Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: ronnyd on 25 February 2017, 18:26:05
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Read on teletext news today that some Government minister (transport secretary Chris Grayling) says that motorists should "think long and hard" before they buy a diesel car. That should kill off the sales of older ones i would have thought. But it was in the Daily Fail so who knows. Any thoughts?
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Read further into it, he said if you live and do driving within a city centre consider other options. The reality is actual driving in city centres or London congestion zone is very minimal. It won't impact sales that much, how often to people drive in central London?
Too much hype of "this will kill diesel" - "diesel car sales are dead" it's all a load of 'dangle berries', slowly there will be a transition as car tax is now based on purchase price, Co2 is now irrelevant for tax/VED. (from 1st April 2017)
So in 10 years time, yes prob more petrol around, but this will be a slow transition. Just as big 6 or 8 cylinder cars had £500 tax bracket in 2006-17 era.
£500 tax did not exactly slow car sales, some idiots even bought a Vectra Signum which is £45 a month to tax. ::) ;D
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Read further into it, he said if you live and do driving within a city centre consider other options. The reality is actual driving in city centres or London congestion zone is very minimal. It won't impact sales that much, how often to people drive in central London?
Too much hype of "this will kill diesel" - "diesel car sales are dead" it's all a load of 'dangle berries', slowly there will be a transition as car tax is now based on purchase price, Co2 is now irrelevant for tax/VED. (from 1st April 2017)
So in 10 years time, yes prob more petrol around, but this will be a slow transition. Just as big 6 or 8 cylinder cars had £500 tax bracket in 2006-17 era.
£500 tax did not exactly slow car sales, some idiots even bought a Vectra Signum which is £45 a month to tax. ::) ;D
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Strewth.......there really are some thick bastards around. :) £500+ to tax a crappy old Vecsig. ;D
Seriously though derv is dead in the water. I think even the most ardent 'lorry fuel' fan would think twice about spending forty thousand quid on a new car powered by the spawn of Satan.
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If doing the miles, I'd still consider a £40k diesel (if I had the money). Jag XJ diesel, BMW 530d Estate 8)
But in reality I would never spend that much on a car, unless doing PCP type scheme.
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I think that it wont take ten years to have serious a impact on diesels. I think its likely that in the next couple of years, sales of new diesels will fall off a cliff due to all the adverse publicity. Resale values on used diesels will then also fall off a cliff, and they will pretty quickly start to become a pretty rare sight on UK roads.
Time will tell though.
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If doing the miles, I'd still consider a £40k diesel (if I had the money). Jag XJ diesel, BMW 530d Estate 8)
But in reality I would never spend that much on a car, unless doing PCP type scheme.
That is more insane than paying £500 to tax a Signum. :) :)
I agree with Albitz comments. :y
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Clearly some of the car manufacturers saw this coming. The 340i being an example of a high output petrol engine with low co2 output. Ten years ago they wouldn't have bothered developing such an engine because it was all diesel, diesel and more diesel.
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Well we had a thread on this a couple of weeks back.
I still feel the very real environmental concerns will accelerate the demonisation of diesel cars. Quite how that will pan out in say Spain where only about 1 in ten cars possibly less are petrol, who knows. You only need a good scrappage scheme, punitive road tax, incentives on electric cars and further improvements on batteries . The fact is that many European cities are polluted to hell and vehicles , including diesels are a contributor. It isn't just London in the UK.
We are having trouble sourcing a Nissan 2.0 petrol auto - currently one for sale in Spain. there are 16 2.0 diesels for sale. They are also a much better car performance wise!! Might waver back to the dark side... :o
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Well we had a thread on this a couple of weeks back.
I still feel the very real environmental concerns will accelerate the demonisation of diesel cars. Quite how that will pan out in say Spain where only about 1 in ten cars possibly less are petrol, who knows. You only need a good scrappage scheme, punitive road tax, incentives on electric cars and further improvements on batteries . The fact is that many European cities are polluted to hell and vehicles , including diesels are a contributor. It isn't just London in the UK.
We are having trouble sourcing a Nissan 2.0 petrol auto - currently one for sale in Spain. there are 16 2.0 diesels for sale. They are also a much better car performance wise!! Might waver back to the dark side... :o
A lot of manufacturers have put all their R&D eggs in the diseasel basket. It will be interesting to see how quickly they respond with competitive petrol models.
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I am sure they will. There are some very power turbo small petrol engines around.
We are looking at diesel 150 hp and bags of torque or 140hp petrol and less torque. Plus conventional auto 6 sp gearbox or CVT always revving but efficient on the petrol.
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I for one will not mourn the imminent demise of derv.
Having said that I can understand why many people will be pissed off after following government advice and buying cars fitted with engines only suitable for a lorry and canal boat.
Petrol and hydrogen fuel cell is the way forward in my view. Glorified milk floats can sod off as well. :y
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It does make me chuckle at all the comments of 'diesel is dead' no more 'diesel' cars, petrol only. Diesel sales/value will fall of a cliff, well it's just not!!
Go now and Search on Auto Trader, go see how many of the following are available in Petrol:
Seat Alhambra
VW Touran/Sharan
Ford Galaxy
etc... eg Mum busses!
Current AutoTrader numbers:
Ford Galaxy (£10k+):
Diesel (680)
Petrol (22)
Seat Alhambra (£10k+):
Diesel (320)
Petrol (10)
Sod all, nearly everything out there is diesel and that's not going to change over night. Or this decade. ::)
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It does make me chuckle at all the comments of 'diesel is dead' no more 'diesel' cars, petrol only. Diesel sales/value will fall of a cliff, well it's just not!!
Go now and Search on Auto Trader, go see how many of the following are available in Petrol:
Seat Alhambra
VW Touran/Sharan
Ford Galaxy
etc... eg Mum busses!
Current AutoTrader numbers:
Ford Galaxy (£10k+):
Diesel (680)
Petrol (22)
Seat Alhambra (£10k+):
Diesel (320)
Petrol (10)
Sod all, nearly everything out there is diesel and that's not going to change over night. Or this decade. ::)
But these cars already exist, Mr Tunnie.
When it comes to a new purchase I believe many/most people will be wary of spending a large sum of money on a new diesel.
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But that's going to take at least 5-10 years to cycle off what is currently out there on the market, also why would they?
Tax now is based on purchase price, not Co2, so unless petrol's are going to be far cheaper to buy, will the market change that much?
Park (excuse the pun) central London congestion charge, that means sod all to 99% of buyers. The reason people switched to diesel is dirt cheap VED (£30/y) - With neither petrol or diesel offering a huge difference VED wise, I can't see a huge swing back to petrol.
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Also don't forget company cars or PCP/lease, with VED not an issue company car drivers will want most MPG wise, so still diesel!
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Also don't forget company cars or PCP/lease, with VED not an issue company car drivers will want most MPG wise, so still diesel!
;D ;D ;D Some wee just came out :-[
End user will pay the for the increases via higher rentals ::) Fuel duty increases will take care of the rest.
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Also don't forget company cars or PCP/lease, with VED not an issue company car drivers will want most MPG wise, so still diesel!
;D ;D ;D Some wee just came out :-[
End user will pay the for the increases via higher rentals ::) Fuel duty increases will take care of the rest.
So that explains why the 2017 S-Max Titanium Lease deal I've been looking at is £239 per month for a diesel, but the cheapest petrol on offer is £274 ??? - But a same spec Titanium in Petrol is £304 per month.
Yeah, diesel is really going to fall behind in sales!
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I'd buy it quick, Tunnie. Budget next week. Expect a punitive first-year tax rate to be announced, at least. ;)
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I'd buy it quick, Tunnie. Budget next week. Expect a punitive first-year tax rate to be announced, at least. ;)
That's only way they will kill diesel, but VED appears based on purchase cost only?
Unless new diesels have £500 first year tax or something. Or £2k levy for diesels on new cars
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That's only way they will kill diesel, but VED appears based on purchase cost only?
Unless new diesels have £500 first year tax or something. Or £2k levy for diesels on new cars
Anything is possible. There's a lot of panic lobbying going on with regard to air quality so who knows what way they will go?
On the up side, there'll probably be a scrappage scheme too so you can get a discount off your next milk float. ;)
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I'm just hoping that they will take into account old cars which were produced as diesel models but don't actually run on diesel.
If they let us register the cars as "alternative fuel", I will be a happy man.
If they don't, the Omega ( and its planned successors for most of the next decade) will have to go, and the 190D will be exchanged for part payment on a hateful, characterless tiny little euroshitebox. :'( :'(