Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: swordfish on 10 December 2016, 16:34:16
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wonder if anybody can help ,, the 2.6 just cut out today, and just will not start ,
thanks in advance
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Crank sensor is high on list of likely culprits
Any fault codes? :y
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MAF is worth considering too, especially if the car was trying to idle at the time it cut out.
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are aftermarket crank sensors worth buying
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are aftermarket crank sensors worth buying
NO . . . IMHO & many others on here . . genuine only . .purchased by visiting a VX dealer . .
don't buy from internet or it will end in tears :'( :'( :'(
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are aftermarket crank sensors worth buying
I have a perfectly good Genuine GM one here that will fit your car.
Used, but works fine.
It's only right that I advise you that new is better, for long term, but if it helps you test or gets you out of a hole..... :y
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great ,, how much posted please
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ok thanks,,
i have just noticed that there are no warning lights on the dash when i turn the ignition on . ??
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anybody experienced this before;;
thanks in advance
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Does it still turn over? Is the computer display on? Headlights etc work?
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You need to do some basic electrical fault finding.
Check for blown fuses and broken wires (or loose crimped terminals) on top of the battery for a start.
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yes checked all the fuses , and all the connections everything works and it spins over ok
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yes checked all the fuses , and all the connections everything works and it spins over ok
I thought you said that you had no warning lights :-\
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sorry no everything but ignition lights
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everything works apart from the ignition lights
the ones in the speedo rev cluster ??
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A failed crank sensor won't necessarily put the engine management light on. Do the pefal trick & see what code (if any) it comes up with.
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swapped the crank sensor already for the one off my other 3.2 and it still wont start
is there a how to guide on the pedal trick
thanks
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90581.0 :y
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Think I am correct in saying that if crank sensor is ok . . as you turn ignition on the rev counter needle just flicks a tad .
But as you say you have no dash lights at all . . . so this may not be the case in your situation as the whole dash pod may not be working :-\ If not already done . .. try reseating the pod by pushing firmly towards front of car . But IMO unlikely an incorrectly located pod would stop the engine from turning over.
I would be asking the question on here of which fuse/fuses or earthing points are liable to stop these dash lights from coming on . HTH :y
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swapped the crank sensor already for the one off my other 3.2 and it still wont start
is there a how to guide on the pedal trick
thanks
I thought they were type specific? :-\ :-\ :-\
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swapped the crank sensor already for the one off my other 3.2 and it still wont start
is there a how to guide on the pedal trick
thanks
I thought they were type specific? :-\ :-\ :-\
Post no. 1 says 2.6 . . . . 2.6 & 3.2 use the same crank sensor I believe
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well that stops the pedal trick because no dash lights to flash up ,,
could it be ecu immobilizer failure ,, or dash pod failure i wonder ??
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Think I am correct in saying that if crank sensor is ok . . as you turn ignition on the rev counter needle just flicks a tad .
But as you say you have no dash lights at all . . . so this may not be the case in your situation as the whole dash pod may not be working :-\ If not already done . .. try reseating the pod by pushing firmly towards front of car . But IMO unlikely an incorrectly located pod would stop the engine from turning over.
I would be asking the question on here of which fuse/fuses or earthing points are liable to stop these dash lights from coming on . HTH :y
Sorry have just read through complete thread again . . .So engine does turn over but will not start & there are no dash lights at all in any key position?
Is there any life from the dash pod at all ? are indicator greens working when switched on , main beam blue when flashed? background lights for dash etc. ?
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correct , everything works but the dash pod lights and it spins over as it should
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correct , everything works but the dash pod lights and it spins over as it should
Electrics are not my strong point sadly ,so you may to wait for a more knowledgeable oofer to reply,
but if no warning lights at all, it may be worth checking out the ecu connection in the main relay/fuse box next to the battery. (black triangular shaped box . . lid flips from the front) may be worth unlatching & relocating the ECU connection :-\ :-\ but only a suggestion
Also there a couple of main electrical push in connector blocks below/side of battery area :-\
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ok thanks
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Check the separate Black Earth Cable strap to the ECU is not loose, check the 2 ECU main plugs are tight, or undo re connect them, check all your Battery terms and main Earth is all tight etc. on the 2.6/3.2's just before you crank the Engine you should hear some relay clicks type sound from the throttle Boddies and the purple relay(s) in the front fuse box.
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well that stops the pedal trick because no dash lights to flash up ,,
could it be ecu immobilizer failure ,, or dash pod failure i wonder ??
Are you saying the engine lights do NOT come on with ign? If not, fix that first.
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i have just checked. the lights work main beam and warning light works indicators work and i can here the clicking relays nr the battery ,,it seems its just the warning lights in the pod that are not coming on
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i have just fitted a new pod but still no ignition lights
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i have just checked. the lights work main beam and warning light works indicators work and i can here the clicking relays nr the battery ,,it seems its just the warning lights in the pod that are not coming on
Would that suggest that the ignition & possibly ECU side of things is not powering up ? :-\
Help required here from someone who can tell you what supplies power to the warning lights :-\
You say fuses are all ok . . . but is there power to the one/s relevant to the warning lights /ignition etc.?
Will try & get some wiring info for you if nothing gets posted
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many thanks
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many thanks
sorry Swordfish but am out of my depth with this . . .only have haynes wiring diagrams to go on & 2.6 /3.2 is not covered ::)
Qne last possibility . . .have you checked ALL the fuses & links in both the boxes under bonnet by the battery as well as the main cabin fuse box ? Only F1 to F30 are in the cabin fuse box . :-[
Sorry I cannot be of more help
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Your original fault sounds exactly like my 2.6 did/is. I stripped mine down, replaced the crank sensor only to find the fuel pump is faulty. When I removed the pump, cleaned and powered from the battery it worked and on refitting it worked only for it to go again after leaving it to rest for half an hour.
However all my dash lights work ok, so it could just be a coincidence??
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Your original fault sounds exactly like my 2.6 did/is. I stripped mine down, replaced the crank sensor only to find the fuel pump is faulty. When I removed the pump, cleaned and powered from the battery it worked and on refitting it worked only for it to go again after leaving it to rest for half an hour.
However all my dash lights work ok, so it could just be a coincidence??
A pump nearing the end of it's life may well become intermittent - I don't think you should assume that your pump is a good one :-\
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If ign lights not coming on with ign, that needs to be resolved before considering changing anything
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Swordfish . . .your PM box is full ;)
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ok,, inbox clear
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I would definitely be checking the 'big' fuses in the engine compartment.
I recall I had a similar issue with a Vectra, refusing to start and no engine lights, I found one the 30 or 60 amps :-\ had blown. New fuse and everything was lovely again :)
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already checked all them ,, does anybody know if the engine ecu / immobiliser is the same on the auto and manual . going to check them next ,
thanks
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already checked all them ,, does anybody know if the engine ecu / immobiliser is the same on the auto and manual . going to check them next ,
thanks
My thought was also the large fused links under bonnet . . .but you have checked those :-\
I also posted questions in "electricals" asking which fuses supply the dash warnings , but no reply as yet
Becoming a bit frustrating this one :-\ :-\ Faulty ignition switch/ broken wire there maybe could be it :-\ :-\
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ok thanks ,, do you know if the engine ecu / immobiliser is the same on the auto and manual
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ok thanks ,, do you know if the engine ecu / immobiliser is the same on the auto and manual
Not 100% on that . . .but seem to remember you have to replace with the exact same part / No.
But replacing ECU will require , the ECU itself, the matching Imobilisor ring & key chip
Have just recalled this . . .This event happened to both myself & I think it was Zirk from memory . . .
Replaced crank sensor (as you have done) but car still would not start until codes were cleared . . .of course this
does not dismiss the fact you have no dash warning lights . . which IMO is the priority to put right first .
Which begs the question . . will codes clear with a code reader if your electrics are not powering up fully .
i'm getting really frustrated with this problem now as we cannot seem to make any progress . . .so you must be feeling
really peed off with it :-\
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Just been playing around with my 2.6 auto to try & shed some light on this problem .
Double check the large fused links in the small box directly on top of the battery .
On my car there are 5 links fitted out of a possible 6 . Starting from the left, standing in front of the car, looking towards back of the car ,
far left No.1 is a mauve colour fused link with 80 on it. Removing this with the ignition on left the warning lights on .
Next along No.2 has no fuse
Next No.3 is green ,rated at 30, removing this with ign on & dash warnings lights stay on.
Next No.4 this is a mauve 80 rating . . .removing this & dash warnings go out
With no 4 replaced . . . & No's 5 & 6 removed induvidually . . .ign warnings stayed on
I would suggest that you firstly check fused link No 4 & if ok . . then check with a meter that there is power to one side of that particular fuse holder when ignition is on then post up outcome
Also with ignition on, pulled the 2 large fused links next to the mauve relays in the triangular relay box . These had no effect on the dash warning lights. After this fuse pulling exercise . .car is starting A1 as before ;)
HTH ;)
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Thank god for that you are a brave man playing with those fuses :y
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Thank god for that you are a brave man playing with those fuses :y
Why ? can you explain ? , as if it will cause problems I would like to warn OP before he touches his .
But it would seem there are no issues after pulling mine :-\ :-\
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ok thanks for that i will try it out on monday :y :y
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ok thanks for that i will try it out on monday :y :y
Any news on this Swordfish ? :-\ :-\
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just checked power at the fuse conection and getting full 13 volts
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just checked power at the fuse conection and getting full 13 volts
That's not really enough, and points to a charging issue. Checking all of the battery and alternator connections is now first on your list of things to do.
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how can it require more than 13 volts :-\ :-\
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how can it require more than 13 volts :-\ :-\
I think Nick means that with engine running , and therefore charging, reading should be around 14.4 volts
Hence he mentions charging issue
With engine not running usual reading with a good battery is circa 12.4 volts :-\
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Sounds like an ECU issue to me....
Manual and Auto ECU's are different.... dunno if you can fit an Auto ECU to a manual, but its worth a try just to see if the warning lights illuminate..... maybe try to start the engine but not drive it...?
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already swapped them inc the immobilizer ring
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already swapped them inc the immobilizer ring
so you have changed the engine ECU , imomobiliser ring & key chip ?
and you still have no dash lights ?
Could the ignition switch itself be at fault here ? as in operating the starter circuit in position 3 but not switching ignition circuit on in position 2 ?
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yes
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yes
I added a bit to my last post about the ignition switch.
Maybe it is fubared & although switching on the starter circuit in pos 3 . . .it has failed & wont switch on the ignition , relays, ECU circuits (in normal running position 2 )
the old term "hot wire" would be applicable here to test . but be careful . . .you have to make sure you are connecting the correct wires here , otherwise serious damage may occur.
Someone on oof with a good understanding of the ignition switch wiring may be able to tell you which wires to test & "hot wire" Caution here is very important ;) ;)
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You have replaced the dash bulbs?
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replaced the full dash pod
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Didn't answer the question...
In any case would need to be from same engine type.
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Didn't answer the question...
In any case would need to be from same engine type.
confused myself here now Al . . . Ecu or dash pod has to be from same engine type . .or both ?
Chances of all dash bulbs being blown on both pods must be very unlikely IMO
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how do i test the bulbs ?? with no lights coming on in the first place
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Didn't answer the question...
In any case would need to be from same engine type.
confused myself here now Al . . . Ecu or dash pod has to be from same engine type . .or both ?
Chances of all dash bulbs being blown on both pods must be very unlikely IMO
The question was if the bulbs had been changed.
The answer was that the pod had.
Which raises two more questions... firstly that the bulbs in the new cluster have at least been checked... and secondly that the cluster is from the same engine type... would like to say what effect putting a diesel cluster in would have...
I had credited op with not fitting the wrong ecu as the plugs differ.
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how do i test the bulbs ?? with no lights coming on in the first place
Are they all present would be a start :-X
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Ok see whre you are now Al . . Op was recently asking for an ECU from the same model so thats should be ok .
But can see that if this issue has caused all the original dash bulbs to blow . . .by changing the complete pod (hopefully for the correct one to suit the car & engine) the same bulb blow would occur when the replacement was fitted & switched on . ::)
IMO what the OP needs to find out is . . .is power getting to the ignition circuits ?
hence my question about the ignition switch.
is it possible to check if power is getting to the ignition switch & then is it coming out again & powering up the systems ?
Just remembered had a very similar thing on a transit van . . no ignition lights at pos 2 but engine would turn over at position 3 (start) but would not start . Fault was faulty ignition switch :y
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just checked all the bulbs all 4 are ok
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Something that blows every bulb in the cluster ought to produce smoke/blow fuses.
Equally, not checking bulbs in new, or old cluster, confirms nothing other than they cannot be ruled out.
If the car is ex plod, then it could be a broken connection where the primary ignition feed is cut for a runlock.
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dont think its e police,, how do i check this ignition feed connection
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just checked all the bulbs all 4 are ok
Try again. Check EVERY bulb as they share a common ground. And look for evidence of aching on the pcb and contact points: both the cluster and dash.
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dont think its e police,, how do i check this ignition feed connection
Was the speedo calibrated?
It's the oppsing great big red wired. Be obvious if it's cut. Assuming you have the cowling off. Tails get stuffed down the side of the column.
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no its not ex police then. the red wire goes straight in to the starter switch with a pink sheath
i will check the 4 bulbs again
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dont think its e police,, how do i check this ignition feed connection
Was the speedo calibrated?
It's the oppsing great big red wired. Be obvious if it's cut. Assuming you have the cowling off. Tails get stuffed down the side of the column.
Can the Op check, by using a basic meter, that firstly, there is power to the ignition switch , and then once in the on postion 2, there is power coming out to feed circuits ?
A question of which wire is the power feed to the switch & which wire is the power return once switch is at on (pos 2)
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all the bulbs are still ok .
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when at position 2,, the heater fan , lights , radio , indicators , main beam computer ect all still come on . but no dash lights ??
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when at position 2,, the heater fan , lights , radio , indicators , main beam computer ect all still come on . but no dash lights ??
Ok . . so power is getting to switch & coming out again . . . but seems like ignition & it's related systems are not powering up.
Any advice from anyone to the Op as to next move on this ? :-\ :-\
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sorry mistake. the computer display also is inoperative
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all the bulbs are still ok .
If my help is to be of any value, follow the instructions...
Check ALL THE BULBS. There's a damn sight more than 4.
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all the bulbs are still ok .
If my help is to be of any value, follow the instructions...
Check ALL THE BULBS. There's a damn sight more than 4.
I value your advice Al . . .& always have done . . .but would a blown dash warning bulb/s stop the car from starting ?
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yes i stand corrected,, 2 bulbs blown at the computer display plug end
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just refitted the dash pod , computer display now comes on but no dash warning / ignition lights ??? ???
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when at position 2,, the heater fan , lights , radio , indicators , main beam computer ect all still come on . but no dash lights ??
The fact that your indicators & heater blower work at pos 2 shows that the ignition switch is working at pos2 as am sure these only work at that position.
Front & rear lights should work even with the key out of ignition as should headlight flasher & dash illumination .
IMO & I may well be wrong here . . but it all points to the wiring that powers the ignition & its associated systems . . .& main fuses under the bonnet would be the obvious place to start . . . but you say these have all been checked
So not sure how you can proceed from here :( :(
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think next port of call is a new pod
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think next port of call is a new pod
We could ask the question "Will a 2.6 omega still start & run with the dash pod removed ? "
If so . .will save you getting yet another pod.
Seem to remember my 3.2 breaker was still running with the dash pod removed . . . memorys a bit cloudy
, but I am sure I moved it about several times with half the interior, including the dash pod, missing ::) ::)
I bet RobG will know ;)
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good idea ,, Will a 2.6 omega still start & run with the dash pod removed
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Yes but not advised.
Is it auto or manual?
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auto
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Right, assuming that ALL the bulbs in the cluster are present and functioning you have seven plugs to check.
Firstly ignition off and key out. Dash intact.
In order, Unplug, disconnect and reseat the following:
1. BOTH plugs on the ecu.
2. ALL 3 round plugs next to the battery.
3. BOTH large plugs at the base of the Passenger A pillar.
Then and only then try to restart the car and report back.
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done all that , still no dash lights
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Same two plugs, but driver's side...
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ok thankyou . back at home now so i will check tomorrow
thanks for your time
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All the dash connections are through those plugs... One for each body loom left and right, one for ecu/engine/gearbox and there's a loom that runs across between both footwells but it all comes via the battery plugs and primary fuse box (the one with the big fuses)...
If it isn't that, then you're probably looking at a new dash loom... It's either a connection issue or an earthing one, but without the car here it's difficult to be sure.
If you're certain that all the primary plugs and cluster pcb/cluster contacts are all sound and secure, then all that leaves is testing the loom between each point to check for breaks.
Last ditch could be to pull the radio and see if it makes any difference. Will dig through the factory wiring diagrams to see if there's anything else that stands out... :-\
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This might all read as being a bit condescending, it isn't meant as such, but rather to be direct so that there is absolutely NO ambiguity in what is being asked of you.
Right, if we're clear on that... There's only one thing that affects the lights that aren't working.
The following should see normal service resumed, but depends on your following the instructions to the letter. Don't presume that because you have 'checked' something that it is ok, and it is critical that the ORIGINAL cluster is used, as the wiring varies from engine to engine, and it is the ONLY way to be certain that everything is in order. Read the order through and ask if anything isn't clear.
When you get back to the car, reconnect everything, if not already, and ensure that the handbrake is on.
Then, on the ORIGINAL cluster, you should have 20 lights fitted to it... (21 if factory towbar).
Three larger yellow capped ones and a mixture of smaller ones, mostly turquoise and orange iirc.
1. Make sure that ALL of these are present and not blown.
2. Whilst checking the bulbs, look for any signs of scorching on the PCB, both where the bulbs are and the socket contacts and also for any signs of arcing or breaks.
3. Refit the original cluster ensuring that the Radio display is connected and be sure to push the cluster home fully.
4. Replace Fuse 15. This is 20A. Use a BRAND NEW fuse.
5. Turn the ignition to 2. Dash should light up like a Christmas tree. Eventually you'll be left with Handbrake light, Battery Light and Oil light.
6. Start the car. Should now be left with only Handbrake light. And everything else working as normal.
Report back.
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This might all read as being a bit condescending, it isn't meant as such, but rather to be direct so that there is absolutely NO ambiguity in what is being asked of you.
Right, if we're clear on that... There's only one thing that affects the lights that aren't working.
The following should see normal service resumed, but depends on your following the instructions to the letter. Don't presume that because you have 'checked' something that it is ok, and it is critical that the ORIGINAL cluster is used, as the wiring varies from engine to engine, and it is the ONLY way to be certain that everything is in order. Read the order through and ask if anything isn't clear.
When you get back to the car, reconnect everything, if not already, and ensure that the handbrake is on.
Then, on the ORIGINAL cluster, you should have 20 lights fitted to it... (21 if factory towbar).
Three larger yellow capped ones and a mixture of smaller ones, mostly turquoise and orange iirc.
1. Make sure that ALL of these are present and not blown.
2. Whilst checking the bulbs, look for any signs of scorching on the PCB, both where the bulbs are and the socket contacts and also for any signs of arcing or breaks.
3. Refit the original cluster ensuring that the Radio display is connected and be sure to push the cluster home fully.
4. Replace Fuse 15. This is 20A. Use a BRAND NEW fuse.
5. Turn the ignition to 2. Dash should light up like a Christmas tree. Eventually you'll be left with Handbrake light, Battery Light and Oil light.
6. Start the car. Should now be left with only Handbrake light. And everything else working as normal.
Report back.
Seems like you have been busy on this problem Al :y
I am following this with interest as also have been trying to help Swordfish.
Also not being ambiguous myself , but, Swordfish , you need to follow Dr. Gollums procedure "to the letter" as he states.
Good luck , hope this may find the fault or at least make some headway :y
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:y :y
thankyou so much for your help after all that it was the 20 amp fuse and it started right away
kind regards
carl
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:y :y
thankyou so much for your help after all that it was the 20 amp fuse and it started right away
kind regards
carl
WHAT ! but you checked all the fuses weeks ago when it happened :o :o :o :o
At least we have got to the bottom of it ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Well done . & .its running again 8) 8)
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Job jobbed then :y
As soon as I looked at the diagram for the cluster it was immediately obvious as all the warning lights are fed from that one point. Needed to be certain before getting to that, that all the previous work was ruled out of the equation... ;)
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Instructive thead! Congratulations to all participants on their persistance.
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:y :y
thankyou so much for your help after all that it was the 20 amp fuse and it started right away
kind regards
carl
Those flat bladed fuses can be a bugger for that. They can suffer a stress fracture which is barely visible. Once broken they then make intermittent contact which makes fault finding a lottery - hence DGs instruction to fit a new fuse.
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:y :y
thankyou so much for your help after all that it was the 20 amp fuse and it started right away
kind regards
carl
WHAT ! but you checked all the fuses weeks ago when it happened :o :o :o :o
At least we have got to the bottom of it ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Well done . & .its running again 8) 8)
::) ::) ::)