Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 10 November 2021, 13:55:18
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Putting aside the utter ridiculousness of this scheme and waste of taxpayer money my question is.... are these new crossings legitimate?
More and more are springing up with each passing day....literally all the colours of the rainbow.
There appears to be no mention of such folly in The Highway Code. Government road and transport documentation seem to suggest that all crossings must adhere to strict rules and regulations.......and I'm far from sure that these do.
Are motorists supposed to stop for them, or ignore them, believing they are just 'pavement art' implemented primarily by councils with more money than sense.
Many motorists will have no idea what they are, or their purpose, so how long will it be before a child steps off the pavement believing he is safe to cross and.....splat. ::)
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/trans-pride-crossing-camden-london/ (https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/trans-pride-crossing-camden-london/)
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It's a pedestrian crossing painted a different colour.
Anyone who is run over on one, or a traditional one, by not checking the traffic first is no loss
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It's a pedestrian crossing painted a different colour.
Anyone who is run over on one, or a traditional one, by not checking the traffic first is no loss
So there are no rules and regulations then? I doubt that.
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If we have a crossing designed to virtue signal trans inclusion then why stop there?
How about.....
A crossing designed to virtue signal lesbian Inclusion
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of people with mental health problems
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of people who entered the country illegally
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of teenage single mothers
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of children with downs syndrome
The list is literally endless which is why we shouldn't start in the first place.
A crossing is a place for ALL people to cross safely and should not become a left wing political football. :(
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Your whining is the only thing that's endless.
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Your whining is the only thing that's endless.
How is it possible for a scouser to mention whining and keep a straight face.
Scousers invented whining. ;D ;D Whining didn't exist before scousers evolved. ::)
My point was primarily about the legality, cost, and safety aspects.
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It's a pedestrian crossing painted a different colour.
Anyone who is run over on one, or a traditional one, by not checking the traffic first is no loss
You may not think this if they were your son or daughter.
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Your whining is the only thing that's endless.
How is it possible for a scouser to mention whining and keep a straight face.
Scousers invented whining. ;D ;D Whining didn't exist before scousers evolved. ::)
My point was primarily about the legality, cost, and safety aspects.
Of course it was. It just happened to be connected to your obsession.
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Your whining is the only thing that's endless.
How is it possible for a scouser to mention whining and keep a straight face.
Scousers invented whining. ;D ;D Whining didn't exist before scousers evolved. ::)
My point was primarily about the legality, cost, and safety aspects.
Of course it was. It just happened to be connected to your obsession.
I have two obsessions......women and women (for clarity I refer to the cervix variant)
They have caused me no end of problems over the years. If it were not for women I'd be a rich man by now. :-\ :-\
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If we have a crossing designed to virtue signal trans inclusion then why stop there?
How about.....
A crossing designed to virtue signal lesbian Inclusion
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of people with mental health problems
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of people who entered the country illegally
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of teenage single mothers
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of children with downs syndrome
The list is literally endless which is why we shouldn't start in the first place.
A crossing is a place for ALL people to cross safely and should not become a left wing political football. :(
Can you tell us what colours each type of crossing should be please? ???
Just so we know who and what we are splatting! ;D
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If we have a crossing designed to virtue signal trans inclusion then why stop there?
How about.....
A crossing designed to virtue signal lesbian Inclusion
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of people with mental health problems
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of people who entered the country illegally
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of teenage single mothers
A crossing designed to virtue signal the inclusion of children with downs syndrome
The list is literally endless which is why we shouldn't start in the first place.
A crossing is a place for ALL people to cross safely and should not become a left wing political football. :(
Can you tell us what colours each type of crossing should be please? ???
Just so we know who and what we are splitting! ;D
The only crossings I stop at are painted black and white and available for all to use. No need for anything else. :)
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Your whining is the only thing that's endless.
How is it possible for a scouser to mention whining and keep a straight face.
Scousers invented whining. ;D ;D Whining didn't exist before scousers evolved. ::)
My point was primarily about the legality, cost, and safety aspects.
Of course it was. It just happened to be connected to your obsession.
Absolutely right, and yet another example of Opti’s continual campaigning on these subjects, which has become boring and pointless. It is now just whingeing :P ::)
As for the subject in hand and the point that he is trying hard to make ; if you look at the photo with an objective eye Opti you will see that this crossing is simply painted were normally there would just be black tarmac as it is a crossing controlled by the main traffic lights, just as normal, with, if you look properly, “Look Both Ways” wording at the beginning of the where pedestrians walk. The camera has not completely captured it, but I am sure the same wording will be painted at the other end of this crossing. The photo though seems to have been reversed so the writing is back to front. A mirror image.
As normal legal rules and regulations apply to such crossings, the painted zone makes no difference so the crossing IS completely legal. It is just, yet again, you trying to make something again out of nothing to aid your crusade. :P
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Your whining is the only thing that's endless.
How is it possible for a scouser to mention whining and keep a straight face.
Scousers invented whining. ;D ;D Whining didn't exist before scousers evolved. ::)
My point was primarily about the legality, cost, and safety aspects.
Of course it was. It just happened to be connected to your obsession.
Absolutely right, and yet another example of Opti’s continual campaigning on these subjects, which has become boring and pointless. It is now just whingeing :P ::)
As for the subject in hand and the point that he is trying hard to make ; if you look at the photo with an objective eye Opti you will see that this crossing is simply painted were normally there would just be black tarmac as it is a crossing controlled by the main traffic lights, just as normal, with, if you look properly, “Look Right” wording at the beginning of the where pedestrians walk. The camera has not captured it, but I am sure the same wording will be painted at the other end of this crossing.
As normal legal rules and regulations apply to such crossings, the painted zone makes no difference so the crossing IS completely legal. It is just, yet again, you trying to make something again out of nothing to aid your crusade. :P
Danny Beales the Camden box ticker says that the addition of a 'trans crossing' is to show inclusion to the LGBT community
I have to apologise Lizzie, I had absolutely no idea that the LGBT community are 'prohibited and excluded' from using the same crossings as the other 99.9% of society. ::) ::) ::)
I can now see why this crossing was deemed necessary....otherwise there is no way for the LGBT community to cross the cross safely.
Right then, all sorted.....who is the next tiny minority to get their own personal crossing paid for by the taxpayer? :-X :-\
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It's a pedestrian crossing painted a different colour.
Anyone who is run over on one, or a traditional one, by not checking the traffic first is no loss
You may not think this if they were your son or daughter.
But children are replaceable. By about 250 every minute.
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......and Lizzie, you didn't mention the safety aspect with drivers ( especially older drivers) being unfamiliar with this woke pavement art.
It is simply 'not required'
Spend the money on more rozzers or homeless people.
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It's a pedestrian crossing painted a different colour.
Anyone who is run over on one, or a traditional one, by not checking the traffic first is no loss
You may not think this if they were your son or daughter.
But children are replaceable. By about 250 every minute.
You have a swinging brick for a heart, Nick. ::)
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As normal legal rules and regulations apply to such crossings, the painted zone makes no difference so the crossing IS completely legal. It is just, yet again, you trying to make something again out of nothing to aid your crusade. :P
They don't though, as technically they don't exist. I actually agree with Opti that you can't suddenly start doing random things and expect drivers to be mind readers. We have orange strips of tarmac on our roundabout entrance/exit and it tells pedestrians approaching from one direction to look right and the other direction to look left. The end result is that nobody in a car stops to let anyone across ....ever. Completely pointless as technically they don't exist in legality so drivers just ignore them. We have speed humps in the town which pedestrians use as crossing points but I have a letter stating that they are not crossings, even though they have the bobbled paving at each end to assist the blind.
The trans crossing has got to be someone taking the piss, as who the hell would suggest a trans crossing to help trans people to cross over.
On another note, we have 20mph signs in the next village but they have a green circle around them, not red. The villagers questioned this and were told the legal speed limit is 30mph and the green limit could not be enforced until changed to a red circle. Again, something not legal but there all the same. So, while you're on your crusade of trans people, not everything is about them so I feel Opti has raised a valid point for road safety being pushed aside to pander to whoever.
Just to clarify, I'm not anti trans, anti gay or anti anything. I couldn't give a flying fig what anyone else does with their life, I'm just sick and fed up with us being accused of giving a flying fig. ::)
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As normal legal rules and regulations apply to such crossings, the painted zone makes no difference so the crossing IS completely legal. It is just, yet again, you trying to make something again out of nothing to aid your crusade. :P
They don't though, as technically they don't exist. I actually agree with Opti that you can't suddenly start doing random things and expect drivers to be mind readers. We have orange strips of tarmac on our roundabout entrance/exit and it tells pedestrians approaching from one direction to look right and the other direction to look left. The end result is that nobody in a car stops to let anyone across ....ever. Completely pointless as technically they don't exist in legality so drivers just ignore them. We have speed humps in the town which pedestrians use as crossing points but I have a letter stating that they are not crossings, even though they have the bobbled paving at each end to assist the blind.
The trans crossing has got to be someone taking the piss, as who the hell would suggest a trans crossing to help trans people to cross over.
On another note, we have 20mph signs in the next village but they have a green circle around them, not red. The villagers questioned this and were told the legal speed limit is 30mph and the green limit could not be enforced until changed to a red circle. Again, something not legal but there all the same. So, while you're on your crusade of trans people, not everything is about them so I feel Opti has raised a valid point for road safety being pushed aside to pander to whoever.
Just to clarify, I'm not anti trans, anti gay or anti anything. I couldn't give a flying fig what anyone else does with their life, I'm just sick and fed up with us being accused of giving a flying fig. ::)
Yes.....we have crossings that everybody who drives a car is familiar with.
Why change it?......and why make divisive political capital out of the change.
If anything should be non-political it's a f*ucking crossing, where everybody, including the LGBT community, are free and welcome to cross.
What you have here is a divisive political agenda being encouraged by a dysfunctional and overtly political council. :(
I imagine that most involved with this decision also believe a man can have a cervix. 8)
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This is simply a colourful bit of fun at , as I stated before, a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing which normally is just plain black tarmac with the usual metal studs.
It is a bit of art that does not impact on the safety of the crossing, which conforms to the Road Traffic Act in regards to such installations, and that is why it has been allowed.
So Opti, you are saying that drivers will be confused about passing a green traffic light, or stopping at a red one, and pedestrians will fail to notice the Red or Green Man light? Well, if so, those drivers should not be on the road amongst the rest of us.
This colourful, and legal, installation is no worse, but probably much better, than a shared space traffic area in our town, where crossings, with one exception, are not generally controlled by lights, and just have a very faint change in the road surfaces finish where people walk across the road. If you are complaining about a bit of colour on a dull road crossing, then try what we have got! Even that though has proved to be safe for all users, pedestrians as well as motorists. ;)
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This is simply a colourful bit of fun at , as I stated before, a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing which normally is just plain black tarmac with the usual metal studs.
It is a bit of art that does not impact on the safety of the crossing, which conforms to the Road Traffic Act in regards to such installations, and that is why it has been allowed.
So Opti, you are saying that drivers will be confused about passing a green traffic light, or stopping at a red one, and pedestrians will fail to notice the Red or Green Man light? Well, if so, those drivers should not be on the road amongst the rest of us.
This colourful, and legal, installation is no worse, but probably much better, than a shared space traffic area in our town, where crossings, with one exception, are not generally controlled by lights, and just have a very faint change in the road surfaces finish where people walk across the road. If you are complaining about a bit of colour on a dull road crossing, then try what we have got! Even that though has proved to be safe for all users, pedestrians as well as motorists. ;)
No, Lizzie.
Designed by people with a political bent to be deliberately provocative. This is all about politics.
Believe it or not crossings already exist that can be used by everyone.
What next for terminally woke Camden council? A George Floyd mural crossing to demonstrate 'inclusion and equality' for black people who are stopped by the police? :-X
Sounds crazy but it could happen. :-\
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A Marcus Rashford MBE crossing can't be far away. ::)
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This is simply a colourful bit of fun at , as I stated before, a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing which normally is just plain black tarmac with the usual metal studs.
It is a bit of art that does not impact on the safety of the crossing, which conforms to the Road Traffic Act in regards to such installations, and that is why it has been allowed.
So Opti, you are saying that drivers will be confused about passing a green traffic light, or stopping at a red one, and pedestrians will fail to notice the Red or Green Man light? Well, if so, those drivers should not be on the road amongst the rest of us.
This colourful, and legal, installation is no worse, but probably much better, than a shared space traffic area in our town, where crossings, with one exception, are not generally controlled by lights, and just have a very faint change in the road surfaces finish where people walk across the road. If you are complaining about a bit of colour on a dull road crossing, then try what we have got! Even that though has proved to be safe for all users, pedestrians as well as motorists. ;)
I'm complaining about the political agenda attached to the colours on the road.
As I said before.......if anything should be non-political it should be a f*ucking crossing.
Keep politics out of our crossings. :y
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This is simply a colourful bit of fun at , as I stated before, a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing which normally is just plain black tarmac with the usual metal studs.
It is a bit of art that does not impact on the safety of the crossing, which conforms to the Road Traffic Act in regards to such installations, and that is why it has been allowed.
So Opti, you are saying that drivers will be confused about passing a green traffic light, or stopping at a red one, and pedestrians will fail to notice the Red or Green Man light? Well, if so, those drivers should not be on the road amongst the rest of us.
This colourful, and legal, installation is no worse, but probably much better, than a shared space traffic area in our town, where crossings, with one exception, are not generally controlled by lights, and just have a very faint change in the road surfaces finish where people walk across the road. If you are complaining about a bit of colour on a dull road crossing, then try what we have got! Even that though has proved to be safe for all users, pedestrians as well as motorists. ;)
I'm complaining about the political agenda attached to the colours on the road.
As I said before.......if anything should be non-political it should be a f*ucking crossing.
Keep politics out of our crossings. :y
Who are you actually complaining to? No one on here can do anything about it. So write to Camden council, or send an angry letter to The Times, or glue yourself to the crossing.
No? Thought not.
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I know. The department of transport, that should ruffle a few feathers ;D
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Anyway, I thought the LBGT colours were a rainbow? That's nothing like, it's dull and dreary. Not exactly a Banksy is it?
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I don't really give a shit to be honest, but I do think that Camden Council probably have better things to do and more worthy things to spend taxpayers money on. ::)
Unless I'm wrong and everything is rosy in Camden, and the council is awash with spare cash. :)
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This is simply a colourful bit of fun at , as I stated before, a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing which normally is just plain black tarmac with the usual metal studs.
It is a bit of art that does not impact on the safety of the crossing, which conforms to the Road Traffic Act in regards to such installations, and that is why it has been allowed.
So Opti, you are saying that drivers will be confused about passing a green traffic light, or stopping at a red one, and pedestrians will fail to notice the Red or Green Man light? Well, if so, those drivers should not be on the road amongst the rest of us.
This colourful, and legal, installation is no worse, but probably much better, than a shared space traffic area in our town, where crossings, with one exception, are not generally controlled by lights, and just have a very faint change in the road surfaces finish where people walk across the road. If you are complaining about a bit of colour on a dull road crossing, then try what we have got! Even that though has proved to be safe for all users, pedestrians as well as motorists. ;)
I'm complaining about the political agenda attached to the colours on the road.
As I said before.......if anything should be non-political it should be a f*ucking crossing.
Keep politics out of our crossings. :y
Who are you actually complaining to? No one on here can do anything about it. So write to Camden council, or send an angry letter to The Times, or glue yourself to the crossing.
No? Thought not.
So who are you going to complain to about women talking football?
No. Thought not. ;D
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This is simply a colourful bit of fun at , as I stated before, a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing which normally is just plain black tarmac with the usual metal studs.
It is a bit of art that does not impact on the safety of the crossing, which conforms to the Road Traffic Act in regards to such installations, and that is why it has been allowed.
So Opti, you are saying that drivers will be confused about passing a green traffic light, or stopping at a red one, and pedestrians will fail to notice the Red or Green Man light? Well, if so, those drivers should not be on the road amongst the rest of us.
This colourful, and legal, installation is no worse, but probably much better, than a shared space traffic area in our town, where crossings, with one exception, are not generally controlled by lights, and just have a very faint change in the road surfaces finish where people walk across the road. If you are complaining about a bit of colour on a dull road crossing, then try what we have got! Even that though has proved to be safe for all users, pedestrians as well as motorists. ;)
No, Lizzie.
Designed by people with a political bent to be deliberately provocative. This is all about politics.
Believe it or not crossings already exist that can be used by everyone.
What next for terminally woke Camden council? A George Floyd mural crossing to demonstrate 'inclusion and equality' for black people who are stopped by the police? :-X
Sounds crazy but it could happen. :-\
The great majority of everyday people, without any strong political inclination, will think nothing of a bit of colour placed on a road. In fact many, especially children, will love it.
As Steve suggests, if you are that bothered by it, go and complain to the authorities, even start a Parliamentary Petition - here is the link:
https://www.change.org/start-a-petition?utm_source=sem&utm_medium=google_ad&utm_campaign=&utm_term=government%20petitions|e|AG:128437756306|AD:555912787844&utm_content=&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-K2MBhC-ARIsAMtLKRtRmRGGd5qK0KeFFwv7eCc384aXbIcUXiXXGeFmpLOyb5hwk_8gPqcaAtByEALw_wcB
But, really who cares when there is so much for real people, away from keyboard warmongering to worry about. But I suppose in your ivory tower you have not got the worries like hard working, with everyday normal, people have ::) ::) ::)
Anyway, time for me to sign off of this ridiculous thread. Carry on thinking what you like as a man of yesterday. Life for me is too short to take this seriously. :P :P :P :-X
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I don't really give a shit to be honest, but I do think that Camden Council probably have better things to do and more worthy things to spend taxpayers money on. ::)
Unless I'm wrong and everything is rosy in Camden, and the council is awash with spare cash. :)
Only probably.... :-\
Well. There are old people.....schools....police.....car crime.....rape......burglary....rubbish removal....
But I realise that in 2021 such trivia is less important than a new crossing that makes 0.1% of the population feel included.
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This is simply a colourful bit of fun at , as I stated before, a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing which normally is just plain black tarmac with the usual metal studs.
It is a bit of art that does not impact on the safety of the crossing, which conforms to the Road Traffic Act in regards to such installations, and that is why it has been allowed.
So Opti, you are saying that drivers will be confused about passing a green traffic light, or stopping at a red one, and pedestrians will fail to notice the Red or Green Man light? Well, if so, those drivers should not be on the road amongst the rest of us.
This colourful, and legal, installation is no worse, but probably much better, than a shared space traffic area in our town, where crossings, with one exception, are not generally controlled by lights, and just have a very faint change in the road surfaces finish where people walk across the road. If you are complaining about a bit of colour on a dull road crossing, then try what we have got! Even that though has proved to be safe for all users, pedestrians as well as motorists. ;)
I'm complaining about the political agenda attached to the colours on the road.
As I said before.......if anything should be non-political it should be a f*ucking crossing.
Keep politics out of our crossings. :y
Who are you actually complaining to? No one on here can do anything about it. So write to Camden council, or send an angry letter to The Times, or glue yourself to the crossing.
No? Thought not.
So who are you going to complain to about women talking football?
No. Thought not. ;D
I mentioned it because it affects me, personally. If a coloured crossing in Camden affects you, I'd like to hear why :-\
And why are you concerned about Camdens budget?
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I don't really give a shit to be honest, but I do think that Camden Council probably have better things to do and more worthy things to spend taxpayers money on. ::)
Unless I'm wrong and everything is rosy in Camden, and the council is awash with spare cash. :)
This is the same council that had the three naked blokes cunningly disguised as animals reading kids stories :-\
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Anyhow, more important issues, I have a nose hair that needs plucking.
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I don't really give a shit to be honest, but I do think that Camden Council probably have better things to do and more worthy things to spend taxpayers money on. ::)
Unless I'm wrong and everything is rosy in Camden, and the council is awash with spare cash. :)
This is the same council that had the three naked blokes cunningly disguised as animals reading kids stories :-\
Do you mean the one's with their monster dicks hanging out, Al?
If so I think I know who you mean.
I think some of the kids are still having nightmares. ;D :-\ :-\
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I don't really give a shit to be honest, but I do think that Camden Council probably have better things to do and more worthy things to spend taxpayers money on. ::)
Unless I'm wrong and everything is rosy in Camden, and the council is awash with spare cash. :)
This is the same council that had the three naked blokes cunningly disguised as animals reading kids stories :-\
Did the parents complain?
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I think it was this group of entertainers....
Apparently they were hired to help encourage young kids to read. ::)
I'll say one thing.....that monkey is impressively well hung.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566434/actor-bare-bottomed-fake-penis-monkey-kids-event/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566434/actor-bare-bottomed-fake-penis-monkey-kids-event/)
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I don't really give a shit to be honest, but I do think that Camden Council probably have better things to do and more worthy things to spend taxpayers money on. ::)
Unless I'm wrong and everything is rosy in Camden, and the council is awash with spare cash. :)
This is the same council that had the three naked blokes cunningly disguised as animals reading kids stories :-\
Did the parents complain?
Very much and very loudly. ;D
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I don't really give a shit to be honest, but I do think that Camden Council probably have better things to do and more worthy things to spend taxpayers money on. ::)
Unless I'm wrong and everything is rosy in Camden, and the council is awash with spare cash. :)
Only probably.... :-\
Well. There are old people.....schools....police.....car crime.....rape......burglary....rubbish removal....
But I realise that in 2021 such trivia is less important than a new crossing that makes 0.1% of the population feel included.
Understatement is particularly a trait of the English M'lud. :)
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I think it was this group of entertainers....
Apparently they were hired to help encourage young kids to read. ::)
I'll say one thing.....that monkey is impressively well hung.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566434/actor-bare-bottomed-fake-penis-monkey-kids-event/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566434/actor-bare-bottomed-fake-penis-monkey-kids-event/)
Jeez! How did I miss that one? :o
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But that was Dagenham and Redbridge, not Camden.
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I think it was this group of entertainers....
Apparently they were hired to help encourage young kids to read. ::)
I'll say one thing.....that monkey is impressively well hung.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566434/actor-bare-bottomed-fake-penis-monkey-kids-event/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566434/actor-bare-bottomed-fake-penis-monkey-kids-event/)
Jeez! How did I miss that one? :o
I think the well-endowed monkey using the trans crossing would make a great publicity picture to promote Camden. :y
Bit like the Beatles strolling across that Zebra crossing in the sixties. :y
Can't fail. :)
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I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
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It's a waste of money and more importantly dangerous ,crossings and other road markings should be kept standard .
some people struggle to cope with basic driving :(
Today I watched a woman hit/mount the curb hard twice and hit a road sign post directly in front of her (on a path) :o
keep road signs and markings simple ,because half the people on the roads are simple :D
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Camden is the home of the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, the Trust campaigned, and won through the courts, the right to give puberty blockers to under sixteens. They have since been investigated and had that right retracted, and the age is now back to sixteen but the Trust is appealing against that decision.
I can't see the road painting becoming popular, I just think Camden has a penchant for the gay, trans community.
It affects me not one jot, I just thought I'd throw that bit of ammunition in for Opti. ;D
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It's a waste of money and more importantly dangerous ,crossings and other road markings should be kept standard .
some people struggle to cope with basic driving :(
Today I watched a woman hit/mount the curb hard twice and hit a road sign post directly in front of her (on a path) :o
keep road signs and markings simple ,because half the people on the roads are simple :D
I had a quick look through the regulations regarding road markings and crossings, etc. Thought I might find something to make Opti's day, but no. There are lots of rules about road markings, signage and lighting. Even the positioning relevant to roads, schools, etc. But nothing about the colour.
I can't see it making any difference, the signs as you approach and lights on the crossing should be enough for anyone even half awake.
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I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
I used to live in Forest Gate where even in the 1990's I was an effnic minority! ;D
Used to drink in the King Eddie on Stratford High Street. :y
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It's a waste of money and more importantly dangerous ,crossings and other road markings should be kept standard .
some people struggle to cope with basic driving :(
Today I watched a woman hit/mount the curb hard twice and hit a road sign post directly in front of her (on a path) :o
keep road signs and markings simple ,because half the people on the roads are simple :D
I had a quick look through the regulations regarding road markings and crossings, etc. Thought I might find something to make Opti's day, but no. There are lots of rules about road markings, signage and lighting. Even the positioning relevant to roads, schools, etc. But nothing about the colour.
I can't see it making any difference, the signs as you approach and lights on the crossing should be enough for anyone even half awake.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/330214/ltn-2-95_pedestrian-crossings.pdf
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I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
I used to live in Forest Gate where even in the 1990's I was an effnic minority! ;D
Used to drink in the King Eddie on Stratford High Street. :y
I think it was mid eighties I was there......I think. I liked a drink or two in those days ;D
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I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
Camden etc only seem lefty if your perspective is somewhere right of Arthur Scargill. Obviously you might have been just to his left at the time, so everything would look rosy ;D
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I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
Camden etc only seem lefty if your perspective is somewhere right of Arthur Scargill. Obviously you might have been just to his left at the time, so everything would look rosy ;D
How would you know? You'd have been about 10 when I was there ;D
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I distinctly recall it being a bit hippiefied in the early nineties. I don't expect that it has improved any, and I have yet to meet a right leaning hippie...
-
......
are these new crossings legitimate?
...
There appears to be no mention of such folly in The Highway Code. Government road and transport documentation seem to suggest that all crossings must adhere to strict rules and regulations.......and I'm far from sure that these do.
.....
Apparrantly not, according to .gov response when somebody else questioned it.
Here you go Opti. :y
All pedestrian crossings are regulated by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD). This includes zebras, puffins, and the type of pedestrian facilities at junctions referred to here.
TSRGD prescribes the signs, signals and markings that must be used to create the different types of crossing. The Traffic Signs Manual gives guidance on the use of road markings in Chapter 5, but the requirements of TSRGD take precedence over any good practice guidance.
In the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore doesn’t come within the scope of the TSRGD. It has no legal meaning and therefore could be placed within the crossing studs at a signal-controlled crossing, or pedestrian facility at a junction.
The use of surfacing in this way needs careful thought. Striped designs must be avoided – there is a trend to use surfacing materials (e.g. different types of stone paviour) in patterns to mark informal crossings, including some that are striped. Our view is that any crossing that is not a zebra must not resemble one. That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing. Zebra crossings have a defined priority in law, and anything that looks like one could lead pedestrians to assume priority when it doesn’t exist. The artwork must not alter the appearance of the prescribed crossing signals, signs and markings in any way, as this may mean they were no longer compliant with TSRGD.
It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs but not anywhere else, as some have been removed. A few wheel spin marks on them and the painting maintenance cost will soon piss them off.
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Yes, there’s the fact that some paints and more slippery than others too, I wonder have these coloured paints been checked. In my opinion a crossing should stay black and white then we all know exactly what it is, and what it stands for, and can be shown/taught/explained to children without confusion.
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I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
You forgot Colchester. The Robin Hood pub shut up shop when you left town. :D
-
......
are these new crossings legitimate?
...
There appears to be no mention of such folly in The Highway Code. Government road and transport documentation seem to suggest that all crossings must adhere to strict rules and regulations.......and I'm far from sure that these do.
.....
Apparrantly not, according to .gov response when somebody else questioned it.
Here you go Opti. :y
All pedestrian crossings are regulated by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD). This includes zebras, puffins, and the type of pedestrian facilities at junctions referred to here.
TSRGD prescribes the signs, signals and markings that must be used to create the different types of crossing. The Traffic Signs Manual gives guidance on the use of road markings in Chapter 5, but the requirements of TSRGD take precedence over any good practice guidance.
In the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore doesn’t come within the scope of the TSRGD. It has no legal meaning and therefore could be placed within the crossing studs at a signal-controlled crossing, or pedestrian facility at a junction.
The use of surfacing in this way needs careful thought. Striped designs must be avoided – there is a trend to use surfacing materials (e.g. different types of stone paviour) in patterns to mark informal crossings, including some that are striped. Our view is that any crossing that is not a zebra must not resemble one. That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing. Zebra crossings have a defined priority in law, and anything that looks like one could lead pedestrians to assume priority when it doesn’t exist. The artwork must not alter the appearance of the prescribed crossing signals, signs and markings in any way, as this may mean they were no longer compliant with TSRGD.
It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs but not anywhere else, as some have been removed. A few wheel spin marks on them and the painting maintenance cost will soon piss them off.
"It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs" - Exactly what you have with this crossing. as I made clear in my earlier post on the legality of this crossing.! ::) ::) ::)
So no argument then :-X :-X :-X
-
......
are these new crossings legitimate?
...
There appears to be no mention of such folly in The Highway Code. Government road and transport documentation seem to suggest that all crossings must adhere to strict rules and regulations.......and I'm far from sure that these do.
.....
Apparrantly not, according to .gov response when somebody else questioned it.
Here you go Opti. :y
All pedestrian crossings are regulated by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD). This includes zebras, puffins, and the type of pedestrian facilities at junctions referred to here.
TSRGD prescribes the signs, signals and markings that must be used to create the different types of crossing. The Traffic Signs Manual gives guidance on the use of road markings in Chapter 5, but the requirements of TSRGD take precedence over any good practice guidance.
In the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore doesn’t come within the scope of the TSRGD. It has no legal meaning and therefore could be placed within the crossing studs at a signal-controlled crossing, or pedestrian facility at a junction.
The use of surfacing in this way needs careful thought. Striped designs must be avoided – there is a trend to use surfacing materials (e.g. different types of stone paviour) in patterns to mark informal crossings, including some that are striped. Our view is that any crossing that is not a zebra must not resemble one. That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing. Zebra crossings have a defined priority in law, and anything that looks like one could lead pedestrians to assume priority when it doesn’t exist. The artwork must not alter the appearance of the prescribed crossing signals, signs and markings in any way, as this may mean they were no longer compliant with TSRGD.
It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs but not anywhere else, as some have been removed. A few wheel spin marks on them and the painting maintenance cost will soon piss them off.
Good find. Well researched. :y :y
So it seems these indulgent follies are...
Illegal.
Unnecessary, as trans people are allowed and welcome to use the same crossings as us plebs.
Probably unsafe, as motorists should not be expected to keep up with every new woke fad of pavement paint.
Exclusive rather than inclusive.....as it is described as a 'trans crossing'
Expensive waste of taxpayer money.
Unwanted. I doubt the good people of Camden wanted this 'iconic new landmark' in significant numbers.
It is the work of a tiny minority of council 'box tickers'
-
I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
You forgot Colchester. The Robin Hood pub shut up shop when you left town. :D
You're going way back now, Albs, I spent my 21st birthday in jail in Colchester ;D
-
......
are these new crossings legitimate?
...
There appears to be no mention of such folly in The Highway Code. Government road and transport documentation seem to suggest that all crossings must adhere to strict rules and regulations.......and I'm far from sure that these do.
.....
Apparrantly not, according to .gov response when somebody else questioned it.
Here you go Opti. :y
All pedestrian crossings are regulated by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD). This includes zebras, puffins, and the type of pedestrian facilities at junctions referred to here.
TSRGD prescribes the signs, signals and markings that must be used to create the different types of crossing. The Traffic Signs Manual gives guidance on the use of road markings in Chapter 5, but the requirements of TSRGD take precedence over any good practice guidance.
In the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore doesn’t come within the scope of the TSRGD. It has no legal meaning and therefore could be placed within the crossing studs at a signal-controlled crossing, or pedestrian facility at a junction.
The use of surfacing in this way needs careful thought. Striped designs must be avoided – there is a trend to use surfacing materials (e.g. different types of stone paviour) in patterns to mark informal crossings, including some that are striped. Our view is that any crossing that is not a zebra must not resemble one. That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing. Zebra crossings have a defined priority in law, and anything that looks like one could lead pedestrians to assume priority when it doesn’t exist. The artwork must not alter the appearance of the prescribed crossing signals, signs and markings in any way, as this may mean they were no longer compliant with TSRGD.
It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs but not anywhere else, as some have been removed. A few wheel spin marks on them and the painting maintenance cost will soon piss them off.
Good find. Well researched. :y :y
So it seems these indulgent follies are...
Illegal.
Unnecessary, as trans people are allowed and welcome to use the same crossings as us plebs.
Probably unsafe, as motorists should not be expected to keep up with every new woke fad of pavement paint.
Exclusive rather than inclusive.....as it is described as a 'trans crossing'
Expensive waste of taxpayer money.
Unwanted. I doubt the good people of Camden wanted this 'iconic new landmark' in significant numbers.
It is the work of a tiny minority of council 'box tickers'
Yes.....but apart from that? ;D
-
It's a waste of money and more importantly dangerous ,crossings and other road markings should be kept standard .
some people struggle to cope with basic driving :(
Today I watched a woman hit/mount the curb hard twice and hit a road sign post directly in front of her (on a path) :o
keep road signs and markings simple ,because half the people on the roads are simple :D
I agree.
I hear Camden council have plans to reinvent the wheel next.
Much like traditional crossings the wheel now needs to be updated and redesigned for the twenty first century. Perhaps a different shape would help. ::) ::)
Or......we could leave both well alone. :)
-
......
are these new crossings legitimate?
...
There appears to be no mention of such folly in The Highway Code. Government road and transport documentation seem to suggest that all crossings must adhere to strict rules and regulations.......and I'm far from sure that these do.
.....
Apparrantly not, according to .gov response when somebody else questioned it.
Here you go Opti. :y
All pedestrian crossings are regulated by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD). This includes zebras, puffins, and the type of pedestrian facilities at junctions referred to here.
TSRGD prescribes the signs, signals and markings that must be used to create the different types of crossing. The Traffic Signs Manual gives guidance on the use of road markings in Chapter 5, but the requirements of TSRGD take precedence over any good practice guidance.
In the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore doesn’t come within the scope of the TSRGD. It has no legal meaning and therefore could be placed within the crossing studs at a signal-controlled crossing, or pedestrian facility at a junction.
The use of surfacing in this way needs careful thought. Striped designs must be avoided – there is a trend to use surfacing materials (e.g. different types of stone paviour) in patterns to mark informal crossings, including some that are striped. Our view is that any crossing that is not a zebra must not resemble one. That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing. Zebra crossings have a defined priority in law, and anything that looks like one could lead pedestrians to assume priority when it doesn’t exist. The artwork must not alter the appearance of the prescribed crossing signals, signs and markings in any way, as this may mean they were no longer compliant with TSRGD.
It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs but not anywhere else, as some have been removed. A few wheel spin marks on them and the painting maintenance cost will soon piss them off.
"It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs" - Exactly what you have with this crossing. as I made clear in my earlier post on the legality of this crossing.! ::) ::) ::)
So no argument then :-X :-X :-X
You read the bits that suit you. The actual Department of Transport response says 'That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing', hence why I highlighted it. It's saying that a controlled crossing should not look like a zebra crossing, hence it's not legal. ::)
People on the Spectrum have raised issues with it being confusing but hey, they don't count as there is no mileage in them.
-
......
are these new crossings legitimate?
...
There appears to be no mention of such folly in The Highway Code. Government road and transport documentation seem to suggest that all crossings must adhere to strict rules and regulations.......and I'm far from sure that these do.
.....
Apparrantly not, according to .gov response when somebody else questioned it.
Here you go Opti. :y
All pedestrian crossings are regulated by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD). This includes zebras, puffins, and the type of pedestrian facilities at junctions referred to here.
TSRGD prescribes the signs, signals and markings that must be used to create the different types of crossing. The Traffic Signs Manual gives guidance on the use of road markings in Chapter 5, but the requirements of TSRGD take precedence over any good practice guidance.
In the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore doesn’t come within the scope of the TSRGD. It has no legal meaning and therefore could be placed within the crossing studs at a signal-controlled crossing, or pedestrian facility at a junction.
The use of surfacing in this way needs careful thought. Striped designs must be avoided – there is a trend to use surfacing materials (e.g. different types of stone paviour) in patterns to mark informal crossings, including some that are striped. Our view is that any crossing that is not a zebra must not resemble one. That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing. Zebra crossings have a defined priority in law, and anything that looks like one could lead pedestrians to assume priority when it doesn’t exist. The artwork must not alter the appearance of the prescribed crossing signals, signs and markings in any way, as this may mean they were no longer compliant with TSRGD.
It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs but not anywhere else, as some have been removed. A few wheel spin marks on them and the painting maintenance cost will soon piss them off.
Good find. Well researched. :y :y
So it seems these indulgent follies are...
Illegal.
Unnecessary, as trans people are allowed and welcome to use the same crossings as us plebs.
Probably unsafe, as motorists should not be expected to keep up with every new woke fad of pavement paint.
Exclusive rather than inclusive.....as it is described as a 'trans crossing'
Expensive waste of taxpayer money.
Unwanted. I doubt the good people of Camden wanted this 'iconic new landmark' in significant numbers.
It is the work of a tiny minority of council 'box tickers'
Yes.....but apart from that? ;D
That short statement has a 'what did the Romans ever do for us ' feel about it. 8)
-
I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
You forgot Colchester. The Robin Hood pub shut up shop when you left town. :D
You're going way back now, Albs, I spent my 21st birthday in jail in Colchester ;D
Bloody hell ! I think Humpty Dumpty was still sat on the wall next to The Hole in the wall pub then. ;D
Did Bodicea drink in The Robin Hood at that time ? ;D
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https://youtu.be/WXa5RmnaPLo (https://youtu.be/WXa5RmnaPLo)
Apparently the garish colours affect guide dogs and horses. :-\
But I supposed animal can also be transphobic... ;D ;D
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I've worked in Ilford, Barkingside, Plaistow, Forest Gate, Stratford, Barking......it was never like this then. Camden Lock was always 'trendy', but never seemed particularly lefty to me.
But, then again, that was a while ago.
You forgot Colchester. The Robin Hood pub shut up shop when you left town. :D
You're going way back now, Albs, I spent my 21st birthday in jail in Colchester ;D
I was thinking you spent more nights locked away than in town on the lash :D
-
......
are these new crossings legitimate?
...
There appears to be no mention of such folly in The Highway Code. Government road and transport documentation seem to suggest that all crossings must adhere to strict rules and regulations.......and I'm far from sure that these do.
.....
Apparrantly not, according to .gov response when somebody else questioned it.
Here you go Opti. :y
All pedestrian crossings are regulated by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD). This includes zebras, puffins, and the type of pedestrian facilities at junctions referred to here.
TSRGD prescribes the signs, signals and markings that must be used to create the different types of crossing. The Traffic Signs Manual gives guidance on the use of road markings in Chapter 5, but the requirements of TSRGD take precedence over any good practice guidance.
In the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore doesn’t come within the scope of the TSRGD. It has no legal meaning and therefore could be placed within the crossing studs at a signal-controlled crossing, or pedestrian facility at a junction.
The use of surfacing in this way needs careful thought. Striped designs must be avoided – there is a trend to use surfacing materials (e.g. different types of stone paviour) in patterns to mark informal crossings, including some that are striped. Our view is that any crossing that is not a zebra must not resemble one. That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing. Zebra crossings have a defined priority in law, and anything that looks like one could lead pedestrians to assume priority when it doesn’t exist. The artwork must not alter the appearance of the prescribed crossing signals, signs and markings in any way, as this may mean they were no longer compliant with TSRGD.
It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs but not anywhere else, as some have been removed. A few wheel spin marks on them and the painting maintenance cost will soon piss them off.
"It would appear that they may get away with it on traffic light controlled crossings with studs" - Exactly what you have with this crossing. as I made clear in my earlier post on the legality of this crossing.! ::) ::) ::)
So no argument then :-X :-X :-X
You read the bits that suit you. The actual Department of Transport response says 'That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing', hence why I highlighted it. It's saying that a controlled crossing should not look like a zebra crossing, hence it's not legal. ::)
People on the Spectrum have raised issues with it being confusing but hey, they don't count as there is no mileage in them.
So it looks like a zebra crossing to you, painted with set black and white same size boxes?
I can recommend SpecSavers for you, or go out and look at a zebra crossing and compare with this threads photo :D ;)
If others find the photo image confusing, so be it. But a lot of motorists find all too much confusing, only to them, as they get older and forget the Highway Code. ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)
I wasnt goingh to comment again on this thread, but I have to stress that all this thread was about trashing anything that is "Diverse" and "not how it was in my day". Let's all grow up eh, and move on. Live and let live, life is now too short for many of us to worry about such things. :)
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Lizzie.....you really need to read what YZ 250 said again.
You are struggling to understand.
But for the purpose of clarity I'll help a young lady in distress because I am that rare thing in 2021.....I am a gentleman. ::) ::)
He is right and you are wrong.
Hope this helps. :)
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Lizzie.....you really need to read what YZ 250 said again.
You are struggling to understand.
But for the purpose of clarity I'll help a young lady in distress because I am that rare thing in 2021.....I am a gentleman. ::) ::)
He is right and you are wrong.
Hope this helps. :)
You know I do not care a flying fig if I am right or wrong, but it is still a fact you are pushing your anti-woke agenda and campaign on the OOF, but what else are you doing about it?! :P :P :P :P
Have you yet taken up STEMO's suggestion of lodging a protest with Camden Council? Have you taken up my suggestion to launch a Change.org petition with Parliament, I gave you the link?
No? I thought not as you are one who would sooner whine and be a winger to every on here about what YOU do not like, but do not take your convictions, that I know are strong and genuine, forward as a true campaigner would. ::) ::) ::) :-X
Let us all know when you have taken up your argument with the relevant authorities and people that care. ;)
-
Lizzie.....you really need to read what YZ 250 said again.
You are struggling to understand.
But for the purpose of clarity I'll help a young lady in distress because I am that rare thing in 2021.....I am a gentleman. ::) ::)
He is right and you are wrong.
Hope this helps. :)
You know I do not care a flying fig if I am right or wrong, but it is still a fact you are pushing your anti-woke agenda and campaign on the OOF, but what else are you doing about it?! :P :P :P :P
Have you yet taken up STEMO's suggestion of lodging a protest with Camden Council? Have you taken up my suggestion to launch a Change.org petition with Parliament, I gave you the link?
No? I thought not as you are one who would sooner whine and be a winger to every on here about what YOU do not like, but do not take your convictions, that I know are strong and genuine, forward as a true campaigner would. ::) ::) ::) :-X
Let us all know when you have taken up your argument with the relevant authorities and people that care. ;)
Have you dug this thread up again. ;D
I've moved on.
I can imagine you hyperventilating as you pace up and down with the unfairness of it all
Take a deep breath and then slowly release it.....10...9....8...7 get the idea. :)
-
Lizzie.....you really need to read what YZ 250 said again.
You are struggling to understand.
But for the purpose of clarity I'll help a young lady in distress because I am that rare thing in 2021.....I am a gentleman. ::) ::)
He is right and you are wrong.
Hope this helps. :)
You know I do not care a flying fig if I am right or wrong, but it is still a fact you are pushing your anti-woke agenda and campaign on the OOF, but what else are you doing about it?! :P :P :P :P
Have you yet taken up STEMO's suggestion of lodging a protest with Camden Council? Have you taken up my suggestion to launch a Change.org petition with Parliament, I gave you the link?
No? I thought not as you are one who would sooner whine and be a winger to every on here about what YOU do not like, but do not take your convictions, that I know are strong and genuine, forward as a true campaigner would. ::) ::) ::) :-X
Let us all know when you have taken up your argument with the relevant authorities and people that care. ;)
Have you dug this thread up again. ;D
I've moved on.
I can imagine you hyperventilating as you pace up and down with the unfairness of it all
Take a deep breath and then slowly release it.....10...9....8...7 get the idea. :)
As I said, do not care about the Camden crossing and I, unlike you, are not pacing up and down over these diversity issues, i would just sooner not keep on seeing your same old boring same old message. ;)
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You're at the opposite ends of the debate with your own agendas, so don't get all uppity about it with all the gusto of a pious hypocrite.
Accept that other people have equally valid opinions and deal with it like a grown up.
-
Peacemaker🌹 :y
-
I was sat out the front of a posh cafe on Piccadilly in the summer scoffing a £25 slice of cake & my boss was bemoaning the waste of money being spent in that area on multi -coloured pedestrian crossings. I think the fizzy wine must have gone to my head ; cos I quite liked it ::)
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I was sat out the front of a posh cafe on Piccadilly in the summer scoffing a £25 slice of cake & my boss was bemoaning the waste of money being spent in that area on multi -coloured pedestrian crossings. I think the fizzy wine must have gone to my head ; cos I quite liked it ::)
.
Got to agree with you there not see the UK crossing in question but in Spain I have seen several colourful road markings & they look great.
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No such nonsense in Gran Canaria, and that's probably the most inclusive place I have ever been. :-X
-
You're at the opposite ends of the debate with your own agendas, so don't get all uppity about it with all the gusto of a pious hypocrite.
Accept that other people have equally valid opinions and deal with it like a grown up.
Yes DG, for not the first time you are right and as recommended by others I should just leave this childish nonsense alone :y :y
No more comment from me on these diversity threads ;D ;)
Now all can see why I was nicknamed “The Terrier” by the directors of my company; I chase things down until I get a result ;)
-
Perpective.
This is a car forum, now frequented by maybe a couple of dozen people. We wont put the world to rights (or our own personal version of right) by posting all our thoughts and strongly held beliefs on here.
Can someone please remind me of this post next time Im having a rant. ;D
-
Perpective.
This is a car forum, now frequented by maybe a couple of dozen people. We wont put the world to rights (or our own personal version of right) by posting all our thoughts and strongly held beliefs on here.
Can someone please remind me of this post next time Im having a rant. ;D
;D :y :y