Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: terry paget on 20 November 2016, 12:41:11
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As heading, checking out my sister's 1.6 manual petrol Meriva, which has not moved for 3 weeks. Recharged battery, started engine, driving it back to my place to service it, EPS light came on and steering went heavy. Please advise how to rectify.
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Is the battery any good?
How well is the alternator charging?
Has some muppet fitted Fiat Pinto EPS by mistake ;D?
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Is the battery any good?
How well is the alternator charging?
Has some muppet fitted Fiat Pinto EPS by mistake ;D?
Thanks for the quick reply, Nick.
Battery dodgy I think. It is a Varta, unknown age, and sister has never changed it in her ownership, last 6 years.
Alternator charging well - 14.6v at idle, falling to 14.3 with all lights and flashers on.
On engine restart EPS light went out and power steering returned.
I don't know how electric power steering works. I suspect it is still hydraulic, but the pump is electric motor driven on demand, rather than constant belt drive, to improve economy. All very well, but less reliable than belt, and may draw large current when doing duty. I am minded to replace her battery with a spare on my bench off a scrapped Omega.
I have no reason to suspect Fiat Pinto kit fitted. I imagine you have met this before!
-
Is the battery any good?
How well is the alternator charging?
Has some muppet fitted Fiat Pinto EPS by mistake ;D?
Thanks for the quick reply, Nick.
Battery dodgy I think. It is a Varta, unknown age, and sister has never changed it in her ownership, last 6 years.
Alternator charging well - 14.6v at idle, falling to 14.3 with all lights and flashers on.
On engine restart EPS light went out and power steering returned.
I don't know how electric power steering works. I suspect it is still hydraulic, but the pump is electric motor driven on demand, rather than constant belt drive, to improve economy. All very well, but less reliable than belt, and may draw large current when doing duty. I am minded to replace her battery with a spare on my bench off a scrapped Omega.
I have no reason to suspect Fiat Pinto kit fitted. I imagine you have met this before!
Don't!!!
It's your sisters fit a new one, for piece of mind and longevity about £35.00.
I've just had this argument with my father regarding my mums car, "fit that spare battery that's on the bench"
"er no, I'll put a new one on £39.00, from Halfords, on trade"
-
Is the battery any good?
How well is the alternator charging?
Has some muppet fitted Fiat Pinto EPS by mistake ;D?
Thanks for the quick reply, Nick.
Battery dodgy I think. It is a Varta, unknown age, and sister has never changed it in her ownership, last 6 years.
Alternator charging well - 14.6v at idle, falling to 14.3 with all lights and flashers on.
On engine restart EPS light went out and power steering returned.
I don't know how electric power steering works. I suspect it is still hydraulic, but the pump is electric motor driven on demand, rather than constant belt drive, to improve economy. All very well, but less reliable than belt, and may draw large current when doing duty. I am minded to replace her battery with a spare on my bench off a scrapped Omega.
I have no reason to suspect Fiat Pinto kit fitted. I imagine you have met this before!
Don't!!!
It's your sisters fit a new one, for piece of mind and longevity about £35.00.
I've just had this argument with my father regarding my mums car, "fit that spare battery that's on the bench"
"er no, I'll put a new one on £39.00, from Halfords, on trade"
What' to go wrong, biggriffin? The worst it can do is fail to start one cold morning. If it does that I can fit her another one.
-
Is the battery any good?
How well is the alternator charging?
Has some muppet fitted Fiat Pinto EPS by mistake ;D?
Thanks for the quick reply, Nick.
Battery dodgy I think. It is a Varta, unknown age, and sister has never changed it in her ownership, last 6 years.
Alternator charging well - 14.6v at idle, falling to 14.3 with all lights and flashers on.
On engine restart EPS light went out and power steering returned.
I don't know how electric power steering works. I suspect it is still hydraulic, but the pump is electric motor driven on demand, rather than constant belt drive, to improve economy. All very well, but less reliable than belt, and may draw large current when doing duty. I am minded to replace her battery with a spare on my bench off a scrapped Omega.
I have no reason to suspect Fiat Pinto kit fitted. I imagine you have met this before!
Don't!!!
It's your sisters fit a new one, for piece of mind and longevity about £35.00.
I've just had this argument with my father regarding my mums car, "fit that spare battery that's on the bench"
"er no, I'll put a new one on £39.00, from Halfords, on trade"
What' to go wrong, biggriffin? The worst it can do is fail to start one cold morning. If it does that I can fit her another one.
. Worst case.!
The steering might fail, but you saved 59p.
It goes flat away from her home, or it goes flat at 04.00, you going to sort it,. We all want to save money, there are something's that aren't worth it a battery is on the list, fit and forget.
-
Is the battery any good?
How well is the alternator charging?
Has some muppet fitted Fiat Pinto EPS by mistake ;D?
Thanks for the quick reply, Nick.
Battery dodgy I think. It is a Varta, unknown age, and sister has never changed it in her ownership, last 6 years.
Alternator charging well - 14.6v at idle, falling to 14.3 with all lights and flashers on.
On engine restart EPS light went out and power steering returned.
I don't know how electric power steering works. I suspect it is still hydraulic, but the pump is electric motor driven on demand, rather than constant belt drive, to improve economy. All very well, but less reliable than belt, and may draw large current when doing duty. I am minded to replace her battery with a spare on my bench off a scrapped Omega.
I have no reason to suspect Fiat Pinto kit fitted. I imagine you have met this before!
Don't!!!
It's your sisters fit a new one, for piece of mind and longevity about £35.00.
I've just had this argument with my father regarding my mums car, "fit that spare battery that's on the bench"
"er no, I'll put a new one on £39.00, from Halfords, on trade"
What' to go wrong, biggriffin? The worst it can do is fail to start one cold morning. If it does that I can fit her another one.
. Worst case.!
The steering might fail, but you saved 59p.
It goes flat away from her home, or it goes flat at 04.00, you going to sort it,. We all want to save money, there are something's that aren't worth it a battery is on the list, fit and forget.
My father always replaced his cars every 2 years, and advised me to do the same. I run and maintain 6 Omegas, a Meriva and a Streetwise for my near family and have done so for many years. The youngest car is 9 years old, the oldest 16. They have proved to be safe and reliable. When I scrap a car I harvest any parts I think re-useble.
I regard batteries as devices to store energy for starting, and ballasting alternator voltage, not as vital steering components. When the EPS failed on my Meriva journey home the car was still quite driveable, just lacked steering power assistance. Until Nick mentioned it, it did not occur to me that battery condition could affect power steering. seems a retrogade step to me. I still do not know how electrical power steering works - is it hydraulic with an electric pump?
Let's not have a row about it, BG. I respect your point of view, but am a hopeless miser.
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I still do not know how electrical power steering works - is it hydraulic with an electric pump?
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some are ... my astra G was like that (and when the V belt snaps you have no assistance at all and it's still really heavy even when you're moving) and others have the motor directly on the column :y
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There are two types of electric power steering, electro-hydraulic and full electric (a motor on the rack).
Electro-hydraulic is a traditional pas system with an electric pump, usually located in front of one of the front wheels inside the wheelarch.
Full electric is a electric motor mounted directly to the steeringrack. On the Meriva A i think it is located inside the car, Just like on the Corsa C
Most post Omega cars are touchy about the battery voltage..
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I believe it may actually be the same system as the Fiat Punto. My son has a Punto and his PAS motor cuts out sometimes when held on full lock for more than a couple of seconds. Its also common for the motor to cut out completely on these.
Its normally temporarily curable by switching off the engine and restarting.
I read a report which said it could be cured by replacing the relays in the PAS motor with different ones, so I had this done but it didn't completely fix the issue.
I believe the only proper fix is to send the whole steering column off to BBA reman to have it rebuilt.
Cant remember how much it cost, but it may be available on their website.
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On a semi OT note. Some Audi A6s with electro-hydraulic pas wont start if parked at full lock ;D :D, due to the voltage drain by the pump..
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... and full electric (a motor on the rack). ....
& as said, some are on the column ... that's what the lump in the column is ;)
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Thank you gentlemen. Now I wonder how the motor on the column or the rack works. It must take a hefty current to respond as quickly as is necessary.
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Seems to be one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPEL-VAUXHALL-MERIVA-ELECTRIC-POWER-STEERING-COLUMN-MOTOR-ECU-RIGHT-HAND-DRIVE-/170868413315
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Thank you gentlemen. Now I wonder how the motor on the column or the rack works. It must take a hefty current to respond as quickly as is necessary.
The column mounted ones are just a worm gear, driven by a hefty electric motor. Mechanically it's simpler than a hydraulic system, and as it doesn't require a pump spinning all the time means the manufacturer can claim a 0.0582907MPG(approx) saving.
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Thank you gentlemen. Now I wonder how the motor on the column or the rack works. It must take a hefty current to respond as quickly as is necessary.
The column mounted ones are just a worm gear, driven by a hefty electric motor. Mechanically it's simpler than a hydraulic system, and as it doesn't require a pump spinning all the time means the manufacturer can claim a 0.0582907MPG(approx) saving.
and it's easier to make it speed related
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Thank you gentlemen. Now I wonder how the motor on the column or the rack works. It must take a hefty current to respond as quickly as is necessary.
The column mounted ones are just a worm gear, driven by a hefty electric motor. Mechanically it's simpler than a hydraulic system, and as it doesn't require a pump spinning all the time means the manufacturer can claim a 0.0582907MPG(approx) saving.
Thanks. I see from Haynes that it has a 50 amp fuse, the biggest on petrol Merivas. I can imagine that cutting in and out it keeps the regulator on its toes, and suppose that its ECU trips it out if it does not get the current it demands.
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Sorry to nit pick, but a worm and gear drive from a motor system would leave the driver unable to turn in the event of failure. When failed, the system must leave the driver with steering control, albeit high geared. Searching the web, lots of entries tell me how wonderful EPS is, without explaining how it works.
I could design you an electric fly by wire system, like FL Omega throttles, but not an electric servo system. It must be a sensor and feed back system, applying large torque to the column following the driver's effort.
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Sorry to nit pick, but a worm and gear drive from a motor system would leave the driver unable to turn in the event of failure. When failed, the system must leave the driver with steering control, albeit high geared.
Terry, that's exactly what happens when it does fail(very common on Puntos), and is no different to losing the drive belt on hydraulic PAS. You're left with a system with gear ratios designed to be powered, so it's naturally heavy. Plus you have to fight the power mechanism -whether hydraulics or a motor - which makes it heavier still.
All the column mounted systems I've seen use a motor mounted so the spindle is across the column. The housing that does that isn't big enough to accommodate any other sort of gearing than a worm. Nor is there any need to. There's an ECU that uses sensors to vary the amount of assistance that the motor provides, but I don't care how the angry pixies inside the magic box actually do that.
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Sorry to nit pick, but a worm and gear drive from a motor system would leave the driver unable to turn in the event of failure. When failed, the system must leave the driver with steering control, albeit high geared. Searching the web, lots of entries tell me how wonderful EPS is, without explaining how it works.
I could design you an electric fly by wire system, like FL Omega throttles, but not an electric servo system. It must be a sensor and feed back system, applying large torque to the column following the driver's effort.
Worms can be reverse driven... Omega steering box for one ::)