Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: MikeDundee on 22 October 2017, 09:11:53
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Yes my omega should I venture into the CC area will now be hit with an additional £10 on top of the £11 CC charge, aimed at dirty cars, well granted does need a clean but Mr Khan I increasingly dislike >:(, Fortunately, I rarely travel into the CC area and when I do it is work related, so the company will pay :y So in a nice way up yours Mr Khan, as that means it comes out of public funds ::)
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Checked a couple of my Omegas recently and it said they were ok, how old is your Omega?
You can check by Reg No here - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/vrm-checker
Mine come back -
You are not subject to the T-Charge.
Your vehicle meets at least the Euro 4 / IV standard (Euro 3 if you are a motorised tricycle or quadricycle). You do not need to take any action. However, other charges may apply.
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Mine is a Y reg 2.6 . . . their site says " Not subject to T charge" ???
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Strange. All the media publicity says almost anything before 2006, including motorbikes. ???
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With mine it is as others have stated, but further down the page they warn:
"You may still be affected by the tighter emissions standard of the forthcoming Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ)"
So we are not out of the wood yet!
;)
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Wouldn't want to drive in CL anymore,right PITA ;D
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I know the Zafira attracts another tenner... ...but it fits in the stupid central London carparks.
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If I go into that London place, for personal I go by train. For work I don't care as work vehicle is euro5 and they pay,.
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Its no surprise to hear that my 2.5 will attract the poxy charge.
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Its no surprise to hear that my 2.5 will attract the poxy charge.
But my 3.2 doesn't. So why does your 2.5? :-\
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Its no surprise to hear that my 2.5 will attract the poxy charge.
But my 3.2 doesn't. So why does your 2.5? :-\
Strange ..my 2001 3.2 does ... :(
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Its no surprise to hear that my 2.5 will attract the poxy charge.
But my 3.2 doesn't. So why does your 2.5? :-\
Strange ..my 2001 3.2 does ... :(
Zirks are all manual ;)
Officially, the only retail Omegas which meet Euro 4 are the manual are the '03 MY 2.2 16v manual saloon and estates...
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Its no surprise to hear that my 2.5 will attract the poxy charge.
But my 3.2 doesn't. So why does your 2.5? :-\
Strange ..my 2001 3.2 does ... :(
Zirks are all manual ;)
Officially, the only retail Omegas which meet Euro 4 are the manual are the '03 MY 2.2 16v manual saloon and estates...
so why does Lizzies 3.2 NOT get charged .. when mine does ... :(
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My 2002 3.2 auto isn't subject to the charge. :)
I think I know what the answer will be for the 190D. ::)
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Apparently the charge comes into effect in the current congestion zone. The part of London I drive to is outside the zone by a few feet. :)
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so it seems 2002, 2003, 3.2s are exempt .. but my 2001 is not ..... wonder why .. :(
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Seems ridiculous, but that's officialdom for you. :-\
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All three of mine are fine 02 and 2x 52,
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so it seems 2002, 2003, 3.2s are exempt .. but my 2001 is not ..... wonder why .. :(
Possibly because the earlier cars are not taxed according to the emissions...
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Checked a couple of my Omegas recently and it said they were ok, how old is your Omega?
You can check by Reg No here - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/vrm-checker
Mine come back -
You are not subject to the T-Charge.
Your vehicle meets at least the Euro 4 / IV standard (Euro 3 if you are a motorised tricycle or quadricycle). You do not need to take any action. However, other charges may apply.
I am on 2001 plate.
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Same for my 2003..3.2 as Ms Zooms....exempt...but I still wont be driving there ...ever >:(
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My Car is...
exceptionType "VarnishBackendSickException"
httpStatus "Service Unavailable"
httpStatusCode "503"
message "This service is currently unavailable"
relativeUri "/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/compliance-checker"
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.. not that I ever want to go to London again, let alone drive there. ::)
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this is odd. my 2.6 f/l manual registered jan 2001 is affected by the t charge.
"The reason you are subject to the T-Charge is because your vehicle does not meet the Euro 4 / IV standard"
whereas as piston heads shed of the week https://www.pistonheads.com/news/shed-of-the-week/shed-of-the-week-vauxhall-omega-v6/32513 passes:
"Your vehicle meets at least the Euro 4 / IV standard (Euro 3 if you are a motorised tricycle or quadricycle).
The classification of your vehicle may change if Transport for London receives information regarding its emissions that shows it does not comply with the T- Charge emissions standards."
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This what happens when we elect stupid people to positions of authority. ::)
Anyone who voted for the current mayor has demonstrated that their stupidity is such tht they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
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seems you can dispute t-charge status.
"If you believe that your vehicle meets the Euro 4 / IV standard (Euro 3 if you are a motorised tricycle or quadricycle), you will need to register it with us providing evidence of its emissions. " https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/registration-47575
Then you will need to Upload documents:
"We need to see evidence showing the vehicles qualifies for registration do that you don’t have to pay the T-Charge. We need to see evidence showing the vehicles qualifies for registration do that you don’t have to pay the T-Charge. Please upload images of
The vehicle registration document (V5C or country equivalent)
AND
A signed letter from the vehicle manufacturers homologation department showing the vehicle registration mark (VRM), the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) and the Euro standard the vehicle was manufactured to.
"
anyone know how to get the latter?
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How do I get the emissions measured on my 190D running on WVO ?
My MOT man wont do it - "That thing firkin stinks. Makes my workshop smell like a chip shop. Take it away and put some proper diesel in the tank". ;D
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How do I get the emissions measured on my 190D running on WVO ?
My MOT man wont do it - "That thing firkin stinks. Makes my workshop smell like a chip shop. Take it away and put some proper diesel in the tank". ;D
Turn up at an accredited laboratory with a couple of grand, I'd imagine. The MOT test doesn't come anywhere near a suitable check of emissions, and is only designed to weed out cars that have common problems that affect emissions.
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Of course, it could be that your car is 'exempt' because it has never shown up on their ANPR system... whereas if you have ever deigned to take it it, you are put on the extortion list... ::)
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My car lived in Wembley until 18 months ago, so I don't think that ill be the reason. ;)
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My car lived in Wembley until 18 months ago, so I don't think that ill be the reason. ;)
It was a tongue in cheek suggestion, but I wouldn't put it past the leftist carrot munchers currently running Lundun :D
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Wouldn't put anything past them. :y ::)
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Now if I've read this correct, You only pay when entering the Congestion charge zone. So if you wish to go around the zone there's no charge. :-X
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Now if I've read this correct, You only pay when entering the Congestion charge zone. So if you wish to go around the zone there's no charge. :-X
Yeah. That would work.Only those people driving into the CZ are doing it cause they need to, not cause they want to. Get it? ;D
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Officially, the only retail Omegas which meet Euro 4 are the manual are the '03 MY 2.2 16v manual saloon and estates...
Mine is a 2.2 16v Z22XE auto estate MY 2003 and comes up as Euro 4.
Might it be that Y22XE and X20XEV are Euro 3 and Z22XE is Euro 4?
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My '51 Reg 2.6 auto is exempt.
The charge does not apply at weekends and outside the CZ times, and I would generally only want to go to London at weekends anyway - if ever.
Bring Boris back!
Ron.
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the next one down the line (for London) is the ULEZ, operating 24 hours a day and probably all the area inside the north and south circulars.
comes into force September 2020 or earlier
check your car here https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle
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the next one down the line (for London) is the ULEZ, operating 24 hours a day and probably all the area inside the north and south circulars.
comes into force September 2020 or earlier
check your car here https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle
Yep, probably going to kick in as early as 2018 if the Mayor get his way, depends on the results of the current one, price goes up as well, 10 quid for petrol, diesel cars around £22, Van and Comericail as much as £100 Plus, not only 24 hours but gets reset at midnight, so if you pop in a 10pm and pop out at 12.01 a few hours later then your into 2 days worth.
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Firstly, I would imagine the London mayor would want the ULEZ to kick in well before 2020, as he will be fighting an election campaign by then and any potential successor could vow to scrap it before it gets off the ground.
Secondly, this could have unforeseen consequences as, possibly, lots of banking jobs could have already left London by then and this could drive some small businesses to relocate outside the zone.
I wouldn’t try to predict the outcome of all of this, but it may rebalance the economy away from the capital.....a bit.....and that might just be one of the intentions. There are a lot of ifs, ands and buts at this stage and, no doubt, many affected groups will be making their views clear in time.
Let’s face it, we have to do something about the amount of pollution in our big cities, people’s health is being severely affected. So, if the powers that be can reduce the smog and coin it in at the same time, well...win win...for them.
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My '51 Reg 2.6 auto is exempt.
The charge does not apply at weekends and outside the CZ times, and I would generally only want to go to London at weekends anyway - if ever.
Bring Boris back!
Ron.
:-\ Wonder how that works, really makes sense, I am on an 01 plate 2.6 but manual, which should not really make a difference, or does it?
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My '51 Reg 2.6 auto is exempt.
The charge does not apply at weekends and outside the CZ times, and I would generally only want to go to London at weekends anyway - if ever.
Bring Boris back!
Ron.
:-\ Wonder how that works, really makes sense, I am on an 01 plate 2.6 but manual, which should not really make a difference, or does it?
i've asked vauxhall/psa for "A signed letter from the vehicle manufacturers homologation department showing the vehicle registration mark (VRM), the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) and the Euro standard the vehicle was manufactured to" for my 01 V6 manual.
I don't hold out much hope for a response but maybe if a few people hassle them - 'vauxhall.customerassistance@vauxhall.co.uk'
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the next one down the line (for London) is the ULEZ, operating 24 hours a day and probably all the area inside the north and south circulars.
comes into force September 2020 or earlier
check your car here https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle
It's good to see that my dirty, planet killing, child murdering diesel is just fine in the ULEV (despite that BBC article the other day showing that some new diesels are worse than old diesels) ;D
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the next one down the line (for London) is the ULEZ, operating 24 hours a day and probably all the area inside the north and south circulars.
comes into force September 2020 or earlier
check your car here https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle
It's good to see that my dirty, planet killing, child murdering diesel is just fine in the ULEV (despite that BBC article the other day showing that some new diesels are worse than old diesels) ;D
What about the Cobra? :D
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What about the Cobra? :D
;D ;D Hm, good question.. it'll have no stated emissions on the V5, so I assume I'd have to pay should I ever want to terrorise central london ;D
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The Daily politics had a very interesting section on this yesterday. The director of Client earth - who was all over our screens yesterday, making claims about thousands of deaths etc. - was up against an eminent member of the medical profession, who quietly tore all his claims apart.
The Client earth man didn't even really try to argue against him, but simply rowed back and made some much less outrageous statements instead.
I would imagine its available on iplayer for anyone interested.
The short version is that the hyperbole being spouted by mayor Kahn and his buddies, about thousands of deaths every year in London due to vehicle exhaust fumes, are utter shite.
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The Daily politics had a very interesting section on this yesterday. The director of Client earth - who was all over our screens yesterday, making claims about thousands of deaths etc. - was up against an eminent member of the medical profession, who quietly tore all his claims apart.
The Client earth man didn't even really try to argue against him, but simply rowed back and made some much less outrageous statements instead.
I would imagine its available on iplayer for anyone interested.
The short version is that the hyperbole being spouted by mayor Kahn and his buddies, about thousands of deaths every year in London due to vehicle exhaust fumes, are utter shite.
It really doesn’t matter, Albs, the political bandwagon is well and truly rolling. Whether you see it as stopping pollution or raising revenue, it’s going to happen.
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Let’s face it, we have to do something about the amount of pollution in our big cities, people’s health is being severely affected. So, if the powers that be can reduce the smog and coin it in at the same time, well...win win...for them.
Whilst I agree with you on the "something needs to be done" just cant help thinking the current way this is set up really is a Poor Mans Tax, quote from the Mayor last year "if you dont want to be penalized for the Charges, Buy a newer Car".
Mean while back in London there are some 10,000 Buses, 25,000 Black Cabs, and God knows how many Ad&Lee and Uber diesel driving vehicles working 24/7 who are currently Exempt from all this nonsense.
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Yep, it really is time all the old black carbs were crushed and the cabbies given Piouses instead. :y
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Let’s face it, we have to do something about the amount of pollution in our big cities, people’s health is being severely affected. So, if the powers that be can reduce the smog and coin it in at the same time, well...win win...for them.
Whilst I agree with you on the "something needs to be done" just cant help thinking the current way this is set up really is a Poor Mans Tax, quote from the Mayor last year "if you dont want to be penalized for the Charges, Buy a newer Car".
Mean while back in London there are some 10,000 Buses, 25,000 Black Cabs, and God knows how many Ad&Lee and Uber diesel driving vehicles working 24/7 who are currently Exempt from all this nonsense.
My car is a 2014 model, but I still wouldn’t escape the ULEZ payment...if I ever went near London....which I won’t. ;D
But I am not complacent. Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester etc. will all implement similar systems, esp. when they see how much revenue it can raise. Overhead gantries started appearing in Leeds a few years ago, no doubt with the purpose of traffic management in mind. But it wouldn’t take much imagination to use the cameras on them to start charging.
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Yep, it really is time all the old black carbs were crushed and the cabbies given Piouses instead. :y
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/98450/new-tx-electric-london-taxi-priced-at-55599
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Yep, it really is time all the old black carbs were crushed and the cabbies given Piouses instead. :y
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/98450/new-tx-electric-london-taxi-priced-at-55599
all new black taxis will have to be hybrid at least from 1/1/2018. But the old (and T-charge exempt) ones will carry on until the owners feel inclined to grab the £40m TfL is offering them to retire their smokers.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/row-erupts-over-black-cab-exemption-to-planned-ultra-low-emission-zone-a3506996.html
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My car is a 2014 model, but I still wouldn’t escape the ULEZ payment...if I ever went near London....which I won’t. ;D
But I am not complacent. Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester etc. will all implement similar systems, esp. when they see how much revenue it can raise. Overhead gantries started appearing in Leeds a few years ago, no doubt with the purpose of traffic management in mind. But it wouldn’t take much imagination to use the cameras on them to start charging.
The key difference IMHO is that London has the public transport infrastructure in place to support people to not drive. Even I, wedded to my car though I am, don't routinely drive into central London. That said, I haven't been to any of the cities you mention in a couple of years, but I'd be amazed if public transport was a bona fide alternative. It certainly isn't in Nottingham, where I was last weekend (and another city looking at the implementation of no-go zones for older cars).
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In another generation when everyone is driving supposedly non polluting cars, they will have to dream up some other guilt trip for everyone to be forced to contribute to the coffers.
At some point the state will either need to shrink, or take the Corbynist/ Marxist route, and take control of wealth, and redistribute it as they see fit.
Thankfully, I wont be around to see it, as its obvious which side of the argument has been slowly but surely winning over the last half century or so.
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My 1.6 soot chucker is exempt :y
Not that I go to London very often.....
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vx have now asked for my chassis number so I am hopeful of a reply. surely it will be positive, i can't see any difference between my car and the euro 4 shed of the week :-\.
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My car is a 2014 model, but I still wouldn’t escape the ULEZ payment...if I ever went near London....which I won’t. ;D
But I am not complacent. Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester etc. will all implement similar systems, esp. when they see how much revenue it can raise. Overhead gantries started appearing in Leeds a few years ago, no doubt with the purpose of traffic management in mind. But it wouldn’t take much imagination to use the cameras on them to start charging.
The key difference IMHO is that London has the public transport infrastructure in place to support people to not drive. Even I, wedded to my car though I am, don't routinely drive into central London. That said, I haven't been to any of the cities you mention in a couple of years, but I'd be amazed if public transport was a bona fide alternative. It certainly isn't in Nottingham, where I was last weekend (and another city looking at the implementation of no-go zones for older cars).
Correct in theory but doesn't work in practice. My daughter lives in central London, and is a lifelong Asthma sufferer. She doesn't suffer problems while walking around the streets, but travelling on the underground In rush hour causes all sorts of breathing problems, due to the complete lack of clean fresh air, due to crazy numbers of people crammed into the carriages like sardines.
If they transported animals in that way, they would be prosecuted for cruelty.
Remedying that would probably cost a lot of money though, as opposed to generating it.
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travelling on the underground In rush hour causes all sorts of breathing problems,
Busses are also available :P and I hear they are a great way of meeting new craziespeople.
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https://youtu.be/0dftDPLAylU
Old but still good ;D
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My '51 Reg 2.6 auto is exempt.
The charge does not apply at weekends and outside the CZ times, and I would generally only want to go to London at weekends anyway - if ever.
Bring Boris back!
Ron.
:-\ Wonder how that works, really makes sense, I am on an 01 plate 2.6 but manual, which should not really make a difference, or does it?
Manual cars are generally less poluting than otherwise identical autos ;)
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Vauxhall replied to me:
"The VIN above is compliant with Euro 2 emissions.
Exhaust Emission approval is: 1999/102A
Exhaust emissions:
CO: 0.522 g/km
HC: 0.112 g/km
NOx: 0.066 g/km
CO2 is 255g / km"
still think shed of the week, which is euro 4, is an identical car https://www.pistonheads.com/news/shed-of-the-week/shed-of-the-week-vauxhall-omega-v6/32513
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Yep, it really is time all the old black carbs were crushed and the cabbies given Piouses instead. :y
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/98450/new-tx-electric-london-taxi-priced-at-55599
all new black taxis will have to be hybrid at least from 1/1/2018. But the old (and T-charge exempt) ones will carry on until the owners feel inclined to grab the £40m TfL is offering them to retire their smokers.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/row-erupts-over-black-cab-exemption-to-planned-ultra-low-emission-zone-a3506996.html
So, they didn't think to address the elephant in the room - that they weigh about 3 tonnes and have the aerodynamics of a sub-post office? ;)
Still, that only comes into play while they're actually moving, which is rare. ;D
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Vauxhall replied to me:
"The VIN above is compliant with Euro 2 emissions.
Exhaust Emission approval is: 1999/102A
Exhaust emissions:
CO: 0.522 g/km
HC: 0.112 g/km
NOx: 0.066 g/km
CO2 is 255g / km"
still think shed of the week, which is euro 4, is an identical car https://www.pistonheads.com/news/shed-of-the-week/shed-of-the-week-vauxhall-omega-v6/32513
I think your going to be hard pushed to convince TfL even if it was Euro 4, they seem to have convonced them selves that pre 2006 is the cut off point anyway.
He says, with interest, as with 2 x 2003 3.2 Manual Specials which are potentaily Euro 4 but dont show on the list?. :-\
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Well, if GM say Euro 2, that ain't Euro 5, so game over ;D
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Well, if GM say Euro 2, that ain't Euro 5, so game over ;D
I thought the next Mayor 2018/19 Penalties (North and South Circular, then all London Boroughs) where Euro 4 ?,
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i replied to vaux saying why is an identical car (shed of the week) exempt and mine not, they said 'send in the VIN for KE02 FJO and they will check it'. of course i don't have it.
could someone with a manual 2.6 V6 that passes the t-charge check (here https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/compliance-checker) please send their 17 character VIN/chassis number to me or direct jonathan.bell@vauxhall.co.uk and ask him to check the emissions/euro standard for their car?
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Well, if GM say Euro 2, that ain't Euro 5, so game over ;D
euro 4 is the standard to meet ???
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I think your going to be hard pushed to convince TfL even if it was Euro 4, they seem to have convonced them selves that pre 2006 is the cut off point anyway.
He says, with interest, as with 2 x 2003 3.2 Manual Specials which are potentaily Euro 4 but dont show on the list?. :-\
TfL: "If you believe that your vehicle meets the Euro 4 / IV standard (Euro 3 if you are a motorised tricycle or quadricycle), you will need to register it with us providing evidence of its emissions. " https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/registration-47575
Then you will need to Upload documents:
"We need to see evidence showing the vehicles qualifies for registration do that you don’t have to pay the T-Charge. We need to see evidence showing the vehicles qualifies for registration do that you don’t have to pay the T-Charge. Please upload images of
The vehicle registration document (V5C or country equivalent)
AND
A signed letter from the vehicle manufacturers homologation department showing the vehicle registration mark (VRM), the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) and the Euro standard the vehicle was manufactured to.
"
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Well, if GM say Euro 2, that ain't Euro 5, so game over ;D
euro 4 is the standard to meet ???
£1 says 12 months after it's introduced it's increased to Euro5 :)
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It may or may not be 12 months, but it will happen. The other bet is whether the zone is increased to encompass the North / South circular, or everything inside the M25. It will definitely be one of these two options.
A few Years ago Cameron declared the war on the motorist was over, but now they are readying the nukes to be fired in the near future.
The transport (and personal freedom it brought) that we have known for the last 100 years is coming to an end within the next decade. :'(
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Well, if GM say Euro 2, that ain't Euro 5, so game over ;D
I thought the next Mayor 2018/19 Penalties (North and South Circular, then all London Boroughs) where Euro 4 ?,
Sorry, yes, stupid gayPhone + fat fingers
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i replied to vaux saying why is an identical car (shed of the week) exempt and mine not, they said 'send in the VIN for KE02 FJO and they will check it'. of course i don't have it.
could someone with a manual 2.6 V6 that passes the t-charge check (here https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/compliance-checker) please send their 17 character VIN/chassis number to me or direct jonathan.bell@vauxhall.co.uk and ask him to check the emissions/euro standard for their car?
Age. Irrespective of reality, older cars were only tested against the standard in force
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The information I gave was from the 2003 brochure, so I would suggest that you ask the chap at Vauxhall to actually look up the information, because no facelift dbw Omega is Euro 2 ::)
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The information I gave was from the 2003 brochure, so I would suggest that you ask the chap at Vauxhall to actually look up the information, because no facelift dbw Omega is Euro 2 ::)
http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/library/vauxhall%20omega%20emissions
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The information I gave was from the 2003 brochure, so I would suggest that you ask the chap at Vauxhall to actually look up the information, because no facelift dbw Omega is Euro 2 ::)
http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/05omegav6/library/vauxhall%20omega%20emissions
thanks I asked him he has just replied "Your vehicle was type approved to Euro 2 emissions, not Euro 3 emissions." So a 2.6V6 manual f/l registered in Jan 2001 is euro 2 but the same car registered in 2002 is euro4/T-charge exempt. V odd.
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Especially as their own literature clearly states that the V6s are all Euro 3 regardless of gearbox :-\
Incidentally that brochure was printed in Jan '03 and is edition 2.
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They must have had a really good crystal ball at GM in 2002 to be type approving cars to the Euro 4 standard that didn't yet exist. Alternatively, TFL's database could be a load of horse-do-do. ;)
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They must have had a really good crystal ball at GM in 2002 to be type approving cars to the Euro 4 standard that didn't yet exist. Alternatively, TFL's database could be a load of horse-do-do. ;)
How dare you say that, you mean a Government Body got there facts wrong?,... never, ever Kevin .... ;D ;D :D ::) :-[ :o :D ;D ;D
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They must have had a really good crystal ball at GM in 2002 to be type approving cars to the Euro 4 standard that didn't yet exist. Alternatively, TFL's database could be a load of horse-do-do. ;)
How dare you say that, you mean a Government Body got there facts wrong?,... never, ever Kevin .... ;D ;D :D ::) :-[ :o :D ;D ;D
Not necessarily, I mean that a government body are more likely to figure out how to walk on Mars than maintain a useful and efficient IT system.
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They must have had a really good crystal ball at GM in 2002 to be type approving cars to the Euro 4 standard that didn't yet exist. Alternatively, TFL's database could be a load of horse-do-do. ;)
How dare you say that, you mean a Government Body got there facts wrong?,... never, ever Kevin .... ;D ;D :D ::) :-[ :o :D ;D ;D
Not necessarily, I mean that a government body are more likely to figure out how to walk on Mars than maintain a useful and efficient IT system.
Which will be outsourced to the usual incompetent mongs such as Accenture, TCS and TechM etc... ...which in most cases will have to have a high churn of staff, as they have to ship personnel in from the Indian subcontinent, as most government data isn't allowed to leave the UK, and it will take most of the personnel several weeks out of their 6 month stint to get security clearance, and the rest of the time to get access to the systems and understand the stupid procedures thought up by suits with no concept of the consequences.