Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Doctor Gollum on 07 November 2021, 23:47:28
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Verstappen and Hamilton both finished.
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Verstappen and Hamilton both finished.
I think that the boy wonder may prove too hot for an ageing Hamilton to deal with.
Is Max better than Hamilton was when he was 23?......I don't know the answer to this.
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I didn't support calls for Bottas to be replaced after the summer break, but I'm wondering if I was wrong. IMV Bottas showed a complete lack of racecraft here, and let the Merc team down badly. How the hell can you start from pole, and end up last facing the wrong way before you've even got round turn 1.
From the on car footage it's obvious he braked at least 10m before Hamilton, and 20m before Verstappen. Ultimatley braking early caused Ricciado to clip him and spin him round. Whilst I accept that was Ricciado was to blame, it doesn't happen unless you put yourself in a position for it to happen. The racecraft way when you are level with cars either side of you is to keep in a straight line, keep your foot in and brake as late as you dare into turn 1. Don't panic and brake early. The only 'rule' is don't hit your team mate - the stewards will accept you running wide in turn 1 to avoid a collision.
And then at the end of the race it took him 2 sets of softs to set fastest lap.
As it played out, I don't think there was any way for Hamilton to win this one. If Max hadn't got past at the start, he'd have had enough pace for the undercut to work at the first pit stop. I don't think an on track overtake would have been required. The only way for Hamilton to win would have been fortunate safety car timing during the pit stop windows.
Can't see how Hamilton can win the WDC now without a DNF for Max. 19 points ahead, 4 races to go and Red Bull hot favorites in Brazil. Hamilton needs to win all 4, and hope Max finishes lower than 2nd in one of those races. The WCC may also be gone for Merc unless Bottas can buck his act up and beat Perez in the remaining races.
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The Red Bull is the faster car, by a long way at some tracks. Its not about the drivers unfortunately.
Verstappen has been in F1 for 6 years now. Hamilton had done a lot more after he had ben around for 6 years.
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I actually wondered if Bottas acted deliberately yesterday. He left the door wide open for Verstappen on his left and then braked so early Riciardo was caught by surprise and hit him up the rear. Not something you would normally expect from Riciardo .
I agree that its now Verstappens / Red Bull / Adrian Neweys, title to lose.
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The Red Bull is the faster car, by a long way at some tracks. Its not about the drivers unfortunately.
Verstappen has been in F1 for 6 years now. Hamilton had done a lot more after he had ben around for 6 years.
I would like to see Hamilton race Max in exactly the same car with exactly the same fuel load and exactly the same tyres. Otherwise it is just pure speculation.
Over 20 different circuits I'm not sure who would come out on top. If they were both 23 my money would be on Hamilton. With Hamilton now 36 or 37, I reckon Max would win out.
Unfortunately we will never know. :-\
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I actually wondered if Bottas acted deliberately yesterday. He left the door wide open for Verstappen on his left and then braked so early Riciardo was caught by surprise and hit him up the rear. Not something you would normally expect from Riciardo .
I agree that its now Verstappens / Red Bull / Adrian Neweys, title to lose.
Bottas is merely going through the motions.
Win or lose his wages will be huge. ::)
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Why are you talking about a GP that happened last month?
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Why are you talking about a GP that happened last month?
DG started it Sir. :D
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Good point. I assumed we were talking about yesterday. ;D
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Why are you talking about a GP that happened last month?
DG started it Sir. :D
Doesn't he always? ::)
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Good point. I assumed we were talking about yesterday. ;D
As did I. :-[
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Why are you talking about a GP that happened last month?
DG started it Sir. :D
Doesn't he always? ::)
At school the teachers would always say that I started it. ::)
Most of the time they were right. ;D
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Why are you talking about a GP that happened last month?
DG started it Sir. :D
Doesn't he always? ::)
At school the teachers would always say that I started it. ::)
Most of the time they were right. ;D
I think you may have mentioned that before.
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Why are you talking about a GP that happened last month?
DG started it Sir. :D
Doesn't he always? ::)
At school the teachers would always say that I started it. ::)
Most of the time they were right. ;D
I think you may have mentioned that before.
The teachers picked on me. 8)
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Why are you talking about a GP that happened last month?
DG started it Sir. :D
Doesn't he always? ::)
At school the teachers would always say that I started it. ::)
Most of the time they were right. ;D
I think you may have mentioned that before.
The teachers picked on me. 8)
Well, there has to be some reason why you turned out the way you did. Maybe that's it :-\
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Why are you talking about a GP that happened last month?
DG started it Sir. :D
Doesn't he always? ::)
At school the teachers would always say that I started it. ::)
Most of the time they were right. ;D
I think you may have mentioned that before.
The teachers picked on me. 8)
Well, there has to be some reason why you turned out the way you did. Maybe that's it :-\
As a scouser I feel sure these very same words can be applied to you. :D ;)
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I was watching the USGP whilst having a late dinner at a very restaurant in Meloneras.
Couldn't tell you if it were live or not* :D
Apparently it wasn't ;D
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I was watching the USGP whilst having a late dinner at a very restaurant in Meloneras.
Very late. In-fact 7 days late. 8)
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I was watching the USGP whilst having a late dinner at a very restaurant in Meloneras.
Very late. In-fact 7 days late. 8)
Close. Well, not really, try 14 ;D
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Not at all I wanted dinner yesterday and the kitchen was still open, so perfectly timed infact ;)
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Gasly and Norris drove good races, Bottas was well Bottas. Hamilton did well to finish second. A better driver than Perez could have finished second. Max drove a good race.
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I've been trying to educate Albs for ages, it's the car you see. Faster car equals winning race.
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I've been trying to educate Albs for ages, it's the car you see. Faster car equals winning race.
Common sense will never prevail... It's in the water, sea*
*water=sea but sounds like 'see' which is what I meant... But you have to explain everything, because some people don't understand written sacrasm ::)
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I've been trying to educate Albs for ages, it's the car you see. Faster car equals winning race.
Common sense will never prevail... It's in the water, sea*
*water=sea but sounds like 'see' which is what I meant... But you have to explain everything, because some people don't understand written sacrasm ::)
Dear me. Have you overdosed? ;D
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Anyhoo, dinner was very nice... Smoked Salmon on melba toast to start, followed by a bowl of pasta with garlic fried King prawns and avocado in a tomato and cream sauce.
Oppsing luverly it was. And Perez seemed really happy too :D
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Anyhoo, dinner was very nice... Smoked Salmon on melba toast to start, followed by a bowl of pasta with garlic fried King prawns and avocado in a tomato and cream sauce.
Oppsing luverly it was. And Perez seemed really happy too :D
When you come home from your amazing holiday, don't start calling your tea your dinner. Yer mam will think you've been somewhere posh ;D
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It's got at least two stars more than home, but I do miss the Tibetan Terrorist.
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Anyhoo, dinner was very nice... Smoked Salmon on melba toast to start, followed by a bowl of pasta with garlic fried King prawns and avocado in a tomato and cream sauce.
Oppsing luverly it was. And Perez seemed really happy too :D
When you come home from your amazing holiday, don't start calling your tea your dinner. Yer mam will think you've been somewhere posh ;D
Breakfast
Lunch
Dinner
Mother.
Hope this helps. :)
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I've been trying to educate Albs for ages, it's the car you see. Faster car equals winning race.
It can be either or both. A great driver can beat a not so great driver whose car is faster, up to a point.
The Red Bull was half a second a lap faster in Mexico, and theres not much anyone can do about that, no matter how great they are.
I also think Mercedes as a team are cracking under the pressure to a degree. They have made quite a few strategy and pit stop mistakes over the season.
Its been a long time since they faced really close competition over the course of a whole season and I think they are struggling with that.
If they cant overturn the Red Bull advantage by the next race Hamilton wont stand a chance of winning the chamionship.
It doesnt help that Red Bull now have two drivers up at the front and Bottas looks more ridiculous with every race weekend.
For me, its all a bit irrelevant, as the sport I used to love doesnt really exist any more.
Theres very little good that I can find to say about it. It has disappeared up its own arse.
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I've been trying to educate Albs for ages, it's the car you see. Faster car equals winning race.
It can be either or both. A great driver can beat a not so great driver whose car is faster, up to a point.
The Red Bull was half a second a lap faster in Mexico, and theres not much anyone can do about that, no matter how great they are.
I also think Mercedes as a team are cracking under the pressure to a degree. They have made quite a few strategy and pit stop mistakes over the season.
Its been a long time since they faced really close competition over the course of a whole season and I think they are struggling with that.
If they cant overturn the Red Bull advantage by the next race Hamilton wont stand a chance of winning the chamionship.
It doesnt help that Red Bull now have two drivers up at the front and Bottas looks more ridiculous with every race weekend.
For me, its all a bit irrelevant, as the sport I used to love doesnt really exist any more.
Theres very little good that I can find to say about it. It has disappeared up its own arse.
I'm hoping the new cars next year will improve the racing wheel to wheel :y
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I've been trying to educate Albs for ages, it's the car you see. Faster car equals winning race.
It can be either or both. A great driver can beat a not so great driver whose car is faster, up to a point.
The Red Bull was half a second a lap faster in Mexico, and theres not much anyone can do about that, no matter how great they are.
I also think Mercedes as a team are cracking under the pressure to a degree. They have made quite a few strategy and pit stop mistakes over the season.
Its been a long time since they faced really close competition over the course of a whole season and I think they are struggling with that.
If they cant overturn the Red Bull advantage by the next race Hamilton wont stand a chance of winning the chamionship.
It doesnt help that Red Bull now have two drivers up at the front and Bottas looks more ridiculous with every race weekend.
For me, its all a bit irrelevant, as the sport I used to love doesnt really exist any more.
Theres very little good that I can find to say about it. It has disappeared up its own arse.
I'm hoping the new cars next year will improve the racing wheel to wheel :y
I can remember watching RD 350 production racing.
A group of deranged nutters all riding exactly the same production Yamaha RD 350's.
It was great to watch and always extremely close.
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https://youtu.be/pgGz00VTKgQ (https://youtu.be/pgGz00VTKgQ)
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James Hunt was always an advocate of having identical cars in F1 to allow the best drivers to win.
Something I would love to see. :y
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Be just like Scalectrix :D
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Be just like Scalectrix :D
I has a 'Monte' Mini with mine. Red with a white roof.
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Hamilton has a 5 place grid penalty for this race for another engine change.
Worse than that, it looks like his rear wing has been found to be slightly outside of the regs, so he may be sent to the back of the grid.
Verstappen has been called before the stewards after being seen "touching" the rear wing of Hamiltons car while it was in parc ferme.
Any contact with cars in parc ferme is strictly forbidden, so who knows what will happen to him. A fine maybe ?
It all seems to be getting a bit silly. ::)
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Hamilton excluded from qualifying so will start at the back. Almost certainly his championship over then. :(
Verstappen fined 50 grand for touching Hamiltons car in parc ferme. ::)
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As with all elite sport now, it's all about the money.
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Here we go. The sprint race starts shortly, with Hamilton starting at the back. Could be interesting.
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Hamilton is as awesome as he ever was. He has lost nothing. He could win the race tomorrow. 8) :)
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He was absolutely phenomenal :o :y
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Indeed. It turns out that the reason he had to start at the back was because one side of his rear wing was measured at 0.2mm outside the 85mm required by the regs.
Probably caused by something not being tightened properly or similar allowing it to move slightly. Previous incidents like that have resulted in the team being allowed to fix the issue, but not this time for some reason.
When Red Bull were found to have a rear wing design that flexed more than it was allowed to earlier this year, they were allowed three races to redesign it to comply with the rules.
I think I might smell a rat. :(
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Spice boy openly accused Mercedes of cheating live on tv after the race. He said that laws of physics tell us that a legal car with that engine and a rear wing that size cant be that fast. We know why it is that fast, but the FIA need to police these things.
I hope he can either prove it, or gets sued into bankruptcy. ::)
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Good race :y
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Certainly was. Vintage Hamilton, and Verstappen being the filthy dirty arrogant little shit we know he is. This is why he will never be a great to me, no matter how much natural speed he has.
Hamilton and Mercedes are angry, and feel their backs are against the wall. Seems to have really spurred them on to prove a point. 8)
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Hamilton was on fire today
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Watching the pace of team mates is always interesting. Bottas and Perez just dont cut it. I cannot wait to see how Russell squares up on pace and more importantly racecraft.
We saw plenty of that from Hamilton in Brazil. There cannot be many detractors out there still unconvinced.
No one wants to see a race decided by stewards but Max cannot continue running people off the track to avoid being overtaken. It will end badly one day. Maybe offending drivers should be sent on a “ course” - a bit like the UK one for speeding. Maybe the stewards could attend too.
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Watching the pace of team mates is always interesting. Bottas and Perez just dont cut it. I cannot wait to see how Russell squares up on pace and more importantly racecraft.
We saw plenty of that from Hamilton in Brazil. There cannot be many detractors out there still unconvinced.
This. The true greats know how far they can push the rules. Bottas doesn't and always seems to err on the side of caution. On any one lap he can put in a performance to match most drivers, but over a race distance he lacks the racecraft to extract the best overall result, either for himself or the team. I'll reserve judgement on Russel till he's had a couple of races next season though.
No one wants to see a race decided by stewards but Max cannot continue running people off the track to avoid being overtaken. It will end badly one day. Maybe offending drivers should be sent on a “ course” - a bit like the UK one for speeding. Maybe the stewards could attend too.
I don't see it like that. Max did exactly what I was saying Bottas should have done in the last race to Max. Ultimatley I think all the recent greats would have done the same - Hamilton, Alonzo, Schumacher, Prost, Senna and Mansell. Pretty sure Hamilton knew what was going to happen too, and realised that unless he had clear air infront of Max then he was going to have to run wide.
Now I fully accept that if there had been a wall there (like Monaco or Montreal), or a gravel trap, then both drivers would have been out. But they both knew there wasn't, and both are prepared to push the rules to breaking point in order to win. That's what makes a champion, and why Bottas won't be one.
If anything it shows a problem with the rules, and I agree with what Toto said in the post race interview with Ch4. Basically either shred the track limits rules, or enforce them rigidly with no leniency for anything. Either way, if the top drivers believe the rules won't be enforced, then they will start to explore the limits of what will be enforced. It's in their DNA.
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Surely a true champion would seek to win within the rules :-X
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Surely a true champion would seek to win within the rules :-X
It is/was within the rules, at least according to the stewards.
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There was one point in the race when Bottas bottled out of of a two car, one space battle. If he'd held his nerve then probably both would have gone off. Should have taken it for the team.
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If Bottas had been a great driver he would have made the overtake stick and could have won the race. Proves my point about him just being a number 2 driver.
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If Bottas had been a great driver he would have made the overtake stick and could have won the race. Proves my point about him just being a number 2 driver.
Even without being a great driver, he could have made Spice Boy's head explode ;D
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If Martin Brundle gets his tongue any further up Spiceboys arse he'll likely disappear, it was killing him to have to praise Hamilton yesterday.
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Forcing another driver off the track is against the rules and Max should have been given a penalty for it.
He is an arrogant dangerous little thug (which runs in the family) and is going to hurt someone if everyone keeps indulging him.
If Hamilton had held his line as he was entitled to do, we would have had another high speed crash between the two.
Norris was penalised for doing very similar to Checa earlier in the season. We need consistency from the FIA.
After the events of this weekend it seems the FIA have switched their long standing support for Ferrari to Red Bull.
They didnt review onboard footage from the Red Bull to see what he did with the steerin before announcing" no further action."
Interestingly, this footage seems to have disappeared into the ether, as no-one can find it to form a conclusive view. ::)
I dont believe Hamilton would have done the same if the roles were reversed. He is the cleanest driver I have ever seen.
Max is definitely from the Schumacher school of race driving, and I hoped for the sake of the sport we would never see the like of Schumacher again.
There is a fine line between "let them race", and no sporting ethics. Verstappen is way past the wrong side of that line. As he has shown time and time again.
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Cleanest driver????
I understand Hamilton is one of yours but c'mon, some objectivity??
I guess you was sleeping during first couple of rounds at Silverstone, for example..
Don't get me wrong, Max is what he is, but saying things like that is just childish.
Hamilton has got much more then he's talent or working ethics could get him in some other teams, such as Mclaren with MIka, or Ferrari with Nikki or Shumaher.
Not to mention Senna. Thay all had there ''dirty'' plays in their times, but that' racing. It is not valleybal.
Most of Hamiltons wins are based on having the fastest car, and just being lucky. We could see that last year. I'm sad that Bottas has no self respect to show that many of the current drivers could have ruffly the same results in that Mercedes.
I really don't like Max, I am a Ferrari fan, but in this case, I hope he'll get the title, cause Lewis got much more than he deserved.
As for the politics part, it's all about the money. Best possible way to see who is the best is to make all cars the same, but we all know that will never happen...
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Hence my comment about how team mates cmpare.
Norris Ricciardo, Leclerc Sainz. And so on. Pretty evenly matched.
Bottas can put in fast qualfying - a technical lap but when it comes to racecraft it is like he loses concentration. The race was Bottas ‘s for the taking.
Same with Max and Perez. Perez just cannot match Verstappen.
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Your probably right about Perez, but he would never be allowed to beat Verstappen if he was able to.
The whole team is built around the wonderboy. Riciardo saw it coming and got out.
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Cleanest driver????
I understand Hamilton is one of yours but c'mon, some objectivity??
I guess you was sleeping during first couple of rounds at Silverstone, for example..
Don't get me wrong, Max is what he is, but saying things like that is just childish.
Hamilton has got much more then he's talent or working ethics could get him in some other teams, such as Mclaren with MIka, or Ferrari with Nikki or Shumaher.
Not to mention Senna. Thay all had there ''dirty'' plays in their times, but that' racing. It is not valleybal.
Most of Hamiltons wins are based on having the fastest car, and just being lucky. We could see that last year. I'm sad that Bottas has no self respect to show that many of the current drivers could have ruffly the same results in that Mercedes.
I really don't like Max, I am a Ferrari fan, but in this case, I hope he'll get the title, cause Lewis got much more than he deserved.
As for the politics part, it's all about the money. Best possible way to see who is the best is to make all cars the same, but we all know that will never happen...
See my reply #38. ;)
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The on board footage from Verstappens car has finally surfaced.
Contrary to what was expected - him opening the steering - he did something else.
He didnt actually steer into the corner, intending to go around the corner in the first place. He knew Hamilton was in the process of coming past, so didnt attempt to make the corner, but steered his car off the circuit.
He obviously knew this would stop Hamilton from overtaking, and hoped his usual tactic "lift off or we crash", would keep him in the lead.
Hamilton was wise / experienced enough to follow him off the circuit, and lose as little time as possible.
Let them race hard on the track, I absolutely agree with. Pushing people off the track is dirty driving.
The incident is being reviewed (today I think) at Mercedes request, and hopefully he will get either a retrospective penalty, or a grid penalty for this weekend.
He has to be made to understand that the rules apply to him the same as everyone else.
No-one made Schumacher understand it, and forever damaged F1 for the worse as a result. Hopefully they will know better now.