Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 24 June 2017, 10:44:30

Title: Evacuation
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 24 June 2017, 10:44:30
Camden Council last night ordered the evacuation of 4 tower blocks on fire safety concerns, allegedly at very short notice and have effectively rendered (reportedly) 4000 people homeless.  :o

Have they done the right thing or is it an over reaction?  :-\
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: TD on 24 June 2017, 10:58:23
Over reaction , IMO

Let the tenants stay put, but have 24/7 'fire wardens' patrolling as they are doing anyway and get the cladding changed asap.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Viral_Jim on 24 June 2017, 11:40:07
Over reaction , IMO


I'd agree, but also symptomatic of the litigious and "trial by media" society in which we live. Evacuating the blocks puts the council beyond reproach regarding a similar fire. Anything less and they will be hauled over the coals for "not doing more".
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 June 2017, 12:21:08
Yep, smacks of an @rse covering exercise to me. If I were living there I think I'd be telling them I'm staying put, until they have somewhere for me to go, at any rate.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Varche on 24 June 2017, 13:12:20
i have a horrible suspicion that this is the tip of the iceberg. i.e. we will see loads more evacuations across the country as those responsible take the soft option. Who wouldn't ?
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 24 June 2017, 15:03:39
When as an official of one of these councils you could be faced with manslaughter charges, as now are those involved in Grenville, then it makes perfect sense.

In addition, if you know now as a tenant that the cladding on your block, plus other safety issues, is the same as with the ill fated tower block, wouldn't you want to be out and safe with your family?  It is perfectly understandable and natural. ;)
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: BazaJT on 24 June 2017, 15:10:57
As far as I can make out no-one was forced to leave,they were advised to do so.Yes it's an over reaction as long as nothing goes wrong,but if they do nothing and something does go wrong what then?It's a case of damned if you do,damned if you don't.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: nemo on 24 June 2017, 18:45:17
If it is an arse covering exercise I assume every fridge freezer will be on the way to landfill asap,but I doubt they will be.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: TheBoy on 24 June 2017, 20:39:35
See, I'm right, the UK is made up of stupid people.

Words fail.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Nick W on 24 June 2017, 20:43:37
See, I'm right, the UK is made up of run by stupid people.

Words fail.


Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: TheBoy on 24 June 2017, 20:47:35
See, I'm right, the UK is made up of run by stupid people.

Words fail.


Fixed that for you.
I think politicians don't stand a chance now, as the media are now judge and jury.

Look at the scatheing that tory bird from these parts is getting for talking sense to the dumb arsed blonde bimbo from the beeb...
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 24 June 2017, 21:58:01
Over reaction. They had 24 hour wardens in the buildings to spot any problems as soon as they started. Keeping them their until the cladding was ripped off (which shouldn't take that long) seems sensible.
If the Grenfell residents hadn't been told to remain in their flats in during a fire, most of them would almost certainly be alive now.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 24 June 2017, 22:07:21
Over reaction. They had 24 hour wardens in the buildings to spot any problems as soon as they started. Keeping them their until the cladding was ripped off (which shouldn't take that long) seems sensible.
If the Grenfell residents hadn't been told to remain in their flats in during a fire, most of them would almost certainly be alive now.
Easy to say that now...

At the time it was presumed, not unreasonably imho, that the flats were self-contained pockets of safety and staying in them should have kept people safe and accounted for as long as necessary to clear the building and tackle the fire in a safe and effective manner.

The reality, with hindsight, proved tragically different and whilst the brunt of the investigation seems focused on the cladding rather than how the core of the building burned so vigorously. The interior should have been  broadly unaffected by the fire within the cladding :-\
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 25 June 2017, 18:36:45
Now 60 tower blocks have been checked out for fire safety, 100% of them failed the inspections! :o :o
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: STEMO on 25 June 2017, 18:38:20
Now 60 tower blocks have been checked out for fire safety, 100% of them failed the inspections! :o :o
Have we started on schools, hospitals, libraries yet?  ::)
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 25 June 2017, 18:41:39
Now 60 tower blocks have been checked out for fire safety, 100% of them failed the inspections! :o :o
Have we started on schools, hospitals, libraries yet?  ::)

Oh, that is to come!! ::) ::) :o :o
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: STEMO on 25 June 2017, 18:44:21
Fire stations?  ;D

I shouldn't  :-[
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: aaronjb on 25 June 2017, 18:49:16
Better finish what the Germans started in the 1940s and flatten the whole country, just in case.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 25 June 2017, 19:36:28
Better finish what the Germans started in the 1940s and flatten the whole country, just in case.
Start with Lundun and Glastonbury...

Followed by a vigil.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: TheBoy on 25 June 2017, 19:46:41
Now 60 tower blocks have been checked out for fire safety, 100% of them failed the inspections! :o :o
Have we started on schools, hospitals, libraries yet?  ::)
For that to happen, you need to call the BBC, and express outrage...
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Viral_Jim on 26 June 2017, 08:12:57
Now 60 tower blocks have been checked out for fire safety, 100% of them failed the inspections! :o :o

Again, I think there is something of a media hype around this. What they are saying is that 100% of cladding tested is not up to current building regs (well, thats what the news @10 were saying last night). But this has never been the test applied to buildings, and nor should it be. The correct test to apply is whether it passed regulations at the time it was put up, and was it put up in the prescribed manner to allow it to perform correctly.

Taking our house as an example, built in 1908(ish), almost everything in here would not pass modern building regs, with the exception of the work we have done to it in the past couple of years. Does that make the place a death trap? - of course not.

Similarly, you cannot retrospectively apply the current regulations to existing public buildings, unless you want to set about re-fitting substantial portions of the building every few years. The requirements for fire doors, alarm systems, electrical safety and in this instance cladding all change with each iteration of the regulations and render previous installations non-compliant.

However, the problem you have now with the media hype is that no-one is going to stand up and say "this doesn't meet the latest fire safty regs, but that doesn't make it unsafe." As they'll be hung by the Mail, drawn by the Sun and quartered by the Express  ;D.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Kevin Wood on 26 June 2017, 09:35:39

Again, I think there is something of a media hype around this. What they are saying is that 100% of cladding tested is not up to current building regs (well, thats what the news @10 were saying last night). But this has never been the test applied to buildings, and nor should it be. The correct test to apply is whether it passed regulations at the time it was put up, and was it put up in the prescribed manner to allow it to perform correctly.

Taking our house as an example, built in 1908(ish), almost everything in here would not pass modern building regs, with the exception of the work we have done to it in the past couple of years. Does that make the place a death trap? - of course not.

Similarly, you cannot retrospectively apply the current regulations to existing public buildings, unless you want to set about re-fitting substantial portions of the building every few years. The requirements for fire doors, alarm systems, electrical safety and in this instance cladding all change with each iteration of the regulations and render previous installations non-compliant.

However, the problem you have now with the media hype is that no-one is going to stand up and say "this doesn't meet the latest fire safty regs, but that doesn't make it unsafe." As they'll be hung by the Mail, drawn by the Sun and quartered by the Express  ;D.

Yes, absolutely correct. However, if we're prepared to accept that a building will only ever meet the fire safety parts of the building regulations that were current at the time of construction, why are we not able to accept that its' environmental performance will only meet that standards that were current at the time of construction? It is the the practice of bodging insulation onto the side of buildings under cladding in the hope of "upgrading" this that has compromised the original fire safety measures incorporated into these buildings.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 26 June 2017, 10:26:33
My cars MoT was only good on the day of it's test... Can I apply for a new one?
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: aaronjb on 26 June 2017, 10:28:40
This reminds me of the opinion of a structural engineer I paid to do a structural report (odd, that) on a Victorian terrace, it basically boiled down to:

"All these old properties are low grade housing and should be flattened"

See, I'm right back to "Flatten the country and start again" apparently ;D
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: STEMO on 26 June 2017, 10:40:42
I had a bit of a nasty evacuation this morning. It was touching cloth and go for a while.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 26 June 2017, 13:13:44
I had a bit of a nasty evacuation this morning. It was touching cloth and go for a while.

Make it in time?
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 26 June 2017, 13:29:27
I had a bit of a nasty evacuation this morning. It was touching cloth and go for a while.

Make it in time?

He's been very quiet since....  :-\
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 26 June 2017, 13:48:04
I had a bit of a nasty evacuation this morning. It was touching cloth and go for a while.

Make it in time?

He's been very quiet since....  :-\

Leakage in the elderly is a common problem. :-\
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: STEMO on 26 June 2017, 14:41:53
Cheeky bastids. ;D I've been quiet since because I've been for a good walk with the dog. Looks like the rest of the week could be a write-off with the weather.
Title: Re: Evacuation
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 26 June 2017, 16:12:06
Cheeky bastids. ;D I've been quiet since because I've been for a good walk with the dog. Looks like the rest of the week could be a write-off with the weather.

'Whippet walking' a good was to relax. :)