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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 14:51:40

Title: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 14:51:40
I was talking to a guy who reads meters for a living today and he was bemoaning the fact that his job will be gone when everyone has a smart meter. I told him I wouldn't have one, to which he replied that everyone would have to.
Being an old bastid, I don't like being told what to do. So, how are these meters connected to the network? If it's wirelessly through your router, are you obliged to give them the password if you don't want to? And what's to stop you changing the password once the meter is installed?
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: aaronjb on 24 March 2017, 14:55:12
2G or 3G, I believe - the mobile network.

So .. line your meter cabinet with lead sheet that you've nicked off the local church roof and you're golden.

Though IIRC in the US they are starting to use meters that communicate back (unencrypted, naturally) over the powerlines themselves (hey, Kevin, ethernet over powerline! You HAM guys love that, right?  :D ) so you'd have no option but to cut off your own electricity and live like a hermit in SLady bitshorpe a cave.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 14:59:47
2G or 3G, I believe - the mobile network.

So .. line your meter cabinet with lead sheet that you've nicked off the local church roof and you're golden.

Though IIRC in the US they are starting to use meters that communicate back (unencrypted, naturally) over the powerlines themselves (hey, Kevin, ethernet over powerline! You HAM guys love that, right?  :D ) so you'd have no option but to cut off your own electricity and live like a hermit in SLady bitshorpe a cave.
Ah....that's ok...we hardly ever get a signal indoors, and definitely not in the cupboard (old pantry) in the kitchen where the electric meter is.  :)
So, the compromise would be: I'll have a smart meter if you can wangle me a good signal indoors.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Lincs Robert on 24 March 2017, 15:01:37
They have SIM cards fitted so will connect that way.

I understand that the installers carry multiple SIM cards so that they can choose whichever network has the best signal at your location.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Terbs on 24 March 2017, 15:03:45
Been some reports of these meters sending silly reports, and the public being sent bills at over £3000 each. ???
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 15:09:41
They have SIM cards fitted so will connect that way.

I understand that the installers carry multiple SIM cards so that they can choose whichever network has the best signal at your location.
Interesting, Robert. So, if I buy a sim-free phone, can I take the SIM from the meter and make free calls?  ;D
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 15:11:27
Been some reports of these meters sending silly reports, and the public being sent bills at over £3000 each. ???
With my wife, Tony, that would be about the right amount  :( Her mother ran a working mens club in Gateshead, everything was paid for by the brewery and old habits die hard.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: zirk on 24 March 2017, 15:12:59
They have SIM cards fitted so will connect that way.

I understand that the installers carry multiple SIM cards so that they can choose whichever network has the best signal at your location.
Interesting, Robert. So, if I buy a sim-free phone, can I take the SIM from the meter and make free calls?  ;D
Yes, if you can speak ISDN.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 24 March 2017, 15:14:26
Customers are paying for smart meters and not utility companies. So even if you don't have one you will still be paying for one. :)
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 15:17:04
True, but at least they won't be able to read my brainwaves. My tinfoil hat makes my head sweaty, esp in the summer months.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Mister Rog on 24 March 2017, 15:33:12

My concern, for which I have yet to see an absolute denial or confirmation of, is that they will be tied to a specific supplier, IE: only the supplier that fits it can read it. Therefore, switching would become much harder.

Anyone know much about this one way or the other ?

 :-\
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 March 2017, 15:46:55
2G or 3G, I believe - the mobile network.

So .. line your meter cabinet with lead sheet that you've nicked off the local church roof and you're golden.

Though IIRC in the US they are starting to use meters that communicate back (unencrypted, naturally) over the powerlines themselves (hey, Kevin, ethernet over powerline! You HAM guys love that, right?  :D ) so you'd have no option but to cut off your own electricity and live like a hermit in SLady bitshorpe a cave.

Fortunately, that sort of poor technology won't work with the supply infrastructure in the UK, so they are using mobile phone tech.

This reminds me. My supplier sent me a letter before Christmas announcing that I need to contact them to arrange to have one fitted. I was about to go on holiday, so my response was "meh".

If they happen to turn up with one while I'm in, then happy days, but it's of no benefit to me, so I'm not going to waste time negotiating their call centre, and then have to take time off work for them to turn up and fit it. Actually, my fixed rate runs out next month, so they might want to wait a while, just in case. ;D
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Lincs Robert on 24 March 2017, 15:59:42
They have SIM cards fitted so will connect that way.

I understand that the installers carry multiple SIM cards so that they can choose whichever network has the best signal at your location.
Interesting, Robert. So, if I buy a sim-free phone, can I take the SIM from the meter and make free calls?  ;D

Nice try, but the SIM will be a data only one and also be sealed inside the meter somehow.

Another question gets raised - how does a smart gas meter get the power it needs for the smart gubbins/SIM card etc? Is it connected to the smart electric meter? Can't see how that would work otherwise ......
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Lincs Robert on 24 March 2017, 16:11:02
They have SIM cards fitted so will connect that way.

I understand that the installers carry multiple SIM cards so that they can choose whichever network has the best signal at your location.
Interesting, Robert. So, if I buy a sim-free phone, can I take the SIM from the meter and make free calls?  ;D

Seems the electric meter has the smarts & uses "unmetered" power to power a hub which includes the SIM modem etc. The smart gas meter is battery operated and communicates with the hub in the smart electric meter using a low power system called Zigbee. The battery is designed to last 10 years and will call for help when it needs replacing.

So, you can have an electric smart meter, smart electric and gas, but not smart gas only. The hub also powers the display for the householder.

Nice try, but the SIM will be a data only one and also be sealed inside the meter somehow.

Another question gets raised - how does a smart gas meter get the power it needs for the smart gubbins/SIM card etc? Is it connected to the smart electric meter? Can't see how that would work otherwise ......
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: aaronjb on 24 March 2017, 16:34:46
Ah yes, Zigbee, that totally secure protocol (http://www.networkworld.com/article/2969402/microsoft-subnet/researchers-exploit-zigbee-security-flaws-that-compromise-security-of-smart-homes.html)  :)
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 March 2017, 16:49:17
Ah yes, Zigbee, that totally secure protocol (http://www.networkworld.com/article/2969402/microsoft-subnet/researchers-exploit-zigbee-security-flaws-that-compromise-security-of-smart-homes.html)  :)

It's an IoT device so the security can be found filed under "TODO" in the project plan. ::)
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 16:57:34
Right. So I'm not having one then. I'll be on the news, refusing to be digitised while EDF try to starve me out.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: powerslinky on 24 March 2017, 17:26:54
Talking "water"  here  . . . got some smart meters on my patch  . . . makes it really easy to find leaks on the individual supply. . . as, basicly, the smart meter tells our company that if the useage of a particular household never goes to zero  . . .there must be a leak of some kind  .           Simples !     

 I then go round there & find it  ;) ;)      I've had a few leaks up around the 1000  litres per hour mark  on domestic properties :o :o
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 17:34:46
Talking "water"  here  . . . got some smart meters on my patch  . . . makes it really easy to find leaks on the individual supply. . . as, basicly, the smart meter tells our company that if the useage of a particular household never goes to zero  . . .there must be a leak of some kind of leak .           Simples !     

 I then go round there & find it  ;) ;)      I've had a few leaks up around the 1000  litres per hour mark  on domestic properties :o :o
That's all well and good, Al, but I live in a four bed, two bath house and pay about £350 a year with no meter. Before we moved we lived in a three bed, one bath house with a meter and I was paying £60 a month, both with Yorkshire water. I'll chance the leak.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: TD on 24 March 2017, 17:43:07
Talking "water"  here  . . . got some smart meters on my patch  . . . makes it really easy to find leaks on the individual supply. . . as, basicly, the smart meter tells our company that if the useage of a particular household never goes to zero  . . .there must be a leak of some kind of leak .           Simples !     

 I then go round there & find it  ;) ;)      I've had a few leaks up around the 1000  litres per hour mark  on domestic properties :o :o
That's all well and good, Al, but I live in a four bed, two bath house and pay about £350 a year with no meter. Before we moved we lived in a three bed, one bath house with a meter and I was paying £60 a month, both with Yorkshire water. I'll chance the leak.

Perhaps you had a leak  ::)
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: powerslinky on 24 March 2017, 17:45:33
Talking "water"  here  . . . got some smart meters on my patch  . . . makes it really easy to find leaks on the individual supply. . . as, basicly, the smart meter tells our company that if the useage of a particular household never goes to zero  . . .there must be a leak of some kind of leak .           Simples !     

 I then go round there & find it  ;) ;)      I've had a few leaks up around the 1000  litres per hour mark  on domestic properties :o :o
That's all well and good, Al, but I live in a four bed, two bath house and pay about £350 a year with no meter. Before we moved we lived in a three bed, one bath house with a meter and I was paying £60 a month, both with Yorkshire water. I'll chance the leak.


Just saying Steve,  from my point of view , for my job of  finding leaks, smart meters are really helpful    ;)

Another point  . . .the public don't seem  to bother about water leaks  . . .  pretty harmless really a water leak in comparison to a gas leak  ::) ::)

As for  your £60 per month  bill  . .  .maybe you had a leak  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Edit . . .must type faster  :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 17:54:26
No leak. Yorkshire water are really good, great customer service too. I queried the charges after my first bill. They sent someone round and told me to turn everything off while they looked at the meter and he got his listening stick thingy out. No internal leaks, just fickin expensive water.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 17:55:54
One thing I could never figure out was the fact that they charged more for draining it away than they did for supplying it.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Lincs Robert on 24 March 2017, 17:58:10
Talking "water"  here  . . . got some smart meters on my patch  . . . makes it really easy to find leaks on the individual supply. . . as, basicly, the smart meter tells our company that if the useage of a particular household never goes to zero  . . .there must be a leak of some kind of leak .           Simples !     

 I then go round there & find it  ;) ;)      I've had a few leaks up around the 1000  litres per hour mark  on domestic properties :o :o
That's all well and good, Al, but I live in a four bed, two bath house and pay about £350 a year with no meter. Before we moved we lived in a three bed, one bath house with a meter and I was paying £60 a month, both with Yorkshire water. I'll chance the leak.

Good on you, but ...... I thought that if you moved to a new property then you had to have a metered supply - even though the previous resident may not have had it.

What was your address again?  ;D
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 18:06:28
Talking "water"  here  . . . got some smart meters on my patch  . . . makes it really easy to find leaks on the individual supply. . . as, basicly, the smart meter tells our company that if the useage of a particular household never goes to zero  . . .there must be a leak of some kind of leak .           Simples !     

 I then go round there & find it  ;) ;)      I've had a few leaks up around the 1000  litres per hour mark  on domestic properties :o :o
That's all well and good, Al, but I live in a four bed, two bath house and pay about £350 a year with no meter. Before we moved we lived in a three bed, one bath house with a meter and I was paying £60 a month, both with Yorkshire water. I'll chance the leak.

Good on you, but ...... I thought that if you moved to a new property then you had to have a metered supply - even though the previous resident may not have had it.

What was your address again?  ;D
Never heard of that, not here anyway. Even if I chose to have a meter in, if I didn't like it, I could have it ignored, but not removed. The next occupiers would then have no option but to use it.
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Terbs on 24 March 2017, 18:20:06
Well, I tried to do my bit, enquired about a smart meter......I refer you to an earlier thread, where I related the story. It was unbelievable!!!!!.
I therefore decided, there and then, there would be no smart meter in this house for as long as it was humanly possible to keep it at bay.
Since then, stories of hacking, extortionate bills, etc, have increased my determination to resist these pieces of technology !!!! ;)
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: powerslinky on 24 March 2017, 18:39:11
Well, I tried to do my bit, enquired about a smart meter......I refer you to an earlier thread, where I related the story. It was unbelievable!!!!!.
I therefore decided, there and then, there would be no smart meter in this house for as long as it was humanly possible to keep it at bay.
Since then, stories of hacking, extortionate bills, etc, have increased my determination to resist these pieces of technology !!!! ;)

Won't do it on here Terbs, but when I see you again , I will fill you in with some details .
It's not all doom & gloom  . .surprisingly  ;D ;D

I don't want one myself at the moment actually  . . .but thats because I DO have a leak on my supply  . . . .just gotta get round to sorting it  :P :P
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: YZ250 on 24 March 2017, 18:53:39
No chance of me having a smart meter as Eon never turned up to fit one on the several occasions that they arranged to fit one.  ::)   On the plus side they credit me with £15 every time they let me down.  :)
I enquired about a smart gas meter when I recently extended as the meter needed moving but British Gas said they could not install one as they are not my electric supplier, and they need the electric to read the meter.   ::)
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: Shackeng on 24 March 2017, 19:29:03
Talking "water"  here  . . . got some smart meters on my patch  . . . makes it really easy to find leaks on the individual supply. . . as, basicly, the smart meter tells our company that if the useage of a particular household never goes to zero  . . .there must be a leak of some kind of leak .           Simples !     

 I then go round there & find it  ;) ;)      I've had a few leaks up around the 1000  litres per hour mark  on domestic properties :o :o
That's all well and good, Al, but I live in a four bed, two bath house and pay about £350 a year with no meter. Before we moved we lived in a three bed, one bath house with a meter and I was paying £60 a month, both with Yorkshire water. I'll chance the leak.


!!! 4/5 bed house, 3 baths, 2 people, metered, £228PA. :y
Title: Re: Smart meters
Post by: STEMO on 24 March 2017, 19:42:26
Talking "water"  here  . . . got some smart meters on my patch  . . . makes it really easy to find leaks on the individual supply. . . as, basicly, the smart meter tells our company that if the useage of a particular household never goes to zero  . . .there must be a leak of some kind of leak .           Simples !     

 I then go round there & find it  ;) ;)      I've had a few leaks up around the 1000  litres per hour mark  on domestic properties :o :o
That's all well and good, Al, but I live in a four bed, two bath house and pay about £350 a year with no meter. Before we moved we lived in a three bed, one bath house with a meter and I was paying £60 a month, both with Yorkshire water. I'll chance the leak.


!!! 4/5 bed house, 3 baths, 2 people, metered, £228PA. :y
Smelly git  ;D