Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 28 August 2019, 13:06:58
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The tin pot dictator ( wee krankies words) has done it now.
If only the MPs had done their job properly including Theresa May we could have had a proper deal including free trade by now with no ridiculous backstop.
Popcorn time 🍿 🍿
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Yes, it will be an interesting few weeks. Personally I hope that Brexit isn't forced through without recourse to parliament.
I'm pretty sanguine about the UK leaving the EU, its the endless waiting that is more damaging than either remaining or leaving. But from a constitutional perspective, for the government of the day to take away some fundamental rights of all citizens without recourse to parliament would set a troubling precedent.
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Been watching this all morning. It's getting a bit out of hand and, no matter what the eventual outcome, this will divide the country for years to come.
British democracy, so admired throughout the world, is teetering on the edge.
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The majority of British people voted for BREXIT.
Democracy should dictate we leave the EU come rain or sunshine.
The feeble excuse of an opposition leader, Corbyn, is again showing his disdain for democracy by trying to create a second "Parliament" and block leaving the EU, deal or no deal, against the will of the majority of the electorate. What have people like him, and many other MP's of different colours, done positively over the last 3 years? In my opinion sweet FA as they do not wish to obey the will of the people. In their arrogance they think they know better! >:( >:( >:(
I didn't like the man, but at least Boris is really trying hard to "make it happen" as the people wanted! 8) 8) :y
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The majority of British people voted for BREXIT.
Democracy should dictate we leave the EU come rain or sunshine.
The feeble excuse of an opposition leader, Corbyn, is again showing his disdain for democracy by trying to create a second "Parliament" and block leaving the EU, deal or no deal, against the will of the majority of the electorate. What have people like him, and many other MP's of different colours, done positively over the last 3 years? In my opinion sweet FA as they do not wish to obey the will of the people. In their arrogance they think they know better! >:( >:( >:(
I didn't like the man, but at least Boris is really trying hard to "make it happen" as the people wanted! 8) 8) :y
A bit of a disingenuous question no? Ms May actively blocked any discussion with the opposition until she and her team had done all the "negotiating"
It's quite hard to do something positive when you're faced with the situation: "This is the deal I've got, you didn't have a say in it, now let's talk about how you're going to support me getting it through parliament".
Which is basically what she did...
Also, for clarity, 17.5m is not the majority from a population of over 65m. The referendum result is what it is, and should be honoured, but let's be clear about what we are talking about.
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The majority of British people voted for BREXIT.
Democracy should dictate we leave the EU come rain or sunshine.
The feeble excuse of an opposition leader, Corbyn, is again showing his disdain for democracy by trying to create a second "Parliament" and block leaving the EU, deal or no deal, against the will of the majority of the electorate. What have people like him, and many other MP's of different colours, done positively over the last 3 years? In my opinion sweet FA as they do not wish to obey the will of the people. In their arrogance they think they know better! >:( >:( >:(
I didn't like the man, but at least Boris is really trying hard to "make it happen" as the people wanted! 8) 8) :y
A small majority of British voters voted for Brexit. The small majority is OK, because that's how voting (at least in the UK) works. But NOBODY involved defined what Brexit meant, how it was supposed to happen or any details. And that is why the last three years have been such a oppsup, because whatever is said or negotiated, it is and isn't "the Brexit I voted for."
Parliament is trying to define the undefinable, so that arrangements can be made. It is doing its job, and isn't the problem. That should have been sorted three years ago with a properly reasoned referendum. Suspending Parliament because of that is a very bad idea with no upside. We should not accept any excuse(there are no reasons) for it.
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The majority of British people voted for BREXIT.
Democracy should dictate we leave the EU come rain or sunshine.
The feeble excuse of an opposition leader, Corbyn, is again showing his disdain for democracy by trying to create a second "Parliament" and block leaving the EU, deal or no deal, against the will of the majority of the electorate. What have people like him, and many other MP's of different colours, done positively over the last 3 years? In my opinion sweet FA as they do not wish to obey the will of the people. In their arrogance they think they know better! >:( >:( >:(
I didn't like the man, but at least Boris is really trying hard to "make it happen" as the people wanted! 8) 8) :y
A small majority of British voters voted for Brexit. The small majority is OK, because that's how voting (at least in the UK) works. But NOBODY involved defined what Brexit meant, how it was supposed to happen or any details. And that is why the last three years have been such a oppsup, because whatever is said or negotiated, it is and isn't "the Brexit I voted for."
Parliament is trying to define the undefinable, so that arrangements can be made. It is doing its job, and isn't the problem. That should have been sorted three years ago with a properly reasoned referendum. Suspending Parliament because of that is a very bad idea with no upside. We should not accept any excuse(there are no reasons) for it.
Eh, the timing of the Queen's Speech? ::) ::)
I voted to remain, but now, after what has been happening in the EU and with our politicians, I am more than happy to allow the BREXIT the majority of people who voted and wanted, to happen (that is what the result DID mean) , and happen as soon as possible!
It is a disgrace that it has taken our politicians so long! >:( >:(
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The majority of British people voted for BREXIT.
Democracy should dictate we leave the EU come rain or sunshine.
The feeble excuse of an opposition leader, Corbyn, is again showing his disdain for democracy by trying to create a second "Parliament" and block leaving the EU, deal or no deal, against the will of the majority of the electorate. What have people like him, and many other MP's of different colours, done positively over the last 3 years? In my opinion sweet FA as they do not wish to obey the will of the people. In their arrogance they think they know better! >:( >:( >:(
I didn't like the man, but at least Boris is really trying hard to "make it happen" as the people wanted! 8) 8) :y
I'll remind you all again, under the British constitutional PARLIAMENT is sovereign, not the people. The people can vote for whatever they want, and this may or may not get parliament to do (or not do) something, but the constitutional buck stops with Parliament. There is no requirement that Parliament "obey the will of the people".
Yes the people voted for BREXIT, but parliament does NOT have to take any notice. Arguments to the contrary misunderstand the constitution. Now you can argue for constitutional change if you wish, but as things stand I suspect suspending Parliament against the wishes of Parliament is going to end up in the constitutional courts pretty quickly.
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Ahem, we do NOT have a Constitution in Britain: ask the Queen.
Ron.
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Ahem, we do NOT have a Constitution in Britain: ask the Queen.
Ron.
Actually, we do, the constitution is the set of rules that sets out the governance of the country. We don't have a written (or codified) constitution like the USA do, ours is based on precedent and is principles based but it is a constitution nonetheless.
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Ahem, we do NOT have a Constitution in Britain: ask the Queen.
Ron.
Wrong. We don't have a written constitution like the Yanks, but a constitution based on laws passed by Parliament.
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Here we go again. Parliament voted in favour of a referendum and stated that they would carry out the result of it. At this point, Parliament handed its decision making power in this matter to the people. Parliament voted to enact article 50, and so voted to enact the result of the referendum.
They had little chioce but to do this as they couldnt be seen as only willing to carry out the result if the people gave the answer they wanted them to. So, despite voting to enact article 50, and therefore leave the EU, they have been squirming, twisting and turning in every anti democratic way they can imagine to attempt to kill the process by any method possible, as long as it wasnt overt.
Taking the final steps out of the hands of Parliament at this time in order to allow its previous decisions, and the referendum result to take place, is possibly the most democratic thing that could happen at the present time.
Our current Parliament is very anti democratic, and the sooner it is gone the better. Hopefuly there will be an election, sooner rather than later.
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Agreed almost entirely, Albs, except that it wasn't exactly covert - we all sussed them out!
Go Boris, and get the job done that the woman could not. :y
Ron.
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It's like watching a game of chess. :)
Yesterday the various remainer parties gathered at Church House to announce their Anti-No Deal Alliance, which really means the Anti BREXIT Alliance and today Boris gets the Queen to prorogue Parliament to limit the time they have to act, which probably means they will have to resort to a vote of no confidence. ::)
I've read elsewhere that with Parliament being suspended for the conference season anyway, the prorogation only takes away 3 days of Parliamentary business. ;) Not that you'd know that, what with all the outrage in the remain-stream media.... ::)
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The tin pot dictator ( wee krankies words) has done it now.
If only the MPs had done their job properly including Theresa May we could have had a proper deal including free trade by now with no ridiculous backstop.
Popcorn time 🍿 🍿
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Mr varche I thought you were now a Spanish resident, so our policies shouldn't affect you.
Also parliament are acting against the will of the people, and in history this has caused massive unrest, which in modern society won't happen. All Boris is doing is what the people voted for to leave Europe, deal or no deal, and I hope he sorts it out.
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The majority of British people voted for BREXIT.
Democracy should dictate we leave the EU come rain or sunshine.
The feeble excuse of an opposition leader, Corbyn, is again showing his disdain for democracy by trying to create a second "Parliament" and block leaving the EU, deal or no deal, against the will of the majority of the electorate. What have people like him, and many other MP's of different colours, done positively over the last 3 years? In my opinion sweet FA as they do not wish to obey the will of the people. In their arrogance they think they know better! >:( >:( >:(
I didn't like the man, but at least Boris is really trying hard to "make it happen" as the people wanted! 8) 8) :y
I'll remind you all again, under the British constitutional PARLIAMENT is sovereign, not the people. The people can vote for whatever they want, and this may or may not get parliament to do (or not do) something, but the constitutional buck stops with Parliament. There is no requirement that Parliament "obey the will of the people".
Yes the people voted for BREXIT, but parliament does NOT have to take any notice. Arguments to the contrary misunderstand the constitution. Now you can argue for constitutional change if you wish, but as things stand I suspect suspending Parliament against the wishes of Parliament is going to end up in the constitutional courts pretty quickly.
Absolutely correct, as I have stated before on this forum :y :y
However, all the MP's of Parliament and the Government take a huge risk politically, and career wise, if they do ignore the will of the people over a major national issue - such as BREXIT. Just listen to what is being said on the streets by "the people" about the whole BREXIT affair, and now with these latest developments. The people, you and me, along with those normally lacking any interest in this subject, have had enough of the politicians and what is seen by them as 'anti-democratic' actions. What we will do remains of course to be seen, and talk of "a revolution" is probably unrealistic as we are British and do not go in for such things! But, come any future General Election the fragmentation of political parties and British politics will be severe. The complete lack of trust now is so obvious Boris MAY rescue the Conservatives if he brings BREXIT home, but if not it will be curtains, but not only for him but Corbyn and Labour as well.
They will then know, along with many of their colleagues, what it means to take no notice of the electorate and destroy the trust of the people.
AS for the Constitution; yes, we have one but as already been said, in codified form, not one small written volume like the USA has. The British one has been formed by thousands of changes of law, written down in many hundreds of documents that go back, effectively - if not before - to The Magna Carta, the 1225 edition, then rolls on from that point through English, then British law enactments.
Also, unlike the USA written version, the British Constitution can be easily changed by Acts of Parliament, with thousands of 'revisions' over the centuries. Maybe the next Law to be enacted should be to reform Parliament, getting rid of the House of Lords, reducing the number of MP's, and charging them with the defined legal responsibility to carry out the wishes of the majority of the electorate, with it becoming a criminal offence to not lodge your vote during National Elections and Referendums.
Radical? Yes, too true, and this country needs the changes now! ;)
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Like this, you mean...
While the NSDAP performed better than it had in the elections of November 1932, it still won only 33% of the vote. By placing their rivals in jail and intimidating others not to take their seats, the Nazis went from a plurality to the majority. Just two weeks after election, the Enabling Act of 1933 effectively gave Hitler dictatorial power. Three more elections were held in Nazi Germany before the war. They all took the form of a one-question referendum, asking voters to approve a predetermined list of candidates composed exclusively of Nazis and nominally independent "guests" of the party. :P
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Like this, you mean...
While the NSDAP performed better than it had in the elections of November 1932, it still won only 33% of the vote. By placing their rivals in jail and intimidating others not to take their seats, the Nazis went from a plurality to the majority. Just two weeks after election, the Enabling Act of 1933 effectively gave Hitler dictatorial power. Three more elections were held in Nazi Germany before the war. They all took the form of a one-question referendum, asking voters to approve a predetermined list of candidates composed exclusively of Nazis and nominally independent "guests" of the party. :P
Hitler had aims and a plan.
Boris..........doesn't.
And now we're comparing Boris to Hitler :o
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I see the queen has finally commented. She said "He is not the Prime Minister, he's a very naughty boy ". ;D
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Like this, you mean...
While the NSDAP performed better than it had in the elections of November 1932, it still won only 33% of the vote. By placing their rivals in jail and intimidating others not to take their seats, the Nazis went from a plurality to the majority. Just two weeks after election, the Enabling Act of 1933 effectively gave Hitler dictatorial power. Three more elections were held in Nazi Germany before the war. They all took the form of a one-question referendum, asking voters to approve a predetermined list of candidates composed exclusively of Nazis and nominally independent "guests" of the party. :P
Hitler had aims and a plan.
Boris..........doesn't.
And now we're comparing Boris to Hitler :o
Not specifically, but it goes to show how referendums can be fielded as a tool of control or influence. ;)
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I saw Comrade Corbyn speaking on TV earlier. He was complaining bitterly about this PM who had only been put in place by a tiny fraction of the electorate.
Last week comrade Corbyn was trying to convince just over 300 people (a majority of MP,s) to throw out the present PM and install him in Downing street. ::) ;D ;D
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If only the MPs had done their job properly including Theresa May we could have had a proper deal including free trade by now with no ridiculous backstop.
But this insignificant lump in the North Sea has no bargaining powers. Thinking the EU were going to give what Boris Farage claimed really do need to take a look at themselves. Was never going to happen.
Much like that £349m a day to the NHS that was promised ;).
But as I've said many times before, the British Public are notoriously stupid, and will vote in the direction their newspaper/news channel suggests.
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But this insignificant lump in the North Sea has no bargaining powers.
Err....we're the fifth largest economy in the world. Not an insignificant lump. ::)
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And apparently half the worlds population is desperate to live on this insignificant little lump. ::)
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But this insignificant lump in the North Sea has no bargaining powers.
Err....we're the fifth largest economy in the world. Not an insignificant lump. ::)
Post war, only since the 80/90s. Guess how we got there ;)
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And apparently half the worlds population is desperate to live on this insignificant little lump. ::)
But they seem to have suntans, are work shy, and want everything for nowt, basically jump on the gravy train, and fiddle what they can. Take take, no giveee back.
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And apparently half the worlds population is desperate to live on this insignificant little lump. ::)
Well, if we stopped paying them, that would soon stop. Or cull 'em.
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But this insignificant lump in the North Sea has no bargaining powers.
Err....we're the fifth largest economy in the world. Not an insignificant lump. ::)
Post war, only since the 80/90s. Guess how we got there ;)
Yes, but we're the fifth largest economy now – hence we have bargaining power.
Oh, and our position has nowt to do with the EU, though a fair bit to do with Europe. ;)
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Like this, you mean...
While the NSDAP performed better than it had in the elections of November 1932, it still won only 33% of the vote. By placing their rivals in jail and intimidating others not to take their seats, the Nazis went from a plurality to the majority. Just two weeks after election, the Enabling Act of 1933 effectively gave Hitler dictatorial power. Three more elections were held in Nazi Germany before the war. They all took the form of a one-question referendum, asking voters to approve a predetermined list of candidates composed exclusively of Nazis and nominally independent "guests" of the party. :P
Yes, and this is the very warning from history we should always remember. Our democracy is currently in danger, with radicalism a possible result. The greatest threat to democracy is from democracy itself, as in Nazi Germany after 30th January 1933 :(
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Currently, the greatest threat to our democracy comes from our elected representatives, who have no intention of implementing the very things they voted for and stood for election on, because the stupid people who elected them voted for the wrong thing when they were given a decision to make.
Which is why Boris is right to bypass them in the current circumstances.
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Currently, the greatest threat to our democracy comes from our elected representatives, who have no intention of implementing the very things they voted for and stood for election on, because the stupid people who elected them voted for the wrong thing when they were given a decision to make.
Which is why Boris is right to bypass them in the current circumstances.
Spot on, mon ami! :y
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Currently, the greatest threat to our democracy comes from our elected representatives, who have no intention of implementing the very things they voted for and stood for election on, because the stupid people who elected them voted for the wrong thing when they were given a decision to make.
Which is why Boris is right to bypass them in the current circumstances.
Well that is what I was getting at. It certainly won't be Hitler! ;D ;D ;)
Boris must succeed in what he is attempting to do, which I support, but failure will bring even more challenges to the table :(
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Any MP that signed off on article 50,then tried to stop Bexit which is basically what they were elected on, should be made to stand down and another by election held,
the problem is MP,s refusing to carry out what they voted for,
All credit to Boris for the sheer energy and sense of purpose he has given the country back!
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The tin pot dictator ( wee krankies words) has done it now.
If only the MPs had done their job properly including Theresa May we could have had a proper deal including free trade by now with no ridiculous backstop.
Popcorn time 🍿 🍿
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Mr varche I thought you were now a Spanish resident, so our policies shouldn't affect you.
Also parliament are acting against the will of the people, and in history this has caused massive unrest, which in modern society won't happen. All Boris is doing is what the people voted for to leave Europe, deal or no deal, and I hope he sorts it out.
Well you may be surprised to find I consider that expats living n Europe will be more greatly impacted than Brits living in Britain post Brexit at least in the short term.
Healthcare is a key issue. Many expats with ten weeks to go , do not know what s going to happen with their healthcare and may have to return to the UK. You don't have that uncertainty. I could give you other examples but I am afraid that the plight of “lucky beggars living in the sun drinking G and Ts” doesn't interest the average or even not so average Brit.
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Emigration is a free choice ;)
Choosing to move abroad should have been a decision made with the understanding that the status quo is always potentially subject to change...
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Quite right.
One key area emigrating expats often fail to take into account is the exchange rate. Quite a key thing for people with an income from their home country. I remember a pound getting you 1.5 euros. Now it isn't far from parity. So a pay cut of around 40%.
My issue is three years on and no one has a clue what is going to happen. With notice you can make plans. We all have been badly let down by our politicians. Sadly they are all immune from the fall out of their lack of action.
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That isn't strictly true ;)
Both governments have issued clear directions as to what naturalised citizens need to do in order to indefinitely remain legally.
The people who have issues with this are people who chose not to register where they chose to settle.
By choosing to become a fully legitimate Spanish resident, you don't automatically need to rescind your British citizenship, but some people insist on having their cake and eating it. Unfortunately at some point the cake will go stale...
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Going on a European holiday in November?
Fall ill, have an accident. Is your EHIC going to cover you?
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Going on a European holiday in November?
Fall ill, have an accident. Is your EHIC going to cover you?
I have travel insurance, so it's a moot point ;)
Incidentally planning on being in the Canaries for the first week of November... :y
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Apparently over a million people have already signed a petition to stop the proroguing of Parliament. ::)
This will be debated in Parliament after the Queens speech. :)
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I think the rule is it has to be "considered for debate". In other words, completely ignored. ::)
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Going on a European holiday in November?
Fall ill, have an accident. Is your EHIC going to cover you?
October so I'm fine, don't know about DG, best not try to use hollybob insurance, as there's probably a clause that states something about the EU, and the insurance will try not to pay out,, Can see watchdog and Angelle rippoff TV program coming,,, "My nightmare after Brexit" some large trailer trash woman who fell out of her fat buggy in bennydorm, trying to claim and been told can't because of Brexit...
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Suspending parliament? Do we have a big enough gallows or will we need to do the job piecemeal?Also the rope does it need to be genuine only or will cheap e-bay aftermarket do? :D ;D
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Going on a European holiday in November?
Fall ill, have an accident. Is your EHIC going to cover you?
October so I'm fine, don't know about DG, best not try to use hollybob insurance, as there's probably a clause that states something about the EU, and the insurance will try not to pay out,, Can see watchdog and Angelle rippoff TV program coming,,, "My nightmare after Brexit" some large trailer trash woman who fell out of her fat buggy in bennydorm, trying to claim and been told can't because of Brexit...
It's always best to have travel insurance anyway as EHIC dosn't cover repatriation costs if you become incapacitated through injury or illness. ;)
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Going on a European holiday in November?
Fall ill, have an accident. Is your EHIC going to cover you?
October so I'm fine, don't know about DG, best not try to use hollybob insurance, as there's probably a clause that states something about the EU, and the insurance will try not to pay out,, Can see watchdog and Angelle rippoff TV program coming,,, "My nightmare after Brexit" some large trailer trash woman who fell out of her fat buggy in bennydorm, trying to claim and been told can't because of Brexit...
It's always best to have travel insurance anyway as EHIC dosn't cover repatriation costs if you become incapacitated through injury or illness. ;)
Exactly, it will guarantee you a doctors appointment, but not necessarily the subsequent treatment. On the website and the card itself, it clearly states that EHIC is NOT an alternative to travel insurance ;)
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Apparently over a million people have already signed a petition to stop the proroguing of Parliament. ::)
This will be debated in Parliament after the Queens speech. :)
Saw quite a few tweets by Remainers explaining how to set up multiple email accounts to sign the petition. One guy boasted that he'd already signed 50 times. ::) >:(
Of course, I understand that it does not HAVE to be debated, merely considered for debate.
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Suspending parliament? Do we have a big enough gallows or will we need to do the job piecemeal?Also the rope does it need to be genuine only or will cheap e-bay aftermarket do? :D ;D
No!! :o :o
If it is addressed to TB it will not turn up! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)
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Apparently over a million people have already signed a petition to stop the proroguing of Parliament. ::)
This will be debated in Parliament after the Queens speech. :)
Saw quite a few tweets by Remainers explaining how to set up multiple email accounts to sign the petition. One guy boasted that he'd already signed 50 times. ::) >:(
Of course, I understand that it does not HAVE to be debated, merely considered for debate.
Is there a criminal offence for doing that? If not, there should be >:(
It does nothing but completely destroy the validity of the process. Unless that is the point :-\
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It was and is a meaningless Cameron gimmick to give people the illusion that they hold some degree of power and influence.
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It was and is a meaningless Cameron gimmick to give people the illusion that they hold some degree of power and influence.
Yes. That is what the "Government Petition" process does, nothing more, nothing less. Just makes individuals "feel good"! ::) ::) :D :D
Look at the latest Petition Report:
https://petition.parliament.uk/
Note the lack of Government response, let alone action which is virtually zero after years of this process. :)
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Here we go again. Parliament voted in favour of a referendum and stated that they would carry out the result of it. At this point, Parliament handed its decision making power in this matter to the people.
No, Your either mistaken or peddling fake news.
The Parliamentary briefing documents at the time of the referendum all stated that the referendum result would be advisory only. Last time someone peddled that lie untruth I posted the link to the document. It's here, on page 25 : https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf . This was published before the referendum, and formed the advice upon which the MP's voted to hold it.
Parliament did not hand "its decision making power in this matter to the people". It cannot, because it is and always has been sovereign.
Since then parliament has voted to invoke Art50 and passed a (non binding) motion stating it did not want a no deal exit. I think all the other motions have been defeated, and certainly the May deal has been rejected 3 times.
Most of the rest of the post involves ignoring hundreds of years of constitutional laws too. There may be some countries where the people are sovereign, but the UK ain't one of them.
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Here we go again. Parliament voted in favour of a referendum and stated that they would carry out the result of it. At this point, Parliament handed its decision making power in this matter to the people.
No, Your either mistaken or peddling fake news.
The Parliamentary briefing documents at the time of the referendum all stated that the referendum result would be advisory only. Last time someone peddled that lie untruth I posted the link to the document. It's here, on page 25 : https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf . This was published before the referendum, and formed the advice upon which the MP's voted to hold it.
Parliament did not hand "its decision making power in this matter to the people". It cannot, because it is and always has been sovereign.
Since then parliament has voted to invoke Art50 and passed a (non binding) motion stating it did not want a no deal exit. I think all the other motions have been defeated, and certainly the May deal has been rejected 3 times.
Most of the rest of the post involves ignoring hundreds of years of constitutional laws too. There may be some countries where the people are sovereign, but the UK ain't one of them.
^^ This.
Its also worth noting that the current parliament isn't the one that called the referendum, and its a central tenet of our constitution that no parliament can bind its successors. So even if you consider the referendum result to be binding (it wasn't as posted above), there is no way that the current government could be compelled to act on it.
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Here we go again. Parliament voted in favour of a referendum and stated that they would carry out the result of it. At this point, Parliament handed its decision making power in this matter to the people.
No, Your either mistaken or peddling fake news.
The Parliamentary briefing documents at the time of the referendum all stated that the referendum result would be advisory only. Last time someone peddled that lie untruth I posted the link to the document. It's here, on page 25 : https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf . This was published before the referendum, and formed the advice upon which the MP's voted to hold it.
Parliament did not hand "its decision making power in this matter to the people". It cannot, because it is and always has been sovereign.
Since then parliament has voted to invoke Art50 and passed a (non binding) motion stating it did not want a no deal exit. I think all the other motions have been defeated, and certainly the May deal has been rejected 3 times.
Most of the rest of the post involves ignoring hundreds of years of constitutional laws too. There may be some countries where the people are sovereign, but the UK ain't one of them.
The referendum paper clearly stated "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide."
Thus it removed any advisory status.
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Here we go again. Parliament voted in favour of a referendum and stated that they would carry out the result of it. At this point, Parliament handed its decision making power in this matter to the people.
No, Your either mistaken or peddling fake news.
The Parliamentary briefing documents at the time of the referendum all stated that the referendum result would be advisory only. Last time someone peddled that lie untruth I posted the link to the document. It's here, on page 25 : https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf . This was published before the referendum, and formed the advice upon which the MP's voted to hold it.
Parliament did not hand "its decision making power in this matter to the people". It cannot, because it is and always has been sovereign.
Since then parliament has voted to invoke Art50 and passed a (non binding) motion stating it did not want a no deal exit. I think all the other motions have been defeated, and certainly the May deal has been rejected 3 times.
Most of the rest of the post involves ignoring hundreds of years of constitutional laws too. There may be some countries where the people are sovereign, but the UK ain't one of them.
The referendum paper clearly stated "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide."
Thus it removed any advisory status.
No. The referendum paper cannot 'trump' the law/constitution. The referendum was clearly non binding.
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The referendum paper clearly stated "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide."
Thus it removed any advisory status.
As with almost everything in life, and politics in particular, just saying it doesn't make it true.
eg.
There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal.
Boris Johnson 2017
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Also, unlike the USA written version, the British Constitution can be easily changed by Acts of Parliament, with thousands of 'revisions' over the centuries. Maybe the next Law to be enacted should be to reform Parliament, getting rid of the House of Lords, reducing the number of MP's, and charging them with the defined legal responsibility to carry out the wishes of the majority of the electorate, with it becoming a criminal offence to not lodge your vote during National Elections and Referendums.
Radical? Yes, too true, and this country needs the changes now! ;)
Having a written constitution has plusses and minuses. This shows the difference between our (UK) system of government and the US system.
In the UK, Parliament is sovereign. Parliament alone can institute any law, revoke any law, and modify any law in any way it wants by a simple majority. HMG can introduce an act to say the moon is made of cheese, and inhabited solely by Unicorns and Magic Money trees. If they can get a simple majority of 50%+1 of MP's to vote for it then from that point on, within the juristiction of the UK, then legally the moon IS made of cheese, and populated by mythical beasts and flora/fauna.
In the US, Congress/Senate are NOT 'sovereign' by simple majority. They cannot legally modify or revoke the constitution on their own. The constitution is 'above' the law (in UK terms), and requires a 2/3rds majority in congress, and a 3/4 majority of the individual states for any amendment to be passed. https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution.
There have only been 27 amendments to the constitution since it's adoption in the late 1790's. The last one was adopted in 1992, but took 200 years to come into effect when Missouri, Michigan, New Jersey and Illinois finally ratified it in 1992. https://kids.laws.com/27th-amendment. The previous amendment (the 26th) took 100 days to be ratified when lowering the voting age to 18.
There appear to be 6 outstanding amendments which still haven't been ratified - the oldest dating from 1789. I CBA to look them all up, but if some groups of flat-earthers in the 1790's decided the moon is made of cheese, and inhabited solely by Unicorns and Magic Money, and all it needs is one more state to ratify it then Neil Armstrong/Buzz Aldrin might be in trouble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... amendments
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Also, unlike the USA written version, the British Constitution can be easily changed by Acts of Parliament, with thousands of 'revisions' over the centuries. Maybe the next Law to be enacted should be to reform Parliament, getting rid of the House of Lords, reducing the number of MP's, and charging them with the defined legal responsibility to carry out the wishes of the majority of the electorate, with it becoming a criminal offence to not lodge your vote during National Elections and Referendums.
Radical? Yes, too true, and this country needs the changes now! ;)
Having a written constitution has plusses and minuses. This shows the difference between our (UK) system of government and the US system.
In the UK, Parliament is sovereign. Parliament alone can institute any law, revoke any law, and modify any law in any way it wants by a simple majority. HMG can introduce an act to say the moon is made of cheese, and inhabited solely by Unicorns and Magic Money trees. If they can get a simple majority of 50%+1 of MP's to vote for it then from that point on, within the juristiction of the UK, then legally the moon IS made of cheese, and populated by mythical beasts and flora/fauna.
In the US, Congress/Senate are NOT 'sovereign' by simple majority. They cannot legally modify or revoke the constitution on their own. The constitution is 'above' the law (in UK terms), and requires a 2/3rds majority in congress, and a 3/4 majority of the individual states for any amendment to be passed. https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution.
There have only been 27 amendments to the constitution since it's adoption in the late 1790's. The last one was adopted in 1992, but took 200 years to come into effect when Missouri, Michigan, New Jersey and Illinois finally ratified it in 1992. https://kids.laws.com/27th-amendment. The previous amendment (the 26th) took 100 days to be ratified when lowering the voting age to 18.
There appear to be 6 outstanding amendments which still haven't been ratified - the oldest dating from 1789. I CBA to look them all up, but if some groups of flat-earthers in the 1790's decided the moon is made of cheese, and inhabited solely by Unicorns and Magic Money, and all it needs is one more state to ratify it then Neil Armstrong/Buzz Aldrin might be in trouble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... amendments
That is why changing the Second Amendment, the Right To Bear Arms, is so hard to do ;
Their laws are set in concrete! :)
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Here we go again. Parliament voted in favour of a referendum and stated that they would carry out the result of it. At this point, Parliament handed its decision making power in this matter to the people.
No, Your either mistaken or peddling fake news.
The Parliamentary briefing documents at the time of the referendum all stated that the referendum result would be advisory only. Last time someone peddled that lie untruth I posted the link to the document. It's here, on page 25 : https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf . This was published before the referendum, and formed the advice upon which the MP's voted to hold it.
Parliament did not hand "its decision making power in this matter to the people". It cannot, because it is and always has been sovereign.
Since then parliament has voted to invoke Art50 and passed a (non binding) motion stating it did not want a no deal exit. I think all the other motions have been defeated, and certainly the May deal has been rejected 3 times.
Most of the rest of the post involves ignoring hundreds of years of constitutional laws too. There may be some countries where the people are sovereign, but the UK ain't one of them.
Your talking at cross purposes again. The Prime minister of the day (along with many others in parliament, including his replacement), stated in Parliament and on TV screens, that they would abide by the result of the referendum. Seemples.
By invoking article 50, Parliament gave the EU notice that the UK was leaving the EU. Not leaving if they had a deal that could pass through the commons or any other terms & conditions. Just leaving.
They now act as though they didn't know what they were voting for, while trying to convince us that we didn't know what we were voting for.
Technically and legally, you may be correct, but the politicians made a promise / pact with the electorate that they would enact their decision, fully expecting a remain result. The fact that they legally cant give sovereignty to the people as and when they choose is a mere technicality on this issue.
It was the fact that the people gave the wrong answer which has shown many of them up to be the liars and charlatans that they are.
Hopefully, after October 31st, none of this will matter any more. :)
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Here we go again. Parliament voted in favour of a referendum and stated that they would carry out the result of it. At this point, Parliament handed its decision making power in this matter to the people.
No, Your either mistaken or peddling fake news.
The Parliamentary briefing documents at the time of the referendum all stated that the referendum result would be advisory only. Last time someone peddled that lie untruth I posted the link to the document. It's here, on page 25 : https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf . This was published before the referendum, and formed the advice upon which the MP's voted to hold it.
Parliament did not hand "its decision making power in this matter to the people". It cannot, because it is and always has been sovereign.
Since then parliament has voted to invoke Art50 and passed a (non binding) motion stating it did not want a no deal exit. I think all the other motions have been defeated, and certainly the May deal has been rejected 3 times.
Most of the rest of the post involves ignoring hundreds of years of constitutional laws too. There may be some countries where the people are sovereign, but the UK ain't one of them.
Your talking at cross purposes again. The Prime minister of the day (along with many others in parliament, including his replacement), stated in Parliament and on TV screens, that they would abide by the result of the referendum. Seemples.
Again, No. The Prime minister of the day CANNOT bind that parliament, or any future parliament. The Prime minister isn't sovereign. Parliament is Sovereign. Once you understand that simple point of our constitution then you realise that most of the things Ministers say are simply intentions - not promises.
By invoking article 50, Parliament gave the EU notice that the UK was leaving the EU. Not leaving if they had a deal that could pass through the commons or any other terms & conditions. Just leaving.
And again No. Invoking Art50 informs the EU of a member countries intention to leave the EU, and then details how the withdrawl agreement will/should work. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf
The EU court have agreed the intention is revocable, and since under the UK constitution no current parliament can bind a future parliament, a future parliament can decide to do whatever it wants, if it can get enough MP's to agree. And future parliament does NOT mean after a general election - a new parliament is formed after every Queens speech.
They now act as though they didn't know what they were voting for, while trying to convince us that we didn't know what we were voting for.
Technically and legally, you may be correct, but the politicians made a promise / pact with the electorate that they would enact their decision, fully expecting a remain result. The fact that they legally cant give sovereignty to the people as and when they choose is a mere technicality on this issue.
It was the fact that the people gave the wrong answer which has shown many of them up to be the liars and charlatans that they are.
Hopefully, after October 31st, none of this will matter any more. :)
Legally is all that matters under our constitution. Politicians (of all flavours) lie. Get used to it.
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The overriding thing to me is that the EU won,t give the UK any form of a reasonable deal, is because their modus operandii is if we don,t vote the way they want they hope we will keep trying until we crawl into line. Sorry if this is (slightly) off topic but that,s how i see it. Let,s get out on Halloween and make our way in the world. Same as we did before Heath and his cronies took us in. Getting totally pissed off with the whole farce. Brian Rix, where are you. :o
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The overriding thing to me is that the EU won,t give the UK any form of a reasonable deal, is because their modus operandii is if we don,t vote the way they want they hope we will keep trying until we crawl into line. Sorry if this is (slightly) off topic but that,s how i see it. Let,s get out on Halloween and make our way in the world. Same as we did before Heath and his cronies took us in. Getting totally pissed off with the whole farce. Brian Rix, where are you. :o
Showing your age there Ronny..... ;)
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But this insignificant lump in the North Sea has no bargaining powers.
Err....we're the fifth largest economy in the world. Not an insignificant lump. ::)
Post war, only since the 80/90s. Guess how we got there ;)
Yes, but we're the fifth largest economy now – hence we have bargaining power.
Oh, and our position has nowt to do with the EU, though a fair bit to do with Europe. ;)
No, we have no bargaining, because the EU know we are nothing without Europe. They fully understand that they hold all the aces, and at any negotiation means the UK has nothing to bargain with. And that's why there is no deal to be had, despite what Boris Farage lied promised during the referendum. Much like the lie promise of all that money to plough into the NHS, which they have already gone way back on ;)
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The overriding thing to me is that the EU won,t give the UK any form of a reasonable deal, is because their modus operandii is if we don,t vote the way they want they hope we will keep trying until we crawl into line. Sorry if this is (slightly) off topic but that,s how i see it. Let,s get out on Halloween and make our way in the world. Same as we did before Heath and his cronies took us in. Getting totally pissed off with the whole farce. Brian Rix, where are you. :o
Showing your age there Ronny..... ;)
Sure am M,Lord :'( ;D
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Another important part of our constitution is the presidents & procedures on how Parliament works. I recently bought myself a slightly out of date 2nd hand book on this as the latest versions are expensive.
As mentioned earlier our unwritten constitution can updated by simple Commons majorities, this is a blessing as it allows sensible changes to be made and also a potential danger & possible curse if you've got a parliament, say lead by a terrorist loving Marxist, that by a simple majority can abolishing our democracy & turn us into a one party state. :(
What has become clear with Brexit is where our parliament has been so enfeebled & undermined here & likewise in all EU states that most of the current crop of MPs are quite incapable of anything beyond virtual signaling, gesture, identity politics so most can't run the country or make decisions which means they can't do the job they are elected for or earn their salaries and 'creative' monthly expenses.
Once parliament were progued for the summer break Dominic Cummings pointed out that it was now too late to stop Brexit. If Boris lost a vote of no confidence (by no means certain) he then has 14 days to either resign or to try & get a majority vote to continue or call a general election. Realistically, the earliest this vote could be held is early November once we have left the EU on WTO terms. The only way remain MPs can now stop Brexit is by revoking Article 50 which would finish the careers of most of the politicians who went down that route. What has changed in the polls since Boris became PM is the Conservative polling, where they are the lead party again with 30%+ & the collapse of Labour where they are hovering around 20%. I suspect what will really hit Labour hard will be the Northern vote, who will never vote Tory because of the miners strike but will the Brexit party where they were the most dominate Leave areas in the UK.
Although parliament is sovereign the whole strength of democracy is that we get to hire & fire them every 5 years through the ballot box & this has a considerable moderating effect on what governments & MPs do where they want to be reelected again. Major's ERM fiasco, Maastricht Treaty shenanigans & general incompetence lead to their 1997 ballot box hammering & to 13 years & an incompetent PM with Gordon 'no more boom or bust' McRuin before the Tories got a sniff of power in 2010 with a minority government & coalition.
I suspect the next few weeks are going to be interesting but master strategist Dominic Commings & Boris have certainly taken the initiative, made the right strategic calls so far & put remain MPs of their back foot & if they keep doing this I think the odds will be on Boris' side in getting this over the line.
One this is certain is that UK politics will never be the same again & I live in hope that this if for the better.
Where it has been mentioned the our parliament is sovereign this is not strictly true until we leave the EU as EU law & ECJ rulings currently take precedence over UK law until we leave & have repealed the 1986 Single European Act.
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Ultimately,Parliamentary sovereignty, constitutional rules or traditions, or any other machinery of government comes second to the people, because ultimately, those who rule and govern can only do so with the consent and compliance of the people.
If in doubt ask the French, the Russians or the peoples of the former USSR.
Once those who rule seriously ignore that fact, they are on borrowed time. I believe our current rulers need to be strongly reminded of this, and it could happen soon, if they use the rules and legalities to break their promises to the people in a such a very serious manner.
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Ultimately,Parliamentary sovereignty, constitutional rules or traditions, or any other machinery of government comes second to the people, because ultimately, those who rule and govern can only do so with the consent and compliance of the people.
If in doubt ask the French, the Russians or the peoples of the former USSR.
Once those who rule seriously ignore that fact, they are on borrowed time. I believe our current rulers need to be strongly reminded of this, and it could happen soon, if they use the rules and legalities to break their promises to the people in a such a very serious manner.
Agreed :y
This is what I said in my earlier post:
However, all the MP's of Parliament and the Government take a huge risk politically, and career wise, if they do ignore the will of the people over a major national issue - such as BREXIT. Just listen to what is being said on the streets by "the people" about the whole BREXIT affair, and now with these latest developments. The people, you and me, along with those normally lacking any interest in this subject, have had enough of the politicians and what is seen by them as 'anti-democratic' actions. What we will do remains of course to be seen, and talk of "a revolution" is probably unrealistic as we are British and do not go in for such things! But, come any future General Election the fragmentation of political parties and British politics will be severe. The complete lack of trust now is so obvious Boris MAY rescue the Conservatives if he brings BREXIT home, but if not it will be curtains, but not only for him but Corbyn and Labour as well.
They will then know, along with many of their colleagues, what it means to take no notice of the electorate and destroy the trust of the people.
Now, as said I think a revolution of the French variety can be ruled out, but the people can revolt and form their own political movements, like the Chartists of 1838-48, to aggressively push for full democratic change. Just because there is a Parliament who believe they can push the public around and ignore us, does not mean "the people" cannot go for a complete overthrow of the system. A certain King thought he could do what he liked, but a Civil War proved otherwise. The politicians of today should not take for granted they can do what they like; the people can democractically prove them wrong all so easily! ;)
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Ultimately,Parliamentary sovereignty, constitutional rules or traditions, or any other machinery of government comes second to the people, because ultimately, those who rule and govern can only do so with the consent and compliance of the people.
If in doubt ask the French, the Russians or the peoples of the former USSR.
Once those who rule seriously ignore that fact, they are on borrowed time. I believe our current rulers need to be strongly reminded of this, and it could happen soon, if they use the rules and legalities to break their promises to the people in a such a very serious manner.
Couldn't agree more! :y
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The referendum and Brexit have been, are and will be for the foreseeable future, a disaster.
Maybe the utter incompetence of our leaders and governments over the last thirty years will force the issue, and bring about the change in our system of government that is now obviously overdue. We should take a long, hard, realistic and honest look at ourselves in the process. The monarchy is unlikely to survive the next king without some wide ranging changes too.
Perhaps we will come up with some scheme that is fit for purpose, although it's difficult to be optimistic about it.
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Perhaps it would have been better to stay in the EU with a puppet government in place in London with the real decisions being made by some not elected by us experts like Tusk and Juncker
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When is someone going to have the guts to expel Ken Clarke from the Tory party. His love for all things EU has blinded him to all reason.
Years ago he said he looked forward to the day when Westminster was nothing more than a council chamber.
Today he said he would vote against his own Government, and vote for installing Corbyn in Number 10, if Corbyn was the candidate put up to lead a national unity Govt.
He would actually vote for the man who supported the people who attempted to murder the whole Tory Govt. in the 80,s ! :o > as long as it means there would be a chance of keeping us in his beloved EU >:(
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Ultimately,Parliamentary sovereignty, constitutional rules or traditions, or any other machinery of government comes second to the people, because ultimately, those who rule and govern can only do so with the consent and compliance of the people.
If in doubt ask the French, the Russians or the peoples of the former USSR.
Once those who rule seriously ignore that fact, they are on borrowed time. I believe our current rulers need to be strongly reminded of this, and it could happen soon, if they use the rules and legalities to break their promises to the people in a such a very serious manner.
LC0112G is probably correct when it comes to 'points of law' but I think that Francophile Albs :) is correct to look at the bigger picture.
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If it all goes tits up a civil war will sort it out.........eventually.
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When is someone going to have the guts to expel Ken Clarke from the Tory party. His love for all things EU has blinded him to all reason.
Years ago he said he looked forward to the day when Westminster was nothing more than a council chamber.
Today he said he would vote against his own Government, and vote for installing Corbyn in Number 10, if Corbyn was the candidate put up to lead a national unity Govt.
He would actually vote for the man who supported the people who attempted to murder the whole Tory Govt. in the 80,s ! :o > as long as it means there would be a chance of keeping us in his beloved EU >:(
Now also the "Grey Man", John Major you can add to the list! :o :o :o :o
This morning I have heard he has turned on Boris, his plans, and supported Corbyn in his efforts to destroy the Government!! ::) ::) >:( >:(
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If it all goes tits up a civil war will sort it out.........eventually.
Ah, so someone read my post Opti!! :-* :-* :-* :D :D :y
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If it all goes tits up a civil war will sort it out.........eventually.
Ah, so someone read my post Opti!! :-* :-* :-* :D :D :y
Lizzie....as a small child we had a cat called Cromwell, although it was much later before I became aware of the significance. :y :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*Cromwell is many years dead now, much like his namesake. :y :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Seeing as the tories have always been split, about 50:50 - much like the public - and are absolutely polarised in their view - again like the public - I would imagine about 50% of tories will rebel against Boris' shinnanigans. Well, those with the balls. The usual spinless winkers will carry on sucking. Again, much like the public.
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Now also the "Grey Man", John Major you can add to the list! :o :o :o :o
Since he prorogued Parliament for longer than Boris intends, it shows him up to be a complete hyprocrite. >:( >:(
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If it all goes tits up a civil war will sort it out.........eventually.
Ah, so someone read my post Opti!! :-* :-* :-* :D :D :y
Lizzie....as a small child we had a cat called Cromwell, although it was much later before I became aware of the significance. :y :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*Cromwell is many years dead now, much like his namesake. :y :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Named after Thomas or Oliver? ???
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I would imagine about 50% of tories will rebel against Boris' shinnanigans. Well, those with the balls. The usual spinless winkers will carry on sucking.
The ones with balls will back Boris and Brexit. It's the spineless Remaintards that are the problem. ;)
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I would imagine about 50% of tories will rebel against Boris' shinnanigans. Well, those with the balls. The usual spinless winkers will carry on sucking.
The ones with balls will back Boris and Brexit. It's the spineless Remaintards that are the problem. ;)
Now you know you've got that round wrong.
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I would imagine about 50% of tories will rebel against Boris' shinnanigans. Well, those with the balls. The usual spinless winkers will carry on sucking.
The ones with balls will back Boris and Brexit. It's the spineless Remaintards that are the problem. ;)
Now you know you've got that round wrong.
No he hasn't. Democracy depends on everybody no matter how they voted accepting the outcome of a vote. ::)
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Exactly, and Im pretty sure TB agrees with that, so I presume he is winding us up. ;)
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I would imagine about 50% of tories will rebel against Boris' shinnanigans. Well, those with the balls. The usual spinless winkers will carry on sucking.
The ones with balls will back Boris and Brexit. It's the spineless Remaintards that are the problem. ;)
Now you know you've got that round wrong.
No he hasn't. Democracy depends on everybody no matter how they voted accepting the outcome of a vote. ::)
Although its a really dumbass thing to do, I agree we must leave, because that is democracy. "We" made that decision (for a variety of reasons), so we all must suffer it.
My point being those with balls will stand up against their leaders for the sake of their beliefs, and the knob jockeys will suck up to their leaders irrespective of their personal beliefs.
So those that stand up against the government are the ones with balls ;)
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I would imagine about 50% of tories will rebel against Boris' shinnanigans. Well, those with the balls. The usual spinless winkers will carry on sucking.
The ones with balls will back Boris and Brexit. It's the spineless Remaintards that are the problem. ;)
Now you know you've got that round wrong.
No he hasn't. Democracy depends on everybody no matter how they voted accepting the outcome of a vote. ::)
Although its a really dumbass thing to do, I agree we must leave, because that is democracy. "We" made that decision (for a variety of reasons), so we all must suffer it.
My point being those with balls will stand up against their leaders for the sake of their beliefs, and the knob jockeys will suck up to their leaders irrespective of their personal beliefs.
So those that stand up against the government are the ones with balls ;)
Again you are wrong. They don't want change, they are afraid of change and they don't want the responsibility that comes with the control that the majority wanted them to have. ::)
They would rather we get slowly but surely sucked into the Peoples Republic of Europe, so all the major decisions are made by the unelected eurocrats and they can continue to slumber on the green and red benches, rubber stamping everything from Brussels, while claiming their invented expenses and voting for huge pay rises every year! :P
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If it all goes tits up a civil war will sort it out.........eventually.
Ah, so someone read my post Opti!! :-* :-* :-* :D :D :y
Lizzie....as a small child we had a cat called Cromwell, although it was much later before I became aware of the significance. :y :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*Cromwell is many years dead now, much like his namesake. :y :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Named after Thomas or Oliver? ???
Ah yes, Oilver Cromwell, the one who acted "for the people" and got rid of a troublesome, absolute monarch, then after his death was dug up, was tried for treason (with others already dead!), hung at Tibury, then had is head cut off to be displayed on a twenty foot pike at Westminister Hall! :o :o
Let that be a reminder to anyone who thinks they are acting in the interests of the people, and then has the same people turn against them, even after death!
Any suggestions - list please........! ;D ;D ;)
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, Oilver Cromwell, the one who acted "for the people" and got rid of a troublesome, absolute monarch, then after his death was dug up, was tried for treason (with others already dead!), hung at Tibury, then had is head cut off to be displayed on a twenty foot pike at Westminister Hall! :o :o
Tyburn Lizzie. ;)
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, Oilver Cromwell, the one who acted "for the people" and got rid of a troublesome, absolute monarch, then after his death was dug up, was tried for treason (with others already dead!), hung at Tibury, then had is head cut off to be displayed on a twenty foot pike at Westminister Hall! :o :o
Tyburn Lizzie. ;)
Thanks!! :y
Damn, I meant to say that; getting older...I do not know why I typed Tilbury! Maybe I was sub consciously thinking of the great day of 9th August 1588 and my namesake and heroine, Queen Elizabeth's stirring speech to the troops as The Amada, or rather the troops on the other side of the water, was still a threat.
What a great day to be English! 8) 8) :D ;)
PS I bet our beloved Queen of those days would deal with the Brexit of today. She would have had the French and Spanish diplomats dancing at her feet..... 8) 8) :-*
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A very good article on why parliament is the problem & why they have let us all down over Brexit. This is not without president, where it was apparently like this in a 1930's parliament when Churchill said: "decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent". :o
What shouldn't be forgotten is that for political gain and the threat of UKIP, Cameron called the EURef to decide the EU question once and for for this generation and we will implement whatever you decide. We now know that 'whatever you decide' was providing the majority voted remain, which silly us didn't get so the 17.4m majority voted the wrong way. :y
They also voted through the withdrawal legislation & triggered article 50 with about 350 MPs supporting it. We have sadly reached this inpass through May's deception & duplicy where she deliberately negotiated her surrender treaty to lock us into the EU as a vassal state & in the EU's own words to make us their first colony. The end result for that would have been our complete subjugation & plunder of our nation's wealth as this is what imperial powers do, or there is no point in having colonies. What it does show is not only does May hate the Tories as her 'nasty party' but she also hates and has complete contempt for every UK citizen. IMV May is the worst woman in UK's history to wield power since Bloody Mary Queen of Scots.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal)
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I see nothing in that article about Theresa May, so why the venom?
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When history is written, probably not in our lifetime, we will find out what negotatiating strategy IF any TM had at the table.
We were sold down the river.
What magic can Boris conjure up in the remainder of Merkels 30 days?
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John Roy Major? what an adulterous, condescending,hypocritical, coward of a person. And that’s his good points fu((ing clown!!
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A very good article on why parliament is the problem & why they have let us all down over Brexit. This is not without president, where it was apparently like this in a 1930's parliament when Churchill said: "decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent". :o
What shouldn't be forgotten is that for political gain and the threat of UKIP, Cameron called the EURef to decide the EU question once and for for this generation and we will implement whatever you decide. We now know that 'whatever you decide' was providing the majority voted remain, which silly us didn't get so the 17.4m majority voted the wrong way. :y
They also voted through the withdrawal legislation & triggered article 50 with about 350 MPs supporting it. We have sadly reached this inpass through May's deception & duplicy where she deliberately negotiated her surrender treaty to lock us into the EU as a vassal state & in the EU's own words to make us their first colony. The end result for that would have been our complete subjugation & plunder of our nation's wealth as this is what imperial powers do, or there is no point in having colonies. What it does show is not only does May hate the Tories as her 'nasty party' but she also hates and has complete contempt for every UK citizen. IMV May is the worst woman in UK's history to wield power since Bloody Mary Queen of Scots.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal)
AFAIK we've never had a "President" ..... and Churchill certainly wasn't one ..... :)
perhaps you mean "precedent" ???
:)
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A very good article on why parliament is the problem & why they have let us all down over Brexit. This is not without president, where it was apparently like this in a 1930's parliament when Churchill said: "decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent". :o
What shouldn't be forgotten is that for political gain and the threat of UKIP, Cameron called the EURef to decide the EU question once and for for this generation and we will implement whatever you decide. We now know that 'whatever you decide' was providing the majority voted remain, which silly us didn't get so the 17.4m majority voted the wrong way. :y
They also voted through the withdrawal legislation & triggered article 50 with about 350 MPs supporting it. We have sadly reached this inpass through May's deception & duplicy where she deliberately negotiated her surrender treaty to lock us into the EU as a vassal state & in the EU's own words to make us their first colony. The end result for that would have been our complete subjugation & plunder of our nation's wealth as this is what imperial powers do, or there is no point in having colonies. What it does show is not only does May hate the Tories as her 'nasty party' but she also hates and has complete contempt for every UK citizen. IMV May is the worst woman in UK's history to wield power since Bloody Mary Queen of Scots.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal)
AFAIK we've never had a "President" ..... and Churchill certainly wasn't one ..... :)
perhaps you mean "precedent" ???
:)
Keep up at the back ;D
We have had a number for example President Tusk. Part of the problem is we the peeps don't get to elect these presidents.
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A very good article on why parliament is the problem & why they have let us all down over Brexit. This is not without president, where it was apparently like this in a 1930's parliament when Churchill said: "decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent". :o
What shouldn't be forgotten is that for political gain and the threat of UKIP, Cameron called the EURef to decide the EU question once and for for this generation and we will implement whatever you decide. We now know that 'whatever you decide' was providing the majority voted remain, which silly us didn't get so the 17.4m majority voted the wrong way. :y
They also voted through the withdrawal legislation & triggered article 50 with about 350 MPs supporting it. We have sadly reached this inpass through May's deception & duplicy where she deliberately negotiated her surrender treaty to lock us into the EU as a vassal state & in the EU's own words to make us their first colony. The end result for that would have been our complete subjugation & plunder of our nation's wealth as this is what imperial powers do, or there is no point in having colonies. What it does show is not only does May hate the Tories as her 'nasty party' but she also hates and has complete contempt for every UK citizen. IMV May is the worst woman in UK's history to wield power since Bloody Mary Queen of Scots.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal)
AFAIK we've never had a "President" ..... and Churchill certainly wasn't one ..... :)
perhaps you mean "precedent" ???
:)
Keep up at the back ;D
We have had a number for example President Tusk. Part of the problem is we the peeps don't get to elect these presidents.
Pretty sure that Tusk is a former PM of Poland. He doesn't seem as deranged as 'Drunkard'.., ;)
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A very good article on why parliament is the problem & why they have let us all down over Brexit. This is not without president, where it was apparently like this in a 1930's parliament when Churchill said: "decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent". :o
What shouldn't be forgotten is that for political gain and the threat of UKIP, Cameron called the EURef to decide the EU question once and for for this generation and we will implement whatever you decide. We now know that 'whatever you decide' was providing the majority voted remain, which silly us didn't get so the 17.4m majority voted the wrong way. :y
They also voted through the withdrawal legislation & triggered article 50 with about 350 MPs supporting it. We have sadly reached this inpass through May's deception & duplicy where she deliberately negotiated her surrender treaty to lock us into the EU as a vassal state & in the EU's own words to make us their first colony. The end result for that would have been our complete subjugation & plunder of our nation's wealth as this is what imperial powers do, or there is no point in having colonies. What it does show is not only does May hate the Tories as her 'nasty party' but she also hates and has complete contempt for every UK citizen. IMV May is the worst woman in UK's history to wield power since Bloody Mary Queen of Scots.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/parliament-brexit-prorogue-mps-alternative-no-deal)
There you go again Rod, so busy attacking what you have called "office junior May", that you get the history,........and probably a lot more......completely wrong!
Mary Queen of Scots never wielded any power over us English, as the one with the very real, great supreme power was my beloved Queen Elizabeth 1, and she made sure, via the powerful William Cecil, 1ˢᵗ Baron Burghley, Chief Advisor and twice Secretary of State and Lord High Treasurer, and instigator of what we now know as Military Intelligence, that Mary did not live to do much at all apart from cause trouble, try to stir up the Catholics against Elizabeth, which she failed to do, and die at the block!
It was Queen Mary, Bloody Mary, the infamous daughter of King Edward VIII, who came to the throne after King Edward, his only, weak and feeble son, had died after just 6 years in 1553, who was far worse than Mrs May could ever be. She had executed the rightful heirs to the throne, the Protestant Lady Jane Gray and her husband Lord Dudley, and then proceeded to oppress the English Protestant community, with her being responsible for the murder of about 300 Protestant men, women, AND children by burning at the stake! Hence her dubious nickname, and thank God the other daughter of Henry VIII, Elizabeth, came to the throne in 1558 after Mary's short rein.
Although protestant Elizabeth had encouraged the persecution, and execution of Roman Catholics who blatantly flouted her laws, she is regarded as nowhere as evil as Mary, and to class Mrs May to be the "worst women in UK's history to wield power since Bloody Mary Queen of Scots" really does show your ignorance and how much venom you often spout in your highly emotive, political, posts!! >:(
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I think you are getting mixed up with your historical figures Lizzie. ::)
Edward VIII became King in 1936 and abdicated shortly after to marry the American divorcee Mrs Simpson. ;)
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I think you are getting mixed up with your historical figures Lizzie. ::)
Edward VIII became King in 1936 and abdicated shortly after to marry the American divorcee Mrs Simpson. ;)
Mrs Simpson was skinny and titless. What he saw in her I'll never know.
Must have been like sleeping with a bag of coal. :)
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He never said she wielded power over us. Just that she wielded power, was useless, and was from the UK. Or at least as we know it now.
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I think you are getting mixed up with your historical figures Lizzie. ::)
Edward VIII became King in 1936 and abdicated shortly after to marry the American divorcee Mrs Simpson. ;)
He did ;D ;D ;D ;)
I was so busy thinking of his son, Edward, that at that point, not after, did not type the correct Henry VIII ::) ::) :D :D ;) I'm getting worse with age....thank God I no longer have to sit exams!! ::) ::) :-[ :-[ :-[ THat would cause a very low percentage mark, so a fail!
Otherwise you can never confuse the two!! Henry VIII was a strong, absolute, monarch. Edward was a feeble excuse of a man, who failed to honour his responsibilities, and would have been a useless King anyway. He was a disgrace to his family, the people and the Country >:(
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He never said she wielded power over us. Just that she wielded power, was useless, and was from the UK. Or at least as we know it now.
Splitting hairs! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)
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Nope, just pointing out that you had misread the content of the post.
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I'm getting worse with age....
It's OK Lizzie we understand. :y
It's nice having a few couple of G&T's on a sunny Saturday afternoon! :P ;D :-*
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I'm getting worse with age....
It's OK Lizzie we understand. :y
It's nice having a few couple of G&T's on a sunny Saturday afternoon! :P ;D :-*
.......along with a puff or two on the old wacky baccy. :)
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Nope, just pointing out that you had misread the content of the post.
He said : May is the worst woman in UK's history to wield power since Bloody Mary Queen of Scots
What do you think then that is meant to mean? That she had power over Joe Bloggs down the road? If he did not mean us (the UK), in the context of her being our Prime Minister, what was he implying then? Especially when I take into account all his other posts about Mrs May ::) ::) ;)
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I'm getting worse with age....
It's OK Lizzie we understand. :y
It's nice having a few couple of G&T's on a sunny Saturday afternoon! :P ;D :-*
I wish! ::) ;D ;D ;)
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I'm getting worse with age....
It's OK Lizzie we understand. :y
It's nice having a few couple of G&T's on a sunny Saturday afternoon! :P ;D :-*
.......along with a puff or two on the old wacky baccy. :)
Now that would be pushing my brain where I do not want it to go! :o :o ;D ;)