Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 03 December 2020, 09:37:14
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Deadline after deadline pass.
It has all gone quiet. Not the usual leaks we have had. Maybe that is a good sign.
My suspicion is a deal will be made but will then struggle to get approval by the EU countries. Eg France on whatever is agreed on fishing. I can see Boris meeting with EU dignitaries very soon.
All extremely last minute. I wonder if in the event of a trade deal or not, there will be an adjustment period!
Do you think there will be a deal?
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Unlikely, and nor should there be. The EU has done nothing but demand. If our leaving the EU last January, yes i know it's a struggle to grasp..., is such a threat to the EU perhaps they should have taken it more seriously. ???
We can only hope that Barnier and his team suffer a train breakdown on their way home.
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No deal is better than a bad deal............. Say the French! ::)
Ooo the irony! ;D
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Afterall, everything that they have proposed has been worse than staying in... Which hardly been an incentive ;D
The French will be happy as long as they are French :D
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Negotiation is like playing poker. He who knows he holds the cards, can let the time slip, until the other party starts to panic. This is how the EU is playing it.
What both parties need is a win win.
Unfortunately, neither party is looking to compromise, so it comes down to who has bigger ballocks.
The UK has bigger ballocks. Unfortunately he is in charge at the moment.
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https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/
Long read from 2018, but I still refer to it sometimes. It explains why these negotiations are and will continue to be extremely difficult.
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Do you think there will be a deal?
You have been tripping overyouself for the last 4 years to insist that the EU will roll over and give us better than we had before without having to pay into the system, simply because we are British.
So of course we will get a stunning deal, and also the £350m a week for the NHS as promised on the bus.
Or is the reality finally starting to hit home?
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The best deal was always going to be No Deal. At least we know where we are at. Just a pity it all didn't happen a week after the Referendum...
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The best deal was always going to be No Deal. At least we know where we are at. Just a pity it all didn't happen a week after the Referendum...
If you dont need a working economy to pay for the lame and lazy. And the civil service.
We hadn't recovered from the crash 12yrs ago, we have been in recession in most sectors for the last 3 years, so we were already monumentally screwed. Before any of this sniffle thing which has helped Boris ignore Brexit.
The timing (pre sniffle) was about as worse it could have been.
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Do you think there will be a deal?
You have been tripping over yourself for the last 4 years to insist that the EU will roll over and give us better than we had before without having to pay into the system, simply because we are British.
So of course we will get a stunning deal, and also the £350m a week for the NHS as promised on the bus.
Or is the reality finally starting to hit home?
Just like us, the EU can't afford to give in.
Unlike us, 'no deal' will be an inconvenience not cutting their own throats.
No deal will last until the first blood hits the floor, and then we'll be clamouring for whatever scraps we can get.
The whole thing has been such a opps up, we won't deserve those.
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Ok we have been over all that stuff over the last four years.
Will there be a deal in the next few days? I am thinking yes as it has all gone quiet.
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Good luck with that...
https://youtu.be/35XhJe1gg0A
;D
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Or is the reality finally starting to hit home?
Ok we have been over all that stuff over the last four years.
A simple Yes would have sufficed.
As to any deal, the only way that will happen is if Boris sells us out in return for little. In which case we would have been better staying in (which we currently always would have anyway).
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Or is the reality finally starting to hit home?
Ok we have been over all that stuff over the last four years.
A simple Yes would have sufficed.
As to any deal, the only way that will happen is if when Boris sells us out in return for little. In which case we would have been better staying in (which we currently always would have anyway).
FTFY.
That's fixed in the same way that repeatedly smashing something with your biggest hammer 'fixes' things :-\
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That's fixed in the same way that repeatedly smashing something with your biggest hammer 'fixes' things :-\
A hammer always fixes thins, one way or the other.
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That's fixed in the same way that repeatedly smashing something with your biggest hammer 'fixes' things :-\
A hammer always fixes thins, one way or the other.
Try it on your g key! ;D
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That's fixed in the same way that repeatedly smashing something with your biggest hammer 'fixes' things :-\
A hammer always fixes thins, one way or the other.
Yes. Hit yourself very hard on your big toe with your hammer and your cuts won't hurt any more ;D
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What a classic idea Tigs. Shame Sammy disappeared :(
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That's fixed in the same way that repeatedly smashing something with your biggest hammer 'fixes' things :-\
A hammer always fixes thins, one way or the other.
Try it on your g key! ;D
I hope that's not an euphemism :o
I don't remember reading about that particular approach in Fifty Shades of emulsion... :-\
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That's fixed in the same way that repeatedly smashing something with your biggest hammer 'fixes' things :-\
A hammer always fixes thins, one way or the other.
Try it on your g key! ;D
I hope that's not an euphemism :o
I don't remember reading about that particular approach in Fifty Shades of emulsion... :-\
It might make TB's eyes water a bit if he tried to get Sammy up there! :o ;D
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My gut feeling is that there will be a deal, and has always been. If there is it will be at the last possible minute, and most people wont be completely happy or unhappy about it.
I also have a gut feeling that the EU are going to compromise further than a lot of the naysayers think they will.
We shall soon see.
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By its very nature the concept of a deal will mean some unhappy people. Faragistas for example. Maybe Honfleur fishermen.
Pragmatism might win the day. Latest noises tonight aren’t very encouraging for a trade deal.
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Pragmatism will undoubtedly win the day. Except the UK hasn't been very pragmatic since 2016, and seems to have consistently and needlessly blundered from one bear-trap to another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubbSV5C9PXk
how much of this came true? (cf with the ivan rogers speech)
... before much of the serious work to look at where we wanted to land post exit had happened, we locked ourselves into a date certain for the invocation of Article 50.
That duly forfeited at a stroke any leverage over how that process would run. And it gave to the 27, who had, by the morning of June 24th, already set out their “no negotiation without (Article 50) notification” position, the first couple of goals of the match in the opening 5 minutes.
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Paused. Big boys going to talk Saturday afternoon.
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My take - both sides want to avoid no deal unless it can clearly be blamed on the other side (and the Internal Market/Finance Bill could put the blame on us). So possibly some wishy-washy deal might suddenly emerge that suits the EU more than the UK, but nobody entirely.
With less than a month to go, I can't help thinking the UK government has somehow mired itself into needless and potentially endless problems which there were ample opportunities to avoid.
Every country has the government it deserves and in a democracy people get the leaders they deserve.
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suits the EU more than the UK
That was always going to be the case, but the Farae Brainwashed Brigade could never see that, and then it became fact that we were going to et the best deal ever...
Every country has the government it deserves and in a democracy people get the leaders they deserve.
As I read that, all I could hear was the First Minister speaking. She's a strange one... ...fights to keep the union of the EU together, yet fits even harder to try to keep the union of the UK apart ;D
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My take - both sides want to avoid no deal unless it can clearly be blamed on the other side (and the Internal Market/Finance Bill could put the blame on us). So possibly some wishy-washy deal might suddenly emerge that suits the EU more than the UK, but nobody entirely.
With less than a month to go, I can't help thinking the UK government has somehow mired itself into needless and potentially endless problems which there were ample opportunities to avoid.
Every country has the government it deserves and in a democracy people get the leaders they deserve.
Well applying your assertion what follows doesn't reflect too well on Scotland , and I say that as a Scot.
Forum Members ,In this time of unprecedented chaos and in the midst of a world wide pandemic causing untold misery I give you the SNP Minister for Public Health ( on over £100 K / annum)...... ;D
https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1334214683717406720
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Isnt it strange that although we are an insignificant little rock off the coast of Europe, the reason the talks keep stalling is that the UK wont agree to sign a deal which means we have to abide by the rules set for us by the EU over trade, in order to prevent us from becoming more competitive than they consider healthy for their economic wellbeing going forward. ??? ::)
Apparently the "level playing field", is crucial and too important for them to back down from.
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Maybe the Muppet Barnier, had failed to see, that this little Island imports more from Europe than we export to them.
So it will cost the members of his little club, if he doesn't do a decent deal with us, which he won't, because then the other club members will want to leave and get that deal.
Basically we go with the good deal to suit trade, everyone else wants it and leaves, the Reich then collapse's again..
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They haven't been talking much about actual trade these last 10 months but about how much control the EU can retain over this insignificant little wet and windy speck in the North Atlantic or North Sea depending on how pessimistic you are feeling. ::)
For some reason they don't seem too keen to let us go off and do our own thing. :-X
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You can't reset something if it's unplugged ;D
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In a few years time the lack of fiscal union or indeed unity on rule of law coupled with the 750 billion Covid fund is going to be a serious problem for Brussels . Britain will do well being f that.
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TheBoy: yes, I'm not totally convinced by that either - there must be SNP supporters who would prefer to be out of the UK and the EU. And at the same time, the UK government has consistently opposed Scottish independence even when it's following a brexit policy.
I get that it's not entirely the same thing, but the basic question is whether being within or outside a territorial union is fundamentally better - in that sense, a brexit supporter should also support Scottish independence on principle, and a Scottish independence supporter should support brexit. But it doesn't look like that.
Aside from that, I think the UK/EU talks are going won't have much to do with independence ideology, more about cold, hard cash. The UK has more than a bit of history trying to join Europe, going back to Macmillan and Heath - they must have seen a net benefit, and had to overcome opposition to entry here and in Europe.
Which I think is becoming the key difficulty now. Boris and Co are aiming to leave but somehow hold onto the benefit, and the EU will obviously not allow that easily. I don't see any easy solutions and am left wondering A. what fudgey compromise we're going to end up with and B. whether going about it the way we have was ideal.
It might have been more prudent to push for change from within instead of from outside - we did that successfully before. But we've kind of managed to get ourselves between a rock and a hard place now. And left it very late to resolve.
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I don't see what the problem is , we tell Johnny Foreigner what we want and they give it to us , after all, isn't that what Nigel and Boris said would happen ? :y
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I don't see what the problem is , we tell Johnny Foreigner what we want and they give it to us , after all, isn't that what Nigel and Boris said would happen ? :y
Seems that the EU might not agree :D
Not that they seriously expected to...
WTO exists for a reason...basically 4 years trying to be bullied into agreeing with a series of proposals that are completely at odds with leaving the EU in the hope that staying in would seem more palatable than leaving. And the media and EU expect it to all be sorted on a cold, damp Saturday three weeks before an arbitrary date 11 months after we already left.
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I don't see what the problem is , we tell Johnny Foreigner what we want and they give it to us , after all, isn't that what Nigel and Boris said would happen ? :y
Seems that the EU might not agree :D
Not that they seriously expected to...
WTO exists for a reason...basically 4 years trying to be bullied into agreeing with a series of proposals that are completely at odds with leaving the EU in the hope that staying in would seem more palatable than leaving. And the media and EU expect it to all be sorted on a cold, damp Saturday three weeks before an arbitrary date 11 months after we already left.
You forget, the UK has been the ones chasing a deal. Because businesses know that can't compete in their biggest market with a 10% overhead... ...on top of a 10% overhead if they need to import raw materials.
But there's always Canada. So thats OK them.
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Obviously a deal is preferred but the EU won't agree just because... just as they look to be agreed, they throw another spanner in which completely alters the balance of the previous agreements.
So why waste time humouring all the posturing, could easily have spent the last four years sorting things like investment in farming and healthcare ::)
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I don't see what the problem is , we tell Johnny Foreigner what we want and they give it to us , after all, isn't that what Nigel and Boris said would happen ? :y
Seems that the EU might not agree :D
Not that they seriously expected to...
WTO exists for a reason...basically 4 years trying to be bullied into agreeing with a series of proposals that are completely at odds with leaving the EU in the hope that staying in would seem more palatable than leaving. And the media and EU expect it to all be sorted on a cold, damp Saturday three weeks before an arbitrary date 11 months after we already left.
And from the other viewpoint, four years of us insisting we get all the trade advantages without being a member or any other reciprocal offers.
Continually stating we'll walk away without any deal, doing so, and then going back to negotiations with the same demands is a stunningly poor 'tactic.'
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I think that's why it feels so frustrating - and worrying.
Frustrating, because the UK government could and absolutely should have seen this coming from the start and mitigated against it. Instead, we've been playing a largely reactive and time-wasting game for 4 years. And look where it's got/getting us.
Worrying, because it's reasonable to expect any UK government to (mostly) do its job competently and effectively. Not all the time, but they should be 100% on their game in a major issue like leaving the EU. I don't see that happening in brexit at all and it leads to obvious doubt over other things.
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Albs doesn't care about any of this as long as we can somehow stick it to the French. ;D
Oh.....and probably the Irish.
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Much of the blame for where we ended up lies at Treasonous Mays door, along with her appointed negotiator Olly Robbins. He and Mrs weak and wobbly took the whole Brexit process down a blind alley and it ended up one hell of a mess. The woman is a waste of skin and fresh air. Robbins told Verhofstadt that he wanted to become a Belgian citizen post Brexit, so that tells us all we need to know about her chief negotiator. ::)
My impression of the chief negotiator now (David Frost) is that he is pretty good and will get a worthwhile deal, if one is possibly available.
According to the press Barnier had to pause the talks because he had compromised as much as his remit allowed him to, which is why Boris and President Ursulla wotsername had to have a chat, and have now authorised the negotiators to start talking again tomorrow,
Whatever happens it will go right down to the wire. EU negotiations always have.
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Albs doesn't care about any of this as long as we can somehow stick it to the French. ;D
Oh.....and probably the Irish.
Should have nuked both of them a long time ago. :y ;D
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So Boris is going to Brussels in a last ditch attempt to seal a deal! ::)
Has he blinked? ???
Or will he bend Ursula over the desk and make her beg for mercy? :)
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The cynic in me suspects that Boris doesn't have a clue what he is doing and will try to gosh-crumbs-isn't-this-jolly a way through.
At the risk of stating the obvious, he isn't Margaret Thatcher.
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They can't seem to get their heads around the fact that we won't agree to being bound by their rules and conditions...
And we want our fish...
And it's not that we won't leave without a deal... After all, we LEFT in January ::)
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The cynic in me suspects that Boris doesn't have a clue what he is doing and will try to gosh-crumbs-isn't-this-jolly a way through.
At the risk of stating the obvious, he isn't Margaret Thatcher.
He couldn't negotiate money off a sofa at DFS in January.
His natural habitat is making a tit of himself in print or on TV, and is so stupid he doesn't realise he is the joke. As our not really elected representative, that expands to all of us.
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Three years of time for negotiation and it comes down to
“ Power of sweet reason”
“ Hope springs eternal”
The man is either a genius or a buffoon. ( I am being “very cordial” when I say that)
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I think we have to remember that Boris would like no deal. The venom he threw at the EU while he was campaigning to exit knew no bounds. I even think he wouldn't care if he lost his job as prime minister, his one aim will have been fulfilled. I think.
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I do hope something happens tonight, one way or the other.
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I do hope something happens tonight, one way or the other.
Whatever is decided, it should annoy the French. Annoying ze Germans would be a bonus.
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Just an idle thought.
In the event of “ no trade deal” will there be panic buying next day on a biblical scale as the media have painted lorry parks, stuff rotting etc etc while red tape is untied?
One good thing is Tesco have said they have been stock piling non perishables.
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Only if mainstream media insist on suggesting it to be the case. :-X
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Just an idle thought.
In the event of “ no trade deal” will there be panic buying next day on a biblical scale as the media have painted lorry parks, stuff rotting etc etc while red tape is untied?
One good thing is Tesco have said they have been stock piling non perishables.
I'm collecting old newspapers just in case. ;)
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Just an idle thought.
In the event of “ no trade deal” will there be panic buying next day on a biblical scale as the media have painted lorry parks, stuff rotting etc etc while red tape is untied?
One good thing is Tesco have said they have been stock piling non perishables.
My chest freezer is reasonably stocked but, in the long run, I'll eat owt.
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Just an idle thought.
In the event of “ no trade deal” will there be panic buying next day on a biblical scale as the media have painted lorry parks, stuff rotting etc etc while red tape is untied?
I'm in Kent, where many of the lorry parks are.
I've got a car and a cordless angle grinder :)
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Just an idle thought.
In the event of “ no trade deal” will there be panic buying next day on a biblical scale as the media have painted lorry parks, stuff rotting etc etc while red tape is untied?
I'm in Kent, where many of the lorry parks are.
I've got a car and a cordless angle grinder :)
What's your eBay handle? ;D
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Just an idle thought.
In the event of “ no trade deal” will there be panic buying next day on a biblical scale as the media have painted lorry parks, stuff rotting etc etc while red tape is untied?
I'm in Kent, where many of the lorry parks are.
I've got a car and a cordless angle grinder :)
Sorry Nick, Kent is the most anti-lorry council in England, you have the M20, which is used to stack trucks awaiting to board, it's normally because the French go on strike, or a train breaks down...
Manston Airfield was mooted as a clearance hub, stacking area, then council and NIMBYs said No.
Basically council are wanting Gov to sort the issues with all the freight that enters UKplc, but just want to shift the issue somewhere else,,, I think they forget, that the two largest carriers for freight are in their Garden..
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But there are already lorries parked all over the county at night. I could go to M2 J3(about 2 miles from here) and find several on the various roads off the roundabouts.
Medway and Maidstone Service's lorryparks are always full by late evening.
Most of the industrial estates reverberate at night to the sound of parked trucks and their fridges.
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I wonder what Ursula served up for dinner tonight? ???
Fish perhaps? :D
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Dinner is over.
No agreement.
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Could be high drama for a day or two, then more talks. Time will tell. :-\
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I wonder what Ursula served up for dinner tonight? ???
Fish perhaps? :D
Sprouts.
Obviously :D
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Could be high drama for a day or two, then more talks. Time will tell. :-\
I think they agreed on No Deal.
The next few days will see Barnier and Frost putting together some mini deals to reduce disruption as much as they can and the EU can have their council meeting to chew things over as well, although officially they will not be talking about BREXIT. ::)
No Deal will be announced on Sunday as they will not want to make such an announcement when the markets are open.
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It shouldn't affect the markets too much as it will categorically end any uncertainty. ;)
Inspite of everything this year, my SIPP is up nearly £3.5k (11%) over this time last year, and £12k since its lowest in March...
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It shouldn't affect the markets too much as it will categorically end any uncertainty. ;)
Inspite of everything this year, my SIPP is up nearly £3.5k (11%) over this time last year, and £12k since its lowest in March...
I wouldn't bet on that. Oh, wait.........
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It shouldn't affect the markets too much as it will categorically end any uncertainty. ;)
Inspite of everything this year, my SIPP is up nearly £3.5k (11%) over this time last year, and £12k since its lowest in March...
I wouldn't bet on that. Oh, wait.........
Well the FTSE 100 has gone up 5% since Nov 30th ::)
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It shouldn't affect the markets too much as it will categorically end any uncertainty. ;)
Inspite of everything this year, my SIPP is up nearly £3.5k (11%) over this time last year, and £12k since its lowest in March...
I wouldn't bet on that. Oh, wait.........
Well the FTSE 100 has gone up 5% since Nov 30th ::)
I know, but it was around 7,700 this time last year and is standing around 6,600 today, so around 14% down year on year. That's not to say it won't be back to where it was soon and, of course, you're in it for the long run.
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The company I work for is up approx. 30% this morning. I had an inkling of this last night. Should have bought some shares at opening this morning. Story of my life. ::)
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The company I work for is up approx. 30% this morning. I had an inkling of this last night. Should have bought some shares at opening this morning. Story of my life. ::)
Simple solution.
Knock up a working time machine.
Problem solved. :)
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They think it's all over...
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They think it's all over...
Unfortunately my predictions before the referendum have all been true.
It's over. In terms of we are F
U
C
K
Ed
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They think it's all over...
Unfortunately my predictions before the referendum have all been true.
It's over. In terms of we are F
U
C
K
Ed
Yep, an 'oven ready deal'
Check the gas is on, open the oven door and stick your our head in.
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Poor form announcing navy on standby. Far better just to roll them out on 1st Jan.
At least come Monday it will all be over.
Of course WTO will be tried for a while and then they will get together for more talks but with no end date they will go on for 79 years before getting an agreement.
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I must be the only one who doesn't care ;D
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I wouldnt say I dont care, but Im not particularly concerned or bothered. Things will be a bit panicky for a little while and then soon settle down again and we can worry / fret / argue, over something else.
I still wont be that surprised if they cobble together some sort of deal at the last minute either.
Either way, the sun will still rise on the 1st January, and the world will keep on turning.
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I wouldnt say I dont care, but Im not particularly concerned or bothered. Things will be a bit panicky for a little while and then soon settle down again and we can worry / fret / argue, over something else.
I still wont be that surprised if they cobble together some sort of deal at the last minute either.
Either way, the sun will still rise on the 1st January, and the world will keep on turning.
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Got to say I agree entirely with you, a lot of scare mongering going on but I honestly couldn't give a f**k.
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The Navy (or any of the armed forces for that matter) on standby on New Years Day? New Years Day is a Friday this/next year? It's a widely know fact that if the Russians want to invade then sometime after lunch on a Friday is their best bet.
On the other hand, Fishing & Fisheries are the responsibility of the Ministry of Agr, Food and Fisheries, not MOD. So perhaps it's a bean counter at MOD's idea that they can (over) charge MAFF for a bit of overtime. Getting enough sober Matlows to crew a Pedalo will be a bigger issue though.
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We'll get plenty of warning before they actually invade, all the traffic lights will go out.
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They think it's all over...
Unfortunately my predictions before the referendum have all been true.
It's over. In terms of we are F
U
C
K
Ed
On what grounds? If we fail it will be because all the naysayers have ground down the rest of us.
"It was over the moment they suggested it four years ago" argument is the sort of bullshit that guarantees failure.
Sure things are going to change, but if we approach it thinking that there's no point trying we deserve to fall flat on our arses, but if we seize the opportunity and embrace it, we will be guaranteed to succeed.
We left the EU almost a year ago, and you had over three years notice of that happening, so get your shit together and move forward with definite, positive steps.
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I wonder if later today when No Deal is announced will Ursula von der Leyen also announce her resignation because of her colossal and possibly catastrophic failure to agree a mutually beneficial trade deal with the UK. A deal which has been said should have been the easiest in history. ::)
I guess being unelected by and totally unaccountable to the people of the member states of the EU, that'll be no then... :-\
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That will depend on how Merkel chooses to pull the strings in the background. Its possible as Merkel apparently doesnt like her much.
She had her sent to Brussels because she was obviously a crook, and also a (much younger and more attractive) rival.
The Wail on Sunday claims that Merkel is sabotaging the chances of a deal from behind the curtains. I suppose from her point of view taking both Ursula and the UK down a peg or two at the same time, is a win win situation.
We shall see.
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I wonder if later today when No Deal is announced will Ursula von der Leyen also announce her resignation because of her colossal and possibly catastrophic failure to agree a mutually beneficial trade deal with the UK. A deal which has been said should have been the easiest in history. ::)
I guess being unelected by and totally unaccountable to the people of the member states of the EU, that'll be no then... :-\
No chance, she'll be hailed as an iron lady who didn't cave in to those pesky, superior Brits.
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I wonder if later today when No Deal is announced will Ursula von der Leyen also announce her resignation because of her colossal and possibly catastrophic failure to agree a mutually beneficial trade deal with the UK. A deal which has been said should have been the easiest in history. ::)
I guess being unelected by and totally unaccountable to the people of the member states of the EU, that'll be no then... :-\
And why would she do that?
Or are you still under some misapprehension that the EU would have rolled over and let us have our cake and eat it? Or that £350m a week is going to the NHS as per the bus?
Sorry to let you into a secret, the leavers lied. Knowingly. It was obvious at the time that the EU weren't going to agree with God Farage's wishes.
And as New POD says, its turned out exactly as predicted, and UK industry has lost its biggest market, so is pretty much donald ducked. Which obviously has huge knock-ons to the rest of the economy. This is being felt first in the retail industry, which never had time to recover from the 2008 crash before Brexit came along and finished it off. Passionate leave supporters could argue that batflu is a cause, but that hasn't even had any real impact to things yet - every retail business thats gone tits up was going tits up before this sniffle came along.
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We shall see. ::)
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Both sides have just announced they will "go the extra mile" and carry on talking after tonights deadline.
Just get it over with ffs. ::)
I suspect neither of them wants to be the one to take the blame for walking away.
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It's always the same with a break up
who gets the dog, sorting out which CD belong to who , what about the joint gifts ::)
the EU just needs to move on and find someone else to F*** and all will be well :D
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Both sides have just announced they will "go the extra mile" and carry on talking after tonights deadline.
Just get it over with ffs. ::)
I suspect neither of them wants to be the one to take the blame for walking away.
The difference is that it will affect the EU far less than us. And it's our idea.
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We shall see. ::)
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I wonder if later today when No Deal is announced will Ursula von der Leyen also announce her resignation because of her colossal and possibly catastrophic failure to agree a mutually beneficial trade deal with the UK. A deal which has been said should have been the easiest in history. ::)
I guess being unelected by and totally unaccountable to the people of the member states of the EU, that'll be no then... :-\
And why would she do that?
Or are you still under some misapprehension that the EU would have rolled over and let us have our cake and eat it? Or that £350m a week is going to the NHS as per the bus?
Sorry to let you into a secret, the leavers lied. Knowingly. It was obvious at the time that the EU weren't going to agree with God Farage's wishes.
And as New POD says, its turned out exactly as predicted, and UK industry has lost its biggest market, so is pretty much donald ducked. Which obviously has huge knock-ons to the rest of the economy. This is being felt first in the retail industry, which never had time to recover from the 2008 crash before Brexit came along and finished it off. Passionate leave supporters could argue that batflu is a cause, but that hasn't even had any real impact to things yet - every retail business thats gone tits up was going tits up before this sniffle came along.
You mistakenly believe that this is about the economy and trade, but if it was they'd have wrapped up a mutually beneficial deal at the end of June, the first deadline. ::) This is about politics, not economics and as Liam Fox said this should have been the easiest deal in history. It's worth noting that Liz Truss's Department for International Trade have signed over 50 FTA's so far which is unprecedented for any country. So much for the little speck in the North Sea and it shows what can be achieved between two friendly countries pursuing a common goal. :P It's also worth noting that Britain is not the first major economy that the EU has tried and failed to achieve an FTA with, the USA, India, the Gulf states...
While there's little point in rehashing the arguments of 2016, I can assure you that as soon as David Cameron announced the referendum, I knew how I was going to vote, and I'd be willing to bet my mortgages that the vast majority of leave voters did too. What was written on the side of a bus or what Nigel Farage came out with was pretty much irrelevant, because there was a deep seated uneasiness across the country that power was slipping away from our democratically elected parliament (well half of it..) to the unelected and unaccountable commissars in Brussels. That's all.
As to VDL and whether she should resign or not, surely the whole point of the EU is to make people's lives better, not worse? An FTA with the worlds 5/6th biggest economy on their doorstep who by and large follows the same principles should have been high on her list of priorities, and could have been achieved in a friendly and speedy manner. Instead they decided to go down the road of constraining the UK driven by a vindictive desire of punishment, so yes I think she should resign if there's no deal as it's a colossal failure for the EU and she is the leader. ::)
As you say, she won't. Why should she? :)
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Surely those that are calling for VDL to resign/be sacked should also be calling for Boris to resign/be sacked too?
I mean, it's a negotiation where the two sides appear to have failed to come to an agreement. Both sides have principles that they are unwilling to soften enough for there to be a meeting on some middle ground. Blaming this all on one side appears to be a "we want our cake and to eat it" argument. Why is Boris 'blameless' and it's all VDL's fault?
As for the 50 FTA's - the vast majority of these are simple extensions of pre-existing EU FTA's to include the UK in a post BREXIT world. We already had these FTA's as a result of EU membership, and the 'new' signings just mean they will continue once the UK is fully out of the EU.
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Surely those that are calling for VDL to resign/be sacked should also be calling for Boris to resign/be sacked too?
I mean, it's a negotiation where the two sides appear to have failed to come to an agreement. Both sides have principles that they are unwilling to soften enough for there to be a meeting on some middle ground. Blaming this all on one side appears to be a "we want our cake and to eat it" argument. Why is Boris 'blameless' and it's all VDL's fault.
As for the 50 FTA's - the vast majority of these are simple extensions of pre-existing EU FTA's to include the UK in a post BREXIT world. We already had these FTA's as a result of EU membership, and the 'new' signings just mean they will continue once the UK is fully out of the EU.
Ah yes, but Boris was elected to Get Brexit Done! So deal or no deal he will achieve what he promised, and at the end of the day although most leavers would like a mutually beneficial deal with the EU and to keep relations nice and friendly, the old mantra No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal still rings true. ;)
You're right about the 50 FTA's being mostly cut n paste jobs of existing EU FTA's, but and it's a big but, the nay sayers said that even this was an impossibility because we're just a little speck in the North Sea. :P As I understand it though some of the deals are different and more tailored to the two countries and others will be springboards for further talks to extend and improve current terms. Canada annd Singapore for example. :y
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Surely those that are calling for VDL to resign/be sacked should also be calling for Boris to resign/be sacked too?
I mean, it's a negotiation where the two sides appear to have failed to come to an agreement. Both sides have principles that they are unwilling to soften enough for there to be a meeting on some middle ground. Blaming this all on one side appears to be a "we want our cake and to eat it" argument. Why is Boris 'blameless' and it's all VDL's fault.
As for the 50 FTA's - the vast majority of these are simple extensions of pre-existing EU FTA's to include the UK in a post BREXIT world. We already had these FTA's as a result of EU membership, and the 'new' signings just mean they will continue once the UK is fully out of the EU.
Ah yes, but Boris was elected to Get Brexit Done! So deal or no deal he will achieve what he promised, and at the end of the day although most leavers would like a mutually beneficial deal with the EU and to keep relations nice and friendly, the old mantra No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal still rings true. ;)
The EU has also used the No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal mantra recently, and from their POV it means no-deal is preferable to compromising their Single Market ideals. Why would the EU member nations try to remove VDL when she is following the views of the majority of member states?
You're right about the 50 FTA's being mostly cut n paste jobs of existing EU FTA's, but and it's a big but, the nay sayers said that even this was an impossibility because we're just a little speck in the North Sea. :P As I understand it though some of the deals are different and more tailored to the two countries and others will be springboards for further talks to extend and improve current terms. Canada annd Singapore for example. :y
Yes there are some relatively minor tweaks in some cases. The real issue is that these FTA's only cover a small fraction of the UK's trade - I think I read somewhere that it's less than 20%. The FTA that matters the most is the one covering 45% of UK trade - the trade that goes to/from the EU. In effect we're throwing £100 out of the car window, and then celebrating that we've managed to recover £20.
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We were never going to get a deal from them, so I don't see why all the shocked surprise.
And that's got nothing to do with Boris, or the wet fish he took over from.
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The wet fish was offered a Canada style trade deal right at the start. She turned it down, and has never explained why afaik.
That may well have given the impression that the UK establishment werent going to properly leave, but wanted to appear to be leaving, which was the hallmark of her Premiership.
That impression still lingers in Brussels today imo. I honestly think that they believe its all bluff and the UK will give in at the end.
Macron said so today. I think it was a tweet, advising Barniers team to" not let up on applying the pressure. The Brits will fold".
I think Boris is smart enough a politician to know that if he caved in at this stage, he would be toast.
He would be torn to shreds and thrown on the scrapheap by the new year.
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The EU has also used the No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal mantra recently, and from their POV it means no-deal is preferable to compromising their Single Market ideals. Why would the EU member nations try to remove VDL when she is following the views of the majority of member states?
If that's the case then we should just call it quits and get on with it, but it seems to me that the EU are desperately trying to keep control over us with their so called fair competition level playing field demands that are far from fair or level. ::) And if there is no deal we'll see how popular the EU is on the continent when their seafood and lamb jumps in price. I'd wager that there will be discontent, as I don't think that the EU is as popular across the channel as British remainers/rejoiners seem to think. We'll see....
Anyway I didn't say that anyone is trying to get rid of VDL, just pointing out that in any other organisation the person responsible for such a failure would resign, be 'asked' to resign or simply sacked. VDL will sail on as if nothing untoward has happened! :)
Yes there are some relatively minor tweaks in some cases. The real issue is that these FTA's only cover a small fraction of the UK's trade - I think I read somewhere that it's less than 20%. The FTA that matters the most is the one covering 45% of UK trade - the trade that goes to/from the EU. In effect we're throwing £100 out of the car window, and then celebrating that we've managed to recover £20.
That's a fair point, but should we sign any deal just because of that? What the EU have in mind for us is that we apply EU laws, rules and regulations to our entire economy including future changes that may well be detrimental to the UK. That is patently absurd as the proportion of our GDP that is generated by trade with the EU is relatively small. About 10% I think.
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7% I believe. :y
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7% I believe. :y
They should have written that on the bus! ;D
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Surely those that are calling for VDL to resign/be sacked should also be calling for Boris to resign/be sacked too?
I mean, it's a negotiation where the two sides appear to have failed to come to an agreement. Both sides have principles that they are unwilling to soften enough for there to be a meeting on some middle ground. Blaming this all on one side appears to be a "we want our cake and to eat it" argument. Why is Boris 'blameless' and it's all VDL's fault?
As for the 50 FTA's - the vast majority of these are simple extensions of pre-existing EU FTA's to include the UK in a post BREXIT world. We already had these FTA's as a result of EU membership, and the 'new' signings just mean they will continue once the UK is fully out of the EU.
Now you're letting the truth get in the way of a good brainwashing. Thats not going to o down well around here ;D
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An FTA with the worlds 5/6th biggest economy on their doorstep
And a lot of that was due to being in the Common Market and its various rehashes.
The fact is, and has always been, we are relatively insignificant compared to the EU. We might be on a par with the individual countries that make up the EU. And the inability of the UK to get its (promised, by the Leave Brigade) cake and eat it is a simple reflection of that, no matter how gormless Boris and Co have been. Negotiation will never go in your favour when the other side holds all the aces. And trying to blame the other side for having the better hand and insisting they resign is beyond ridiculous.
And that is exactly why it has all turned out exactly as those not in cloud cuckoo land predicted. Or Project Fear, for those brainwashed by the silly tit Farage.
Obviously, the fact we could not get our systems working for the end of the transition period just shows that the useless baffoon really doesn't know his arse from his elbow. But it also shows how much this country is going to struggle, we have a long history of not being able to implement anything sadly.
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Has anyone ACTUALLY tried?
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If we are insigniificant why are they so fickin terrified of us being successful that they are utterly insistent that we follow all their rules on trade etc, to prevent us from being more competitive than them ?
It just doesnt add up Im afraid.
There are only two significant economies left in the EU, and they are both close to being in serious trouble.
Just watch the pressure mount up on Merkel from German industry (cars in particular) if we leave on WTO terms.
Edit. Its already happening.
https://britannianews.co.uk/2020/10/09/german-car-industry-cranks-up-the-pressure-on-merkel-to-tell-macron-to-drop-his-redlines-on-fisheries/
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EU popularity.
Well Spanish folk say. We have benefitted ( had so many handouts) and we have trade. When I say wait till you are paying East European countries and buying their products, they just laugh and say bring it on. They wont be laughing so much when farming subsidies are reduced.
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We were never going to get a deal from them, so I don't see why all the shocked surprise.
And that's got nothing to do with Boris, or the wet fish he took over from.
But they were both dependent on the fantasists who were vocal about a pro=British deal being easy, and to the hardliners who won't give an inch. On top of that, any PM who had stood up in parliament after the referendum and said nobody is getting a deal worth having would have been laughed out of power.
Of course, dragging the whole debacle out for four years is a terrible policy too.
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I didn't consider a trade deal, or negotiations, or anything other than leaving. I'm still happy :)
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Regardless of the EUs feelings, we seem to be arranging trade deals readily enough with every one else...
Obviously that's positive, so no one will bother to mention it :-X
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I don't like being told what to do in Asda, so I'm off to stockpile tomorrow......before everyone else does ;D
Britons told not to stockpile food ahead of January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55293595
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I didn't consider a trade deal, or negotiations, or anything other than leaving. I'm still happy :)
+1. the only thing on the ballot paper was IN or OUT.
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I didn't consider a trade deal, or negotiations, or anything other than leaving. I'm still happy :)
+1. the only thing on the ballot paper was IN or OUT.
Yes, Ronny, it didn't say 'In' 'Out' or 'Shake it all about'. ;D
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I don't like being told what to do in Asda, so I'm off to stockpile tomorrow......before everyone else does ;D
Britons told not to stockpile food ahead of January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55293595
Also, do you think that the partner on a Head Teacher should be shopping in ASDA. ::) Waitrose at least i would have thought. ;)
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I don't like being told what to do in Asda, so I'm off to stockpile tomorrow......before everyone else does ;D
Britons told not to stockpile food ahead of January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55293595
Also, do you think that the partner on a Head Teacher should be shopping in ASDA. ::) Waitrose at least i would have thought. ;)
I sometimes do Aldi, is that ok? ;D
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In Aldi, blue rinsed old birds use their own M&S carrier bags, so the neighbours won't know ;D
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I went into Lidl once :D
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Me too. Went in for a loaf, came out with a bottle jack and a packet of cable ties. ;D
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I don't like being told what to do in Asda, so I'm off to stockpile tomorrow......before everyone else does ;D
Britons told not to stockpile food ahead of January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55293595
Also, do you think that the partner on a Head Teacher should be shopping in ASDA. ::) Waitrose at least i would have thought. ;)
I sometimes do Aldi, is that ok? ;D
Passable i suppose. :-\ :)
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I don't like being told what to do in Asda, so I'm off to stockpile tomorrow......before everyone else does ;D
Britons told not to stockpile food ahead of January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55293595
Also, do you think that the partner on a Head Teacher should be shopping in ASDA. ::) Waitrose at least i would have thought. ;)
I sometimes do Aldi, is that ok? ;D
Passable i suppose. :-\ :)
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Oh how awful for all of you peasants having to go into shops , we have servants who deliver ours..😄
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I don't like being told what to do in Asda, so I'm off to stockpile tomorrow......before everyone else does ;D
Britons told not to stockpile food ahead of January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55293595
Also, do you think that the partner on a Head Teacher should be shopping in ASDA. ::) Waitrose at least i would have thought. ;)
I sometimes do Aldi, is that ok? ;D
Passable i suppose. :-\ :)
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Oh how awful for all of you peasants having to go into shops , we have servants who deliver ours..😄
Blimey you folk from Lincolnshire are so posh! :P
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Regardless of the EUs feelings, we seem to be arranging trade deals readily enough with every one else...
Obviously that's positive, so no one will bother to mention it :-X
Not really, just as LC says, getting a small number of the same deals we had pre leaving. But the EU is massively our biggest trading partner, so even if we to a free trade deal* with every non EU country in the world, we have still successfully pointed a 12 bore into our foot and pulled the trigger.
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I didn't consider a trade deal, or negotiations, or anything other than leaving. I'm still happy :)
I did a poll at work at the time of the referendum, and the most common reasons for those planning on voting leave were to stop illegal immigration (!! WTF?), and paying that £350m a week into the NHS.
Though maybe thats the south Hertfordshire middle class lot ;D
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Regardless of the EUs feelings, we seem to be arranging trade deals readily enough with every one else...
Obviously that's positive, so no one will bother to mention it :-X
Not really, just as LC says, getting a small number of the same deals we had pre leaving. But the EU is massively our biggest trading partner, so even if we to a free trade deal* with every non EU country in the world, we have still successfully pointed a 12 bore into our foot and pulled the trigger.
Actually the UK has signed 102 trade deals and preferential trading arrangements with countries around the world, which I think is pretty impressive really even if most of them are cut and paste jobs. :)
Especially since the nay sayers like you said it couldn't be done! :P
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^^^ wot e sed... :D
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Oh... and that's deals and arrangements with 102 countries around the world, not 102 deals and arrangements with a small number of countries. :P ;D
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Oh... and that's deals and arrangements with 102 countries around the world, not 102 deals and arrangements with a small number of countries. :P ;D
So, a spot of man maths... 193 countries in the world...
Less 27 EU states is 166... Less the five Frenchist overseas territories is 161... Less 8 of the 9 countries that form China is 153... Less Antartica is 152... Less 13 British Overseas territories is 139... Less 3 Portuguese overseas territories is 136... Less 4 Spanish Overseas Territories is 132.
So what you're basically saying is that there are 30 countries that we don't have some sort of formal trade arrangement with?
That's really depressing news, I can't think why it hasn't been mentioned before ::)
Edited to correct my appaling man maths... It's actually worse... It's only 30 countries ;D
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Meanwhile, back in the real world, those 102 deals are because the Cornish Taliban and the Welsh Tafia teamed up to trade Cornish pasties and Wooden Dragon Figurestm for smelly cheese, prancing bull figurines, lederhosen etc.