Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Mr Skrunts on 10 August 2008, 00:03:21
-
First of all, if anyone objects with this thread then please say and I will be more than happy for Admin to delete it.
Ok, the reason for this thread.
When I was 14 and in the scouts, I was a patrol leader, and on a local jamboree we had the Army in attendance. After spending the weekend with us all the Patrol leaders, assistant patrol leaders and scout group leaders were invited up to Totly to thier shooting range.
We got 2 lots of 10 shots each for which I got all bullets in the square on the soldiers chest on the target. I believe we used a .303 riffle.
As a result of the scores 2 of us were invited to shoot with the South Yorkshite Champion in Wath who was a crack shot with a Winchester .22 Competition riffle. His party piece was to shot and make one hole and causually pass the next 9 shots through the same hole.
My 10 shots I got excellent grouping, all in the diameter of a 2p piece, downside is they all missed the centre of the target by 8 inches.
For the ist time in my life I was told I fired a riffle Lefthanded.
I am a right handed person, but shoot riffle and Archery left hand, play cricket right handed only, but can use left or right handed golf clubs, all found out as a teenager.
My interest in target shooting has never gone away, with all the problems in guns over the years, the amnestys, shooting club closures I just put the idea to the back of my head.
All I have done since I was 14 Was buy a BSA Mercury when I was 18 for a bit of target shooting within the family in the back garden, and a bit of rat culling with a mate using his 12 bore and .410 shotgun about 25 years ago, plus an evening of clay pigeon shooting in one of the Famers fields one evening on an organised event.
I have just had a look at our local shops web site and saw the range of riffles on all levels all the way up to cheap competition riffles costing a grand to £1500. Some riffle of the standard brak barrel type and loads of the air bottle type.
My questions are as follows.
What is the law on Riffles these days, where can/cant be used. I know they are not allowed out unless covered in a bag say puting them in the car in public area's, I believe they cannot be used within 75 feet/yards (?) of a public high way. Other than that I know nothing.
Where/what sort of places can I contact for competive shooting, or in my case just for fun and practice at the moment.
Brand of Riffle to go for,
.177, .22 or .25 which is best and why.
Anyone into this sport, past or present.
Any advice gratfully appreciated.
TIA. :y
-
Airguns in the UK are subject to the firearms acts, under the Firearms (Dangerous air weapons) rules 1969 they are classified as low powered Air Weapons and as such they are restricted to a maximum power of 12 foot pounds force for a rifle and 6 foot pounds force for a pistol. Above 12ftlb a rifle is classified as a Section 1 Firearm and requires a licence called a firearms certificate, and a pistol above 6ftlb is again a Section 1 Firearm requiring a firearms certificate in the UK.
The definition of a firearm under the act is "a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged" it further defines "lethal weapon" as "a weapon capable of firing a projectile with sufficient force to inflict more than a trivial injury i.e.. with sufficient force to puncture skin".
The Home Office consider the lowest level of muzzle energy capable of inflicting a penetrating wound is one foot pound (1.35 joules) hence guns producing less than 1ft/lb are not covered by the act and therefore not classified as air weapons or subject to any restrictions.
The 1997 Firearms Amendment Act made handguns illegal in the UK but Air Weapons were excluded under Section 5 (1) subsection (aba) "a prohibited weapon includes a firearm with a barrel length less than 30cms and an overall length less than 60cms, other than an air weapon, a muzzle loading gun, or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus".
UK Legal Limit
To calculate the power of an airgun you need to use a chronograph to measure the speed of the pellet (in feet per second) when fired, and you need to know the weight of the pellet in grains. Once you have that information you perform the following calculation:- speed(ft/sec) X speed(ft/sec) X weight(grains) 450240
This gives you the result in foot pounds force (ftlb).
As mentioned the legal maximum for an unlicensed air rifle is 12 ftlb which from changing round the above formula, gives the approximate values as follows:-
A .22 pellet weighing 14.4 grains, maximum permissible speed is 612 ft/sec
A .177 pellet weighing 7.9 grains, maximum permissible speed is 826 ft/sec
The corresponding figures for a pistol are 433 ft/sec for a .22 and 584 ft/sec for a .177
The pellet weights used in the above calculation are typical weights for the sizes of pellet but you must always check the actual weight of your pellet before performing your own calculation.
Purchasing Guns and Ammunition
The laws concerning the purchase of guns and ammunition are as follows:-
Any person under the age of 14 years of age may not purchase or own guns or ammunition.
Persons aged between 14 and 17 years may not purchase guns or ammunition but may borrow or have them purchased on their behalf by some one over 17 years of age.
Persons over the age of 17 years may purchase guns and ammunition, the guns having a power less than the UK legal limit. Guns over that limit require a fire arms certificate to be granted before they can be owned.
Airguns and Young Persons
The laws concerning the use of airguns by young persons are as follows:-
Any one under the age of 14 can only use an airgun whilst under the direct supervision and control of someone over 21, whilst on private property with the permission of the owner of the premises.
A person aged between 14 and 17 can use an airgun on private property where they have a right to be, without supervision.
They may carry an unloaded rifle (but not a pistol) in a public place only if it is in a securely fastened gun cover so that it cannot be fired, an under 14 year old must again be directly supervised by an over 21 year old.
A pistol can only be carried by someone over 17, again it must be unloaded and in a securely fastened case.
Public Places and Highways
You may never have an airgun in a public place without proper reason for doing so. If you are travelling to and from a place where you have the right to shoot, the gun must be in a case as above. A gun is loaded if there is a pellet or any form of projectile in it, including an "air weapon which has a loaded magazine, is loaded even though there is no round in the breach".
It is an offence to fire an airgun within 50 feet of the centre of a public highway, If by doing so you cause any member of the public using that highway to be injured, interrupted or endangered. This applies even if you are on private property adjacent the highway. Public highways include roads, bridleways and public footpaths.
Trespass
If you go on to any land, including over water and in buildings, without permission you are Trespassing. If you have an Airgun with you it is classed as Armed Trespass which is a serious Criminal offence even if the gun is not loaded
Airgun Prey
The following pests are considered suitable for controlling using a sub-12 ftlb Airgun.
Brown Rat, Grey Squirrel, Rabbit, Crow, Rook, Magpie, Jay, Wood pigeon, Collared Dove, Feral Pigeon, House mouse, Sparrow, Starling, and recently Mink have been added to the list.
These are not always considered pests and only Authorised Persons can shoot them in all circumstances.
Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981
All bird and animals are protected by law. Certain species are classified as pests or vermin and only these species can be legitimately shot and then only by authorised persons. An Authorised Person is someone who has the proper permission from the land owner to control pests on that land.
Within that list of designated pests some are not suitable prey for an airgun producing less than 12 ftlbs.
-
Think the first place I would start would be looking for a local gun club, and take it from there. :)
-
My tool of choice
Arm Arms Tx200 MkV - Carbine with anti Recoil + Wallnut stock, 3-12x50 scope.
In the .177 flavour
-
Cheers Jue, will have a good read through that tomorrow. :y :y
-
Offence Penalties
Statute Law
The Penalties for breaking current UK firearms laws with Airguns are as follows:-
Carrying a loaded Air-weapon in a public place 6 months imprisonment and / or £5,000 fine.
Trespassing with an air weapon 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
Trespassing on private land with an air weapon 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
Possessing or using an air weapon if sentenced to 3 months or more in custody 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
In addition if original sentence up to 3 years 5 year ban on use of firearms.
Or if for 3 years or more Life ban on use of firearms.
Killing or injuring any bird or protected animal unless authorised £5,000 fine.
Firing an air weapon within 15m / 50ft of a public highway £1,000 fine.
Selling or hiring air weapon or ammunition to person under 17 6 months imprisonment and / or £5,000 fine.
Making a gift of air weapon or ammunition to person under 14 £1,000 fine.
Having air weapon or ammunition with intent to damage property 10 years imprisonment.
Having air weapon with intent to endanger life Life imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Using air weapon to resist or prevent arrest Life imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Threatening others with an air weapon (even if unloaded) to cause them to fear unlawful violence 10 years imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Not forgetting the chance of being shot and killed by the police should you not obey instructions when challenged by them, they cannot tell if you have just an airgun or a more lethal firearm so will treat all arms as lethal and respond accordingly.
Civil Law
It should be born in mind by every airgun shooter that the unexpected could happen and they could find themselves facing a civil action for damage to property or even injury to persons or livestock. Every airgun shooter should have Third Party Public Liability Insurance before venturing out of doors, and joining one of the bodies representing shooters interests is the best way to achieve this.
Hope that clarifies thing for you phil :y
http://www.bullybeef.co.uk/index.htm
-
Think the first place I would start would be looking for a local gun club, and take it from there. :)
Was just about to say the same. :y
Kevin
-
My tool of choice
Arm Arms Tx200 MkV - Carbine with anti Recoil + Wallnut stock, 3-12x50 scope.
In the .177 flavour
Local shop has this one.
TX 200 Mk3 Classic full power under lever cocker available in .177 or .22 cal £319.99 beech or £335.00 walnut
-
Firing an air weapon within 15m / 50ft of a public highway £1,000 fine.
Distance seems shorter than I rember the last time I looked it up
-
My tool of choice
Arm Arms Tx200 MkV - Carbine with anti Recoil + Wallnut stock, 3-12x50 scope.
In the .177 flavour
Local shop has this one.
TX 200 Mk3 Classic full power under lever cocker available in .177 or .22 cal £319.99 beech or £335.00 walnut
Yeah the MkIII is the US MkV, same gun
Really good gun
-
when we were on the ranges and the days exercise was over, we had to empty all pouches on our webbing and reload any loose rounds into mag and then let loose on auto, to get rid of any ammo that we had left.
Anyone found with a round after that time was put on a charge.
If you are found in possession by the civil authorities then the law states: up to 10 year, not that I have heard of anyone being given that. Slap wrist sounds more like it.
Thats why the YOOF's are like they are today
Opinion stated. :-X
-
One of the other reasons I was interested again in shooting, was farmyard pest control, some information is there on the bottom of the regs. :y
-
Is SWMBO included in pest control, If so I need to go get 1 ;D ;D ;D
-
Is SWMBO included in pest control, If so I need to go get 1 ;D ;D ;D
You rotten Baskit
just coz see wants you to get rid of the Mig
-
Is SWMBO included in pest control, If so I need to go get 1 ;D ;D ;D
You rotten Baskit
just coz see wants you to get rid of the Mig
I see she isnt online, I was just going to get the wooden spoon aou and spoil the rest of your weekend. ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I'm into shooting too (I'm a shotgun licence holder)
As for calibre of air rifle - in my experience, it's totally up to personal preference. Me personally - I've always preferred .22 air rifles for hunting/pest control, and .177 for target shooting.
When I first found out that I was half-decent at shooting, it was pretty much in the same situation as you Skruntie - I was in the Cadets, and we went to the rifle range at an RAF Base. Had to get a 1inch grouping at 100meters (which I did, much to my amazement!). That was using an L98 - a single-shot version of the SA80 (uses the same 5.56mm ammo). After that, I shot the SA80 too (using both iron sightes, and the telescopic "SUSAT" sights), and a very old Lee Enfield No. 8 (.22 bolt action rifle).
As Jue says, after being on the ranges, we had to make a declaration to the range officer (whom had lined us all up, sood to attention) along the lines of "I have no live rounds or empty cases in my posession SIR!"
To me (and each to their own I suppose) - air rifle shooting is a great hobby and I'd recommend it to anyone :y
-
I'm into shooting too (I'm a shotgun licence holder)
As for calibre of air rifle - in my experience, it's totally up to personal preference. Me personally - I've always preferred .22 air rifles for hunting/pest control, and .177 for target shooting.
When I first found out that I was half-decent at shooting, it was pretty much in the same situation as you Skruntie - I was in the Cadets, and we went to the rifle range at an RAF Base. Had to get a 1inch grouping at 100meters (which I did, much to my amazement!). That was using an L98 - a single-shot version of the SA80 (uses the same 5.56mm ammo). After that, I shot the SA80 too (using both iron sightes, and the telescopic "SUSAT" sights), and a very old Lee Enfield No. 8 (.22 bolt action rifle).
As Jue says, after being on the ranges, we had to make a declaration to the range officer (whom had lined us all up, sood to attention) along the lines of "I have no live rounds or empty cases in my posession SIR!"
To me (and each to their own I suppose) - air rifle shooting is a great hobby and I'd recommend it to anyone :y
I was trying to remember if were on 100 or 200 yards on the range, and I dont how big the white square was. So on par with the T/A I dont know how good I really was.
There was one old geezerthat poped up with a musket riffle, he powdered it all up and prepared it. and then took aim and blew a bloody great patch through the target, so guesing we may have been at 100 yards. The Musket was an experiance to watch.
-
But as an aside, (I apologise beforehand folks for going into rant mode...! And I don't mean to offend anyone) - I feel that shooting has had it's fair share of bad press - and a lot of it is undue.
Since the banning of handguns, the amount of handgun-related crime has actually increased! To me, this just goes to show that even though us law-abiding cannot purchase a handgun for target-shooting at a Police-registered gun club, criminals can still get hold of them.
And a gun will never kill nor injure anybody - it's the person holding it that does. I have tought both my children how to shoot (under my full supervision at all times obviously, without any lee-way on this at all!) - but before they even laid a finger on the gun (air rifle - a 12-bore would prob dislocate their shoulders... ::) ), they got read the riot act on gun safety (always pointing it in a safe direction - whether loaded or not, always treating a gun as loaded, always keeping the safety catch on until ready to take the shot, always making sure that the target has a suitable back-stop, and always breaking the barrel open before moving away from the firing point).
Following simple rules like these, and no-one will get hurt :y
-
But as an aside, (I apologise beforehand folks for going into rant mode...! And I don't mean to offend anyone) - I feel that shooting has had it's fair share of bad press - and a lot of it is undue.
Since the banning of handguns, the amount of handgun-related crime has actually increased! To me, this just goes to show that even though us law-abiding cannot purchase a handgun for target-shooting at a Police-registered gun club, criminals can still get hold of them.
And a gun will never kill nor injure anybody - it's the person holding it that does. I have tought both my children how to shoot (under my full supervision at all times obviously, without any lee-way on this at all!) - but before they even laid a finger on the gun (air rifle - a 12-bore would prob dislocate their shoulders... ::) ), they got read the riot act on gun safety (always pointing it in a safe direction - whether loaded or not, always treating a gun as loaded, always keeping the safety catch on until ready to take the shot, always making sure that the target has a suitable back-stop, and always breaking the barrel open before moving away from the firing point).
Following simple rules like these, and no-one will get hurt :y
I agree matey.
it's like the knife thing, we all have extremely shrp knifes at hand in our kitcthen draws. But to carry knifes in cars and pockts in and arround town is to do so with possible intent. :-/
-
I was trying to remember if were on 100 or 200 yards on the range, and I dont how big the white square was. So on par with the T/A I dont know how good I really was.
There was one old geezerthat poped up with a musket riffle, he powdered it all up and prepared it. and then took aim and blew a bloody great patch through the target, so guesing we may have been at 100 yards. The Musket was an experiance to watch.
100yds is as near as damn it to 100 metres (well, about 92metres), so pretty much the same really. That's about as far as you can get with the iron sights really accuracy-wise. I take it you were shooting the bright orange targets with a soldier's silloette on them? They used to paste the white squares on them where the "kill zone" is, and then paste orange or black patches on the rest of the target after each shooter had finished their stand.
And as for the musket experience - haha! A bet that was quite a show! There was a similar situation at the RAF base where I shot, where they let a civilian on to shoot too (well, he looked like a civilian anyroad, unless he was an off-duty squaddie) - I seem to remember he had a .303 synthetic rifle, and was shooting targets at silly distances with it
-
I agree matey.
it's like the knife thing, we all have extremely shrp knifes at hand in our kitcthen draws. But to carry knifes in cars and pockts in and arround town is to do so with possible intent. :-/
And I agree with thee too pal! I have knives too, but the only time I carry one is when I go up to the land that I have permission on, for dispatching if needed - and that's only a short-bladed one.
-
what was the name of those airgun mags
air gun world and.............
-
what was the name of those airgun mags
air gun world and.............
I know of Airgun world.
-
Aye, I get air gun world from time to time.
The Shooting Times is a good read too, if a little "posh" - it's a bit like the "Daily Mirror" vs "The Telegraph" if you catch me drift.
But, getting back on topic - if you're after getting into airgun shooting cheaply, I'd recommend a spring gun as oppose to a gas gun (less overheads). And I would highly recommend a Weihrauch air-rifle. I can personally testify that they last for donkies years, and are of superb quality.
Depending where you are in South Yorks Skruntie, it could well be worthwhile a trip to Manchester Air Guns in Failsworth:
www.manchesterairguns.co.uk
Fantastic place, excellent customer service, and not short of advice either :y
-
This is within a few miles of me, seems he has a good reputation.
http://www.alansairrifles.co.uk/guns.htm
Theres a good place in Mexbrough as well.
-
Not really fussed regards the overheads cost.
Lot cheaper than using the 3 paintball markers I have.
-
Had a go with a Weihrauch air-rifle on the farm when I used the shotgun. Aimed at a sparrow on a pole maybe 150 yards away, never had a thought I would hit it.
never shoot a bird again, I felt awfull.
-
I learnt to shoot in the Air Training Corps, gained my RAF marksmanship as well, I have a .22 caliber air rifle with scopes on it but the only time i use it these days is target shooting down the side of the house at my parents as it has a high brick wall and fires into an old outside toilet :D
I would say if any of you guys have kids and want to get them to respect weapons then definitely get them into one of the cadets groups, for me I recommend the air training corps ;) :y
-
You could buy my Weihrauch-Theoben, hunter-carbine, break barrel, .22 silenced with Golden Antler scope & lamping kit. Lovely rifle but I never get to use it any more :(
-
You could buy my Weihrauch-Theoben, hunter-carbine, break barrel, .22 silenced with Golden Antler scope & lamping kit. Lovely rifle but I never get to use it any more :(
Steve, or anyone else.
Anything for sale, please PM me with pictures, prices and as much detail as possible.
All I will say at the moment is I dont kow what direction I am likely to go, but if the right eqipment is offered there may well be a sale.
-
You could buy my Weihrauch-Theoben, hunter-carbine, break barrel, .22 silenced with Golden Antler scope & lamping kit. Lovely rifle but I never get to use it any more :(
Send me some details and prices, and lots of piccies. :y :y :y
-
Knives
They are tools aren't they - still have a sheaf knife from when I was a sprout - no idea where it is though.
I do keep a pen knife in the car - again tool, opening boxes, cutting tape - that sort of thing.
Basically if I need to chop a hose or similar I have a tool.
Out of all my tools the long bar I use with 1/2" drive sockets would be the beast weapon, but there is no legal issue with it at all, basically it all seems to be legislation for legislations sake.
Sharpest knife is a No.11 bladed modelling knife.
-
For target shooting get a .177 as the pellet is lighter it has a flatter trajectory and thus makes more sense for accuracy. A .22 is my choice for hunting vermin for the stopping power, that said if the rifle had less than 9 ft/lb I would not use it for vermin at all whether with .177 or .22.
I have a Diana Model 50 which I rarely shoot anymore as it is considered an antique :o
My target weapon of choice now is a H&K G3 7.62 (kicks like a rather elephant gun!) Using iron sights I managed a 1" group at 200m just west of the bulls eye 8-)
Let me know what you get :y