Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STEMO on 24 September 2019, 10:45:26
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According to the Supreme Court, it was/is unlawful. It's not going well for Boris.
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Great, instead of one idiot trying to sort this mess out, we're back to 630 or so idiots trying to screw each other over >:(
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I'm sure it will all be sorted out over a nice cup of tea. ;D
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I have said repeatedly that I want to sse Boris in a different light; I want him to prove me wrong; I want him to make me proud to be a Conservative again. But he keeps on living up to my image of Boris; the guffer, the fool, the bluffer, the over-inflated ego (although perhaps that goes with the territory of all politicians!! ::) ::)) and the one who can get things so terribly wrong all too many times.
So now he has committed an even bigger guff than he ever has before. He has pushed his amateurish luck too far, and is to be seen by the whole World to be an incompetent chancer. >:( >:(
He has torn the Conservative Party to shreds, with the constant bluff that he is going to sort "B" out - I really hope he can by 31st October - but he is not convincing me at all, and now this judgement..................................oh bloody hell!!! >:( >:( >:(
Thank God Corbyn is such an incapable, nasty, Marxist idiot. But in general, this is not good for our democracy! >:( >:(
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I really can't wait to see his spluttering, mumbling statement, that's if he doesn't resign that is!
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In the end, this country will get exactly what it deserves. We are no longer a United Kingdom, nor a Great Britain. We are a pathetic little island full of foreigners, squabbling among each other while other countries snigger at us and buy up all of our companies.
Unfortunately, there are still a class of people about who think we are still a world power. I'm sick of hearing about how we are the fifth richest country in the world. No, we are not. We generate the fifth largest amount of money in the world, but then spend it on welfare payments for no hopers and lazy bastards. Any thing that is left is squandered on the bottomless pit which is called the NHS ( no, not the finest in the world, just the most expensive).
I've had it with this shithole, and I feel very sorry for the younger, indigenous population.
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To mis-quote the mash report - we live in curious times when David Cameron can only take bronze in the 'Sh!ttest prime minister of the last 20yrs' award.
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Great, instead of one idiot trying to sort this mess out, we're back to 630 or so idiots trying to screw each other over >:(
so you would prefer a solution that was known to be illegal before it was implemented?
Johnson's MO has always been to gamble on the first idea he thought of and bluff his way through. It gets less likely to work the higher up the greasy pole it's tried.
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Not that I'm the first to say this, but all we've had is squabbling, in-fighting, with the bizarre scenario that although 51% of the population democratically want a thing, there must be barely a dozen MPs who actually want Brexit and are fighting for it, the rest are torn between towing the Party line (whatever that may be that week) or even jumping ship to whichever of the sinking ships in the torpedoed convoy seems to be sinking the slowest.
As far as I see it Boris just wants to get this chuffing thing sorted, over with and done, thats what he's fighting for. The rest - with Corbyn as figurehead - are just throwing spanners, sticks and stones at him at every turn to try and scupper the thing. I have no idea what Corbyn's Grand Plan is; clearly to be PM, but of what/how? Does he want to be PM, then say "I'll save you all! I'll negotiate with the EU for a better deal!"... or does he want to say "I'll save you all! I'll call a second referendum, in the hopes that this time 51% of people with vote remain!"
Stemo's sentiments are exactly the reason I don't have any kids yet - I genuinely cannot bear to bring life into this world/country as it is, it's horrific. :'(
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In the end, this country will get exactly what it deserves. We are no longer a United Kingdom, nor a Great Britain. We are a pathetic little island full of foreigners, squabbling among each other while other countries snigger at us and buy up all of our companies.
Unfortunately, there are still a class of people about who think we are still a world power. I'm sick of hearing about how we are the fifth richest country in the world. No, we are not. We generate the fifth largest amount of money in the world, but then spend it on welfare payments for no hopers and lazy bastards. Any thing that is left is squandered on the bottomless pit which is called the NHS ( no, not the finest in the world, just the most expensive).
I've had it with this shithole, and I feel very sorry for the younger, indigenous population.
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Couldn't have put it better myself, just hate to think what's in store for my Grandsons in a few years hate to say it but hope I'm pushing up daisies by then.
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So, idiot Corbyn has now called on Johnson to resign .... which achieves what ??
Corbyn will NOT agree to a General Election .. he had the chance which he turned down ... but doesn't want Johnson as PM .. so that just leads to yet another Conservative leadership election ... more procrastination...
Now, if Corbyn agreed to an election WE, THE PEOPLE, would actually have a choice ... but he's too scared to give us one
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And now, to top it all, that great British institution bargain hunt is late so that the rubber gobbed Gina Miller can spout her shite. Pah!
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I'm pretty sure at this point that the politicians want one of two things:
1) String this out until the end of time. This is our new normal, now. Come 2219 we will still be arguing about Brexit.
2) String this out until the media forgets about it and then quietly cancel Brexit, dissolving Parliament and replacing the queen with Juncker.
Both preposterous situations, but only as preposterous as the fact that we are STILL TALKING ABOUT BREXIT IN 2019!
(https://i.ibb.co/JBW5v0V/image.png)
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Great, instead of one idiot trying to sort this mess out, we're back to 630 or so idiots trying to screw each other over >:(
so you would prefer a solution that was known to be illegal before it was implemented?
Johnson's MO has always been to gamble on the first idea he thought of and bluff his way through. It gets less likely to work the higher up the greasy pole it's tried.
Not legal because of a law passed the day before? I'll take my chances. It could also legally be suggested that we left on March 31st and no one but Barnsley noticed.
Leaving is still the best chance we have. I mean, the current status quo is ridiculous whichever way you cut it, and remaining now will set us back at least as far as leaving, making neither choice an option.
If we remain from our current position we may as well close parliament permanently.
Surely better to get this shambles over with and follow it up immediately with the next GE, regardless of who wants one, or not or why, clear house and move on.
That's not about being patriotic or anti EU, but rather anti the current regime and it's eternal disinterest in both the country and it's electorate.
That is what really needs sorting and for all his faults, what I believe Boris is/was trying to achieve.
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I wonder if Boris could appeal to the ECJ ? ;D
My suggestion some time ago was to stay in the EU for five more years now n the express understanding that in 2024 there would be a ( another) final vote following proper presentation of pros and cons. That wont fly as the next government could just change that .
I think I would still vote out purely on the two counts of:
Unelected EU leaders taking us all in a way that suits the establishment and not Britain
Likelihood of being dragged into armed conflict in Eastern Europe over the EU empire expansion plans. We should be able to decide what conflicts we participate in.
Lets just roll over and be an EU colony to fund the EU expansion. Stuff the future , it is after all ( apparently) the young that want to be in the EU.
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To me, this blows apart the myth that Dominic Cummings is some kind of political tactical genius. Ive never believed it and doubt many others will now. In the book "The bad boys of Brexit", Aaron Banks says a lot about Cummings and none of it is good. He is convinced that the leave vote would have been much higher if Cummings hadn't been running the official campaign.
He was the man responsible for the slogan on the side of the bus, which has haunted the Leave campaign ever since.
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Putting BREXIT to one side, I think the ramifications of this 'judgement' will echo down the ages and we can look forward to legal challenges and litigation against any unpopular government action (even if necessary) where they use executive powers, the so call Henry VIIIth laws or the Royal Prerogative. ::)
Advise your kids and a grandkids to take up a legal career! :y
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Putting BREXIT to one side, I think the ramifications of this 'judgement' will echo down the ages and we can look forward to legal challenges and litigation against any unpopular government action (even if necessary) where they use executive powers, the so call Henry VIIIth laws or the Royal Prerogative. ::)
Advise your kids and a grandkids to take up a legal career! :y
Or, better still, move to Australia.
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Now then, Don is online. Expect a broadside any time soon ;D
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I am thinking along the same lines as Stemo on this .
The UK is now finished , killed off by the greedy, grasping all knowing and utterly irreverent MP's who have shown themselves to be dishonourable and beneath contempt.
I find it incredulous that we have got here through vote after vote that was upheld within the HOC but the initial and MOST important vote is cast aside as unworthy and unrepresentative .
Democracy ...? I spit on those that have brought this once great country to it's present shambolic and shameful state .
There is no doubt that they have constructively broken the will of the greater British populace to be free and self standing in this world by every duplicitous action they could muster and for that I hope that the four parts of the former UK are given their free reign and they are swallowed up in that quagmire across the channel and in the fullness of time they , and those , repent for their short sighted and crass actions daily.
What a sad and shameful day .
I said this on here before , to be denied a majority democratic vote is something I never , ever ,contemplated would happen to me naively believing that that only happened in lesser countries .
In some way it gives me great comfort that the Labour supporters who voted for a remain policy campaign last evening felt the same sting of betrayal
PS. How's that Steve ... ;)
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Knew I wouldn't be disappointed ;D
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Rods is up next....
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Rods is up next....
He's been typing since 10.46 this morning. ;D
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Rods is up next....
He's been typing since 10.46 this morning. ;D
Expect his response at 5.35 PM. :)
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Rods is up next....
He's been typing since 10.46 this morning. ;D
Yes, another tome, no doubt. And the server could be busy for a while once Lizzie starts.
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Rods is up next....
He's been typing since 10.46 this morning. ;D
Yes, another tome, no doubt. And the server could be busy for a while once Lizzie starts.
I will say no little more on this subject following my earlier post. I am very angry, and boiling, especially after seeing Marxist Corbyn gloatin at his Red Party Conference!! >:( >:(
Boris, due to his incompetence and foolish bluster, and the support of the stupid who put him into power, has now put our democracy even further in danger. He should NEVER have taken the PM role on as he is the Buffoon I and many thought he was. The World now sees that, as much as they did when Anthony Eden's bluff was called over Suez by the Americans in 1956, and destroyed any existing illusion we were still any form of a World superpower!
Now, according to some statements made by various commentators (which I do not have the knowledge to confirm or deny), power has firmly been handed to Brussels, who could now enforce an indefinite extension to Article 51, at their will, not our democratically elected 'representatives' - if they really still are - nor, very importantly the will of 51% of the British public!
What a fxcking mess!! >:( >:( >:( :-X :-X :-X :-X
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General election, Tory Brexit party coalition, out in no time. It's up to the electorate.
Not that I care, you understand. ::)
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General election, Tory Brexit party coalition, out in no time. It's up to the electorate.
Not that I care, you understand. ::)
Or...........Labour / Lib Dem coalition mentioned more than once during the TV broadcasts!! :o :o :o
I just do not want to go there!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
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General election, Tory Brexit party coalition, out in no time. It's up to the electorate.
Not that I care, you understand. ::)
Or...........Labour / Lib Dem coalition mentioned more than once during the TV broadcasts!! :o :o :o
I just do not want to go there!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
If that's the way the country chooses........on their own heads be it.
Last time I looked, peoples voting intentions were more Tory/Brexit party than the other two.
Hope it's not a draw ;D
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I think its quite likely that the outcome will be one of those two results. If its Lib/Lab, god help us all.
Farage said on the wireless this morning that he wouldn't ask for any Govt. job whatsoever if the scenario arises (although he didn't say he would turn one down if offered) as he is only interested in doing what it takes to finish what he has fought for, for 25 years and the 17.4 million voted for.
I think its the only realistic hope of saving our democracy tbh.
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I think its quite likely that the outcome will be one of those two results. If its Lib/Lab, god help us all.
Farage said on the wireless this morning that he wouldn't ask for any Govt. job whatsoever if the scenario arises (although he didn't say he would turn one down if offered) as he is only interested in doing what it takes to finish what he has fought for, for 25 years and the 17.4 million voted for.
I think its the only realistic hope of saving our democracy tbh.
On the wireless, eh? What did Churchill say about it all? ;D
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OK then, DAB radio in Airfix 1.
Oh, and Churchill said "We shall fight them on the beaches...…." Whatever happened to that nation of people ?
Haha, my edit was beaten to it.
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I think its quite likely that the outcome will be one of those two results. If its Lib/Lab, god help us all.
Farage said on the wireless this morning that he wouldn't ask for any Govt. job whatsoever if the scenario arises (although he didn't say he would turn one down if offered) as he is only interested in doing what it takes to finish what he has fought for, for 25 years and the 17.4 million voted for.
I think its the only realistic hope of saving our democracy tbh.
On the wireless, eh? What did Churchill say about it all? ;D
"We shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender..."
Where is our Churchill type politician now? ::) ::) ;)
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He is in court appealing the verdict...
Or, at least he bloody well should be >:(
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He is in court appealing the verdict...
Or, at least he bloody well should be >:(
He should just go to the queen and say "I might have told you a small porky when we last met, but I'll come clean this time. Honest..........ma'am" Give her a quick feel up, and job's a good'un. :y
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He is in the ECJ appealing the verdict...
Or, at least he bloody well should be >:(
;D
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He is in the ECJ appealing the verdict...
Or, at least he bloody well should be >:(
;D
Imagine if he went there and won. ;D
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He is in court appealing the verdict...
Or, at least he bloody well should be >:(
He should just go to the queen and say "I might have told you a small porky when we last met, but I'll come clean this time. Honest..........ma'am" Give her a quick feel up, and job's a good'un. :y
"Send him to the tower" would have been the cry from our beloved Queen Elizabeth I ! ;D ;D ;)
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He is in court appealing the verdict...
Or, at least he bloody well should be >:(
He stands no chance with that, and more like he will be in court defending a criminal charge of some kind, like Perjury and deceiving Parliament ::) :D :D
This was an absolutely unanimous ruling by 11 justices by the Supreme Court. According to many QC's interviewed after the ruling, this is absolutely damning and "seismic" in magnitude, with no way back legally for Boris. ;)
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There is no legal body higher than the supreme court to appeal to.
11-0 is a bit of a kicking I'm afraid. :-\
It appears Boris has been a naughty boy again. ;) :D
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There is no legal body higher than the supreme court to appeal to.
11-0 is a bit of a kicking I'm afraid. :-\
It appears Boris has been a naughty boy again. ;) :D
Or he was put up to it... Which suggests that the whole sorry mess is moot...
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There is no legal body higher than the supreme court to appeal to.
11-0 is a bit of a kicking I'm afraid. :-\
It appears Boris has been a naughty boy again. ;) :D
European Court of Justice ? It would of course be another 11 nil type of result.
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There is no legal body higher than the supreme court to appeal to.
11-0 is a bit of a kicking I'm afraid. :-\
It appears Boris has been a naughty boy again. ;) :D
European Court of Justice ? It would of course be another 11 nil type of result.
12-0......even with only eleven judges. :D
Much like the boxing at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Visiting boxers needed to knock out the American boxers to get a draw. ;)
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But would delay the whole thing, probably for a lot longer than the shutdown. In fact we would leave long before the case got to court so they would never get to make their judgement, which would be hilarious.
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It turns out that Geoffrey Cox told Boris it was legal to prorogue. I would think theres a good chance he will resign tomorrow.
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As I’ve claimed all along, only Nigel can save us now :y
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It turns out that Geoffrey Cox told Boris it was legal to prorogue. I would think theres a good chance he will resign tomorrow.
At least Bojo accepted the result. I thought for a moment he was going to say all the supreme court judges were bent.
That would have set the cat amongst the pigeons.... :D
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As I’ve claimed all along, only Nigel can save us now :y
Bojo, that knobjockey Farage, even St George can do no better than May's attempt. We are an irrelevance in the scale of things. You can't do a great negotiation when everyone knows the other sides holds all the aces.
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And nobody is prepared to work for the common good >:(
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And nobody is prepared to work for the common good >:(
Indeed. And the common good now is to just do anything except delay it.
But the issue is, nobody can define what the common good is, be it no deal, a deal, or rescind.
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Yes the three year delay with all its nonsense has weakened our hand whichever way you look at it.
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Yes the three year delay with all its nonsense has weakened our hand whichever way you look at it.
I don't think its changed much from our negotiating capability - other than bojo is now seen as a weak, untrustworthy pillock.
But its certainly buggered our UK businesses.
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Yes indeed
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It turns out that Geoffrey Cox told Boris it was legal to prorogue. I would think theres a good chance he will resign tomorrow.
At least Bojo accepted the result. I thought for a moment he was going to say all the supreme court judges were bent.
That would have set the cat amongst the pigeons.... :D
He didn't have a choice really !
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As I’ve claimed all along, only Nigel God can save us now :y
FTFY.
Which proves we're oppsed, as God is just as imaginary as a deal that's acceptable to more than one group.
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
Er........ :)
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
Er........ :)
Maybe our learned M'lud could direct us to the statute that the government has contravened? ::)
This wasn't a legal judgement, it was a political judgement and the High Court and the first Scottish judge called it correctly in my opinion. :y
There is even recent precedent of Prime Ministers proroguing Parliament for political purposes. John Major did it to avoid the cash for questions scandal and Clement Attlee did it to avoid the Lords wrecking legislation reducing their powers. ::) ;)
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John Major actually helped bring the case yesterday, and afterwards declared the result a great victory as no PM will ever be able to do this to Parliament or the Queen ever again. Considering he did the same thing, just to try and save his own premiership, the hypocrisy is appalling.
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Whatever we as individuals think, this judgement was based on matters that are legal, but political, in tandem. You can go right back to 1611 when King James VI was challenged, as then the effective Parliament of the land, about Proroguing Parliament, and that involved legally the earlier Case of Proclamations [1610] EWHC KB J22 which is a UK constitutional law case that has formed the backbone of the standing of the justice system and that of the King, now in 2019, the Prime Minister.
Now, 11 justices made the latest judgement, with all the highly trained legal experts, that is QC's, who have commented so far not even beginning to challenge this judgement because they, although not having heard the legal proceedings, see no reason to do so.
It is obviously avery complex legal matter that goes to the heart of our democracy, the unwritten Constitution, the law, and the standing of Parliament, with the monarch involved.
I cannot speak for all of you, but this matter is way above my head and legal knowledge!! :o :o ::) ::)
The judgement is what it is; the action by Boris Johnson as Prime Minister to Prorogue Parliament was unlawful. I, like you, must at this point in time accept that legal verdict by the highest court in the land ;)
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
I'm in agreement with you on this Albs.
I thought Geoffrey Cox was thoroughly entertaining .
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Whatever we as individuals think, this judgement was based on matters that are legal, but political, in tandem. You can go right back to 1611 when King James VI was challenged, as then the effective Parliament of the land, and there was the Case of Proclamations [1610] EWHC KB J22 which is a UK constitutional law case that has formed the backbone of the standing of the justice system and that of the King, now in 2019, the Prime Minister.
Now, 11 justices made the latest judgement, with all the highly trained legal experts, that is QC's, who have commented so far not even beginning to challenge this judgement because they, although not having heard the legal proceedings, see no reason to do so.
It is obviously avery complex legal matter that goes to the heart of our democracy, the unwritten Constitution, the law, and the standing of Parliament, with the monarch involved.
I cannot speak for all of you, but this matter is way above my head and legal knowledge!! :o :o ::) ::)
The judgement is what it is; the action by Boris Johnson as Prime Minister to Prorogue Parliament was unlawful. I, like you, must at this point in time accept that legal verdict by the highest court in the land ;)
Whilst we must "accept" it .. we don't "have" to agree with it .... I'm only a simple soul, but in my time working in the Crown Courts it was ALWAYS neccessary for the prosecution to state what Statute had been breached in order for a trial to commence, as if no statute is breached no "law" is broken... an something can only be "unlawful" if a law is broken IMHO, and at no time has anyone quoted what law BJ is supposed to have broken.
We now have a situation that, by precedent, (in other words by a previous judgement ie this one) every decision by Parliament can be referred to the High Court, not what a democracy should be.
There has been much waffle regarding the idea of "parliamentary democracy" .. but very little talk of "true" democracy ... the referendum had no middle ground .. it was an "In or Out" decision that went the way of "Out", yet the bunch of wasters in parliament seek to over rule that as they don't like it, and are using the closeness of the result as a very poor excuse. There cannot be a comprimise they all pretend to seek ,, we cannot be half in and half out... we either stay or we go .. and the vote said "Go"
So much for "True Democracy" :(
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There has been much waffle regarding the idea of "parliamentary democracy" .. but very little talk of "true" democracy ... the referendum had no middle ground .. it was an "In or Out" decision that went the way of "Out", yet the bunch of wasters in parliament seek to over rule that as they don't like it, and are using the closeness of the result as a very poor excuse. There cannot be a compromise they all pretend to seek ,, we cannot be half in and half out... we either stay or we go .. and the vote said "Go"
So much for "True Democracy" :(
On the BBC news earlier they played a clip of Amber Dudd speaking in Parliament earlier where she attacked Geoffrey Cox for his language and said that there must be a compromise. ::)
This is just not how democracy works and had Remain won the referendum there would have been no attempt at compromise, no partial withdrawal to satisfy the losers, nothing! ::)
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Whatever we as individuals think, this judgement was based on matters that are legal, but political, in tandem. You can go right back to 1611 when King James VI was challenged, as then the effective Parliament of the land, and there was the Case of Proclamations [1610] EWHC KB J22 which is a UK constitutional law case that has formed the backbone of the standing of the justice system and that of the King, now in 2019, the Prime Minister.
Now, 11 justices made the latest judgement, with all the highly trained legal experts, that is QC's, who have commented so far not even beginning to challenge this judgement because they, although not having heard the legal proceedings, see no reason to do so.
It is obviously avery complex legal matter that goes to the heart of our democracy, the unwritten Constitution, the law, and the standing of Parliament, with the monarch involved.
I cannot speak for all of you, but this matter is way above my head and legal knowledge!! :o :o ::) ::)
The judgement is what it is; the action by Boris Johnson as Prime Minister to Prorogue Parliament was unlawful. I, like you, must at this point in time accept that legal verdict by the highest court in the land ;)
Whilst we must "accept" it .. we don't "have" to agree with it .... I'm only a simple soul, but in my time working in the Crown Courts it was ALWAYS neccessary for the prosecution to state what Statute had been breached in order for a trial to commence, as if no statute is breached no "law" is broken... an something can only be "unlawful" if a law is broken IMHO, and at no time has anyone quoted what law BJ is supposed to have broken.
We now have a situation that, by precedent, (in other words by a previous judgement ie this one) every decision by Parliament can be referred to the High Court, not what a democracy should be.
There has been much waffle regarding the idea of "parliamentary democracy" .. but very little talk of "true" democracy ... the referendum had no middle ground .. it was an "In or Out" decision that went the way of "Out", yet the bunch of wasters in parliament seek to over rule that as they don't like it, and are using the closeness of the result as a very poor excuse. There cannot be a comprimise they all pretend to seek ,, we cannot be half in and half out... we either stay or we go .. and the vote said "Go"
So much for "True Democracy" :(
Yes, we do not "have" to agree with it :y :y
But us not agreeing with it will make absolutely no difference at this, or any other stage! The trouble is every tom dick and harry political party, apart from the Conservatives, are ACCEPTING the ruling with glee, and the ones angry with the verdict, like Farage and old stooges from past Conservative governments, are only feeling that way about the fact Boris has brought it all to this level. They are not challenging the ruling either!!
No, we as a people, as a country, are so split now that only a Civil "War", peaceful or otherwise to sort out our "representatives" in Parliament will, MAYBE, start to give us answers. Even a General Election that gives us a chance to "voice" our views will achieve..................absolutely nothing...........as it stands, as we are so divided no clear majority will be arrived at, let alone a clear mandate to actually commit to BREXIT!
It is a mess, and we, the general public, can only, at the moment, express our anger on web sites like this! >:( >:( >:(
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
Er........ :)
Maybe our learned M'lud could direct us to the statute that the government has contravened? ::)
This wasn't a legal judgement, it was a political judgement and the High Court and the first Scottish judge called it correctly in my opinion. :y
There is even recent precedent of Prime Ministers proroguing Parliament for political purposes. John Major did it to avoid the cash for questions scandal and Clement Attlee did it to avoid the Lords wrecking legislation reducing their powers. ::) ;)
Oh.....I accept that you and French Albs are right and the supreme court doesn't know it's arse from it's elbow. :)
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
Er........ :)
Maybe our learned M'lud could direct us to the statute that the government has contravened? ::)
This wasn't a legal judgement, it was a political judgement and the High Court and the first Scottish judge called it correctly in my opinion. :y
There is even recent precedent of Prime Ministers proroguing Parliament for political purposes. John Major did it to avoid the cash for questions scandal and Clement Attlee did it to avoid the Lords wrecking legislation reducing their powers. ::) ;)
Oh.....I accept that you and French Albs are right and the supreme court doesn't know it's arse from it's elbow. :)
Thankyou M'lud! :)
However, what is interesting is that the three judges who dismissed Gina Millers case in the High Court are no lightweights either and were the Lord Chief Justice Lord Burnett, The Master of the Rolls Sir Terence Etherton and President of the Queens Bench Division Dame Victoria Sharp.
I guess they didn't know their arses from their elbows either! ;D Although, I guess by giving permission to appeal they created some nice work for their lawyerly brethren. :-X ::)
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
Er........ :)
Maybe our learned M'lud could direct us to the statute that the government has contravened? ::)
This wasn't a legal judgement, it was a political judgement and the High Court and the first Scottish judge called it correctly in my opinion. :y
There is even recent precedent of Prime Ministers proroguing Parliament for political purposes. John Major did it to avoid the cash for questions scandal and Clement Attlee did it to avoid the Lords wrecking legislation reducing their powers. ::) ;)
Oh.....I accept that you and French Albs are right and the supreme court doesn't know it's arse from it's elbow. :)
Thankyou M'lud! :)
However, what is interesting is that the three judges who dismissed Gina Millers case in the High Court are no lightweights either and were the Lord Chief Justice Lord Burnett, The Master of the Rolls Sir Terence Etherton and President of the Queens Bench Division Dame Victoria Sharp.
I guess they didn't know their arses from their elbows either! ;D Although, I guess by giving permission to appeal they created some nice work for their lawyerly brethren. :-X ::)
Yes, money, money, money, is what makes that profession tick at that level, so they all must be delighted and have won, won, won! ;D ;D ;)
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
Er........ :)
Maybe our learned M'lud could direct us to the statute that the government has contravened? ::)
This wasn't a legal judgement, it was a political judgement and the High Court and the first Scottish judge called it correctly in my opinion. :y
There is even recent precedent of Prime Ministers proroguing Parliament for political purposes. John Major did it to avoid the cash for questions scandal and Clement Attlee did it to avoid the Lords wrecking legislation reducing their powers. ::) ;)
Oh.....I accept that you and French Albs are right and the supreme court doesn't know it's arse from it's elbow. :)
Thankyou M'lud! :)
However, what is interesting is that the three judges who dismissed Gina Millers case in the High Court are no lightweights either and were the Lord Chief Justice Lord Burnett, The Master of the Rolls Sir Terence Etherton and President of the Queens Bench Division Dame Victoria Sharp.
I guess they didn't know their arses from their elbows either! ;D Although, I guess by giving permission to appeal they created some nice work for their lawyerly brethren. :-X ::)
Yes, money, money, money, is what makes that profession tick at that level, so they all must be delighted and have won, won, won! ;D ;D ;)
Yep and now thanks to Gina Miller (and whoever is really behind all this and pulling the strings), we can look forward to many more legal challenges to government decisions and lots of taxpayers money spent on legal fees! >:(
I wonder if the Government would qualify for Legal Aid? ??? Oh wait... ::) ;D
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Ive just been listening to the Attorney General speaking in the commons about this. From what I can make out the Govt. didn't break any law. The Supreme court decided to turn a Convention into a law and apply it retrospectively, therefore deeming the action to be unlawful !
They have the power to do this, but it sounds very much like a coup to me.
Er........ :)
Maybe our learned M'lud could direct us to the statute that the government has contravened? ::)
This wasn't a legal judgement, it was a political judgement and the High Court and the first Scottish judge called it correctly in my opinion. :y
There is even recent precedent of Prime Ministers proroguing Parliament for political purposes. John Major did it to avoid the cash for questions scandal and Clement Attlee did it to avoid the Lords wrecking legislation reducing their powers. ::) ;)
Oh.....I accept that you and French Albs are right and the supreme court doesn't know it's arse from it's elbow. :)
Thankyou M'lud! :)
However, what is interesting is that the three judges who dismissed Gina Millers case in the High Court are no lightweights either and were the Lord Chief Justice Lord Burnett, The Master of the Rolls Sir Terence Etherton and President of the Queens Bench Division Dame Victoria Sharp.
I guess they didn't know their arses from their elbows either! ;D Although, I guess by giving permission to appeal they created some nice work for their lawyerly brethren. :-X ::)
Yes, money, money, money, is what makes that profession tick at that level, so they all must be delighted and have won, won, won! ;D ;D ;)
Yep and now thanks to Gina Miller (and whoever is really behind all this and pulling the strings), we can look forward to many more legal challenges to government decisions and lots of taxpayers money spent on legal fees! >:(
I wonder if the Government would qualify for Legal Aid? ??? Oh wait... ::) ;D
Oh yes, WE are certainly paying for it, and all the costs of the BREXIT fiasco, with Boris just the most recent cause for the "waste"! >:( >:( >:(
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David Starkey has interesting views on this.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/dr-david-starkey-brutal-analysis-on-supreme-court/
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David Starkey has interesting views on this.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/dr-david-starkey-brutal-analysis-on-supreme-court/
But he is an historian with an opinion, who is not a QC or even a lawyer of any kind.
Why is his opinion so important and relevant than everyone else's that has one on all this fiasco? ::) ::) :)
Interesting, yes, but has little meaning I'm afraid as usually I follow his statement, and presentations, on history 8) :y
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I never suggested his opinion was more relevant or important than anyone elses. Just suggested it was interesting.
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David Starkey has interesting views on this.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/dr-david-starkey-brutal-analysis-on-supreme-court/
But he is an historian with an opinion, who is not a QC or even a lawyer of any kind.
Why is his opinion so important and relevant than everyone else's that has one on all this fiasco? ::) ::) :)
Interesting, yes, but has little meaning I'm afraid as usually I follow his statement, and presentations, on history 8) :y
Pot , kettle black.
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David Starkey has interesting views on this.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/dr-david-starkey-brutal-analysis-on-supreme-court/
But he is an historian with an opinion, who is not a QC or even a lawyer of any kind.
Why is his opinion so important and relevant than everyone else's that has one on all this fiasco? ::) ::) :)
Interesting, yes, but has little meaning I'm afraid as usually I follow his statement, and presentations, on history 8) :y
Pot , kettle black.
That's right, I, like you, are irrelevant in this debate, as an historian who has no legal training is, and indeed no electorate are important at the moment it seems going on what the politicians are up to!" >:( >:(
The latest is that Labour, the so called "opposition", do not want a general election. You couldn't make it up! ::) ::) >:(
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Boris has begged them to propose a no confidence motion in his Govt. today, and they refuse to do it. We are through the looking glass folks.
He said the only thing Labour MP,s fear more than losing an election under Corbyn, is winning one. Which is probably true.
Personally, I don't believe Corbyn wants to be PM. He is a protester, a malcontent, an agitator. He wouldn't know where to begin if he was handed the reins of power, and I suspect he knows it.
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Boris has begged them to propose a no confidence motion in his Govt. today, and they refuse to do it. We are through the looking glass folks.
Yep, I'm just waiting for the mad hater to turn up, and a white rabbit :o :o ;)
Wake me up please when this mad, mad nightmare of a dream is over!
Monty Python would have done a wonderful sketch on this; perhaps a Dead Parliament sketch!! ;D ;D
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We are now effectively ruled by the politicians in the Supreme Court, who unlike the Supreme Court judges in the US who have to place themselves under public scrutiny in the Senate (HoL), but are subject to being elected by elected politicians. In the UK they are appointed. IMV we are now ruled by an 11 person #SupremeCourtJunta. The only parallel I can think of is the 1967-74 rule by the 3 colonels in the #GreekMilitaryJunta where they installed themselves in a coup to save the people from themselves.
IMV the trashing of our unwritten constitution which has trashed our democracy has been done at the government level so we can no longer consider the UK a democracy or a constitutional monarchy :-\, where the Queen was not required to give her Royal Assent to it:
1. The speaker & the Tory rebel MPs overturning SO40 where it is the elected government that decides parliament's business, not the minor parties, this trashes centuries of constitutional president & makes governments & our democracy unworkable.
2. The fact the 'impartial' speaker introduced this and is no longer 'impartial' trashes centuries of president for our unwritten constitution & make him now the most important arbiter on deciding parliament's and government's business.
3. An important part of our former democracy is anybody can apply to the courts to have a decision made over a point of law & many governments have had to improve laws as a result, but judges cannot and must not ever make new laws on the fly (that is parliament's job), to suit their political views and then apply them retrospectively to make something illegal. IMV this firmly puts the #SupremeCourtJunta in the territory of despots who run banana republics.
4. The LimpDims / CaMoron fixed term act is a disaster & means that once a government is a minority it can be kept as a zombee government for as long as the minor parties think they can't win a GE or the 5 years is up. We could end up with no effective government (other that Ginia Miller & the #SupremeCourtJunta) until May 2022. The only other country that has for years had no functioning government is that paragon of law abiding virtue, Somalia which we are now going to unfortunately be compared to.
I knew with May's undermining and trying to set aside of the 17.4m #Brexit leave voters that anti-democratic forces were being unleashed. Corbyn & his cabal have been maneuvering with their 'short term unity government' to use it to set up his Marxist dictatorship & I can't see the how or why this is going to end or when, if ever, & if or how a working democracy will be restored?
A general election won't solve anything not due to where the country is split, but because if it is the remain parties that lose (and they probably will) they will never accept the result & decocracies can't work if the losers never concede defeat. Where elections are like modern sports reasonably civilised rules based contents, like democracies but both are also brutal winner takes all contests. By politicians replacing democracy, we all know what comes next, real no rules, blood sport gladiatorial contests. Like I said previously in hot civil wars we all have to pick a side as fathers & sons, mothers & daughters & brothers & sisters all end up split & end up fighting on different sides, it is classed as the most divisive, brutal & bloody type of war there is. :(
Does anybody know any ultra-remainers? If so, please can you get them to explain to me the attraction of being a colony of the foreign Brussels' dictatorship, beyond the promise of the reward of 30 pieces of silver from the EU and changing your name to Judas? Franco would have been proud during the Spanish civil war where he was attacking Madrid with four columns with a fifth inside. The EU's fifth column within the UK is much bigger. >:( >:( >:(
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For those who haven't seen it here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp865xUXMrg) the Attorney General Sir Geoffrey Cox's performance at the dispatch box earlier today! :y
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For those who haven't seen it here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp865xUXMrg) the Attorney General Sir Geoffrey Cox's performance at the dispatch box earlier today! :y
Seems he's rather better at empty rhetoric than he is at advising the government on points of law, maybe he and Bojo could arrange some sort of job-share arrangement... Does Boris have any legal training I wonder? ;D
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For those who haven't seen it here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp865xUXMrg) the Attorney General Sir Geoffrey Cox's performance at the dispatch box earlier today! :y
Seems he's rather better at empty rhetoric than he is at advising the government on points of law, maybe he and Bojo could arrange some sort of job-share arrangement... Does Boris have any legal training I wonder? ;D
I suspect that technically his points of law were spot on regarding the prorogation, it was the points of politics that were suspect, and that is what the Supreme Court gave their verdict on. ::)
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Boris has begged them to propose a no confidence motion in his Govt. today, and they refuse to do it. We are through the looking glass folks.
He said the only thing Labour MP,s fear more than losing an election under Corbyn, is winning one. Which is probably true.
Personally, I don't believe Corbyn wants to be PM. He is a protester, a malcontent, an agitator. He wouldn't know where to begin if he was handed the reins of power, and I suspect he knows it.
Boris' entire 'strategy' was based on making the opposition force him to call a General Election. But they are not playing that game, and he had no other options with any chance of succeeding. His bungling posh-boy persona only works here(and we should be embarrased by that) so he was never going to get anywhere with the EU either.
Your description of Corbyn is equally applicable to Johnson, although you would need to add 'gambler' to the list.
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"Boris and Cox wiped the floor with the lot of them yesterday, so today they have all gone into holier than though/ Mother Theresa mode, and are trying to get the Tories to promise they wont ever be beastly or nasty ever again.
Boris,s remark about Jo Cox was a tad clumsy though. Although it didn't warrant this outpouring, from the hypocrites on the other benches.
They seem to have forgotten about the Labour MP,s and members who have been threatened and intimidated until they had no choice but to leave the party they loved. Not to mention Corbyns support of mass murderers everywhere, as long as they are left wing mass murderers."
I was about to reply to this post by Albs on the Climate Change mk2 thread but was too slow ...so have added it here .
I just watched the performances of the humble " honourable friends " citing fear for their lives and documenting the abuse that they recieve daily and calling for the PM to come to the despatch box get on his knees and beg for the forgiveness of the House for his , and only his ::) shameful conduct last evening.
I smiled at the ability of these sanctimonious hypocrits to deftly transform from the baying wolves suffering from chronic rosacea that I witnessed last evening.
Milliband and Swinson were cringeworthy .
They really are a sad ,whinging self righteous lot .
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And paid handsomely for it sadly >:(
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His bungling posh-boy persona only works here(and we should be embarrased by that) so he was never going to get anywhere with the EU either.
Doesn't matter who we send to Brussels. If they try to get a good deal for the UK or even a mutually advantageous deal, they won't get anywhere. ::)
Corbyn would probably get on OK though, because his deal would make Theresa May's deal look like a rock hard exit! ::) :)
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Boris has begged them to propose a no confidence motion in his Govt. today, and they refuse to do it. We are through the looking glass folks.
He said the only thing Labour MP,s fear more than losing an election under Corbyn, is winning one. Which is probably true.
Personally, I don't believe Corbyn wants to be PM. He is a protester, a malcontent, an agitator. He wouldn't know where to begin if he was handed the reins of power, and I suspect he knows it.
Boris' entire 'strategy' was based on making the opposition force him to call a General Election. But they are not playing that game, and he had no other options with any chance of succeeding. His bungling posh-boy persona only works here(and we should be embarrased by that) so he was never going to get anywhere with the EU either.
Your description of Corbyn is equally applicable to Johnson, although you would need to add 'gambler' to the list.
They'll have to play that game after Oct 31st. Then November will be taken up with a GE, December with a queen's speech, cabinet shuffle, etc. and, if the electorate have any sense, we'll leave on January 31st anyway.
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So, they spent the morning being ever so civil and meek until it came to a vote to recess for 3 days to allow the Tories to have their conference. The civility disappeared instantly and they voted against it. Unbelievable.
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So, they spent the morning being ever so civil and meek until it came to a vote to recess for 3 days to allow the Tories to have their conference. The civility disappeared instantly and they voted against it. Unbelievable.
So after tactic 1 to run the clock down was ruled illegal, they asked for a Vote to run the clock down....
I can't imagine why it was voted down. ;D
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So, they spent the morning being ever so civil and meek until it came to a vote to recess for 3 days to allow the Tories to have their conference. The civility disappeared instantly and they voted against it. Unbelievable.
What would happen if the Tories just went and had their conference? The others would have the house to themselves, surely they'd be happy with that?
Come on, Boris, give them the finger.....again.
Bercow will cry, though, the little shit will have no one to bully.
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So, they spent the morning being ever so civil and meek until it came to a vote to recess for 3 days to allow the Tories to have their conference. The civility disappeared instantly and they voted against it. Unbelievable.
The irony of course is that had Boris not prorogued, they'd have all happily voted to recess for their conferences. ::)
We didn't hear many complaints about having to have their summer holidays! :D
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So, they spent the morning being ever so civil and meek until it came to a vote to recess for 3 days to allow the Tories to have their conference. The civility disappeared instantly and they voted against it. Unbelievable.
What would happen if the Tories just went and had their conference? The others would have the house to themselves, surely they'd be happy with that?
Come on, Boris, give them the finger.....again.
Bercow will cry, though, the little shit will have no one to bully.
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Aye the sooner that t#at goes the better.
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Cooper and Balls daughter says " i'm scared,i'm scared " and pleads for PM to apologise.
What do these people expect , they have dithered , potificated and insulted 17 million plus people for three years and they cannot see why the extremists on right ,left and centre are being awakend like zombies.
If MP's and their families are so scared of the repercussions of their deliberate and self centred antics then either squeeze the shit out of the neck of the bottle via a GE or simply resign.
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Cooper and Balls. If ever a couple deserved each other...........
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So, they spent the morning being ever so civil and meek until it came to a vote to recess for 3 days to allow the Tories to have their conference. The civility disappeared instantly and they voted against it. Unbelievable.
The irony of course is that had Boris not prorogued, they'd have all happily voted to recess for their conferences. ::)
We didn't hear many complaints about having to have their summer holidays! :D
Good point. I have always thought party conferences should be on their own time ( weekends or summer holidays) Wonder if instead of the prorogue ‘ ing if therewould have been complaints if hols had been cancelled so parliament could catch up on everything that has just been forgotten for the last two years.
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I had a look at the Parliament channel this afternoon and the opposition benches were virtually empty. There was less than 10 MP,s sat on them. Yet we had all that hyperbole about them being denied their democratic voices. Thursday afternoon and all they are all off to their second homes for a long weekend.
Where is Guy Fawkes when we need him ?
Jess Phillips complaining about abuse. I saw here on a political programme with Farage a year or two ago. The host asked Farage about details of his last conversation with Trump When Farage said it was a private matter Phillips leaned towards him and asked "was it about groping women ?" She is a fickin disgraceful specimen.
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So, they spent the morning being ever so civil and meek until it came to a vote to recess for 3 days to allow the Tories to have their conference. The civility disappeared instantly and they voted against it. Unbelievable.
. To be more accurate they wasted the whole morning moaning oh dear they’re calling me this they’re calling me that please make the PM apologise he said this they said that blah blah what the fu(k is the point of paying good money to these fools? They have a job to do but they just argue and piss about all day, fk I can do that for far less. We need to install a dictator or even a dicktator ha ha. Anyone up for the job?
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I fear that it's a reflection of the " I'm offended so I'll complain " culture that seems to prevail in all walks of life now.
Politics is a rough and tumble business but the most recent incumbents , and in particular the mumsie brigade , seem to think it should be conducted in a playgroup manner .
Heat of the kitchen and all that .
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I fear that it's a reflection of the " I'm offended so I'll complain " culture that seems to prevail in all walks of life now.
Politics is a rough and tumble business but the most recent incumbents , and in particular the mumsie brigade , seem to think it should be conducted in a playgroup manner .
Heat of the kitchen and all that .
Like I said earlier, people get what they deserve. We've all had a good chance to look at what's on offer at the next general election. So, if the same whingeing snowflakes get elected, then it's obviously what the voting public wants.
No moaning if Boris tells the EU to eff off, and no moaning if Corbyn turns us into a left wing version of Russia. You mark your cross and you shut your fickin mouth.
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Mm after carefully studying the above comment ::)I agree, we as a collective only have ourselves to blame.
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Part of the problem is our electoral system.Round here the world will end before anyone other than a labour candidate gets elected.
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Part of the problem is our electoral system.Round here the world will end before anyone other than a labour candidate gets elected.
:( Same here , put a red hat on a pig and it would get elected , and they wonder why people are "disconnected" with politics :(
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True blue round here where Oliver Letwin enjoys a healthy majority. He's not going to stand again, but if he did I reckon the Brexit Party would have trimmed that for him. ::)
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We have James Cleverly. His votes will probably be double the total opposition votes.