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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: powerslinky on 14 October 2016, 04:42:04

Title: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: powerslinky on 14 October 2016, 04:42:04
Just going through some old photographs last night . . .

Found one of my grandad with his then  brand new 1967 Ford Cortina Estate.

He always called estate cars  "Shooting Brakes"  as in "my brand new '67 cortina shooting brake."

Anyone on here know of the term . . .or am I really showing my age here  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: biggriffin on 14 October 2016, 05:07:43
I do believe it's a phrase from the colonies, mainly America.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 14 October 2016, 06:34:49
Remember it well from my childhood, yes definitely an American term for an estate.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: RobG on 14 October 2016, 06:55:22
I do believe it's a phrase from the colonies, mainly America.
British terminology circa 19th century
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Bojan on 14 October 2016, 07:49:41
That is how two door estate car (station wagon) is called.
Used by gentleman when going into forrest and hunting.

And I think it's first used by British aristocracy (who else would have a car just for hunting  :) ).
But currently popular phrase in US.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: biggriffin on 14 October 2016, 08:31:58
I do believe it's a phrase from the colonies, mainly America.
British terminology circa 19th century

D'oh wrong again. :)
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Mister Rog on 14 October 2016, 08:45:37
Just going through some old photographs last night . . .

Found one of my grandad with his then  brand new 1967 Ford Cortina Estate.

He always called estate cars  "Shooting Brakes"  as in "my brand new '67 cortina shooting brake."

Anyone on here know of the term . . .or am I really showing my age here  ;D ;D ;D ;D

My Dad also used to call them "Shooting Brakes" and had a series of Vauxhall estates. I've only just twigged that he had a few Victors and I've had a few Omegas.

Anyway for ages I always thought it was about some kind of braking system. Found this which seems to make sense


SHOOTING BRAKE LINK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting-brake)

Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: BazaJT on 14 October 2016, 20:02:09
Very first car I can recall[just]my dad having was a Morris Isis "woody" estate and mum always called it the shooting brake.As said I believe it was a term coined for[or by]the landed gentry for the vehicles they used when going shooting-carrying their guns etc.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 14 October 2016, 20:07:33
Just going through some old photographs last night . . .

Found one of my grandad with his then  brand new 1967 Ford Cortina Estate.

He always called estate cars  "Shooting Brakes"  as in "my brand new '67 cortina shooting brake."

Anyone on here know of the term . . .or am I really showing my age here  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Either a very late MK1 or an early MK2. :y
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2016, 21:11:28
Shooting brake sounds more upmarket than estate

Merc make a CLS Shooting Brake
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: frostbite on 14 October 2016, 21:27:51
I thought shooting brakes were fastbacks?

sort of wedge shaped
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Nick W on 14 October 2016, 21:42:32
Shooting brake sounds more upmarket than estate

Merc make a CLS Shooting Brake


Since when? Shooting brakes are two-door estate cars. The CLS is a (poncy) estate car - so called because the big estates used them for moving stuff and people about.


It's like calling an MX5 a roadster; it can't be as it has wind-up windows and a folding roof.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 October 2016, 21:43:19
Isn't the Jaguar XF estate called a Shooting Brake?  :-\
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2016, 22:32:50
Shooting brake sounds more upmarket than estate

Merc make a CLS Shooting Brake


Since when? Shooting brakes are two-door estate cars. The CLS is a (poncy) estate car - so called because the big estates used them for moving stuff and people about.


It's like calling an MX5 a roadster; it can't be as it has wind-up windows and a folding roof.

I didn't name it!  ::)

A Coupe should only really have 2 doors ....... but a Rover P5 Coupe had 4

And my Smart Roadster has wind up windows & a folding fabric roof .......  8)
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: STEMO on 14 October 2016, 22:37:36
What difference does it actually make? You buy a car because of what it does, not what some wank wordy marketeer calls it.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2016, 22:43:48
What difference does it actually make? You buy a car because of what it does, not what some wank wordy marketeer calls it.

exactly.  :y

Shooting brake would have been the last thing I'd have described a MKII Escort Estate ......
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: frostbite on 14 October 2016, 22:46:57
Does that mean a v12 xjs lynx eventer is a shooting-brake?
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2016, 22:50:22
Does that mean a v12 xjs lynx eventer is a shooting-brake?

S'pose so ..... along with a Scimitar 5/6/6a/6b/8  ;)
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Shackeng on 14 October 2016, 23:16:16
First car I drove on the roads at 15 was a Morris 8 2 door shooting brake. Not much traffic in the '50's :y
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: powerslinky on 15 October 2016, 05:43:16
Just going through some old photographs last night . . .

Found one of my grandad with his then  brand new 1967 Ford Cortina Estate.

He always called estate cars  "Shooting Brakes"  as in "my brand new '67 cortina shooting brake."

Anyone on here know of the term . . .or am I really showing my age here  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Either a very late MK1 or an early MK2. :y

Yes  early Mk2 . . .  remember it well   it was a metallic brown colour  :y :y
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Mister Rog on 15 October 2016, 08:46:38
What difference does it actually make? You buy a car because of what it does, not what some wank wordy marketeer calls it.

Not in todays World. Branding and marketing are all important to those who sell us stuff. A car maker may well see some advantage and differentiation in calling an Estate a Shooting Brake. Come to think of it what about the word "Estate" ? Does that not suggest some Grandeur, BMW call their estates "Touring" What does that mean ?

Maybe suppose they should just be called " Longer"  or maybe "Biggerinside"  ::)
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Nick W on 15 October 2016, 08:53:10
What difference does it actually make? You buy a car because of what it does, not what some wank wordy marketeer calls it.

Not in todays World. Branding and marketing are all important to those who sell us stuff. A car maker may well see some advantage and differentiation in calling an Estate a Shooting Brake. Come to think of it what about the word "Estate" ? Does that not suggest some Grandeur, BMW call their estates "Touring" What does that mean ?


For once BMW's tourer isn't marketing wank, but an honest appraisal of the car's piss-poor load carrying capacity. You'll get bigger objects in an Astra estate than a 5series.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Nick W on 15 October 2016, 08:54:48
Just going through some old photographs last night . . .

Found one of my grandad with his then  brand new 1967 Ford Cortina Estate.

He always called estate cars  "Shooting Brakes"  as in "my brand new '67 cortina shooting brake."

Anyone on here know of the term . . .or am I really showing my age here  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Either a very late MK1 or an early MK2. :y

Yes  early Mk2 . . .  remember it well   it was a metallic brown colour  :y :y

Before and after the paint peeled off?  ;D
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Mister Rog on 15 October 2016, 09:17:51
What difference does it actually make? You buy a car because of what it does, not what some wank wordy marketeer calls it.

Not in todays World. Branding and marketing are all important to those who sell us stuff. A car maker may well see some advantage and differentiation in calling an Estate a Shooting Brake. Come to think of it what about the word "Estate" ? Does that not suggest some Grandeur, BMW call their estates "Touring" What does that mean ?


For once BMW's tourer isn't marketing wank, but an honest appraisal of the car's piss-poor load carrying capacity. You'll get bigger objects in an Astra estate than a 5series.

And Audis are possible worse, thats why I gought a Volvo

It's really strange that a car manufacturer decides to produce an Estate version of a big car, then has a roof and rear hatch door that have been designed to reduce load carrying capacity  ???
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: biggriffin on 15 October 2016, 09:36:32
Isn't the Jaguar XF  called a bird puller  :-\

That's fixed, according to lord opti  :D
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Nick W on 15 October 2016, 09:42:55

For once BMW's tourer isn't marketing wank, but an honest appraisal of the car's piss-poor load carrying capacity. You'll get bigger objects in an Astra estate than a 5series.

And Audis are possible worse, thats why I bought a Volvo

It's really strange that a car manufacturer decides to produce an Estate version of a big car, then has a roof and rear hatch door that have been designed to reduce load carrying capacity  ???

Not to mention the massive wheel arch intrusion, that the seats don't fold down flat and that roof rails were optional. The flush fitting chrome luggage hooks are pretty, which is probably more important in the showroom.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Bigron on 15 October 2016, 11:00:26
Many years ago (please forgive me, I was young...) I bought a Wartburg Estate!
Now, despite many negative points from a petrol-heads's point of view, it had the bestest everrear capacity, with the rear seat squab pivoting at its forward edge to lie totally flat. The backs of the rear seats then disappeared totally into the space thereby vacated, giving a cavernouus load space or an impromtu double bed - who needed a van for courting? :-[ 8)

Ron.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: powerslinky on 15 October 2016, 11:08:14
Many years ago (please forgive me, I was young...) I bought a Wartburg Estate!
Now, despite many negative points from a petrol-heads's point of view, it had the bestest everrear capacity, with the rear seat squab pivoting at its forward edge to lie totally flat. The backs of the rear seats then disappeared totally into the space thereby vacated, giving a cavernouus load space or an impromtu double bed - who needed a van for courting? :-[ 8)

Ron.

Can't imagine any of your younger day conquests , telling their friends nowadays " I lost my virginity in the back of a Wartburg"  Ron . . . .

I bet even Opti has never done the dirty deed in the back  one of those  ;D ;D ;D   

Sorry Ron   . .but no brownie points for owning up to that  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Bigron on 15 October 2016, 11:45:45
At least the rear wheel arches could never rust.....

Ron.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 October 2016, 11:46:45
Many years ago (please forgive me, I was young...) I bought a Wartburg Estate!
Now, despite many negative points from a petrol-heads's point of view, it had the bestest everrear capacity, with the rear seat squab pivoting at its forward edge to lie totally flat. The backs of the rear seats then disappeared totally into the space thereby vacated, giving a cavernouus load space or an impromtu double bed - who needed a van for courting? :-[ 8)

Ron.

Can't imagine any of your younger day conquests , telling their friends nowadays " I lost my virginity in the back of a Wartburg"  Ron . . . .

I bet even Opti has never done the dirty deed in the back  one of those  ;D ;D ;D   

Sorry Ron   . .but no brownie points for owning up to that  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The 'Warty' was a smoky 2 stroke if memory serves. ;)

I imagine it only impressed the girl from the chip shop. The fat one with facial hair  blotchy legs and an unpleasant yeast infection. :D ;D
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Bigron on 15 October 2016, 11:59:44
I fully expected a major p*ss-take, but believe it or not, you never knew it was a two-stroke (yes, your memory serves you well; 3 cylinder 992cc.) unless you sniffed the exhaust!
Sorry, but it was cheap and we all had our impecunious periods, which are rapidly returning for me, in retirement!  :(

Ron.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: BazaJT on 15 October 2016, 17:51:16
You're not alone Bigron,I too once owned a Wartburg Knight estate,3cyl,two stroke and a coil per cylinder.It also had a Perspex rear window-possibly the entire rear door was plastic?Seem to recall it was also fitted with a freewheel system[but could be wrong].
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Bigron on 15 October 2016, 21:13:01
Phew, I'm not alone!   :)
The entire rear door was indeed fibreglass, but I thought the rear window was real glass?
Yes, 3 coils and 3 contact breakers! Adjusting the points was made easier with a milking stool in front of the car and a mug of coffee as support.
The freewheel was essential for the 2-stroke engine because on the overrun , no fuel and hence no lubrication for the engine = seizure.
Until you get used to it, also seizure for the driver - or a quick visit to Marks and Spencers! :-[ :-[ :-[

Ron.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: STEMO on 15 October 2016, 21:49:03
Phew, I'm not alone!   :)
The entire rear door was indeed fibreglass, but I thought the rear window was real glass?
Yes, 3 coils and 3 contact breakers! Adjusting the points was made easier with a milking stool in front of the car and a mug of coffee as support.
The freewheel was essential for the 2-stroke engine because on the overrun , no fuel and hence no lubrication for the engine = seizure.
Until you get used to it, also seizure for the driver - or a quick visit to Marks and Spencers! :-[ :-[ :-[

Ron.
Skint, yet still buying your undies from M&S? Dear me, Ron.  ;D
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Bigron on 15 October 2016, 21:56:17
STEMO, I used to get them from C&A (remember them?) because their label told you which way round to wear them, i.e. C*ock and A*se!
Nowadays we have to rely on more basic methods - yellow at the front, brown at the back!
The good thing about M&S knickers is their repeat wearability, checked by throwing them at the wall and if they slid down they were fit for another week, but if they stuck there, for god's sake change them!  :-[ :y

Ron.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Gaffers on 16 October 2016, 08:31:55
I do believe it's a phrase from the colonies, mainly America.
British terminology circa 19th century

D'oh wrong again. :)

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/look-at-best-shooting-brakes-ever-made#1 (http://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/look-at-best-shooting-brakes-ever-made#1)

http://uk.complex.com/sports/2014/03/what-a-shooting-brake-is (http://uk.complex.com/sports/2014/03/what-a-shooting-brake-is)

http://www.perrys.co.uk/car-news/news/jargon-buster-sportbrake-sports-tourer-shooting-brake/ (http://www.perrys.co.uk/car-news/news/jargon-buster-sportbrake-sports-tourer-shooting-brake/)
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Ever Ready on 16 October 2016, 08:51:33
Some lovely looking cars there :y :y
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Mister Rog on 16 October 2016, 09:08:22
I do believe it's a phrase from the colonies, mainly America.
British terminology circa 19th century

D'oh wrong again. :)

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/look-at-best-shooting-brakes-ever-made#1 (http://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/look-at-best-shooting-brakes-ever-made#1)

http://uk.complex.com/sports/2014/03/what-a-shooting-brake-is (http://uk.complex.com/sports/2014/03/what-a-shooting-brake-is)

http://www.perrys.co.uk/car-news/news/jargon-buster-sportbrake-sports-tourer-shooting-brake/ (http://www.perrys.co.uk/car-news/news/jargon-buster-sportbrake-sports-tourer-shooting-brake/)

Well, that seems to have cleared that one up    :y
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Gaffers on 16 October 2016, 09:39:21
A lot of things we dont like about american english actually come from......England.  Well, old England anyway.

Soccer, is an English phrase as football used to refer to rugby football (aussie and kiwis still call rugby league 'footy'). Spelling words without the 'u', was a common and acceptible usage in england at the time of the colonies.  In the UK English has since moved on and 'normalised' but stayed in the 17/18 hundreds over the atlantic.  You see the same with Quebec French and France French,  for example the Quebecois still use the phrase carriole (carriage, as in for horses) for a motor car.  Ironically they also use the word 'blonde' for wife ;D

Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Ever Ready on 16 October 2016, 15:16:13
If memory serves I remember an Aston with a brace of Purdey's in a rack.
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Mister Rog on 16 October 2016, 16:21:43
If memory serves I remember an Aston with a brace of Purdey's in a rack.

WOW ! TWO Joanna Lumleys    :y
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Ever Ready on 16 October 2016, 17:23:27
Twice the fun :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Shooting Brake ?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 October 2016, 21:21:58
A lot of things we dont like about american english actually come from......England.  Well, old England anyway.

Soccer, is an English phrase as football used to refer to rugby football (aussie and kiwis still call rugby league 'footy'). Spelling words without the 'u', was a common and acceptible usage in england at the time of the colonies.  In the UK English has since moved on and 'normalized' but stayed in the 17/18 hundreds over the atlantic.  You see the same with Quebec French and France French,  for example the Quebecois still use the phrase carriole (carriage, as in for horses) for a motor car.  Ironically they also use the word 'blonde' for wife ;D
Use of the letter Z instead of S also predates the Colonies ;)