; the locks are to save you needing extra hands, but the gauge and crank tool are actually the heart of the set.

The other cause is not turning the engine through enough times. With 5 toothed pulleys, up to 3 adjustable rollers, and long belt runs there are lots of potential causes of the timing being wrong. Mine was a tooth out on all four cams, and had extra Tippex marks which is a sure sign of not using the timing tools. Having said that, I do like to highlight the original marks.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 17 September 2016, 10:43:27
Its likely the crank is 1 tooth out, looking at those.  Probably previously fitted by somebody who thought they could do it without a locking kit.

Ok, the engine seems to run fine. But using the locking kit I've got I will correct the issue.

Is this common with people who try not to use the locking kits then? :)

Yes. The timing tools are often misunderstood; the locks are to save you needing extra hands, but the gauge and crank tool are actually the heart of the set.

The other cause is not turning the engine through enough times. With 5 toothed pulleys, up to 3 adjustable rollers, and long belt runs there are lots of potential causes of the timing being wrong. Mine was a tooth out on all four cams, and had extra Tippex marks which is a sure sign of not using the timing tools. Having said that, I do like to highlight the original marks.

I must admit I did take a second glance until I realised like the four cylinder cars the pulley have multiple timing marks depending what camshaft they are fitted too.

Thanks
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: Nick W on 17 September 2016, 10:51:22
Can anyone help with locating a few parts....

While removing the covers to get at the water pump / cambelt it was obvious a few things were broken;

1.The plastic cable trunking running across the front of the engine is snapped where it turns 90 degrees around the side of the engine.
2.The rubber mounts that hold the secondary air steel pipe in place. The rubber had come away from the steel back plate. The smaller of the two.
3.The very front screw that holds the air filter lid was rounded off and left undone. I only noticed when I removed the air box lid. The air filter inside is like new so the  history of the car looks good.


You can replace the rubber mounts with a spacer the same thickness and a bolt. Super glue a stack of washers together if you can't make a one-piece spacer. It's probably been loose since the last time someone removed it, so don't worry too much.

As there are several other retaining screws on the air filter lid I wouldn't worry about one not being tightened. That's less of a bodge than an assortment of woodscrews wound in with a drill which is the usual solution.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: TheBoy on 17 September 2016, 10:53:29
Yes, so many idiots, including "professionals" have egos bigger than abilities and think they can do it without the locking/timing kit. And it ends up being wrong.

I bought the sykes pickavant set. Which I was told were a good make.....I hope so :o
I use an SP set :y.  After destroying my first set in the explosion, I replaced with another SP set.  So you can guess I rate it :y

It was a batch of the Laser ones that were all faulty (or they were fake).
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 17 September 2016, 11:00:00
Can anyone help with locating a few parts....

While removing the covers to get at the water pump / cambelt it was obvious a few things were broken;

1.The plastic cable trunking running across the front of the engine is snapped where it turns 90 degrees around the side of the engine.
2.The rubber mounts that hold the secondary air steel pipe in place. The rubber had come away from the steel back plate. The smaller of the two.
3.The very front screw that holds the air filter lid was rounded off and left undone. I only noticed when I removed the air box lid. The air filter inside is like new so the  history of the car looks good.


You can replace the rubber mounts with a spacer the same thickness and a bolt. Super glue a stack of washers together if you can't make a one-piece spacer. It's probably been loose since the last time someone removed it, so don't worry too much.

As there are several other retaining screws on the air filter lid I wouldn't worry about one not being tightened. That's less of a bodge than an assortment of woodscrews wound in with a drill which is the usual solution.

Thanks, I just like to replace parts where possible with standard set up. But your idea will be fine if nothing comes up.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: GrahamT on 17 September 2016, 11:00:25
Yes, so many idiots, including "professionals" have egos bigger than abilities and think they can do it without the locking/timing kit. And it ends up being wrong.

I bought the sykes pickavant set. Which I was told were a good make.....I hope so :o
I use an SP set :y.  After destroying my first set in the explosion, I replaced with another SP set.  So you can guess I rate it :y

It was a batch of the Laser ones that were all faulty (or they were fake).

That's good to know..... :)
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: neil74 on 24 November 2016, 14:18:03
Hi James.  Are you still ok with helping me with my cambelt change. if so what would be the best time for me to arrive at your house to sort it all out.

Thanks
Neil.
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 26 November 2016, 04:03:12
Hi James.  Are you still ok with helping me with my cambelt change. if so what would be the best time for me to arrive at your house to sort it all out.

Thanks
Neil.

Hi Neil

Happy for you to use all my tools and to guide you through the job.

That said however my back has taken a turn for the worse and I'm unable to do anything physical at all

Cheers
James
Title: Re: 2.5V6 cambelt change
Post by: neil74 on 26 November 2016, 13:32:41
Hi James. No worries i'll do the work needed. and truth be told It will just be good to get an important job done on the car and talk to someone who likes the cars and has repaired several over the years.

Thanks
Neil.