Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Viral_Jim on 21 June 2017, 13:27:37
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This should get the diesel haters moist with anticipation. ;D From next year it looks like a DPF delete is likely to be picked up at MOT time with potential fines for the owner.
https://autotechnician.co.uk/roadworthiness-will-bolster-dpf-checks/ (https://autotechnician.co.uk/roadworthiness-will-bolster-dpf-checks/)
I reckon this may well see a few mid 2000's diesels hit the scrap heap or traded in, I know of a few people who opted for the delete rather than the cost of a new dpf.
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Wonder where you stand with deleting the cats on LPG cars :-\
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I knew someone that had the DPF deleted and the ECU reprogrammed so it didn't put on the EML.
He shortly afterwards sold the car as he emigrated to Spain...
Bet the new owner of the vehicle isn't aware its had its DPF deleted...... :-\
Be worthy of getting an emissions test done with a friendly MOT station, if you've bought a used diesel that should have one fitted, I reckon.
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Wonder where you stand with deleting the cats on LPG cars :-\
AFAIK, petrol cars are judged only on the pass/fail of the emissions test. So if your car passes the test then you are good to go, cat or no cat. I think that's why they've specifically tightened up on the Road worthiness aspect to catch the DPF deletes. As there's no emissions gas test for diesels, then there's no way to fail them.
Personally I'm just glad I managed to land a pre-dpf car.
Be worthy of getting an emissions test done with a friendly MOT station, if you've bought a used diesel that should have one fitted, I reckon.
Yes, I'd be pretty bloody hacked off if the first thing I knew about the dpf delete was an MOT failure and a £1k fine ::)
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
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Wonder where you stand with deleting the cats on LPG cars :-\
AFAIK, petrol cars are judged only on the pass/fail of the emissions test. So if your car passes the test then you are good to go, cat or no cat. I think that's why they've specifically tightened up on the Road worthiness aspect to catch the DPF deletes. As there's no emissions gas test for diesels, then there's no way to fail them.
Personally I'm just glad I managed to land a pre-dpf car.
Be worthy of getting an emissions test done with a friendly MOT station, if you've bought a used diesel that should have one fitted, I reckon.
Yes, I'd be pretty bloody hacked off if the first thing I knew about the dpf delete was an MOT failure and a £1k fine ::)
I think the fine refers to people who actually do the work?
As TD states, you could buy one second hand and not know if it's been gutted or not.
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Wonder where you stand with deleting the cats on LPG cars :-\
AFAIK, petrol cars are judged only on the pass/fail of the emissions test. So if your car passes the test then you are good to go, cat or no cat. I think that's why they've specifically tightened up on the Road worthiness aspect to catch the DPF deletes. As there's no emissions gas test for diesels, then there's no way to fail them.
Personally I'm just glad I managed to land a pre-dpf car.
Be worthy of getting an emissions test done with a friendly MOT station, if you've bought a used diesel that should have one fitted, I reckon.
Yes, I'd be pretty bloody hacked off if the first thing I knew about the dpf delete was an MOT failure and a £1k fine ::)
I think the fine refers to people who actually do the work?
As TD states, you could buy one second hand and not know if it's been gutted or not.
And not know who did the work. Cost you close to a grand to have it replaced.
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This tells me it's the owner who would be held liable:
"The legislation makes the owner or user of the vehicle primarily responsible for its condition. Whether the person who had removed the DPF, or had offered to remove it, had also committed an offence would be a matter for the courts to decide.”
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Glad I bought newish and can see it via my laptop quite happily going through it's cycles....
Certainly would make me cautious of a second hand 2006-12 era diesel, unless I hooked in VAGCOM to check it's DPF had been doing it's stuff.
This tells me it's the owner who would be held liable:
"The legislation makes the owner or user of the vehicle primarily responsible for its condition. Whether the person who had removed the DPF, or had offered to remove it, had also committed an offence would be a matter for the courts to decide.”
Ouch, indeed! :-\
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Yup, I can see this making a "bubble" of very undesirable cars, in the late 2000's era as you say. Similar to the ordinary petrol cars (signum, various saabs and others) that attracted the same £500 ved that was levied on the luxury & performance cars of the same age.
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Yup, I can see this making a "bubble" of very undesirable cars, in the late 2000's era as you say. Similar to the ordinary petrol cars (signum, various saabs and others) that attracted the same £500 ved that was levied on the luxury & performance cars of the same age.
Yeah, I could get 2007-10 Passat Estate, but I would want to plug in before buying it...
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All most worrying. So many alarm bells going off I cannot think straight.
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About time too. There are too many tractors driving round with emissions that make your eyes water. Drive a convertible for a day and you'll understand what your pollen filter has been removing. :o
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
Your going t wrong MOT station if they rev it that hard.....I know they should tho'
My MOT garage just gives a quick blip on the throttle and leaves it at that :y
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
Your going t wrong MOT station if they rev it that hard.....I know they should tho'
My MOT garage just gives a quick blip on the throttle and leaves it at that :y
I thought the test was all system monitored now?
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
The Zafira somehow always passed the smoke test. Probably because it wouldn't rev to 4k rpm ;D
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
Your going t wrong MOT station if they rev it that hard.....I know they should tho'
My MOT garage just gives a quick blip on the throttle and leaves it at that :y
I thought the test was all system monitored now?
Damn well ought to be. If it can't be held at 4,000 RPM for a few seconds without dying, then better it dies there and then than carry on chucking out soot and unburnt fuel. :y
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About time too. There are too many tractors driving round with emissions that make your eyes water. Drive a convertible for a day and you'll understand what your pollen filter has been removing. :o
Yet, my pre-DPF fog monster will not have to obey these rules... ...put probably will be the first to hit these city centre taxes, being an old soot chucker.
Gixer and I noticed on the Jag, only one bank of cylinders has a cat on it. Upon checking the workshop manual, that is correct :o
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Take it thatbit has an x pipe or similar so the gasses from both banks mix?
I suppose why bother with a second if scrubbing 50% of the gas will need current regs. Any more than that and you're only adding cost no benefit, other than that of the polar bears. ;D
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
Your going t wrong MOT station if they rev it that hard.....I know they should tho'
My MOT garage just gives a quick blip on the throttle and leaves it at that :y
I thought the test was all system monitored now?
Damn well ought to be. If it can't be held at 4,000 RPM for a few seconds without dying, then better it dies there and then than carry on chucking out soot and unburnt fuel. :y
Nope...MOT blokey can click on various messages disregarding messages about engine/exhaust temp....and then just let it idle after a quick blip on the throttle when it does the smoke test.....or did when mine was last tested ;)
I can see the point about soot Kevin, but a petrol can chuck out unburnt fuel as well .... whats the difference between diesel and petrol unburnt fuel I don't know.... :-\
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
Your going t wrong MOT station if they rev it that hard.....I know they should tho'
My MOT garage just gives a quick blip on the throttle and leaves it at that :y
I thought the test was all system monitored now?
Damn well ought to be. If it can't be held at 4,000 RPM for a few seconds without dying, then better it dies there and then than carry on chucking out soot and unburnt fuel. :y
Nope...MOT blokey can click on various messages disregarding messages about engine/exhaust temp....and then just let it idle after a quick blip on the throttle when it does the smoke test.....or did when mine was last tested ;)
I can see the point about soot Kevin, but a petrol can chuck out unburnt fuel as well .... whats the difference between diesel and petrol unburnt fuel I don't know.... :-\
If it does it will fair the emissions test, that is the difference.
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Could be a good reason to lpg a car then... replace the cats with a straight though pipes and remove the rev limiter :D
Cheap fuel costs are a happy bonus...
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If it does it will fair the emissions test, that is the difference.
Exactly. The petrol emissions test is actually designed to detect common faults that might cause the original emissions criteria not to be met.
The diseasel test is designed to ensure the guy behind can still see where he's going. ::)
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If it does it will fair the emissions test, that is the difference.
Exactly. The petrol emissions test is actually designed to detect common faults that might cause the original emissions criteria not to be met.
The diseasel test is designed to ensure the guy behind can still see where he's going. ::)
The petrol test highlights faults that tend to be fixable.
The diesel test presents faults that you could spend £000's chasing and still not fix because they're characteristic of diesel engines.
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
Your going t wrong MOT station if they rev it that hard.....I know they should tho'
My MOT garage just gives a quick blip on the throttle and leaves it at that :y
I thought the test was all system monitored now?
Damn well ought to be. If it can't be held at 4,000 RPM for a few seconds without dying, then better it dies there and then than carry on chucking out soot and unburnt fuel. :y
Nope...MOT blokey can click on various messages disregarding messages about engine/exhaust temp....and then just let it idle after a quick blip on the throttle when it does the smoke test.....or did when mine was last tested ;)
I can see the point about soot Kevin, but a petrol can chuck out unburnt fuel as well .... whats the difference between diesel and petrol unburnt fuel I don't know.... :-\
I'd say that because tractors chuck out unburned fuel constantly. If a petrol does it's because there's an issue.
Diesels in my opinion are awful. I hate the smell. I hate the sound. I find it funny when people who buy them trying to save money end up needing turbos, DPFs, EGRs, injectors, etc.
This all happens because diesel doesn't burn well and these issues are all because of this.
I love my petrol guzzling omega 😂😂😂
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
Your going t wrong MOT station if they rev it that hard.....I know they should tho'
My MOT garage just gives a quick blip on the throttle and leaves it at that :y
I thought the test was all system monitored now?
Damn well ought to be. If it can't be held at 4,000 RPM for a few seconds without dying, then better it dies there and then than carry on chucking out soot and unburnt fuel. :y
Nope...MOT blokey can click on various messages disregarding messages about engine/exhaust temp....and then just let it idle after a quick blip on the throttle when it does the smoke test.....or did when mine was last tested ;)
I can see the point about soot Kevin, but a petrol can chuck out unburnt fuel as well .... whats the difference between diesel and petrol unburnt fuel I don't know.... :-\
If it does it will fair the emissions test, that is the difference.
Sorry, on the environment I meant.....A petrol could fail the emissions test on one day of the year...then scrape through the test and go back to chucking out unburnt fuel for the rest of the year.....
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Only test on a diesel car is an absolutely fickin brutal smoke test. Most diesels don't get to 4000rpm in daily driving, then the MOT man tries to kill your car.
Your going t wrong MOT station if they rev it that hard.....I know they should tho'
My MOT garage just gives a quick blip on the throttle and leaves it at that :y
I thought the test was all system monitored now?
Damn well ought to be. If it can't be held at 4,000 RPM for a few seconds without dying, then better it dies there and then than carry on chucking out soot and unburnt fuel. :y
Nope...MOT blokey can click on various messages disregarding messages about engine/exhaust temp....and then just let it idle after a quick blip on the throttle when it does the smoke test.....or did when mine was last tested ;)
I can see the point about soot Kevin, but a petrol can chuck out unburnt fuel as well .... whats the difference between diesel and petrol unburnt fuel I don't know.... :-\
If it does it will fair the emissions test, that is the difference.
Sorry, on the environment I meant.....A petrol could fail the emissions test on one day of the year...then scrape through the test and go back to chucking out unburnt fuel for the rest of the year.....
Not necessarily. A petrol car in good condition will pass the test every day of the year with a massive margin. If a car is borderline, then the test is doing what it should and weeding out faulty cars. The fact that some faults are gradual in their nature (i.e. the degrading of a cat) mean that there will be a few years where it will "scrape through" but remember that an MOT test is carried out in the most challenging conditions - with the cat relatively cool because the engine cannot be driven under load. A car that has "scraped through" will probably still be compliant when under load on the road because the cat will be much hotter.
Contrast that with the diesel test which looks for density of smoke only during a brief acceleration of the engine. It doesn't matter what's in the exhaust as long as the density is within limits. I suspect a lot of older diesels have injectors that are delivering a dribble of fuel instead of atomising it. They still pass but with all manner of sh1te coming out of the exhaust. About time they were checked for Hydrocarbon emissions.
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My "diesel" car passes the smoke test as long as it is actually running on diesel and " not making the workshop smell like a farkin chip shop". Wrong smell is an immediate fail. ;D
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Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
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Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
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Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Yes removing the DPF will get rid of your cash, which is the whole point of this thread Tunnie! ::) :P ;D
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Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Its about 85% full and you can get them emptied, the main cause of the ash is actually the oil burning as part of the combustion cycle so regular oil changes with the correct oil helps.
That's said I seem to recall the VW removal procedure starting off something like, 1) Remove subframe.... :(
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Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Yes removing the DPF will get rid of your cash, which is the whole point of this thread Tunnie! ::) :P ;D
Oops an interesting an unfortunate typo! :o :D ;D ;D ;D
Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Its about 85% full and you can get them emptied, the main cause of the ash is actually the oil burning as part of the combustion cycle so regular oil changes with the correct oil helps.
That's said I seem to recall the VW removal procedure starting off something like, 1) Remove subframe.... :(
Thanks. Looking at history it's dealer service so oil changes every 17k.
I'll look to bring this down to every sub 10k by doing it myself, so I would guess this would slow the rate of ash build up.
I know how you like VW :P - I know even more you would love to help a useless student strip down the inlet for cleaning, so I know more about this dirty diesel :D :D :D
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The regenerative burns the ash off...
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The regenerative burns the ash off...
Sadly not, the regen burns the trapped soot particulates but, you get left with a small amount of ash which remains trapped in the DPF and slowly builds up over time until they are fully clogged.
Most of the ash is a result of tiny amounts of oil getting trapped rather than from the diesel combustion.
There are a firms who will take a DPF and reverse flush the ash out (its been a common thing on lorries for some time)
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Ah ok... Thought the principle was to get the whole thing hot enough to produce such fine ash that it was blown out as a matter of course :-\
Not that either result is particularly good to breathe in...
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At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Freudian slip? ;D
In all seriousness I've seen companies offering services for either high pressure air cleaning and ultrasonic. Not sure which is best, as I never intended to have a dpf car and keep the dpf in it (lucky i didn't go down that route or I'd be in schtuck come next year). Ahat I would say is maybe get it done before its "full" - probably easier to clean. That's just a guess though.
The bottom line on DPF's is they work fine when used in the correct application (as you are discovering) but people bought diesels for the wrong application and frequently pay the price. Maintaining something every 160k could hardly be described as a chore ;).
Ah ok... Thought the principle was to get the whole thing hot enough to produce such fine ash that it was blown out as a matter of course :-\
That is indeed the idea, but its not 100% removed. However, as tunnie's experience is showing, a build-up of 0.41g per 1000 miles driven, is a pretty slow rate of accretion.
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At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Freudian slip? ;D
In all seriousness I've seen companies offering services for either high pressure air cleaning and ultrasonic. Not sure which is best, as I never intended to have a dpf car and keep the dpf in it (lucky i didn't go down that route or I'd be in schtuck come next year). Ahat I would say is maybe get it done before its "full" - probably easier to clean. That's just a guess though.
The bottom line on DPF's is they work fine when used in the correct application (as you are discovering) but people bought diesels for the wrong application and frequently pay the price. Maintaining something every 160k could hardly be described as a chore ;).
Ah ok... Thought the principle was to get the whole thing hot enough to produce such fine ash that it was blown out as a matter of course :-\
That is indeed the idea, but its not 100% removed. However, as tunnie's experience is showing, a build-up of 0.41g per 1000 miles driven, is a pretty slow rate of accretion.
Yes, I have noticed that the re-gens only occur on my way back from work. In the heat yesterday on the way home I felt it took longer on a cycle. The way I can tell is idle is 1 bar higher on the needle compared to normal, took about 30 mins to do a cycle yesterday.
Hence I can see diesel working for anyone with a commute of at least 40 mins, or like TD the car engine is on all day in taxi work doing an idle-based re-gen. But it means diesel with DPF is not suitable for the wife, with her town only miles.
If I still have the VW at 160/70/80k I don't see it being an issue getting it removed and cleaned.
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Thanks. Looking at history it's dealer service so oil changes every 17k.
I'll look to bring this down to every sub 10k by doing it myself, so I would guess this would slow the rate of ash build up.
I know how you like VW :P - I know even more you would love to help a useless student strip down the inlet for cleaning, so I know more about this dirty diesel :D :D :D
Oh I love cleaning diesel inlet manifolds, its such a pleasant and rewarding job :'(
My issue with the VW diesel is that dam 2.0 engine, an utter mare compared to the joy of the PD
Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.
W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:
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Ah ok... Thought the principle was to get the whole thing hot enough to produce such fine ash that it was blown out as a matter of course :-\
Not that either result is particularly good to breathe in...
The theory is to burn off the particulates in a controlled manor so they don't come out the back (they cant get through the filter until they are combusted), trouble is the stuff that gets trapped which is not a particulate (e.g. the tiny amounts of oil).
Its this reason that dictates special oils for DPF equipped cars as they have different properties to minimise it.
I have contemplated removing mine at some point and attaching it, with flow in the reverse direction, to the towable road drill compressor at the railway and then blasting it with air whilst vibrating the case with a needle gun to see what comes out.
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But it means diesel with DPF is not suitable for the wife, with her town only miles.
Oooo, that reminds me (just to take the thread totally off-topic), I had a thought you may not have considered on your big car hunt - Kia Sportage. Not many around but they do come in 1.6 petrol auto form. I think a 3yr old one would bust your budget, but with a 7yr warranty, would there be an issue going a couple of years older?
Just a thought
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Yes, I have noticed that the re-gens only occur on my way back from work. In the heat yesterday on the way home I felt it took longer on a cycle. The way I can tell is idle is 1 bar higher on the needle compared to normal, took about 30 mins to do a cycle yesterday.
Hence I can see diesel working for anyone with a commute of at least 40 mins, or like TD the car engine is on all day in taxi work doing an idle-based re-gen. But it means diesel with DPF is not suitable for the wife, with her town only miles.
If I still have the VW at 160/70/80k I don't see it being an issue getting it removed and cleaned.
That sounds a long while for a regen, ten minutes is typical, some only five.
The later diesels have the DPF right next to the turbo (which is not great for the turbo and makes removal tricky!) so they regen quicker, mine is a bigger unit and mounted under the floor so easy to get to.
Static regens need to be avoided, as there is no load on the engine you get bore wash and the oil gets contaminated with diesel (and in the case of the two Volvos at work, they ran on the raised oil level which get into the breathers until a rod was thrown!)
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Yes, I have noticed that the re-gens only occur on my way back from work. In the heat yesterday on the way home I felt it took longer on a cycle. The way I can tell is idle is 1 bar higher on the needle compared to normal, took about 30 mins to do a cycle yesterday.
Hence I can see diesel working for anyone with a commute of at least 40 mins, or like TD the car engine is on all day in taxi work doing an idle-based re-gen. But it means diesel with DPF is not suitable for the wife, with her town only miles.
If I still have the VW at 160/70/80k I don't see it being an issue getting it removed and cleaned.
That sounds a long while for a regen, ten minutes is typical, some only five.
The later diesels have the DPF right next to the turbo (which is not great for the turbo and makes removal tricky!) so they regen quicker, mine is a bigger unit and mounted under the floor so easy to get to.
Static regens need to be avoided, as there is no load on the engine you get bore wash and the oil gets contaminated with diesel (and in the case of the two Volvos at work, they ran on the raised oil level which get into the breathers until a rod was thrown!)
Was longer than usual, normally it is around 10 mins as you say. I put it down to the heat :-\ - As normally it's finished within 10 mins. Might do a plug in tomorrow, see what's what.
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There are a firms who will take a DPF and reverse flush the ash out (its been a common thing on lorries for some time)
We tried 4different companies who 'specialised' in that, and found them no more effective than using a pressure washer: good for about 2000miles before I had to crawl back to base at 25mph. A new cat/dpf was £3k, but it only took 10minutes to fit
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Does using a car that has adblue make any difference to the DPF filter, (or is it an either/or situation? Please indulge me. ;D
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Does using a car that has adblue make any difference to the DPF filter, (or is it an either/or situation? Please indulge me. ;D
I understand this injected post DPF.... into the exhaust gas.
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Does using a car that has adblue make any difference to the DPF filter, (or is it an either/or situation? Please indulge me. ;D
I understand this injected post DPF.... into the exhaust gas.
I made that mistake when looking at the newer merc's I thought "oo, Ad Blu, I'll get one of those, no pesky dpf to worry about" - WRONG! ;D
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Does using a car that has adblue make any difference to the DPF filter, (or is it an either/or situation? Please indulge me. ;D
I understand this injected post DPF.... into the exhaust gas.
I made that mistake when looking at the newer merc's I thought "oo, Ad Blu, I'll get one of those, no pesky dpf to worry about" - WRONG! ;D
Yep, in addition!
Luckily my VW does not use AdBlue, just the DPF. As mentioned before, it appears to be working as it should, but I do long enough runs and only long runs. I don't use it for short journeys.
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Does using a car that has adblue make any difference to the DPF filter, (or is it an either/or situation? Please indulge me. ;D
The AdBlue is used to reduce the NOx content (the thing which is causing the most concern with diesel emissions), its injected into the exhaust and reacts with the (selective) catalyst to turn it into N2 and H2O, needed for Euro 6 compliance (although smaller cars with smaller diesels can get away with a special catalyst alone).
The DPF is there to reduce the particulate content of the exhaust so the two are mutually exclusive.
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There are a firms who will take a DPF and reverse flush the ash out (its been a common thing on lorries for some time)
We tried 4different companies who 'specialised' in that, and found them no more effective than using a pressure washer: good for about 2000miles before I had to crawl back to base at 25mph. A new cat/dpf was £3k, but it only took 10minutes to fit
Many companies just do a wash or air blast, the agitation appears to be key as the ash becomes compressed into the channels in the DPF so need to be persuaded to come out
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There are a firms who will take a DPF and reverse flush the ash out (its been a common thing on lorries for some time)
We tried 4different companies who 'specialised' in that, and found them no more effective than using a pressure washer: good for about 2000miles before I had to crawl back to base at 25mph. A new cat/dpf was £3k, but it only took 10minutes to fit
Many companies just do a wash or air blast, the agitation appears to be key as the ash becomes compressed into the channels in the DPF so need to be persuaded to come out
I've some companies do this with DPF in place, exhaust emits dirty then clean foam. But I guess this just removes the soot, not the ash?
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There are a firms who will take a DPF and reverse flush the ash out (its been a common thing on lorries for some time)
We tried 4different companies who 'specialised' in that, and found them no more effective than using a pressure washer: good for about 2000miles before I had to crawl back to base at 25mph. A new cat/dpf was £3k, but it only took 10minutes to fit
Many companies just do a wash or air blast, the agitation appears to be key as the ash becomes compressed into the channels in the DPF so need to be persuaded to come out
I've some companies do this with DPF in place, exhaust emits dirty then clean foam. But I guess this just removes the soot, not the ash?
Its questionable if it can actually do anything!
It may clear them just enough to allow it to re-generate correctly.
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Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Its about 85% full and you can get them emptied, the main cause of the ash is actually the oil burning as part of the combustion cycle so regular oil changes with the correct oil helps.
That's said I seem to recall the VW removal procedure starting off something like, 1) Remove subframe.... :(
I think your right .... was chatting to another driver earlier who used to drive a Passat...
His DPF failed at 140k...
Took it to local garage....who didn't want to know about changing it..
The went to VW in Swindon....they took a look and shipped it to VW in Bristol...
A week later he got it back......
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Is he walking Ok having got the bill?
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Is he walking Ok having got the bill?
He is now, it was a while ago ::) ;D
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Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Its about 85% full and you can get them emptied, the main cause of the ash is actually the oil burning as part of the combustion cycle so regular oil changes with the correct oil helps.
That's said I seem to recall the VW removal procedure starting off something like, 1) Remove subframe.... :(
I think your right .... was chatting to another driver earlier who used to drive a Passat...
His DPF failed at 140k...
Took it to local garage....who didn't want to know about changing it..
The went to VW in Swindon....they took a look and shipped it to VW in Bristol...
A week later he got it back......
When you say failed, clogged of soot? or full of Ash?
All issues appear to result from in-correct use and it not completing a re-gen cycle, there does not appear to be much to actually fail in terms of it physically working?
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tunnie, keep talking the DPF's up. Not much else available here unless I resort to a small petrol car and a trailer for shopping, MIL, dog and wheelchair etc
The million dollar (euro?) question then is how do you know a diesel has had correct use and completed re-gen cycles, when you are buying secondhand? Perhaps only buy something with impossibly high mileage?
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tunnie, keep talking the DPF's up. Not much else available here unless I resort to a small petrol car and a trailer for shopping, MIL, dog and wheelchair etc
The million dollar (euro?) question then is how do you know a diesel has had correct use and completed re-gen cycles, when you are buying secondhand? Perhaps only buy something with impossibly high mileage?
Yes I don't think people realise or just don't want to and want to take the pi$$ of DPF's - But there is severe lack of petrols about currently, it's all diesels in mid-range budgets.
I don't know yet what can cause (if anything) a DPF to fail, other than it's not completed a re-gen cycle or it's full of ash.
I've bought VAGCOM, so if I did pick another diesel, say Passat Estate, I'd plug that in and check it as it can give exact details. I would do this if buying from an independent dealer or auction, but as I bought my VW from large retailer, which gets all it's cars ex fleet/lease, the chance of them being heavily modified like this is very low. Could still happen though, but far less likely as only 2-3 years old generally.
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Acceptable oil consumption for the Vw 2.0 diesel is in the order of 1 litre every 1000 kilometers.
Where do you think this oil goes?
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The brother in law currently has a 540 (lease car) in Munich, its being replaced by the V6 turbo option but, the lead time has gone off the scale due to everybody running away from the diesel versions and choosing the petrol due to concerns over just what the governments are going to do with diesel power.
So give it a few years and the tables may well have changed. :y
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The brother in law currently has a 540 (lease car) in Munich, its being replaced by the V6 turbo option but, the lead time has gone off the scale due to everybody running away from the diesel versions and choosing the petrol due to concerns over just what the governments are going to do with diesel power.
So give it a few years and the tables may well have changed. :y
Yup :y
I think 3-5 years best case, before 'premium' brand new cars now are better priced and we have a good selection. e.g. loads of BMW 5 Series Estates with 2.0 petrol engines.
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Acceptable oil consumption for the Vw 2.0 diesel is in the order of 1 litre every 1000 kilometers.
Where do you think this oil goes?
I suspect most of the oil consumed would be burnt much the same as diesel and that its the additives that form the ash (so much lower volume), given what some of the oil additives are its likely to contain some 'interesting' compounds!
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So can anything actually cause a DPF to "fail"? (excluding a re-gen cycle not completing = blocked or ash level reaching full level)
To me it comes across as similar to destroying a cat, the engine would have to be running rich/have a fault that would be causing excessive soot, which then could not be burnt off quick enough (or doing a constant regen)
As it appears if you do long enough runs, allowing it to do the cycles it should they are generally reliable?
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Yes generally reliable, you could suffer physical damage etc just like a Cat and eventually they would rot out (the Zaf one has a long pipe from the DPF to the back box which is part of the DPF which corrodes away but, there is a repair piece which fits in to save DPF replacement).
Tuning boxes don't tend to help and using crap oil which is not DPF suitable is a bad idea.
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The brother in law currently has a 540 (lease car) in Munich, its being replaced by the V6 turbo option but, the lead time has gone off the scale due to everybody running away from the diesel versions and choosing the petrol due to concerns over just what the governments are going to do with diesel power.
So give it a few years and the tables may well have changed. :y
That is the problem "buying" secondhand now. Diesel is the obvious choice but I just know they will be taxed to death, excluded from big cities ( Granada and Seville are both struggling to get below EU polution limits) and generally vilified.
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Yes generally reliable, you could suffer physical damage etc just like a Cat and eventually they would rot out (the Zaf one has a long pipe from the DPF to the back box which is part of the DPF which corrodes away but, there is a repair piece which fits in to save DPF replacement).
Tuning boxes don't tend to help and using crap oil which is not DPF suitable is a bad idea.
Yeah I've noted this when doing an oil change on mine, I've made sure the oil is suitable. I'll also take mine to VW to keep service stamps with just an oil change.
The brother in law currently has a 540 (lease car) in Munich, its being replaced by the V6 turbo option but, the lead time has gone off the scale due to everybody running away from the diesel versions and choosing the petrol due to concerns over just what the governments are going to do with diesel power.
So give it a few years and the tables may well have changed. :y
That is the problem "buying" secondhand now. Diesel is the obvious choice but I just know they will be taxed to death, excluded from big cities ( Granada and Seville are both struggling to get below EU polution limits) and generally vilified.
Yup, buying now basically means diesel really. As only petrols around (2007-15 age) tend to be huge performance versions, the ultra new ones have the small turbo lumps.
Now when I look Zafira Tourers the petrols are really low in numbers, with diesels in the 1,000+
In 5 years, I think this will have reversed, if the current wind continues against diesel from government.
But don't let that put you off, my diesel costs £30 for the year to tax and easily gets over 50mpg, you will get the arguments of injectors/turbo's ect but the harsh truth is there are no petrols around for second hand buyer with a £10-15k budget.
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That is the problem "buying" secondhand now. Diesel is the obvious choice but I just know they will be taxed to death, excluded from big cities ( Granada and Seville are both struggling to get below EU polution limits) and generally vilified.
I'd agree with all of that, I'm confident my current one will be the last diesel I buy and it'll be ready for the bin in 5-7yrs.
I bought it because it'll live on the motorway (where it belongs) and SWMBO's 1.2y petrol will be used for any town work.
It all depends on how often you want to visit a city and how big you think the risk of a ban is. If it's only once a month or less, would the reduced fuel and tax costs of a diesel pay for a hire car on those days?
I took a similar view on the s80 vs v70 debate, a v70 would have cost me an extra £2-3k for a like-for-like car and uses a bit more fuel, so I figured that on the occasions I need an estate, I'll hire a van. However that doesn't work if you need a daily sprog-carrier.
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Remember also that if a petrol car is chucking out un-burnt fuel then the cat will be dead pretty quickly, his will then fail the test even of the Lambda figure is met.
Interestingly, I got a print out two weeks ago when the bus passed its MOT which showed the particulate levels at differing engine revs which was a surprise (it passed easily as it does have a fitted and working DPF - 185k miles and no issues)
At these kind of miles, do you begin to have issues with ash? As I understand it the soot is burned off in the re-gen process, leaving just ash.
VAGCOM tells me there is 34g of ash in my DPF and it can hold 75g, currently on 83k miles. But suggests 160k+ it could be approaching full, at that point can you remove the DPF to get rid of the cash?
Its about 85% full and you can get them emptied, the main cause of the ash is actually the oil burning as part of the combustion cycle so regular oil changes with the correct oil helps.
That's said I seem to recall the VW removal procedure starting off something like, 1) Remove subframe.... :(
I think your right .... was chatting to another driver earlier who used to drive a Passat...
His DPF failed at 140k...
Took it to local garage....who didn't want to know about changing it..
The went to VW in Swindon....they took a look and shipped it to VW in Bristol...
A week later he got it back......
When you say failed, clogged of soot? or full of Ash?
All issues appear to result from in-correct use and it not completing a re-gen cycle, there does not appear to be much to actually fail in terms of it physically working?
Car went into limp mode.....when diag tester attached it complained of DPF....so it got changed....eventually ::)
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In reality, the penalties against diesel cars will be levelled at new car buyers unless the government get really desperate to hit air quality targets, in which case they will be banned from city centres, I suspect. Once the cars have filtered down into the hands of the "average punter", retrospective measures will cost them too heavily at the ballot box. ;D
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I agree toa point but it is quite easy to load vehicle fuel tax year on year to make diesel less attractive. Who would complain at such a green measure? Especially if it is countered with generous bribes in the form of discounts off electric vehicles.
In Spain ypur local council sets and receives vehicle tax rates. They do vary hugely
. So it would be easy for a city like Granada plagued with polution ( high pressure sits over it all summer so no wind to blow it away) to load diesel cars and make green cars conversely cheaper. Who could complain?
I am not too worriedabout being barred from bigger cities. Better to train/bus into them or use park and tram.
So overall green will win the day
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True. I suppose I'm thinking in a uk-centric way (as that's all I really know) where retrospective measures would be unpopular come election time as it's difficult to single out certain vehicles without tearing up the rulebook and starting again.
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S'pose I should look where my DPF is. Is it that rather huge thing just after the 2 bank's exhausts meet about halfway down, with extra pipes and shit going to it?
Want to change the oil in another couple of thousand. Reckon its Jag only, and they'll want me bent over the coffee machine, in the reception position?
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What your garage has a coffee machine and a reception.! Things are looking up. :y
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What your garage has a coffee machine and a reception.! Things are looking up. :y
I hope they supply the Vaseline, as I'm gonna be poor ;D
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Reckon its Jag only, and they'll want me bent over the coffee machine, in the reception position?
Well, maybe the bumming part, but I doubt the oil is jag only, that 3.0 diesel lump has been doing the rounds for the better part of a decade and is in JLR, pug and shitroen applications, Tesco probably stock it :P
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S'pose I should look where my DPF is. Is it that rather huge thing just after the 2 bank's exhausts meet about halfway down, with extra pipes and shit going to it?
Want to change the oil in another couple of thousand. Reckon its Jag only, and they'll want me bent over the coffee machine, in the reception position?
I would expect so, generally there is a small pipe connection to the front of it to measure the back pressure. Occasionally there is another after (although god knows why as the post DPF pressure is pretty close to atmospheric on modern cars with free flowing exhausts) .
I would expect Dexos2 would be more than up to the job on the oil front
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Reckon its Jag only, and they'll want me bent over the coffee machine, in the reception position?
Well, maybe the bumming part, but I doubt the oil is jag only, that 3.0 diesel lump has been doing the rounds for the better part of a decade and is in JLR, pug and shitroen applications, Tesco probably stock it :P
I know some of the oils for XJ - probably the supercharged, is Jag only, supposedly co developed with Castrol, and only available from Jag outlets.
Obviously, by co developed, I mean a Jag engineer went through the Castrol catalogue, and picked one...
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I would expect Dexos2 would be more than up to the job on the oil front
I believe spec is A5/B5, and has a Ford style designation. I think TC do do a couple of Ford spec oils, so was possibly a line I would investigate. Failing that, Halfords have a compliant Mobil1 for £22 for 5l, trade.
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How does the system measure the amount of shite in the DPF, and clearly can't directly weigh it? Is it pressure differences, and give a calculated amount (% in GM, g in vagcom)?
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How does the system measure the amount of shite in the DPF, and clearly can't directly weigh it? Is it pressure differences, and give a calculated amount (% in GM, g in vagcom)?
VAGCOM can tell me in gram weight, the ash that's been burnt and soot ready to burn. Here is a sample output from my VW:
IDE00432 Particle filter: time since last regeneration 4798 s
IDE00433 Particle filter: oil ash volume 0.08 l
IDE00434 Particle filter: soot mass calculated 6.61 g
IDE00435 Particle filter: soot mass measured -0.39 g
IDE00436 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration 57443 m
IDE06059 Particle filter: oil ash volume 33.7 g
IDE06060 Particulate filter ash load limit 70.00 g
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Soot mass is the build up, it never really goes above 10g from what I've seen. The higher this figure the worse it is for exhaust gas flow I think
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Shows I should plug in more, your post reminded me I should do a plug in. Good news no fault codes, but DPF is higher than I've seen it before. The again it's been about 177 miles since it's done a re-gen.
So the other day with high idle, must have been the heat/climate reasons :-\
I'm doing a long run tomorrow so will do another plug in later in the week. But this time I also checked the pressure:
IDE00427 Particle filter: difference pressure 7 hPa
IDE00428 Particle filter: offset for differential press. 1 hPa
IDE00432 Particle filter: time since last regeneration 24205 s
IDE00433 Particle filter: oil ash volume 0.09 l
IDE00434 Particle filter: soot mass calculated 17.84 g
IDE00435 Particle filter: soot mass measured 3.64 g
IDE00436 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration 285736 m
IDE04650 Particle filter: differential pressure: dynamic offset 2 hPa
IDE04652 Exhaust gas jet volume in particle filter 29.5 m³/h
IDE05853 DPF statistics: current avg temperature after part filter 238.4 °C
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Tunnie - I was curious *HOW* the system knows/calculates, not the functionality of the scan tool. As it's not able to actually weigh anything...
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Fairly sure it's pressure in vs out and it estimates.
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Tunnie - I was curious *HOW* the system knows/calculates, not the functionality of the scan tool. As it's not able to actually weigh anything...
Its based on back pressure (hence the pressure sensor), the ash content is an guesstimate based on post DPF regen back pressure, mileage etc
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Tunnie - I was curious *HOW* the system knows/calculates, not the functionality of the scan tool. As it's not able to actually weigh anything...
Its based on back pressure (hence the pressure sensor), the ash content is an guesstimate based on post DPF regen back pressure, mileage etc
Merci :y