Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie Zoom on 20 June 2022, 18:26:26
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So the unions have decided to have their members come out on strike tomorrow.
After hearing various reports about rail workers current salaries I have found this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077#:~:text=Rail%20construction%20and%20maintenance%20operatives,and%20tram%20drivers%20%2D%20%C2%A359%2C189
So as the majority of the population, who are on a average wage far lower than railway staff, are fighting higher living costs these unions believe their members are hard done by. The industry has survived over the last two years by way of multi-billion pound injections of cash by the U.K. Government. But these workers still want a 7% increase across the board.
I really wonder what is going on. Do they realise that this action could scare away the increased passenger numbers witnessed post-pandemic, but well short of the numbers before? Do they think this will help them in their cause of keeping old, and expensive, railway practices going when the railway companies cannot improve financial viability by letting them do so?
Perhaps this strike will lead to an outcome similar to that experienced by the coal miners 40 years ago. In my opinion, it is plain stupidity and greed and will piss off the very people that railway workers depend on; the passengers, just at a time when they are trying to keep sane over vastly increased costs of a rail ticket. The Government will also be pissed off and could really bring down an axe on any further support >:(
But, what do you all, or importantly, the younger regular users of the railways in your families, think about all this? :(
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Unions are just a bunch of greedy entitled leftie c unts.
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They can strike as much as they like, as its a plausible excuse for my company to cough up the taxes for driving into central London ;D. And I won't be able to go into my official office if the trains ain't running, what a shame ;D
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Unions are just a bunch of greedy entitled leftie c unts.
Now that I will totally agree with you on DG as they certainly are! :y :y
What makes me laugh is how the Union bosses still come out to the press and talk in a really thick way. With their working class accents, they try and sound sophisticated by using “serious” words to try and make themselves appear educated and clever, instead of talking normally in the way they would in any normal situation. Maybe a silly point to bring up, but it is so noticeable as these people have been doing that certainly since the 1970’s, the era that they really belong to! ;D ;D
But it would all be a joke if only it was not a very serious, disruptive and catastrophic situation that is going to cause millions much distress and inconvenience, wasting millions of pounds per day for our economy. All because they believe their higher than average salaries need a 7% boost!
Bastards!! >:( >:(
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Sack the lot of them - and if the nurses,doctors, parking attendants and postmen join in as they are threatening to - sack the lot of them as well.
Mick wotsisname sees a chance to return to his utopia of the 19070,s. Stick him behind bars.
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Sack the lot of them - and if the nurses,doctors, parking attendants and postmen join in as they are threatening to - sack the lot of them as well.
Mick wotsisname sees a chance to return to his utopia of the 19070,s. Stick him behind bars.
Yes, all of that seems reasonable ;D
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Of course it is. TB wold shoot the lot of them in front of their families. ;D
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..... All because they believe their higher than average salaries need a 7% boost!
Bastards!! >:( >:(
I've no idea what terms & conditions etc they're fighting for other than the percentage pay rise they're asking for ..... but how many here are paid anything like the average wage? There are some pretty thirsty/expensive cars here for an average wage.
Lizzie .. should we all be on the average wage of around £30k.
https://www.google.com/search?q=uk+average+salary&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=uk+aver&aqs=chrome.0.35i39j69i57j0i131i395i433i512j0i395i433i457i512j0i395i512l2j0i512l4.3360j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
We've just been offered 4.5% plus some other bits
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..... All because they believe their higher than average salaries need a 7% boost!
Bastards!! >:( >:(
I've no idea what terms & conditions etc they're fighting for other than the percentage pay rise they're asking for ..... but how many here are paid anything like the average wage? There are some pretty thirsty/expensive cars here for an average wage.
Lizzie .. should we all be on the average wage of around £30k.
https://www.google.com/search?q=uk+average+salary&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=uk+aver&aqs=chrome.0.35i39j69i57j0i131i395i433i512j0i395i433i457i512j0i395i512l2j0i512l4.3360j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
We've just been offered 4.5% plus some other bits
It depends what job and position / responsibilities people have. The railway workers are already at levels above the average, with the train drivers at £59,000+. That seems fair enough to me so why do they expect more, of at least 7%? NHS staff must dream of an average starting at £33,000.
4.5% that you have been offered Andy seems ok, but it does depend on what you and the responsibilities you have. Us pensioners will just have to expect what comes ;D ;D ;)
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Average and starting salaries are very different things. Likewise basic and with/without shift pay and allowances.
Starting salary for an. Airport Security Officer at Gatwick is circa £19,000, yet they are advertising it as upto £32,000.
To qualify for that, you get your roster two weeks ahead and the Shift Pay is over a grand a month. Which isn't in the advert.
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I think that it is political just as much as about pay etc. Another dig at ousting the Conservatives. And, the Union needs to be seen flexing their muscles.
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Unions have to create issues and stir the pot or they fail to have a reason to exist.
From what I am told by a number of rail workers, they are being offered reasinable pay increase but, are being asked to come into the 21st century for certain operating practices where technology is better and safer. As usual, they don;t want to (as they have always done on the railways)
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without Unions they'd still be sending kids up chimneys
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Thats possibly true, and there can still be a place for them now in certain circumstances.
However, the leader of the union going on strike today is a member of the Communist party and straight out of the Arthur Scargill school of union leaders.
I.E extremely far left, and has very few brain cells between his ears.
He is trying to fight an old fashioned class war, when most people dont even think in terms of class any more.
He is no doubt trying to bring down the Tory Government and dreams of destroying Capitalism altogether.
I suspect that the Govt. are going to allow this to run on until in inflicts misery on millions of people who end up very angry indeed.
Then they will have the perfect excuse to bring in new legal restrictions on union activity, with the backing of the public, and Labour too scared to protest too much about it.
I hope when they do this they concentrate on the public sector, because the unions there still have far too much power.
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Be asked to join two unions at work. Not happening as long as I have a hole in my arse.
Adds upto £42 a month. I would rather spend it on McDonald's Filet O Fish* or add it to my SIPP.
*Possibly the single most hateful thing on their menu :D
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Be asked to join two unions at work. Not happening as long as I have a hole in my arse.
Adds upto £42 a month. I would rather spend it on McDonald's Filet O Fish* or add it to my SIPP.
*Possibly the single most hateful thing on their menu :D
As for workers rights, the unions did such good for the miners and British Leyland ;D
My taxes already pay to support a generation to sit on its arse and I will be damned if I am going to line the union coffers as well.
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Be asked to join two unions at work. Not happening as long as I have a hole in my arse.
Adds upto £42 a month. I would rather spend it on McDonald's Filet O Fish* or add it to my SIPP.
*Possibly the single most hateful thing on their menu :D
As for workers rights, the unions did such good for the miners and British Leyland ;D
My taxes already pay to support a generation to sit on its arse and I will be damned if I am going to line the union coffers as well.
... and yoiu'd decline any pay rises or better terms & conditions that the unions might provide
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Never yet seen the unions be as effective as people voting with their feet, wages are based on supply and demand. In this case, and many others, they might get what they want eventually but, the consequence will either be higher ticket prices or fewer jobs, there is no magic :y
In fact when Unison got involved with the Ericsson site closure, they lost us around 4k each. :'(
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its quite sad really. i have personal experience of "sitting across the table" with a number of union guys. the majority of the local union reps work hard for the interest of their local workforce. I have a lot of respect for them to do that. a few see it as a political role and it undermines what they are trying to do.
when you head further up the union structure it tends to get more politicised and less about grass roots workers issues and i feel that undermines the work of the local reps. Its not always the case however I know one national rep @ unite ( i will not name) who when he gets off his political soapbox is a thoroughly reasonable chap to deal with and tries to do sensible things.
sadly i fear this dispute is politicised and it is undermining the real issue here that no one has really cottoned on to: most workers in the UK are facing a below inflation increase - public or private sector. However there are millions of public sector pensioners who are going to get an inflationary pay rise. but they don't contribute to the economy do they? a real social imbalance going on...
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The last train I was on was a steam train on the East Lancs Railway ..... and it will be the next time I'm on a train.
Train travel is expensive & isn't door to door like a car is.
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Be asked to join two unions at work. Not happening as long as I have a hole in my arse.
Adds upto £42 a month. I would rather spend it on McDonald's Filet O Fish* or add it to my SIPP.
*Possibly the single most hateful thing on their menu :D
As for workers rights, the unions did such good for the miners and British Leyland ;D
My taxes already pay to support a generation to sit on its arse and I will be damned if I am going to line the union coffers as well.
... and yoiu'd decline any pay rises or better terms & conditions that the unions might provide
I have yet to see evidence of that. Usually whatever 'rise' is at the expense of something else... Losing sick pay in lieu of a cut in the overtime rate, itself cut from 2x down 1.66x the year before...
Removing the option for lieu days acrrued on Bank Holidays to be paid at 3x instead of 2x plus the lieu day...
A load of Virgin Atlantic legacy crew were made redundant in 2020. Independently they took Virgin to court. The union turned up at court and undermined their case by insisting that they hadn't been informed. The fact that they had zero business there didn't seem to faze them even though they subsequently stalled proceedings. And just because someone had the audicity to not involve them.
C nuts, the lot >:(
Fundamentally, we have a choice as to where we work. If we don't like it, there's plenty other work to do.
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The last train I was on was a steam train on the East Lancs Railway ..... and it will be the next time I'm on a train.
Train travel is expensive & isn't door to door like a car is.
Sadly I may have to endure one next week to Lundun, although I may just park the car at Gatwick and get a coach into Lundun...
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The last train I was on was a steam train on the East Lancs Railway ..... and it will be the next time I'm on a train.
Train travel is expensive & isn't door to door like a car is.
I still go to Laaahhndon fairly often, from West Wales
If alone I go by train (using Senior Railcard!)
If Mrs is coming, I usually drive. Stay at cheap Travelodge with cheap or free parking in Suburbs near a station
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A case in point where a union may have been useful to me was when my employer of 20 years sacked me on the spot for having a disability in my right leg.
It was 2008 and the financial crash was starting to bite, so they looked for any excuse whatsoever to get rid of staff for free.
I was awarded around 25 grand at tribunal, but couldnt get a penny of it, because they had gone into receivership in the meantime, and started up again as if nothing had happened under a slightly different name.*
My only happy ending to the story was that the Director who did it to me, then had the instant bullet himself a few weeks later.
In days gone by, Unions have also done great work in Health & safety matters, but once they became too big and powerful, and run by barons who wanted to bring down Capitalism, they were on a road to nowhere in the private sector.
In the Public sector though, they still wield far too much power and cost all of us a lot of money and progress for no good reason.
Please dont ever buy products from Milbank concrete Ltd. Formely known as Milbank Floors Ltd. :)
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Of course it is. TB wold shoot the lot of them in front of their families. ;D
And whats wrong with that?
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..... All because they believe their higher than average salaries need a 7% boost!
Bastards!! >:( >:(
I've no idea what terms & conditions etc they're fighting for other than the percentage pay rise they're asking for ..... but how many here are paid anything like the average wage? There are some pretty thirsty/expensive cars here for an average wage.
Lizzie .. should we all be on the average wage of around £30k.
https://www.google.com/search?q=uk+average+salary&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=uk+aver&aqs=chrome.0.35i39j69i57j0i131i395i433i512j0i395i433i457i512j0i395i512l2j0i512l4.3360j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
We've just been offered 4.5% plus some other bits
From what I heard on the BBC - so who knows if its anywhere near accurate - the average pay for a railway worker is £44k. Obviously, "average" can mean a lot of things, and drivers are getting shit loads more than those that delitter the trains at the end of each journey.
I believe my company is offering an average of something like 2.5% on average across the grades our union covers. Some will get SFA and good boys like me will get more than the average, but still nowhere near what the RMT are hoping for. But then, as a private, unsubsidised company, there is no Number 10 Money Tree for us.
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The last train I was on was a steam train on the East Lancs Railway ..... and it will be the next time I'm on a train.
Train travel is expensive & isn't door to door like a car is.
Sadly, I have to use train services quite a lot for work. Anything London bound is stupidly expensive, and thats on top of the silly parking charges at Chiltern stations. Birmingham bound is much cheaper, almost bordering on reasonable if it weren't for the parking charges at the station.
And Chiltern only lay on 1 train an hour, so if you miss it....
Which means that colossal waste of money, High Speed 2, is so needed, when Chiltern can't even fill a 4 car DMU every hour ;D
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There is no such thing as average.
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There is no such thing as average.
Being thick, and failing my mock Maths AO, meant I had to do a statistics o level instead. So I can make "average" mean almost anything.
Sadly, I then still have to do my Maths AO in the 1st year of my Maths A level. So by failing the mock AO meant I actually ended up with more qualifications than the bright kids...
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If you've got 100 workers on £100 a week and two bosses on £5K a week, the the average wage at that company is around £200 a week. But, of course, no one is on anything like £200 a week. That's taking it to the extreme, but averages don't work.
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It's like saying there are 5.26 popes per square mile in Vatican City. Ridiculous, but news channels love to quote such crap.
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If you've got 100 workers on £100 a week and two bosses on £5K a week, the the average wage at that company is around £200 a week. But, of course, no one is on anything like £200 a week. That's taking it to the extreme, but averages don't work.
And there is no bell curve, apparently.
But taking your example is precisely the reason why the RMT (other onions available) shouldn't be demanding an across the board pay rise. But railway workers are still in the stone age.
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But taking your example is precisely the reason why the RMT (other onions available) shouldn't be demanding an across the board pay rise. But railway workers are still in the stone age.
This.
Arguing for blanket pay rises on the basis of cost of living increases is as stupid as the argument that increased use of technology automatically leads to job losses, but both are trotted out regularly as 'accepted fact' by the union pr!cks.
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Again reported on the Beeb, so make of that what you will, but it seems Unite have rejected a pay rise of 4% plus one-off £2000 cost of living 'bonus' for Rolls Royce workers. ::)
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So all the employees end up with is fewer jobs to pay for it. Flecking retards. Although they keep buying into the BS, so perhaps they deserve the inevitable :-X
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The last train I was on was a steam train on the East Lancs Railway ..... and it will be the next time I'm on a train.
Train travel is expensive & isn't door to door like a car is.
The last time I got on a train was last November for a day trip to London from Axminster, Devon and the ticket was about £86 for a trip that's about 2 hrs 45 mins each way. :o
Plus £6.50ish for car parking at the station and whatever the Travelcard was when I got to Londinium. About £12.50 I think? :-\
Shame as I like getting on the choo choo! :) ;D
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It's like saying there are 5.26 popes per square mile in Vatican City. Ridiculous, but news channels love to quote such crap.
Theres lies, theres damned lies, and then theres statistics. Which is why the news channels with an agenda love to use statistics.
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Us poor sub contractors get fu.ck all🙁
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Again reported on the Beeb, so make of that what you will, but it seems Unite have rejected a pay rise of 4% plus one-off £2000 cost of living 'bonus' for Rolls Royce workers. ::)
The Union has or the members have?
When our Unite union reps when in for our pay deal last week, they came out with what the company have offered and suggested that we accept it. We'll be voting yeah or nay this coming week.
When Heinz offered £140M investment last year (with strings attached) the union suggested we accepted it. The work force said no.
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How much of the £140m were the union going to see? Obviously the members wouldn't. :-X
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How much of the £140m were the union going to see? Obviously the members wouldn't. :-X
It was investment in the factory at Kitt Green, bringing sauce back amongst other things, but at the expense of Ts & Cs ..... SFA to do with the union.
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How much of the £140m were the union going to see? Obviously the members wouldn't. :-X
It was investment in the factory at Kitt Green, bringing sauce back amongst other things, but at the expense of Ts & Cs ..... SFA to do with the union.
Then why were they pushing for it?
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Judging by this quote, the Union didn't like the deal:
"The revised offer still falls a long way short of the cost of living crisis claim submitted by our members and their expectations. Unite senior reps are in discussions to decide next steps,"
4% uplift and a £2k bonus doesn't meet this year's cost of living uplift?! Unite must think we all came down with the last shower.
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Us poor sub contractors get fu.ck all🙁
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How much of the £140m were the union going to see? Obviously the members wouldn't. :-X
It was investment in the factory at Kitt Green, bringing sauce back amongst other things, but at the expense of Ts & Cs ..... SFA to do with the union.
Then why were they pushing for it?
They didn't. Company offered investment on the back of other terms & consulted union. Union thought it was OK and recommended the workers to accept it. Workers oppsed it off because they didn't like the change in Ts & Cs if they'd have said yes!
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Judging by this quote, the Union didn't like the deal:
"The revised offer still falls a long way short of the cost of living crisis claim submitted by our members and their expectations. Unite senior reps are in discussions to decide next steps,"
4% uplift and a £2k bonus doesn't meet this year's cost of living uplift?! Unite must think we all came down with the last shower.
but the union itself doesn't have the final say, the members do.
I'll let you know if our 4.5% plus £1500 cash bunce (in two instalments) is accepted ..... the union can suggest we accept it, but that doesn't mean to say it'll be accepted by the members. It should do, but there are always those that will reject any offer made by the 'management' because they think there's a chance of a little bit more.
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Which is fundamentally why my first company folded. They were pushing for 10%. Unfortunately, rather than focusing on building business they lost a couple of decent contracts and XL Airways folded. At that point with one contract, they were done.
Unless there's a guaranteed pot to meet the demand anything being demanded is wishful thinking, not an entitlement.
Unfortunately the unions seem unable to protect themselves by failing to grasp the fundamental point that the company needs to remain viable in order to promote growth and job security.
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Which is fundamentally why my first company folded. They were pushing for 10%. Unfortunately, rather than focusing on building business they lost a couple of decent contracts and XL Airways folded. At that point with one contract, they were done.
Unless there's a guaranteed pot to meet the demand anything being demanded is wishful thinking, not an entitlement.
Unfortunately the unions seem unable to protect themselves by failing to grasp the fundamental point that the company needs to remain viable in order to promote growth and job security.
The Union bosses have not got the brain cells to understand that crucial commercial fact, that without profit a business is doomed and so are the jobs that go with it ::)
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Unfortunately the unions seem unable to protect themselves by failing to grasp the fundamental point that the company needs to remain viable in order to promote growth and job security.
Or, they just don't care, because at the end of the day the union pays it's higher-ups jolly well, so their jobs are safe regardless of what happens to the businesses they fu£k about with.
You only have to look at good ol' Len McLusky to see where the unions' priorities lie.
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The union leaders also seem unable to accept that companies are allowed to turn a profit. Indeed, they need to turn a profit for future investment.
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In the case of the railway union the leaders are committed to stopping that sort of thing so we can march forward to the communist utopia.
Morons. ::)
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Why do they call them Union Barons? ???
Is it because they are the aristocracy of workers and are more equal than the others? ::) :)
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What have the unions ever done for us? (https://www.jd4mayor.com/blog/what-have-the-unions-ever-done-for-us/)
Apart from ....
For a start, unions stopped child labour. Unionised workplaces are safer, with 50% fewer accidents. Every year unions train 10,000 safety reps. Union members earn, on average, 12.5 per cent more than non-members. They have better job security, and stay in their jobs for an average of five years longer than non-members. Unionised workplaces have higher productivity and fewer industrial tribunals.
Apart from that, though, trade unions have only gained us paid holidays, maternity and paternity leave, paid sick leave, equal pay legislation, pensions, and workplace anti-discrimination laws. Oh, and the weekend. It was unions that fought for a five day working week.
And, of course, furlough was a result of unions negotiating with the government. We’ve all benefited by keeping the economy afloat.
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How much of the £140m were the union going to see? Obviously the members wouldn't. :-X
It was investment in the factory at Kitt Green, bringing sauce back amongst other things, but at the expense of Ts & Cs ..... SFA to do with the union.
So did Heinz end up investing the £140m or not? ??? :-\
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The last train I was on was a steam train on the East Lancs Railway ..... and it will be the next time I'm on a train.
Train travel is expensive & isn't door to door like a car is.
The last time I got on a train was last November for a day trip to London from Axminster, Devon and the ticket was about £86 for a trip that's about 2 hrs 45 mins each way. :o
Plus £6.50ish for car parking at the station and whatever the Travelcard was when I got to Londinium. About £12.50 I think? :-\
Shame as I like getting on the choo choo! :) ;D
Sounds cheap, Tig.
A return to London from Bicester (travelcard, so includes the tube) is £80, plus £9.50 parking. Plus a 30 mile round trip to get to Bicester.
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How much of the £140m were the union going to see? Obviously the members wouldn't. :-X
It was investment in the factory at Kitt Green, bringing sauce back amongst other things, but at the expense of Ts & Cs ..... SFA to do with the union.
So did Heinz end up investing the £140m or not? ??? :-\
No .... they didn't.
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/national/heinz-factorys-ps140m-sauce-deal-scrapped-3597898
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/uk-kraft-heinz-accused-of-betraying-workers-after-pulling-140-million-of-investment-from-wigan-factory-blaming-workers-who-rejected-package-of-conditions-measures/
Not so far anyway, though they'd done already done some preparatory electrical spade work.
Though it did NOT apply to me/other engineering workers, there was an implication of a pay reduction for the shop floor workers, something to do with a lower pay scale that was never used but would have been if the new Ts & Cs were implemented.
Sauce would have operated as a completely separate entity elsewhere on the site.
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What have the unions ever done for us? (https://www.jd4mayor.com/blog/what-have-the-unions-ever-done-for-us/)
Apart from ....
For a start, unions stopped child labour. Unionised workplaces are safer, with 50% fewer accidents. Every year unions train 10,000 safety reps. Union members earn, on average, 12.5 per cent more than non-members. They have better job security, and stay in their jobs for an average of five years longer than non-members. Unionised workplaces have higher productivity and fewer industrial tribunals.
Apart from that, though, trade unions have only gained us paid holidays, maternity and paternity leave, paid sick leave, equal pay legislation, pensions, and workplace anti-discrimination laws. Oh, and the weekend. It was unions that fought for a five day working week.
And, of course, furlough was a result of unions negotiating with the government. We’ve all benefited by keeping the economy afloat.
I think its fair to say that the union that covers my role is spineless and pointless. They think an average of around 2.5% pay rise is a good outcome. They thought that all that offshoring was a grand plan. All those redundancies were epic. And the current new office locations requiring many to quadruple their daily commute is a superb idea.
Somehow, I don't think I'm seeing any value to my quite expensive subs, but they do enjoy a lot of jollys at my expense, so thats all OK.
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The last train I was on was a steam train on the East Lancs Railway ..... and it will be the next time I'm on a train.
Train travel is expensive & isn't door to door like a car is.
The last time I got on a train was last November for a day trip to London from Axminster, Devon and the ticket was about £86 for a trip that's about 2 hrs 45 mins each way. :o
Plus £6.50ish for car parking at the station and whatever the Travelcard was when I got to Londinium. About £12.50 I think? :-\
Shame as I like getting on the choo choo! :) ;D
Sounds cheap, Tig.
A return to London from Bicester (travelcard, so includes the tube) is £80, plus £9.50 parking. Plus a 30 mile round trip to get to Bicester.
Maybe. I still live in the 1990's when it cost about £25! :)
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What have the unions ever done for us? (https://www.jd4mayor.com/blog/what-have-the-unions-ever-done-for-us/)
Apart from ....
For a start, unions stopped child labour. Unionised workplaces are safer, with 50% fewer accidents. Every year unions train 10,000 safety reps. Union members earn, on average, 12.5 per cent more than non-members. They have better job security, and stay in their jobs for an average of five years longer than non-members. Unionised workplaces have higher productivity and fewer industrial tribunals.
Apart from that, though, trade unions have only gained us paid holidays, maternity and paternity leave, paid sick leave, equal pay legislation, pensions, and workplace anti-discrimination laws. Oh, and the weekend. It was unions that fought for a five day working week.
And, of course, furlough was a result of unions negotiating with the government. We’ve all benefited by keeping the economy afloat.
I agree with this.....and there was certainly a need for the Labour party and the unions many years ago because the working man was regularly shit upon from a great height.
However, time has moved on and the unions of today are politically motivated.....the priority to bring down the democratically elected government of the day (usually Tory)
I would say that the Labour party of today has very little interest in the white working class. They are seen as an embarrassment. Minority groups are all the Labour party is interested in. They will certainly get 100% of the gay/trans/lesbian/ black vote.....but will it be enough for Starmer to get the keys to No10?
Not a fan of Boris and his Tory government either. With an overall majority of 80 he should have done far better.
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I agree with most of that. :y
Considering his majority Boris should be half way through a new version of the Thatcher revolution by now.
It is said that he cant handle confrontation, and answers a lot of questions for me.
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I agree with most of that. :y
Considering his majority Boris should be half way through a new version of the Thatcher revolution by now.
It is said that he cant handle confrontation, and answers a lot of questions for me.
He likes to be liked too much.
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Without furlough schemes the world would not have stopped.
As for all the positives suggested, that may have been true and valid earlier in the last century. But now? Nah.
Case in point, when I started my current post, we were given two 45 minute breaks. This overwhelmed the rest room, so they dropped it to two forty minute breaks.
You'd have thought that the world had ended the way people were carrying on.
In reality, we still get FOUR times the legal break allowance.
The unions may have established the concept of a legal minimum, but beyond that they serve no purpose.
Look how helpful they were to the agency employees at P&O Ferries.
Without the union involvement they probably would have been employed directly decades ago :-X
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Without furlough schemes the world would not have stopped.
As for all the positives suggested, that may have been true and valid earlier in the last century. But now? Nah.
Case in point, when I started my current post, we were given two 45 minute breaks. This overwhelmed the rest room, so they dropped it to two forty minute breaks.
You'd have thought that the world had ended the way people were carrying on.
In reality, we still get FOUR times the legal break allowance.
The unions may have established the concept of a legal minimum, but beyond that they serve no purpose.
Look how helpful they were to the agency employees at P&O Ferries.
Without the union involvement they probably would have been employed directly decades ago :-X
so you think employers would still play ball without unions keeping them in check?
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Thankfully neither of us has ever had to reply on any form of public transport during our working lives, personally I couldn't think of anything worse than travelling by train day in day out.
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Thankfully neither of us has ever had to reply on any form of public transport during our working lives, personally I couldn't think of anything worse than travelling by train day in day out.
I doubt it'd be worth me going to bed if I'd to travel 25 miles by bus/etc & get work by 0600hrs.
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Without furlough schemes the world would not have stopped.
As for all the positives suggested, that may have been true and valid earlier in the last century. But now? Nah.
Case in point, when I started my current post, we were given two 45 minute breaks. This overwhelmed the rest room, so they dropped it to two forty minute breaks.
You'd have thought that the world had ended the way people were carrying on.
In reality, we still get FOUR times the legal break allowance.
The unions may have established the concept of a legal minimum, but beyond that they serve no purpose.
Look how helpful they were to the agency employees at P&O Ferries.
Without the union involvement they probably would have been employed directly decades ago :-X
so you think employers would still play ball without unions keeping them in check?
If they didn't, people would simply work elsewhere ;)
Contrary to the unions and media, companies aren't labour camps.
If you can't get another job then you should perhaps be more grateful for the one you have. You may even appreciate and enjoy it... Makes for a much better way to pass the days.
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so you think employers would still play ball without unions keeping them in check?
My current business is the first place I've worked with any significant level of unionization and honestly, the policies, working conditions etc don't vary in meaningful ways between the a union vs non-union environment.
When I worked at GKN, I know of one entire business in the US that ended up getting shut down and it was 100% down to union involvement and there was nothing the management could do to stop it. About 50 skilled workers lost their jobs overnight, but again, I doubt the unions' cared even one jot.
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If you can't get another job then you should perhaps be more grateful for the one you have. You may even appreciate and enjoy it... Makes for a much better way to pass the days.
I could think of many many ways of spending the days rather than going out to work 3 days a week ..... but at 60 year old I won't be thinking of looking for another job any time soon. They say though that 'engineers' (sorry Mark ::) ) are in very short supply.
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Worked solidly for 51 years , can honestly say retirement is better not being answerable to anyone is worth far more than anyone could offer me.
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Without furlough schemes the world would not have stopped.
As for all the positives suggested, that may have been true and valid earlier in the last century. But now? Nah.
Case in point, when I started my current post, we were given two 45 minute breaks. This overwhelmed the rest room, so they dropped it to two forty minute breaks.
You'd have thought that the world had ended the way people were carrying on.
In reality, we still get FOUR times the legal break allowance.
The unions may have established the concept of a legal minimum, but beyond that they serve no purpose.
Look how helpful they were to the agency employees at P&O Ferries.
Without the union involvement they probably would have been employed directly decades ago :-X
so you think employers would still play ball without unions keeping them in check?
I last worked in a unionised workplace in 1988. At the time I was a 20 something firebrand TGWU shop steward who was going to change the world. ::) ;D
My current employer (where Ive worked for 14 years) has given me a 12% rise within the last 6 months, also have free private healthcare, and I have the choice of an extra 14 days holiday or get an extra 14 days pay at Christmas.
The thing that probably meant most to me though was when I had to be late for a shift once because my wife had ben rushed into hospital just a few hours before.
When I got to work a half hour late, the Managing Director was waiting for me in reception to ask how she was and told me to take time as much time off if as I needed to.
That could be why I was pissed off when I had to take time off sick for the first time when I got Covid a couple of months ago.
Told to stay home for two weeks and got full pay for it.
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Thankfully neither of us has ever had to reply on any form of public transport during our working lives, personally I couldn't think of anything worse than travelling by train day in day out.
In my yoot I lived in Londinium and worked in the City so had to put on a suit every day and get the train or tube in every day. I hated it. ::)
I think it was 1994 when the last major train strikes occurred? I was living in Charlton, SE London and to get to work I walked to Greenwich, through the foot tunnel to North Greenwich (about 3 miles)where I caught the automated driverless DLR train to Tower Gate and then walked to the office (about a mile-ish) which was back across the river near Borough Market. It took at least two hours and as it was a hot and sunny day I wasn't wearing a tie and wandered into the office with my jacket slung over my shoulder.
I passed the HR Manager on my way in feeling rather heroic, and he snapped at me "Smarten yourself up Mr ...... " Effing knob! >:(
I was young and keen. ::) Funny the things you remember though. ;D
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Back to wearing a shirt and tie again, and actually a pleasant change...
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The union leaders also seem unable to accept that companies are allowed to turn a profit. Indeed, they need to turn a profit for future investment.
I said as much Steve in m post #47 ;D ;D
Lack of brain cells, etc.............. ;)
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Worked solidly for 51 years , can honestly say retirement is better not being answerable to anyone is worth far more than anyone could offer me.
I guess having spent most of your working life in the public sector, and during perhaps the golden era, you were in a position to very comfortably retire and have few money worries, and can enjoy it :).
I suspect many of my generation will have to be working a lot longer and be much less well off in retirement :(.
I worry for some of the youngsters now, many who are only putting a pittance into any kind of private pension or other retirement plan, instead having to take out 40yr mortgages and so on. Although many of them seem to be able to have a new car every couple of years (leased?) and the latest iPhone 18 Pro Max Super+
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Back to wearing a shirt and tie again, and actually a pleasant change...
I've never liked a shirt and tie. Can't remember the last time I regularly wore one for work, must be 30yrs ago ;D.
I always kept a couple of spare shirts and ties in the office in case I had to do customer tours around the datacentre, or sales meetings. Other than that, its been polo shirts and trousers for the last 30 years :)
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Used to work in engineering on m/c tools where wearing a tie could have been a safety hazard. Though a lot of older traditional guys always wore them.
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Many moons ago (18-21 years old) I worked in a stone processing plant. The air was a cloud of stone dust as there were no extractors to clear the deadly dust from the building.
Later on the unit became short of space so giant lumps of uncut granite blocked all the fire exits. All us workers had to squeeze sideways through a 2 foot gap in order to get onto the shop floor.
Myself and another lad asked the manager to move the slabs of granite. 'f*uck off Trotsky was. his reply'..... ;D
So, we contacted our union representative to drop him in the shit. :-X
We watched him walk into the glass pod that was the managers office. The manager then pulled out his favourite bottle of scotch and two glasses from his desk.
They spent the next hour laughing and joking and drinking scotch before the union rep left on wobbly legs.
Nothing was ever changed and it was no surprise to learn later that the union rep would turn a blind eye if he was bunged a few quid.
It made me realise we all need to rely on ourselves rather than hope other people have the solution. :y
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I belonged to COHSE when I was in the Ambulance Service they were okay, however the POA in HMPS can only be described as excellent regarding the welfare of staff.
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Back to wearing a shirt and tie again, and actually a pleasant change...
I've never liked a shirt and tie. Can't remember the last time I regularly wore one for work, must be 30yrs ago ;D.
I always kept a couple of spare shirts and ties in the office in case I had to do customer tours around the datacentre, or sales meetings. Other than that, its been polo shirts and trousers for the last 30 years :)
Don't get me wrong, I am a jeans/T Shirt person, but have always had an aversion to wearing shirts with collars and no tie. Just isn't normal. :D
It’s frustrating to see some people's idea of 'smart business dress' to mean a pair of deck shoes, 3/4 length chinos and a polo shirt with the collar up...
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Many moons ago (18-21 years old) I worked in a stone processing plant. The air was a cloud of stone dust as there were no extractors to clear the deadly dust from the building.
Later on the unit became short of space so giant lumps of uncut granite blocked all the fire exits. All us workers had to squeeze sideways through a 2 foot gap in order to get onto the shop floor.
Myself and another lad asked the manager to move the slabs of granite. 'f*uck off Trotsky was. his reply'..... ;D
So, we contacted our union representative to drop him in the shit. :-X
We watched him walk into the glass pod that was the managers office. The manager then pulled out his favourite bottle of scotch and two glasses from his desk.
They spent the next hour laughing and joking and drinking scotch before the union rep left on wobbly legs.
Nothing was ever changed and it was no surprise to learn later that the union rep would turn a blind eye if he was bunged a few quid.
It made me realise we all need to rely on ourselves rather than hope other people have the solution. :y
Many moons ago (18-21 years old) I worked in a stone processing plant. The air was a cloud of stone dust as there were no extractors to clear the deadly dust from the building.
Later on the unit became short of space so giant lumps of uncut granite blocked all the fire exits. All us workers had to squeeze sideways through a 2 foot gap in order to get onto the shop floor.
Myself and another lad asked the manager to move the slabs of granite. 'f*uck off Trotsky was. his reply'..... ;D
So, we contacted our union representative to drop him in the shit. :-X
We watched him walk into the glass pod that was the managers office. The manager then pulled out his favourite bottle of scotch and two glasses from his desk.
They spent the next hour laughing and joking and drinking scotch before the union rep left on wobbly legs.
Nothing was ever changed and it was no surprise to learn later that the union rep would turn a blind eye if he was bunged a few quid.
It made me realise we all need to rely on ourselves rather than hope other people have the solution. :y
Would have been retribution if one of said granite blocks had accidentally found it's way to in front of his office door. :D
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Necking scotch during working hours was pretty common for management back then, as was calling the receptionist sweetie or 'darlin' and giving her pert little arse a friendly squeeze....... ::) ::) >:D
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Worked solidly for 51 years , can honestly say retirement is better not being answerable to anyone is worth far more than anyone could offer me.
I guess having spent most of your working life in the public sector, and during perhaps the golden era, you were in a position to very comfortably retire and have few money worries, and can enjoy it :).
I suspect many of my generation will have to be working a lot longer and be much less well off in retirement :(.
I worry for some of the youngsters now, many who are only putting a pittance into any kind of private pension or other retirement plan, instead having to take out 40yr mortgages and so on. Although many of them seem to be able to have a new car every couple of years (leased?) and the latest iPhone 18 Pro Max Super+
.
Fortunately I took notice of an Uncles advice when I was around 16 to make sure that I always had jobs with a good pension scheme, pretty sensible thing to do at the time & it has worked out well I've got to admit. It's okay for the youngsters to have all the latest gadgets but if they lack financial acumen they're fu**ed.
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You can’t put an old head on young shoulders is so very true.
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You can’t put an old head on young shoulders is so very true.
Nor would you want to. I can't imagine many 20 year olds being happy with a grandad head ;D
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Some would stemo😉
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Necking scotch during working hours was pretty common for management back then, as was calling the receptionist sweetie or 'darlin' and giving her pert little arse a friendly squeeze....... ::) ::) >:D
I had a manager who was a barely functioning alcoholic. He had bottles of Scotch stashed in his office, his car, and who knows where else.
He walked down the yard one day with a face like thunder and shouted "All you lot, up in my office in an hour, and dont be oppsin late".
An hour later we all marched into his office, he looked up from his desk and said "wtf do you lot want ?" ;D ;D
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Unions are just a bunch of greedy entitled leftie c unts.
Now that I will totally agree with you on DG as they certainly are! :y :y
What makes me laugh is how the Union bosses still come out to the press and talk in a really thick way. With their working class accents, they try and sound sophisticated by using “serious” words to try and make themselves appear educated and clever, instead of talking normally in the way they would in any normal situation. Maybe a silly point to bring up, but it is so noticeable as these people have been doing that certainly since the 1970’s, the era that they really belong to! ;D ;D
But it would all be a joke if only it was not a very serious, disruptive and catastrophic situation that is going to cause millions much distress and inconvenience, wasting millions of pounds per day for our economy. All because they believe their higher than average salaries need a 7% boost!
Bastards!! >:( >:(
Are you aware how condescending this sounds, Lizzie?
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Unions are just a bunch of greedy entitled leftie c unts.
Now that I will totally agree with you on DG as they certainly are! :y :y
What makes me laugh is how the Union bosses still come out to the press and talk in a really thick way. With their working class accents, they try and sound sophisticated by using “serious” words to try and make themselves appear educated and clever, instead of talking normally in the way they would in any normal situation. Maybe a silly point to bring up, but it is so noticeable as these people have been doing that certainly since the 1970’s, the era that they really belong to! ;D ;D
But it would all be a joke if only it was not a very serious, disruptive and catastrophic situation that is going to cause millions much distress and inconvenience, wasting millions of pounds per day for our economy. All because they believe their higher than average salaries need a 7% boost!
Bastards!! >:( >:(
Are you aware how condescending this sounds, Lizzie?
Just an observation really as you can say what you like. I just thought if Cameron and Osborne had a conversation at the Bullingdon club it may have sounded much like that... ::) ::)
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I had a boss that drank at least a bottle of scotch a day,
given to mood swings,
someone bumped his car in the carpark and the paint was the same colour as my car,
explained that I didnt have a parking spot so had to park in the street being a lowly 18yr old
he exploded and grabbed me, until I explained if he didnt let go he would be leaving via the full height window.
I got a transfer soon after that.